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DriveitinDeep
07-22-2007, 07:59 AM
That had to be the worst display of racing (if that's what it's called).
I for one am embarrassed that I was a part of the saddest display of entertainment ever at the track. The race should have been flagged after 45 minutes on lap 5.
Why is it that we don't have enough car control to get through a few laps? If your car doesn't handle, don't try to drive it harder. It ain't going to make it better. Go to the back and work on your problem. It's bad enough we don't have the car count, but don't make it worse by wiping out what we have left.
Hey Late Models, (me included) get your **** together now or we will be on the outside of the racetrack looking in when they drop our sorry *** from the
line up.

Oh by the way, Danny doesn't need the extra help to get to the front. He can do it just fine on his own.
Roger Oxee

btgoss
07-22-2007, 08:11 AM
Strong words and feelings, I applaud your having the desire to try to make a change, and a change is needed, you guys sucked last night.

I have to say that the exit of the Late Models as they are now is only a matter of time. The fields have been getting smaller and smaller. When a support division draws less cars then the headliner, something is wrong. The same problem is in the Limited Late Model division, I mean Chargers.

The two classes should have a rules meeting, bring the Late Models down to the Chargers on motors, and maybe let the Chargers have better tires, and have a real division.

BOWATCHER
07-22-2007, 09:26 AM
Was it me or do we need some better tow truck assistance. It would help speed up the very much dragged out show J.M.O.

RGeeProductions
07-22-2007, 10:17 AM
Was it me or do we need some better tow truck assistance. It would help speed up the very much dragged out show J.M.O.
I agree the Late Models did run a bit too hot and heavy AND the track crews also failed in their duties.
Where is Bumper Boy when he is needed!!!!

Jeff T
07-22-2007, 11:00 AM
After talking to several people within the division after last nights debacle, the same general opinions because evident:
1.) It seems as if the same cars are starting up front every week through the handicapping systems.
2.) Those same cars are causing the first caution flag(s) every week.
One opinion that was voiced to me made a lot of sense: If you are starting up front every week and are the cause of the first caution every week, you need to start in the back until you can get your car handling better where you won't be causing these cautions. One person said to give these cars three weeks in the front. If they can't get through the beginning of the race without causing an incident, send them to the back until they get their car working better.

Yes Drive it in Deep, I agree with you. The division is in serious trouble. These next six races better be the best run races of the year if we want a shot on being in next years program. I would say that right now, we are one more bad race away from having our ticket pulled.

Just a for thought: The Riverhead Raceway program lists 29 drivers registered for the Late Model division. Why is it only 13 of them show up each week? Time to get the cars out of mothballs and support the division before there is no division to support.

Jeff T
07-22-2007, 11:08 AM
Just one more thing....I know that the track announcer made a big deal about how the Late Model race took so long and that is why they could not do out of car introductions for the modifieds and that we were the reason why the evening went so late, but in reality, the blame for that belongs to the track crew. Sorry guys, YOU blew it last night. It took 45 minutes to clean up 2 wrecks. The second wreck was only 2 cars and it took , what , 10 minutes to clean it up? I understand the first wreck was a big pile up, but come on....45 minutes?

RGeeProductions
07-22-2007, 11:15 AM
The second wreck was only 2 cars and it took , what , 10 minutes to clean it up? I understand the first wreck was a big pile up, but come on....45 minutes?
The 2 car wreck took much more than 10 minutes. They eventually called Sonny in to cut a bar.

CRog00
07-22-2007, 12:06 PM
Yea and they brag sooo much about the GREAT track crew they have when they can't even get 2 cars unstuck. That's just pathetic.

Teds Race Tours
07-22-2007, 12:44 PM
Lets not get on the track crew too much. They had a bad night, but the LM's have had Many Bad Nights. It was the 1st time I ever saw a 20 car pileup in a 12 car field, as some of the cars crashed twice in the same wreck. Give them off time til August 19th(they prob need a month to rebuild some of them anyways), and tell them the last 3 or 4 races will determine the future of the division. The Modifieds are by far my favorite division, but there have been times when the LM's have been the best racing at Riverhead. That has not been the case in a long while, and last nights race brought the division to a new all time low, which after a few races this year is quite an accomplishment.

