Single File Restarts

[Tower Man]

Chief Steward Jim Maggio was right on the money going to a single file restart so early in the race. It took over 20 minutes to run 6 laps. I don't usually sit in the pit grand stands, but last night I did to watch the races with my daughter's sponsor. Some folks sitting around me were yelling as if Maggio intentionally went single file because JR was in the lead. No sir!

The race was a wreck fest. Maybe the black flag needs to be displayed a little more often. For the most part, there is no respect amongst fellow competitors. It's crash, bang, boom, see ya!

How many more cars are going to be destroyed? Aren't the car counts low enough? If it weren't for the Tour cars, there would not have been a full field, AGAIN.

Jim...keep it up and stick to your guns.

[nobandwagonhere]

I agree with the single file starts. But I dont agree with JR jumping the restart 3 times in a row and nothing be said. Ive seen Maggio throw the yellow because he didnt "Like the restart" in other divisions and make them do it over. Also, Im not a Wayne Anderson fan, but the 26 right turned him hard going into 1 on a restart and nothing said. Jr left turned the 26 HARD going into 1 on a restart causing cars to drive over each other...and again, nothing said. Dont be scared to THROW that black flag. I honestly think they need a little more consistency. JMO.

[sobe]

the 26 was the cause of just about every caution while he was out there he took out 5 very good cars and should not have been able to start on the front row along with the 03 as far as jumping the restarts the 26 went in turn 3 every time even on start where were the yellow flags then. we now have 2 sets of eyes(chief stewards) watching the the race and they still cant see whats going on!!!!!!!!:mad: :mad:

[Teds Race Tours]

Yes, the 26 was a Jam Car Last Night, But the 2 car jumped that one restart but SOOOOO much it was OBVIOUS the green should have been pulled back for a yellow. It was a good call going single file, but there is no way I can say good job to the chief steward(s) for missing that horribly jumped retart.:mad:

[modified_fan]

Just a thought (and one that another team brought to my attention).....

Would a rule that a car must finish 1st or perhaps 2nd in a heat race during the previous 2 or 3 years.......BEFORE being allowed to start in the front row during the feature........have merit?

If a car can finish up front in a heat, then he/she probably has the driving skills and equipment to justify a chance to hold off good cars. Otherwise our mod features are going to continue being wreck fests as these cars become moving obstacles.

[spabler]

Modified-fan although your idea has merit, handicapping is hard enough as it is keeping track of a guys past two years starts would be a tough thing to do and not too practical.

At the level of driving these guys are at the driver and or owner should have enough sense as to pull there car out of line and elect to start in the rear if they are not up to speed. I think as a last resort, if the above said common sense is lacking than the Chief Stewarts should help them make the right choice as to were to start until they sort out there cars or make a driving style adjustment.

I think these guys made a good call going single file, at the next drivers meeting perhaps we may address the above. To date the meetings have been have been working well in keeping an open and objective line of communication between drivers and officials lets use that forum to resolve this issue.

Paul A Beutler
#21 Modified
Owner/Crew Chief

[Fat Albert]

The best way to keep the slower cars from starting in the front is to line up the feature by how you finish the heat. Win the first heat and start on the pole, win the second heat and start on the outside pole. It would make the heats actually mean something. As it is now the heats are meaningless and boring for the fans. Contrary to popular opinion, I think Gary MacDonald did a pretty good job this week. The jam car was the 03 on the outside pole, he dropped like a rock. And the restarts with the 2 jumping and left turning into the 26 were just ridiculous. He should have been sent to the rear the second time he did it, the third time was the worst start I've ever seen.

[modified_fan]

spabler......
Firstly....Congrats on Chris' race! You've told us his growing confidence and abilities. We're very happy for you and he.

Secondly....IF there is a will, there's a way. If the track wanted to add a twist into handicapping, it can't be all that hard. You should have seen the scoring I had to do for JA a few years back on a much more complicated pick 5 than we have now.

I personally feel that there would be less on track damage, if we could find a way (and please don't say time trials) to keep cars that run 12.5's out of the front rows. The double lane freight train of cars doing 12.1's almost insures a big wreck in the first few laps.

Fat Albert......
That's a very interesting thought. I wonder if the modified community would be interested in having Handicapped Heat Races that in turn produce a starting Feature Race lineup based on heat finish?

