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View Full Version : Suggestions...not complaints...



racing#s
09-29-2006, 10:26 AM
We all love racing, and all have our share of complaints. But, how about we all list a few things that we'd like to see change, or happen next year to make it easier on us, the racing, and on the officials.

RacinRob
09-29-2006, 11:34 AM
For the Trux to get a Saturday night race next year!

gzenduro12
09-29-2006, 12:34 PM
Wishful thinking............I'd like the Grands to run 2X a month. One Saturday night show and our regular Sunday Enduro show. The fans really enjoyed the Saturday night Grand Enduro race we put on in July.

richardpetey
09-29-2006, 05:00 PM
Completely Tech everybody before the race, so there can be peace on earth after the race, hehe.......................... :applause:
UNCLE PETEY................. :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

racing#s
09-29-2006, 06:54 PM
I think the top ten from the race should start at the back of the field the next race.

RacinRob
09-29-2006, 07:19 PM
Andy, if I'm not mistaken, they use a system similar to that at Mountain.

WEEZER
09-29-2006, 08:45 PM
The track should do something to the guys who deliberately wreck cars like the #53 gold caddy was in the stock 8cyl last Saturday night amongst others, what or how, don't know? Sitting them down would be good, but that's $45 less for the track, never happening.

Hey Mr. Petey, there was rumor of a crate engine rule for the Grands next year or something very close so that should level the playing field some what.

Yes Greg, 2 races a month would be sweet for the Grands next year, but what's going on with the Charger ride you had briefly?

Bobby Pease
09-29-2006, 09:33 PM
How about OUTLAW grands! Meaning.... NO! I mean NO! rules for our Motors!! ONLY stock appearing!!!!!!!!!!!! Let's get nuts! Go build a 600 hp motor and try running it with stock ex. manifolds, and a Q jet...No headers, no holleys, no Hi rise/perf manifolds..... I know you can get some pretty sick motors out there for about $2000... If we have to build a spec motor, It will be $2000+ ...... Stock suspension and stock appearing motors. Anyway, I have to tell you Anthony, as far as crate motors leveling the playing field, don't forget about SEAT time/experience....or outright good driving skills, that plays a ton in our sport.. PLUS, knowledge of car set up.. I don't want to make this a Blunderbust division. See ya all at Cindy's party on the 13th..

Bobby Pease :wave:

N.Y. racing
09-29-2006, 10:28 PM
I'm with you Weezer, I was also a victim of this and sitting them down, giving them a warning then suspensions for any incident after that. I think that would calm down some idiots.

CIN
09-30-2006, 04:39 PM
This is a suggestion forum - NO POINTING FINGERS AT ONE PARTICULAR OFFENDER

1. Stock 8, 6 & 4's - winner of previous race starts last.
(Now be careful of wishing for that too....Billy did that at Mountain and Ray Fitz still won the race) No need for it in the Grands or Trux - they pic at the track for starting positions.

2. I personally like the OUTLAW idea for the Grands, but whatever the track comes up with, I hope that it is not an out and out "crate" motor (we'll know soon) ...would make the division obsolete...since part of what the track is saying is a concern about speeds and safety, then let the Grands add some more safety...Protect the Front and driver...and I do agree with Bobby that SEAT TIME plays a big role in driver's ability to get to the front, (also helps to have big ones :) ) Maybe a weight to motor ratio rule...
I like the idea of running the Grands one Saturday night a month and Sunday....I don't know if anymore than that would be a good idea, because then you're talking more money into the car...ie: tires... And also, make the Grands a points division...would be nice....

3. TRUX, stock 8's, 6's & 4's, a Saturday nite race during the year.

4. Bring back the "Ladies Division".

5. Definitely POLICE the NO ANTIFREEZE rule. Saw cars spilling antifreeze on the track this year. Makes for an iceskating rink.

6. BLACK FLAG those cars that are spewing - smoke and whatever fluid all over the track. Might also help the driver from destroying his car and be able to race again.

7. Might be nice to have an "invitational race" again at the end of the year...winners from each enduro division running against each other in cars provided for by the track or a sponsor...sort of like the IROC races...

Now we can make all the suggestions we want, but remember "Be Careful what you wish for", it might come with concessions that you don't want.