The problem as I see it, is that way too many drivers race like its the last race they will ever race. I call it the "I must win this one, and go out a winner"mentality. There is another race next week folks, at least for now there is. If they can't get their act together, schedule a 100 lap late model race on the last day of racing, and tell them its the last night of LM racing ever. I suspect there won't be any late models left on long island after 100 laps of carnage, and the track won't have any reason to schedule them in 2008.

This is the point of view of one race fan. I pay my money each week to watch the Modifieds, and would pay that same money if the Mods were the only division on the card. I have no connection to the division, so I am the person you should be racing for. Impress me, make me a fan. Make the division so good that I have to come just to watch you guys even if the modified had the week off. Right now, you can't even see that goal.

BOWATCHER
07-22-2007, 12:51 PM
This crap doesn't happen at other local tracks. No disrepect to any enduro driver or crew but how much fun is it to sit around a hot parking lot all day and then go race after eleven oclock at night.??? Last night was poorly planned . Nuff said

Fkraft99
07-22-2007, 02:15 PM
That whole race was a joke last night. The same cars start on the front row or 1st and 3rd every week, and at least one of them, but usually both of them, end up taking out a good 3-4 cars. Then you have other people who think they are gonna gain 10 spots in a wreck. The 01 and the 08 were whoa'ed up and almost through the wreck and then someone who was behind both of them comes piling in, launches the 01 into the 08, destroying a rear on the 08, and he didn't stop there; after driving through the 01, he still managed to pile into the wreck. WHERE ARE YOU GOING???? Pretty sure the yellows coming out and we're going back to the last lap anyway. Dunno what the 34 was doin' last night, I think Ken is a good driver, but last night he was outta control, drove into 1 way over his head and turned the 14 and caused himself and 01 the get locked together for a half hour.. I was glad Mike kept going and got his spot back. But then later in the race the 01 running in line on the white line behind the 98 trying to give him some room and the 34 turns the 01. Uncalled for, I think.


Last night's race was terrible and with the same guys up front, next week's race is goin to be just as bad, probably. It's all luck, if you can miss whatever accident those guys cause, you might have a shot at winning. I guess we'll try again next week.


Freddie Kraft

The Bullfather
07-22-2007, 04:14 PM
I really thought Mike Andrews Jr. was going to have a good night in that car too. He looked strong earlier in the night. Can't wait to see J-rod back in that car!;)

racerwife
07-22-2007, 09:59 PM
RGEE Productions... you put in a post about the length of time to clean up a wreck and the welder finally needed to be called to cut a bar and free the stuck cars? I had already left and returned to our trailer in disgust by this time...
However,... does anyone know why the JAWS ( hurst tool) wasn't used to cut the cars loose from each other? The SAFER organization bought as a gift to Islip Speedway & Riverhead Raceway a hurst tool to be kept and used at the track in a situation like this or one that is certainly more serious in nature. I can't remember seeing them used... and lets get real folks... there are more qualified personel in the pits to use this equipment properly and safely (me included) than you can imagine. City firemen, volunteer firemen, rescue P.D., we are all there and well trained and certified in an emergency situation. Granted, it was purchased some years ago, but doesn't require much upkeep or maintenance. There is no reason that it couldn't have been used to cut a "bar". Thats what it is made for!!!
Maybe someone has some idea of where such a piece of equipment has wandered off to? Heaven forbid the night you need to cut someone out of a serious wreck... those golden minutes of time go by very quickly when you have to wait for FD Rescue to arrive and do the extrication that you have been GIVEN equipment to have on hand at the track for this reason... and its gone or missing????
I pray to GOD its not my husband or your family member needing that extra few minutes of time to save their life.
ANYONE KNOW WHERE IT HAS GONE TO ????

bulldozer
07-22-2007, 10:34 PM
Just run time trials for every division like down south and run 50 lap mains every week. You might not see all the passing, but you sure will see some better racing and a lot less wrecks. As far as the car counts, let's do what they do at Hickory; limit the amount of tires you can buy to 2 a week and maybe some other guys will be able to afford it and keep up with the guys who are buying 4 every week. Same in the Charger division too.