[The Bullfather]

I believe if they do heat races, they should mean something without handicapping. If you are going to handicap, only do it for the heats. The features should be based on the finishes in the heat races. We've seen over the years cars being blocked or cut off by slower handicapped cars and then see a dog pile in the rear. Drivers should gain exprience up front, but only in the heat races. When we are playing with a full field and a slower car or two or even three are up front, we always see the dog pile on starts. I wish they would think this over during the off season for the modified class and late models. Chargers, Blunderbust, Figure 8 and Super Pro Trucks aren't as powerful. Most drivers in the Mods and LMs have come from these divisions. But they too need to learn and understand the horsepower different and chasis setups before they start up front. Some cars aren't as strong as others and many cars are going home early. I don't hold this against them, some drivers have more money and some drivers have veteran crews. It's an experience, but other drivers on the track shouldn't have to exprience other's learning curves!

[Tower Man]

It's not only tough to handicap by heat race finishes, but not practical. Many drivers use the heat race as a warm up. Once they know they are in a qualified spot they pretty much protect the spot. Heat races pay nothing and you don't get a trophy either.

Handicapping makes it a race. If all the good cars started up front there really wouldn't be a race. It would be a parade of leaders.

I would think if a driver starts up front and is passed by a bunch of cars in hot laps, then maybe it's not time to start up front. Every driver and every team feels they have the best driver and the best car. Nobody wants to admit, "Maybe we're not ready to sit on the pole".

I hate to go back to another time period, but that's what I did. I watched hot laps and if the front row was blown away in two hot laps, well I moved them to the front of the consi cars. Just a thought. Not telling the two on the hill what to do. Their style is different.

[RACENUT]

I Think Starting The Faster Cars Up Front In The Main Would Make For A Pretty Boring Race Like This Week, We Saw What Happened When The 2 Car Started Up Front, The Race Was Over Right From The Beginning.

[Fat Albert]

It's not only tough to handicap by heat race finishes, but not practical. Many drivers use the heat race as a warm up. Once they know they are in a qualified spot they pretty much protect the spot. Heat races pay nothing and you don't get a trophy either.

Handicapping makes it a race. If all the good cars started up front there really wouldn't be a race. It would be a parade of leaders.

Boy do I disagree with that! Heat race as a warm up? I thought it was a race. It should count for something since there is no money or trophy in it. I think you should earn the right to start on the pole by winning the heat. Starting a car in the front row that went from first to last in the heat is looking for trouble!

[vsmidge68]

Perhaps if the cars didn't sit on the track to bring out the caution there wouldn't be so many restarts. It amazes me how many cars won't start until the yellow comes out. Handicapping is hard enough without adding "heat handicapping". How about less cars qualifying in the heats? Then they could run consis again. Perhaps if they had to work to qualify, the heats would be more interesting as well. JMO

[Teds Race Tours]

Perhaps if the cars didn't sit on the track to bring out the caution, there wouldn't be so many restarts. It amazes me how many cars won't start until the yellow comes out. JMO


I agree. If you are in a one car spin, and wait and bring out the caution, it should be an automatic 1 lap penalty. There should be NO Benefit for bringing out the caution. If you bring out the caution for a flat tire and pit to change the tire, you should have to wait until the next caution to reenter the track. Again, there'd be no benefit for bringing out the caution.

[Tower Man]

It used to be, (did I say that?), a one lap penalty for intentionally bringing out a caution. The rule was, if you spun and the caution came out, you needed to have tow truck assistance or you lost a lap.

Maybe they should count the lap and not go back to the last completed lap. This way, the car that brought out the caution loses a lap anyway.

[spabler]

Tower man "Maybe they should count the lap and not go back to the last completed lap. This way, the car that brought out the caution loses a lap anyway."

I may be wrong, but if you do that, wouldn't that put any cars that didn't cross the finish line (or scoring line) after the caution flag a lap down also? It may cause some longer delays in sorting out the line-up and stress the scoring people out a bit. If so, that is not a very good way to solve the problem. Putting them a lap down sounds much better, and I do think it worked well at the time it was used. Although, if a guy is running in the points, taking a one lap hit may be better than sitting on the infield for 10.

For example: If you go off and come back a only one lap down, and another guy drops out and loses two or more, well then you gained a spot or two or more, and in most cases, you only loose a few spots that you might have had not being penalized a lap in the first place.

Look, if a guy needs to do this, to pull out a caution, and does it in a place that is safe to do so, who cares? Pull up out of the groove into no man's land, and no harm, no foul. Stop in harms way, race another day. Problem solved.

[Teds Race Tours]

Tower man

Maybe they should count the lap and not go back to the last completed lap. This way, the car that brought out the caution loses a lap anyway.


Look, if a guy needs to do this, to pull out a caution and does it in a place that is safe to do so, who cares? Pull up out of the groove into no man's land and no harm, no foul. Stop in harms way, race another day. Problem solved.