Just my 50 cents....See everyone on Friday the 13th....

CIN

vsmidge68
09-30-2006, 07:22 PM
I like the points for Grands idea. Personally, I feel if we have to buy tires to race, then the track should give something back. A point fund is only fair because we all know the payout isn't.
Also, how about for motors..: TECH, PUFF, AND SEAL. FOR MAKE AND MODEL OF CAR. (which, if they take "STOCK APPEARING" out of the equation....leaves any metric car with JUST a 305.)
(I did the research....the only metric car that came with a 350 was a Monte made in MEXICO---and it's stamped in the side of the block...OLE!)
Valve covers pulled, motors puffed, checked over, teched and then SEALED. Like any other division.
If they impose a weight rule, you might as well run a Blunderbust.
As far as suspension, make that "stock appearing". There isn't a car out there with BONE STOCK SUSPENSION. None of us are stupid, so let's be real.
More black flags for guys that are leaking, blowing up WEEKLY, again..protecting our investment (TIRES).
Black flags for guys that our TOTALLY out to lunch. Inexperience and gaining seat time is one thing. Guys that are out there wrecking the field (I think we all know who I'm talking about) should be put in the infield.
Again...this is supposed to be entry level, so not everyone out there is Mario Andretti, and those that are learning are improving, but some are just out to lunch.
I like this division, and I'm glad we decided to run this year...we had lots of fun. I just hate to see it go down the tubes. :help: :(

See yas next time! :wave:

Donny Oliver #58 (55)

Bobby Pease
10-01-2006, 04:42 PM
Did you look up 1982 Monte Carlos?? Go to any auto parts store and ask for a 1982 Monte anything! They will ask you 5.0 or 5.7 (305 or 350)...SO, do some more research, amigo... HEY, you can put a 1986 body on an '82 frame..?
Bobby P

vsmidge68
10-01-2006, 07:51 PM
Hey..."AMIGO"...any auto part store WILL give you that option......look in any GM production manual..I have them at the shop if youd like to take a look. And if you really think an 82 Monte came with a 350, then you might want to put the 82 body on the 86 frame (not the other way around). Either way, 1978 is when they went to metric chassis. So yes, both 86 AND 82 are metric. Good luck. Wait.....hmmmm....did an 82 also come with a 383? The 82 5.7 your referring to.....I believe was a diesel....and I highly doubt anyone is running that. And if you'd like, I could fill you in on the "VISUAL" differences between a 305 and a 350 (and I'm not talking about the stamped #'s either).

---Donny Oliver # 58 (55) :wave:

Bobby Pease
10-01-2006, 08:21 PM
HHHHHmmmmmm.... I sense a bit of sensitiveness here... Please dont go furthur here on the jam... Lets wait till we are in person... I only build a car to what the rules say.."stock appearing".. thanks...
Bobby Pease :cool:

W. J.
10-01-2006, 09:00 PM
Let's PLEASE get back on subject: "Suggestions...not complaints".

Thank you!

vsmidge68
10-01-2006, 09:10 PM
Ok Folks Show's Over Donny Spoke With Bobby Pease. Thanks For Everything

Bobby Pease
10-01-2006, 09:17 PM
Suggestion.....
Stop with the emails.....spoke to Donny...all is cool!

How about No motor rule! Just stock appearing! Its going to cost $2000+ to build a spec motor.... might as well build what you want! If you dont want a weight disadvantage...BUILD a Metric car!

BOBBY Pease :wave:

RacinRob
10-01-2006, 09:26 PM
crate motors would ruin this division. although it is the grands....it still should be an AFFORDABLE form of racing. I like the outlaw suggestion

pitbull113
10-01-2006, 09:44 PM
All enduro divisions should be able to move the battery anywhere under the hood or in the pas. compartment.As far as the grands are concerned crate motors will kill the division but so would the outlaw idea. Most guys don't want to spend 2 or 3K for an engine for an enduro car just to be competitive. Keep it simple and keep it affordable it's still an enduro. Stock appearing with a 16 or 17 inch vacuum rule.