RickFigure8
07-22-2007, 10:41 PM
For many years it was on the back of the fire truck, what they called the fire truck.

allhailunc
07-23-2007, 03:44 AM
Hey, hey, now "negativity" will get you nowhere. :lol: Applause to driveitindeep-his words ring true. :applause:

Turbo
07-23-2007, 08:45 AM
I agree with those same guys causing the wrecks (pileups) every week!! Last week I saw a guy come off of turn 4 right down to the bottom groove like no one was there and clip a driver trying to pass low!!! Then this week moves up the track as if no one were even there and cause a pileup into 1? Does he have radios in his car and if not please get 'em? or try to hold a line? It was kinda sickening to see 5 cars run around the track under yellow while they were trying to get those cars unmangled. :help:

j-rod
07-23-2007, 10:40 AM
Everything my boy Phastfreddie said is 100% correct, he covered it all. As far as the car to launch the 01 into the 08, lol, wonder who started 8th? My boy bulldozer is correct also, run time trials every week and the races will run 10x smoother. I think the dp 50 lappers usually run pretty smooth.

racerwife
07-23-2007, 10:45 AM
I just received a telephone call at 10:30am this morning from Bob Finan regarding " Where Is The Hurst Tool?".....
"The hurst tool is on the little red rescue truck every Saturday night, ready for use.", according to Bob who spoke with track personnel this morning. At the moment it is locked away in a secure location.

Thanks Bob for checking on the tool's whereabouts and condition.... hopefully, it will remain on the little red truck and never be needed for its real purpose.

Karen

Teds Race Tours
07-23-2007, 12:24 PM
Eveything my boy Phastfreddie said is 100% correct, he covered it all. As far as the car to launch the 01 into the 08, lol, wonder who started 8th? My boy bulldozer is correct also, run time trials every week and the races will run 10x smoother. I think the dp 50 lappers usually run pretty smooth.

They run TT down south, and have 1 pass for lead each season. No Thanks. Each driver should just learn how to race cleanly. Its been done before, it can be done again.

Ace
07-23-2007, 12:48 PM
MAKE THE HEATS MEAN SOMETHING! Don't bother with heats if you're gonna take 5 out of 6 cars. :mad: If you take less, the slower cars may not make the top 3 or 4, and would then have to start in the back. Do the same thing for all the divisions that don't have much of a car count. This week the Chargers had 2 heats, with the 1st one having 8 cars, and the 2nd having 7 and the top 6 advance. :disgusted

Tower Man
07-23-2007, 03:21 PM
I recall 2 Late Model drivers that were told to park their Late Models until they ran a demo. And Fred, you know who I am talking about.This way maybe they would get the crashing over with. Maybe it's time the Late models all ran a demo. The early laps were disgusting. The problem I see is the same couple of cars start up front every week. They try to win on lap one. Hello guys, leading lap one pays no money and no bonus points.

Then the last car that crashed into the pile up. Come on...you were already half a lap behind. Where were you going? Where was your spotter?

And you wonder where the cars are? Home safe and sound, that's where.

Once the race got going, Danny and Mighty Mike put on a good show for the fans.

And the tow truck crew? I won't even go there.

Changes need to be made.

bulldozer
07-23-2007, 03:55 PM
I know I went to South Boston last year and saw one heck of a race. Lots of passing and a great race. If you want to see one car passes, just watch the modifieds, boring. If Late Models run 50 lappers with time trials, maybe we would see a race of who has the best car, instead of watching the tow trucks pull cars apart everyweek. So tow trucks or race, what would you want to see? There's only 12 cars every week, so why even run heats, lets run time trials. I want to thank the officials for giving us 5 extra laps. Too bad we didn't have a better race. But I'm sure next week will be better. Sometimes things just don't go the way we all want them. It's not the tracks fault or the drivers fault, it's just racing. I'm sure guys aren't trying to wreck each other but things happen. It happens on TV, it happens here at Riverhead. As far as the track crew, they tried there best, but how many times are you going to see cars get hooked and not be able to be pulled apart, not often. I'm sure they will be more prepared next time.

W. J.
07-23-2007, 04:41 PM
One thing that must be said for the track crew. They try to carefully separate the cars and not cause anymore damage to already damaged cars. You may not think they are the best, but they aren't pulling apart insured street cars, they are trying to get race cars that cost someone a lot apart without adding to that cost.