I care. That's an annoying thing to do. It brings down the quality of the racing, and frustrates the paying customer. Pull into the infield and wait for a caution. Bring out a caution like that, and you should sit out til the next caution.

[nitros77]

How would you determine what heat gets the pole when you have 3 heats?

[The Bullfather]

Think by draw for the heats, every driver should pull a number to see which heat race they are in. If they draw 1-8 or so that would be heat 1. Winner would get pole, second place would start 4th, depending on how many heats are run and so on...

If they went to this format ..The should let all the drivers be able to work on their cars in the closed area and not at their trailers. This might bring slower car up to pace or even faster. We have a lot of great modifieds out there, any driver could win on any given night. Chris Beulter is starting to look strong and gaining more sponsors. :)

But we know this won't happen. lol But doesn't mean we can't bring up our ideas or opinions.

[spabler]

Thanks Pete,
The point made earlier in this post describes why He is doing well, he respects the other guys on the track with him. When we had ignition problems the first three weeks of the year, he pulled out of the way of the faster cars, and held the same line on the bottom of the track. When Chuck and Dave were faster than him as he was running well on the pole, he gave them the outside and raced them hard, but not up the track. That's the way I taught him how to race as a kid in go-karts, and he still races that way today. If it's your day, it's your day, it is what it is.

Mr. Jitney,
I see your point. As another competitor who may be running well and may be affected by the same evasive move to draw the caution, it get's frustrating on both sides of the fence. But I'm afraid it's the nature of the beast, we don't have any way to pit under green and the guy in the car is a racer. Trust me, if you were on the radio with him and told him to pull off the track, I'm sure all you will hear is the click of the radio shutting off.

[Teds Race Tours]

Thanks Pete,

Mr. Jitney,
I see your point. As another competitor who may be running well and may be affected by the same evasive move to draw the caution, it get's frustrating on both sides of the fence. But I'm afraid it's the nature of the beast. We don't have any way to pit under green and the guy in the car is a racer. Trust me, if you were on the radio with him and told him to pull off the track, I'm sure all you will hear is the click of the radio shutting off.

I know what you are saying, and why they do it, but all things are equal. Bad luck will happen randomly. Somebody will run over debris and cut a tire. If it happens, it's just bad luck. Come back and race next week. You can't control what you can't control, but when driver's take things into their own hands, and bring out cautions intentionally, they start to ruin the quality of racing, and that's not good for the Raceway, especially with new folks who might be on the fence about whether or not to come back.

[trigger22]

Towerman - your correct. Years ago, the chief steward (you) watched the cars in practice, heat and hot laps with the help of your staff. If they couldn't keep it up in any of them, it was the chief stewards decision to put them to the rear of the qualified cars. Not saying Mike and Jim are doing a bad job. They took on a huge responsibility.

Here's a thought for everyone who wants to change the handicapping rules for the better. Talk to your handicapper and let them know your ideas. Believe me, they will listen. Christie does an excellent job. If you approach her to discuss (not argue or tell her the handicapping is wrong), she will listen and figure out a way that is best for everyone.
Keep in mind, it HAS to work for ALL divisions.
She will even go out to some of the drivers/crews to get their ideas.
She and I have done it in the past to make it better and fairer for everyone. (That's when the handicapping by points came into effect).

Christie - Keep up the good work. Hopefully we will see you soon.

Judy Bonsignore
Retired Riverhead Handicapper.

[Fat Albert]

"It's so easy, a Cave Man can do it!"

Here's how the True Value Modified Racing Series does it!

4. Handicapping:

A. The driver's point average will be used to determine line-ups for heats. The average will be determined based on a three week average.

B. Fifty (50) phantom points will be added to a driver's average for each point's race missed.

C. Consi and Feature line-ups will be heads-up from the heat and consi results.

D. Previous Event Winner - The winner of the previous week will be the last car in the field for the heat in front of drivers who were not present for the previous point's race. The feature winner will also start in the rear of the feature.

E. Missed Event - Any driver that has missed a points event will start in the last position of its heat for the first returning event.

F. Twenty-four (24) cars will start the feature, unless notified otherwise. Three (3) heats with six (6) to qualify and a consi with four (4) to qualify.

Voila!

[310fig8]

Is it me or is it "Cave Man" math. 3 heats 6 to Qualify = 18. Consi with 4 to qualify = 22. Just having some fun there. Actually with the correct math, I like that idea.

[catfish]

The last 2 positions are for provisionals

[scottyboy39]

I like the single file restarts after 3 tries. Some guys race as if they have dinner plans on the after the first lap. I agree with faster cars being in the front would lead to follow the leader, but if you spin and wait to get the yellow before you start moving you go a lap down. And what ever became of the black flag? See you all on Saturday.