RacinRob
10-01-2006, 10:32 PM
If people don't want to spend the money, that's why there is a STOCK 8 cyl division. What also people don't take into consideration is the time people put into their cars. I'm not knocking anybody because lord knows we all have lives outside of racing, but the people who spend the time and money usually do the best in the Grands. Not to single anybody out, but there are 4 cars that are stand out and then there's the rest of the field. I drive in the trucks and it's the same deal. About 4-6 dominant trucks, then the field. I put in the time and money; now I need the seat time. Until then, I'm just one of the "field". I think all these complaints are killing the Grands and if people don't like it, race a 4cyl or a regular stock 8 cyl.

Rob Bader 55 Trux

vsmidge68
10-02-2006, 08:41 AM
Ok getting back to suggestions....I agree with Cin.....more races, ladies grand enduro races and points for all the Grands.

W. J.
10-02-2006, 11:44 AM
As to the idea of opening up rules, one of the reasons there are restrictions is to keep the cost down, and thus, keep it affordable. Suggesting that people who don't want to spend money go to another class ignores the fact that not everyone can afford what others can. The Grands should not be turned into a division of 'haves' and 'have nots', as it will diminsih the car counts and eventually hurt the division. Believe me, I've seen this happen over the years in EVERY division of just about any type. Ask someone who's been racing Blunderbusts a few years about it, and they will tell you about the good old days when you could throw a car together for under $3000. Now, a good engine costs more than that, and it has little to do with inflation.

Bobby Pease
10-02-2006, 01:01 PM
Then what do you think the Term "GRANDS" should mean? More than just Hoosiers, and Permanent numbers... Grands is a great division, Ive heard people say its the Or one of the most enjoyable races at the head..

310fig8
10-02-2006, 02:12 PM
I agree with Walter. When I started driving in the Figure 8 division in 1974 there was 70 - 75 cars a week in the pits trying to qualify for only 24 spots in the feature. I purchased my car from Fred Dunlop Sr. for $425. I won 2 qualifying races with it that year so it wasn't a slouch. As time went on they gave the Figure 8 cars more and more. The more we got, the lower the car counts were because of the expenses. Now an average field of cars in the Figure 8's is 14. That's a sin. It's not what it was supposed to be.
The Enduros are heading in the same direction. They are an entry level division where someone that wants to race, and can't afford a Saturday night division, can still do so. The Grands broke off into a separate division of Enduro for those that want to throw a few extra bucks into their car. The division seems to want more and more each year. Soon they will become Blunderbusts. My suggestion to the Enduros is to keep them as Simple, Stock and SAFE as possible, before it gets out of hand as did the Figure 8s. I think the Enduros are a very exciting form of racing and I loved driving them for a few years. I hope they survive for a long time.
This is just my opinion. Bill Stockert

richardpetey
10-02-2006, 02:40 PM
How about the "Uncle Petey" rule?.......................... :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:
If you don't like the car I beat you with this race, we'll trade cars and I'll beat you with your car next race............................ :lol:
By the way, FYI, nobody has been held up in tech more than me over the 350ci/metric frame question...................... :eek:
It is a generally accepted rule, allowing 350ci motors in metric frame cars, at most short tracks in the U.S. and thats the gospel according to Uncle Petey..................... :rolleyes:
All models, 1978 to 1986 mid-size metric frame GM cars all came with the L motor(350ci, 8th digit in the vehicle VIN) at one time/year or the other............... :cool:
My suggestion would be to lose the hoosiers and go to a engine vacuum rule, with standardized rules we could run at any track any time and still have FUN............................................... .. :applause:
UNCLE PETEY........................... :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

W. J.
10-02-2006, 06:53 PM
Bobby and all others with the same question: I simply mean that there needs to be some restriction on rules changes, especially when someone wants to add a performance changing rule. As 310fig8 said, too much will diminish the car count, and you don't want that.
I cover these races for LI Jam, and I thoroughly enjoy them. I'd rather see a safety rule change that costs money, than adding more expensive engines, carbs, tires, etc. Innovation from used parts or fabricating your own piece of equipment used to be the heart of ALL stock car racing. What put it where it is today is mostly manufactured ($$$) speed options, and gives us one of the reasons we see the kind of car counts we currently have in the Saturday night divisions. Are there other reasons? Sure, but cost is a big one, and if you add costs to owning (and building) Grands or other types of enduro vehicles, it is only going to hurt enduros in the long run. I know you guys and girls really don't want that.