KickItUp
07-25-2007, 03:21 PM
Maybe the BB drivers should start giving lessons to the LM drivers.. Maybe all of you LM drivers should at the very least, talk to the 00 BB.. He can start last, in a much fuller field of much larger and heavier cars, and in 20 laps make it to the front, most times in much less than 20 laps.. There is no carnage in his path in getting there either.. And he has to drive in a pack filled with a bit more than just 2 drivers who have their own issues.. And he isn't the only one in that divison to do so.. Many of them can do it, and do. They sometimes even go 3 and 4 wide without wrecking.
Sure, they have their issues once in a while, but there is far less wreckage, far less crying, and much more racing in that division, of just at, and sometimes more than, a full field of cars..
I am serious.. Talk to the BB drivers.. Maybe they can teach ya'll a thing or 2 about how to get around that racetrack..

bulldozer
07-25-2007, 04:19 PM
Yea because they are tanks that can bounce off each other and the wall and keep going. Plus the horsepower difference is enourmous. Ask the 00 himself, let's see if he can bring his Late Model from the back to the front. Not happening. The 00 Blunderbust is like Chuck Steuer's Charger car back in the day, well ahead of the class. He has a race car, the others have tanks and cars bought for 1000 to 2000 dollars. That's why he goes from the back to the front. But don't get me wrong, he is doing a nice job driving also, but that's with the starter cars, not with Late Models.

SuperShafts
07-25-2007, 04:38 PM
Maybe all of you LM drivers should at the very least, talk to the 00 BB.. He can start last, in a much fuller field of much larger and heavier cars, and in 20 laps make it to the front, most times in much less than 20 laps..

Sounds like a bet




Ask the 00 himself, let's see if he can bring his Late Model from the back to the front. Not happening. The 00 Blunderbust is like Chuck Steuer's Charger car back in the day, well ahead of the class. He has a race car, the others have tanks and cars bought for 1000 to 2000 dollors.

BD is right, kinda out classes the rest

I would be willing to bet $100 on the placing after the race of the 00 in an LM, I would say $100 and below 8th.

Jeff T
07-25-2007, 04:40 PM
Well put, Bulldozer. Many time during the BB feature I see cars spinning and bouncing off each other, many times without a caution. They are 4000 lbs tanks and built to withstand practically anything short of a solid hit with the concrete wall. Late models are much more powerful, more fragile, and definitely more expensive. Compare a $5000 Blunderbust to a $50,000 Late Model, and you will find out why the Blunderbusts can endure the hits week after week, where a Late Model can not. Not to dis the BB drivers, but it is a whole different ball game when you move up to this division. You'd find out that you're not in Kansas anymore. I'm sure Tommy W. found that out in his first two starts this year.

DriveitinDeep
07-25-2007, 04:43 PM
Give me a break! We'll see, won't we?!

The Bullfather
07-25-2007, 05:24 PM
Maybe the BB drivers should start giving lessons to the LM drivers.. Maybe all of you LM drivers should at the very least, talk to the 00 BB.. He can start last, in a much fuller field of much larger and heavier cars, and in 20 laps make it to the front, most times in much less than 20 laps.. There is no carnage in his path in getting there either.. And he has to drive in a pack filled with a bit more than just 2 drivers who have their own issues.. And he isn't the only one in that divison to do so.. Many of them can do it, and do. They sometimes even go 3 and 4 wide without wrecking.
Sure, they have their issues once in a while, but there is far less wreckage, far less crying, and much more racing in that division, of just at, and sometimes more than, a full field of cars..
I am serious.. Talk to the BB drivers.. Maybe they can teach ya'll a thing or 2 about how to get around that racetrack..

Tommy is that you???lol

KickItUp
07-25-2007, 06:31 PM
Well then if ya'll can't handle your $50,000 late models in a field of 12, then maybe it's time to start driving in another division where the cars can handle the lack of talent..

Don't get me wrong, I loved the LM's, but now, can't stand to watch them, or the Chargers for that matter.. It's like being at a circus or something.. I keep looking for hidden camera to tell me this is all a joke..

And how nice of you other "drivers" to comment on another's future before he even gets his act together.. 28 or how ever many wins he has now, is no easy task, in any car, or else everyone would be multiple winners.. He may just well kick all of your butts, who knows.. But to go and trash the guy becuase he doesn't get his wins in a $50,000 LM like the rest of you is sad..

For the record, I DO NOT know nor have I ever met the driver of the 00 BB..

W. J.
07-25-2007, 06:43 PM
I don't think anyone trashed Tommy. He himself would tell you (as he told me) that at this point, the car isn't competitive, and that's one reason he's put it on the back burner until he feels it is. That tells you what kind of racer he is.

RacinRob
07-25-2007, 11:07 PM
Tell me where I can get a Blunderbust for 1000-2000 dollars...I'll take 2!