CIN
10-03-2006, 10:09 AM
Ok need to put in my 50 cents on the Grands...
This division was originally started by asking and working with the track for the guys that wanted to stay with an enduro type car, but wanted to put more time, innovation, and money into their cars to race. Guys that didn't want to just gut and go; guys that wanted to do more research and work; guys that wanted to race from the checker flag and not wait till 50 laps were put in the books. It was also to have a division for guys that couldn't or didn't want to race every Saturday night because of one reason or another.

First year was run on regular tires just like the stocks. Some guys did their research and raced the best tires that they could. Some guys complained. Next year the track decided to run the Grands on Hoosiers. Supposedly to keep a level playing field for tires. From what I remember, no one asked for Hoosiers. Most asked for a tire rule. The track decided what they would run on. Was supposed to be the take off's from the Blunderbust. But everyone went out and bought new tires.

And the speeds increased.

Now, we have a "stock appearing rule". And some guys complained to the track that certain people have certain things. And the Track has decided to change things. To keep a level playing field, to slow the cars down.

We can all sit here and speculate on what the track management will come up with. But, until they come out with the rules, we will not know. What I will say is this...hopefully, they come up with what is best for the division. But, just remember, there will always be, in EVERY CLASS, no matter whether you run enduros or a Saturday night division, those that will research and work on their cars more than others. And yes, those that will spend some extra money. It's just the nature of the beast. Do you turn around and make it cookie cutter racing? Nothing & no one ever evolves from that. But, we can keep this division exactly what it was meant to be. There are divisions for everyone.
Some will move up. Some will stay where they are. For whatever reason. And maybe some should go down a level.

To me, from going and looking at other tracks around the country, Riverhead has a division for just about everyone.

Let's wait and see....and let's get back to the original reason for this post...
suggestions....

CIN

richardpetey
10-03-2006, 03:15 PM
No matter what rules are changed, its a good bet that the same group of drivers will still run up front......................... :rolleyes:
Like Cindy sez: If you don't put out much effort and your running for fun, don't get mad at the drivers that do their homework and take the Grands seriously......................... :help:
Personally, I like all the peeps in the Grands, I probably would come up and run with ya even if THEY said we had to run on square hoosiers, hehe.............. :eek:
UNCLE PETEY.................. :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

WEEZER
10-03-2006, 08:05 PM
Cin, you summed it up exactly, guys who want to race a little more professional than stock 8's, but not every Saturday night. With an outlaw rule, it would hurt the less funded teams. In my own opinion ONLY, I'd rather see costs cut (except on safety) and drivers getting better doing their homework and seat time. The grands have evolved ten fold from two years ago. I remember at a drivers meeting 2yrs ago Bill D. yelling at us that "we" wanted this division, so he'd like to see some guys put a little paint on their cars to look a little nicer, and check it out know, (thanks to guys like the 59 and 12, amongst others). I think it's evolving too fast.
Like the Peaseman said, the grands put on a nice show, and this type of division probably will be the most popular in the future, due to financial costs and what not. Look at Wall Stadium's factory stock division, only 2yrs old and they get 25/30 cars EVERY sat nite.
But getting back to suggestions, I suggest the track come out soon with the new rules so I can get started on the car!
And hey Mr. Petey, what's a square hoosier???? One that's not cool??

Bobby Pease
10-03-2006, 11:38 PM
First of all, thanks Uncle Petey for the 350/metric car info...

SECOND, what happens if we do all have the same motor next year, BUT, say, 3 drivers keep buying new tires and winning....THEN what, no more new tires? You all know, new tires are quick, old hard tires are slick.. I have to say, I was lucky enough to have a sponsor buy me a tire per race, and that helped a ton! Now, add seat time, experience, smarts...oh boy....

THIRD! Anthony, you are a great example of a driver, doing homework, asking questions and getting better every race! Keep up the good work!!!

See yaz at Constant....
BOBBY PEASE :wave:

good2go1963
10-04-2006, 10:44 AM
One of the things I noticed a few times were the words "entry level" mentioned and I think that's part of the problem, too. Many of the guys in the Grands are not entry level guys looking to break into racing, they are, as we already said, guys who don't want to race every Saturday night, but want a little more than the stock 8's. Well, since the past few years the stock 8 count has gone down dramatically, why not one of you guys who want to run a "Grand", but don't have the experience in the seat,s or the finance to feel you are competitve with some of the Grands, who have been out there the last few years, approach the track about combining the two 8 cylinder races to one and creating a new division similar to the Grands, but more of a "Novice Grand" division, with not as much cost? The Grands were created because Rich took the time to work with the track to get the message across that some of the guys really wanted this division, and I think rather then scaling it down, why not create another new division which may bring the same kind of fan support as the Grands have? If you all get together and discuss what the true entry level guys would like as far as finance and safety equipment, Hoosiers, no Hoosiers, and propose it to the track, then Maybe that would be a true entry level division working their way towards the Grands.
As a side note, right before I moved South, I sold an '86 Monte with a 350. The 350HO was an option. Only had one owner before us and the VIN#s matched, so I'm pretty sure that was the engine that came in the car when it was ordered new. :wave: :wave:

nobandwagonhere
10-04-2006, 01:57 PM
This is getting kind of funny :p ... Let's clear this up. There were rumors of Riverhead taking the "APPEARING" out of stock appearing. I was basically saying, like what has been said already, "Be careful what you wish for". The 350 in a metric car was always a touchy subject. I ran a 1978 Malibu with a 350 at Mountain a year and a half ago, one of the first times I ran there, and was told flat out "there should not be any metric cars on that track with a 350". So I decided to look for the "GREY AREA", like any racer would. I searched high and low through manuals, All-Data (which we all know is the pits), Auto part stores and got conflicting answers. Even went as far as dressing a 350 up LIKE a 305 (those who know...know what I'm talking about). Maybe I don't have the right books....but the only one I came up with on paper was a Mexican Monte, believe it or not. Have I seen a 350 in a metric car? Millions of times. But I wanted proof that it came from the factory with one so I had a leg to stand on. I even went as far as printing out an order sheet from Auto zone giving me a 350 as an option and brought it to the track to have an argument to back me. So don't take what I said earlier out of context. The key role in racing is "THE GREY AREA"...that will make you or break you in my opinion. You need to find it and work it to death in order to run well.
Personally, I hope they keep the stock appearing rule. I don't agree with the whole crate motor thing. I think that's crazy in more ways than one. Bring back the old NOVICE or BOMBER divisions. That's where homework, and like Bobby said earlier, EXPERIENCE kicks in. Then you'll see some good racing. I was not in ANY WAY knocking the guys that run up front. I love running against cars that I can't catch. It gives me the drive to WORK ON CATCHING THEM. That's what makes it fun. I don't care if it takes all year or 10 years....I will eventually catch them. Then you feel like you did something. I used to love running against Rich Johnson for that very reason. That's why to this day I love running against Uncle Petey, John Cozza, Ray Fitzgerald, Bobby Pease (just to name a FEW)..... because if you can get by them, or even just run WITH them, you feel like you did something. I don't mean banging, and mirror driving,....I mean racing. Bumper to bumper, door to door RUNNING.
Maybe I was wrong about the 350 thing...so be it. But that's ok...that's just that much more drive I have for next year. See yas then. :wave:

good2go1963
10-04-2006, 02:34 PM
It's amazing to me that I wrote a book on the last post as a suggestion and the only thing that stood out was what I said about an option on my old Monte... :lol: Anyway, I wasn't pointing a finger at anyone being wrong in an earlier post, I thought it was important to say because a "novice" or non-mechanical young racer could read this and that may be the only thing that sticks in his mind, oh gee I can't use that engine in that car..that kind of thing. Anyway, How about a "grand bomber" division, where a guy/girl can spend a little more time and effort on his car and get his feet wet in something other than the stock 8, say. This would give he or she the feeling of working hard on getting your race car ready, and learning how to handle it, and then the hopes of moving up to a grand or a regular Saturday division car. I know an earlier post suggested black flagging inexperienced cars that are out to lunch. I can't say that I agree with that because there have been plenty of brand new Charger, LM Mod and lord knows SPT guys that have had a hard time getting their feet wet and the equipment being torn up there is much more costly then in the enduros. Of course if they are endangering the field as in any division they should be Black flagged but not because they are learning. That's why maybe a "Grand Bomber" division would be a great place for them to start. Also the "Crash Cars" down south have an official in a car on the track with them, instead of just getting say a black flag he races up behind you with his siren on and pulls you over. He's the "enforcer" I've seen him pull over guys that have been blatantly dirty as well as guys that are spewing liquid all over. Maybe that's a thought too. Here it makes for great fan excitment that could be a selling point for the track to get people back in the stands. :wave: :wave:

vsmidge68
10-04-2006, 07:05 PM
Please correct me if I am mistaken, but I think the Grands are the perfect division for several reasons: #1. There are some drivers who don't want to be in regular enduros for obvious reasons. #2. There are drivers who like the Grands because they can really race, but not have to lose their house trying to compete. (For example, Bobby Pease said earlier that he had a sponsor who bought 1 tire per race and he was lucky to have that.) #3. There are drivers who like to be football coaches, baseball coaches, take the family away, or just be able to spend time with their families. I know when my husband raced weekly, there was no time for family vacations unless they went from Sunday to Friday, and even then, if the car needed work, forget about it. I think this IS the division for guys/gals who will then maybe move up to Sat. Night weekly divisions. (Remember when the Blunderbusts were the entry level division?) This is also the division for "older" drivers to still be in racing without ALL that goes into weekly racing.
The idea of the black flag is to get a car off the track that is a danger to himself and/or others on the track..ie. leaking, off the wall smoking, driving out of control. Believe it or not, there are drivers who aren't experienced enough to know that they are out of control. In the 4 or stock 8 cyl. enduros, I don't think you can expect to see the black flag as often as you would in the Grands. Also, I think maybe the flag to be thrown is the MOVE OVER flag. That might be better than black flagging someone who isn't experienced. Basically, then you won't hurt anyone's feelings and the experienced drivers will gain respect for the new guy who does move over, realizing he is just learning. That's where the relationship begins...the experienced guy will probably go over and thank the "newbie" and maybe they'll chat and both walk away with something.......
As far as the new motor rules, it can be bounced back and forth here until the cows come home. I heard Bill D. say at the last drivers meeting that they will be redoing the rules and basically they don't want any suggestions, so I guess we will all just have to wait and see.... as usual, JMO. See ya at the Swap Meet!!

Good Luck to All
Vicki Curtis (herself lol)

good2go1963
10-04-2006, 07:38 PM
I guess I have always thought of the Grands as a division that was created for the more experienced guys who knew how to, and wanted to spend time working on their cars, yet not going out every Saturday night not really for the "newbies?" But again, this is getting away from the original reason for this thread, so I still vote for the "Enforcer Dude", out on the track his car keeps up with the pack when needed, is faster actually then any of the cars out there..LOL so no engine rule for whoever got nominated to that job! And yes, he does pull behind any car who doesn't yield right of way to the leaders coming around, puts his siren on and "pulls them over" off of the track.
Plus, like I said, it's a fan favorite down here, so it could be something the track could use to advertise and bring back those fans. :applause:

W. J.
10-04-2006, 07:52 PM
I've got to say, following this whole thread as I always do, that before any more comments are made, please THOROUGHLY read and understand what Vicki Curtis (vsmidge68) had to say in her last post, as I think she sums it all up nicely. :) :)
I also agree with goodtogo1963's post after that one. Improvements can come without rule changes, sometimes the drivers just have to police themselves. :)

richardpetey
10-04-2006, 08:16 PM
If you wanna go on vacation for a week with your family, just drop off that car and we'll have'r ready for ya............................. :D
See you can take some time off and still go racing, hehe.................. :rolleyes:
UNCLE PETEY........................ :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

vsmidge68
10-05-2006, 08:39 AM
Thank You W.J That was very nice of you to say. :wave:
Ok Petey, here's the deal: You & ME on a Carnival cruise ship to the Bahamas for 2 weeks. Let them work on the cars!!! :) :wave: :cheers:

art11758
10-05-2006, 11:55 AM
Sorry to chime in so late on all of this. I have watched over the years enduro racing evolve. When it started it was well, pretty wild. A big payout for a bit of work and a lot of luck. I spent much time doing all sorts of stuff trying to get better. Hours sorting thru tires at Tire Traders and NY tire recycling looking for the "good ones" and the like.
Fast forward to today. Some clever guys in each of the enduro classes "have figured it out". Donny touched on it, that catching those guys is inspiring. Vicki put it best that as far as rules go, "they" aren't asking (surprise!) for any input. Cross your fingers that it goes "our way" meaning no major changes equipment wise. I hope that in the drivers meetings they explain if or when they use different flags, where you are supposed to go (not everyone knows), so that things work out smoothly for everyone. It is just safer that way.
I guess that's really the only suggestion I can make for now.