Tower Man
07-26-2007, 07:06 AM
Yeah really, I'll go with you. A good Blunderbust motor is close to $6,000.

SuperShafts
07-26-2007, 09:16 AM
Well then if ya'll can't handle your $50,000 late models in a field of 12, then maybe it's time to start driving in another division where the cars can handle the lack of talent..

Don't get me wrong, I loved the LM's, but now, can't stand to watch them, or the Chargers for that matter.. It's like being at a circus or something.. I keep looking for hidden camera to tell me this is all a joke..

And how nice of you other "drivers" to comment on another's future before he even gets his act together.. 28 or how ever many wins he has now, is no easy task, in any car, or else everyone would be multiple winners.. He may just well kick all of your butts, who knows.. But to go and trash the guy becuase he doesn't get his wins in a $50,000 LM like the rest of you is sad..

For the record, I DO NOT know nor have I ever met the driver of the 00 BB..

Lol you sound like a lot of people I run into. Now don't get all upset, just understand....

You are making judgments on something you have never tried, it is very easy to sit and watch and think someone or a group is bad at what they do...

Sure there are screw up's and mistakes. I doubt anyone is going out there with the intent of crashing, whether to get by another car or just because they have no idea... Some may need to give a little, but if you think it's that easy try any class...

There are rules in every class so as to keep anyone from having a huge advantage, and that keeps things closer and tighter, it makes passing harder...

IF you think you and someone that have the same stuff, the same HP and you think you are going to just drive around them.....you are sorely mistaken... there is always the case of a better set up and maybe a touch better driver....but what you will find is that your car doesn't like the other line, and now you have become what the other car's speed is, and now you may have had, lets say .2 lap of an advantage, but since now you need to run a different line that .2 turned into the mirror lap time of the car in front...so what do you do...you fight for the same line...and sometimes contact is made...

After sitting behind the same car for a few laps, that scenery gets old, especially if you are on the gas 1st and could be hitting the brakes a little later...So you try to get around and in doing that, you might drive it just a bit too deep to get the preferred line for what it is that your car runs optimally around the track, or you might have to shove a bit or muscle the other car out of the way.. Even that is no easy feat to do gentlemanly like.

You know why this happens.....probably not really technically, because you haven't been in the position to truly, really understand it...
No one wants to lose, they all want to win, they all can't....but they keep trying lap after lap....

Are there some jam cars out there....every field has jam cars, are they just gonna move over...nope, and then if they did park the jam, cars people would complain about a 10 car field....

My advice is to try it, try something, enduro, bb (then you can tell us what it really cost with that dream goal idea of a $2000...that's just the trailer), charger, LM, MOD, SMOD..Spec drag, give something a shot..


How do you feel when you are in the left lane and the guy in front is holding you up....and in the left lane he should get out of your way...that's a rule.. Do you get frustrated a little when you get stuck there?...it's kinda the same thing....

Tower Man
07-26-2007, 10:40 AM
Well put Super...

SuperShafts
07-26-2007, 11:15 AM
Thank you Tower Man....


Another thing I might add is that while you are trying to get around on the high side...the 3rd place car behind you might be sitting pretty, just waiting for a mistake from the car on the inside that is now trying harder to stay up front.....now what do you do....it's like a chess game, a wrong move could cost you 2 or more....


Kinda like you in the left lane KIU, you want by...so you move to the left so they see you in the mirror...then you get closer...if the person up front holding everyone up in the left lane follows the rules...they move over...if not, then you try and get by when you get that chance in the middle lane.....Only to find out that the door was closed, not enough room to make the pass....Now what do you do....well hopefully, fall back in behind them and not lose 6 more spots back because you got burnt because they stiffed you....so now if you get back behind, you try again....

How much fun was that though...now you might understand why the bump is used. Might I add.... I understand using the bump in the left lane...might not be right... but sometimes...

leah28racing
07-26-2007, 02:57 PM
I think Tommy would do ok if he had a better car and more seat time. Didn't everyone have to learn to be where they are today? He's just learning in the Latemodel.He didn't win races in the BB when he started there either. He raced one race in the Latemodel, why are we talking about him anyway?

KickItUp
07-26-2007, 03:27 PM
Oh dear god.. You do not know my history, or my racing experience, I have more than enough to have an opinion, and to comment on what I see. Money has nothing to do with driving talent, racing, or the LIE.. You cannot compare driving on the LIE to racing at Riverhead.. Maybe that's the problem here..