CIN
10-05-2006, 12:23 PM
Well, we all will not have long to wait to see WHAT the TRACK has to say. According to Eye on Riverhead the Swap Meet is on Sunday November 12th with Enduro meeting at 2pm - rain or shine.

pitbull113
10-05-2006, 01:57 PM
Well, we all will not have long to wait to see WHAT the TRACK has to say. According to Eye on Riverhead the Swap Meet is on Sunday November 12th with Enduro meeting at 2pm - rain or shine. And then the *****ing and crying will really begin. :mad: :*-( :D

vsmidge68
10-06-2006, 11:25 AM
In all fairness, you can't please everyone all the time!!

art11758
10-06-2006, 12:50 PM
And then the *****ing and crying will really begin. :mad: :*-( :D
Well I suppose you could look at it that way. Everyone is on the same page when the rules are fresh. Then the process begins again. Like the debate a few posts back regarding what engines came with which when, someone will always find the advantage. When big blocks were the order of the day, I and countless others searched for the "package". For me it was an LTD with a 460.
What I am getting at is every change is a challenge, if you choose to look at it that way. Stock car racing has always been that way. It is when ya forget about that word (stock) that things get away. 310fig8 was trying to make that point a few posts back and I agree. Like I said, it will be the same for everyone, so it will make for a busy winter. Or not. :D

Short & Simple
10-07-2006, 11:03 AM
I too am a little late getting here, but I saw what Bill Stockert said about the large car counts of the figure eights in the 70's. My ex-husband drove a figure eight in the 70's and it was very inexpensive. Then the rules got out of hand. Motors, tires and things I didn't even know what they were.
SAFER started asking for new things. The cost went up. The payoff back then stayed the same. Some guys couldn't afford the cost and left, NEVER to return. Others felt a Saturday night hobby was just too costly and they too left, NEVER to return. This past season the figure eights had their so-called Championship race and only 14 or 15 cars showed for $1,100 to win. That is sad.
Let's face it, the track could care less what it cost you to race. They are business people looking to make money off of the competitor.As CIN said, be carefull what you wish for, because we all have been there and done that, yet we never learn.

Hobo
10-08-2006, 10:08 PM
Goodtogo, thanks for all of your thoughts and input, but I think talking about making a Grand Bomber division is not going to fix anything. Basically that is what the Grands are. In every enduro division, there are only a certain number of cars that are real competitive. That is due to several factors. Time spent working on the car, time spent learning, seat time and money helps. You may not need new tires every race, but you know, what if you have the money or sponsor to put new rubber on every race? Then you will do a little bit better than the guy who doesn't. Rules won't change that. In the stock 8 where we run, it is the same story as every other division. If I wanted to do more work and spend more money, then I would build a Grand and do whatever was necessary to compete. It is up to the drivers of the cars to either do their work to be in the Grands, or move down to the stock 8's and deal with more cars and contact.

don38
10-24-2006, 09:28 AM
Dont know if it means anything now, but i had owned a 1980 olds cutlass supreme witch has a metric chassis, came stock with a 350 vin code R. That was a fun car.

pitbull113
10-24-2006, 12:39 PM
Thanks Don, but the argument about the 350 motor in a metric chassis was a moot one. The rules for the grand enduro state that engine is to be stock appearing for make and model of the car and must be on original motor mounts and states nothing about year. So the way I interpret the rule is if you have a Monte Carlo any engine that came in any Monte is legal as long as it's on original mounts. Unfortunately, people don't read the rules word for word, and then wonder why they get DQ'd for something stupid.

racing#s
10-24-2006, 06:44 PM
I believe the early 70's big body Montes came with big blocks,stock. I bet that car would be a monster, anyone ever run one ?

W. J.
10-24-2006, 08:27 PM
My '73 Monte came with a 350/4bbl small block. Optional was up to 454 cu. in. :) Nice car, too bad it was stolen and stripped. :mad:

richardpetey
10-24-2006, 09:04 PM
Some mid-sized GM cars(73-77) also came with a 400 small block, which is lighter than a big block and makes way more power than a 350............... :applause:
That was the hot ticket until the metric(lighter) cars came along.................... :eek:
UNCLE PETEY................. :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

art11758
10-25-2006, 12:51 PM
I believe the early 70's big body Montes came with big blocks,stock. I bet that car would be a monster, anyone ever run one ?
Yep, Scott Maliszewski had one. I'm sure there were others, his I remember though.

CJ MOTORSPORTS
11-20-2006, 08:57 AM
How About Getting The Grand`s And Neets Cars Similar ? Promotors Get The Date`s Adjusted And You Can Have Some Good Racers Having Fun. Being Able To Change Tires And Maybe A Intake To Go Race At Another Track Could Benefit All ! As Far As Grand`s Go - Just About All Tracks Across The Country That Have A Spec Tire Rule Also Have Engine , Suspension , Weight Type Rules , So It Should Be The Same For The Grand`s. How Come Equal Has Not Been Covered When It Comes To Wheelbase, Left & Total Wieghts ? Look At Blunderbust When The Caprice First Showed Up , Now The Blunderbust Is More Equal Due To Wieght , Engine , Ect.. Basicly Trying To Say That Making Cars More Equal "and" Similar To Other Tracks Could Bring More To All, Not To Hard To Do If It Gets On The Right Plate !! Rich Was The Best At Doing This , He Had "the Talent" For Talking At Every Track He Raced, Is There Someone Who Can Do This And Help Out ? Yelling And Stuff Will Not Get It Done. Tall Order To Fill And Yes I Do Know, I Go Back With Rich Over 15 Years.cindy If You Read This Maybe You Know A Person Who Could Help. Rich Always Wanted More Racers To Race With And He Believed That Getting More People On The Same Page Could Do This, Trying To Get On Same Page With Cars,tracks , Track Promoters And Maybe It Could Be Better. I Am Building A Metric For My Son To Race In Neets,he Is Only 15 And Not Old Enough For Riverhead ,i Would Like My Wife To Race It In Grand`s, If I Could Have A Car Compatable For Multi-tracks That Needs Minor Changes To Race That Would Be Awsome!! There Is One More Car For Both Tracks ! I Am Not The Only One !! I Don`t Have All The Answers - No One Does ! Just Hoping This Might Help!!!!

RGeeProductions
11-20-2006, 09:16 AM
Ok, I gotta input here my thoughts.
Everyone seems to want a fun class to run. Eveyone started complaining about the rules. Now seems everyone wants to add MORE rules. This is the problem. You want to become a divisional class. The divisonal class at Riverhead is Blunderbust. All of you are evolving into what you didn't want to be at the inception of the Grand Enduro's. Do you see where I am going here? Every year, more and more rules will be added/amended till it gets to a point when to race Grands, it will cost mega $$$$$$$$$$$$. I was under the presumption that no one wanted an expensive $$$$$ class but an affordable class that the same car could be used over and over. The NEETS/Grand similair rule sounds kewl but think out what you are doing here for the Grands future.
JMO

CIN
11-20-2006, 11:26 AM
Ok, to answer Scott...Unless NEETS changes their rules for next year...your Grand car will be legal for NEETS...you would/might want to change the gear ratio between tracks though.
There is no more yelling. The rules will be out in black and white in a couple of weeks. It is what it is.
I am trying to work with the track for other things for the division. Possibly points. But that is still just being knocked around.
Everyone has a choice. I've said this before...there is a division for everyone at Riverhead...including those that like to roll cars over, demolish cars or if you have the money and talent run a modified. Those that don't want to do what they have to do for the changes in the Grands can run Stock 8's. No one is holding a gun to your head. Also if you don't like Riverhead, there are other tracks in other states. It's all up to YOU what YOU want to do. We have a few weeks of waiting, once the rules come out everyone can make their own decision.
CIN