In any case.. I wasn't looking for racing advice, or how to race, nor am I looking to race.. If I was you can bet your life's savings it would not be in a LM at Riverhead after how those drivers have resorted to running..

What I wanted to get across was an honest opinion.. OK, I take back my comment on speaking to Tommy in the 00.. talk to the 76, or the 22.. How about the 32? Those guys don't have any extra car, and they too can go from the back to the front cleanly.. And being in a tank doesn't matter, when they do it without touching another car.. And if you want to use horsepower and car size to make your excuses as to why you can't race you own race, then maybe you have too much and need to downgrade.. Sounds like some of you LM folks have a "class' issue.. If someone can drive in a lesser division, sounds like they have no business comparing their talent to one in a higher division.. That's what I got from some of the comments.. I also would think that most of the BB division would take offense to being called starter cars.. Over the years many a GREAT driver ran that division only for their careers.. But it is kind of sad that the "starter' class has more class than one of the supposed "elite" classes..

In any case, your division is failing. Embarassing car counts, embarassing racing.. I can't change that, only you can..

RacinRob
07-26-2007, 04:28 PM
Put Tommy in another car, I'll bet my bottom dollar he still comes from back to front. A lot of Tommy's wins come with his driving ability...granted he does have superb equipment, but I have one of the best cars, but do you see me winning races yet? NO....honestly, Tommy shouldn't be a topic in this conversation, it's too early to judge his Late Model career after one race and you can not compare his Blunderbust career to the Late Models....apples and oranges!

SuperShafts
07-26-2007, 05:01 PM
Oh dear god.. You do not know my history, or my racing experience, I have more than enough to have an opinion, and to comment on what I see. Money has nothing to do with driving talent, racing, or the LIE.. You cannot compare driving on the LIE to racing at Riverhead.. Maybe that's the problem here..
.

You're right, you're not driving on the limits edge, you have a lot more leeway for a problem.
Unlike a short track with a problem in the corner and little room to maneuver and involving hard braking and upsetting the cars balance.


In any case.. I wasn't looking for racing advice, or how to race, nor am I looking to race.. If I was you can bet your life's savings it would not be in a LM at Riverhead after how those drivers have resorted to running..

Now you see if it was me, and I thought like you, what better place to use and prove they're all doing it wrong..by starting at the back and whipping my way to the front like I was shot out of a cannon on rails and show them how to do it...



.. And being in a tank doesn't matter, when they do it without touching another car.. And if you want to use horsepower and car size to make your excuses as to why you can't race you own race, then maybe you have too much and need to downgrade.. Sounds like some of you LM folks have a "class' issue.. If someone can drive in a lesser division, sounds like they have no business comparing their talent to one in a higher division.. That's what I got from some of the comments.. I also would think that most of the BB division would take offense to being called starter cars.. Over the years many a GREAT driver ran that division only for their careers.. But it is kind of sad that the "starter' class has more class than one of the supposed "elite" classes..


Again you're comparing 2 different animals, so what if we start comparing Nascar....they never have a problem with accidents and mishaps and mistakes, what about F-1, the elite in my eyes, there is nothing better, the technilogical advances in car design, the absolute best of everything, the same series that proves the theory of the race isn't won on the 1st lap just isn't true sometimes....even they have big mishaps and the field is down by half...

It's racing, there are no guarantees, there is no perfect everything, stuff is going to happen, tempers are going to play a role in talent, mistakes are going to happen...


In any case, your division is failing. Embarassing car counts, embarassing racing.. I can't change that, only you can..

I look at this thread and think it can't be that bad, this board isn't for racers only, and not that many are complaining, as per car count, money is an issue there..

Jeff T
07-26-2007, 09:49 PM
Hey Kick, just for the record, I was not putting down Tommy W. at all. He is an extremely talented racer. All I was saying is that I'm sure he found a world of difference between his BB and the LM. If you don't think that it is a big difference, talk to Eddie Mistretta, Bobby Gardiner, Joe Hartmann, and a host of others. It's a huge difference between the BB and a LM or Mod. Eddie and Bobby both did seat time in the LM (although I can't remember whose car Eddie drove).
And yes, we do have a problem with the LM division. The major issue is trying to stop the carnage on lap one every week. That is what this whole thread started talking about. Many of the people commenting on this thread are for the most part connected to a LM team in one form or another. We are all here to try and steer this problem in the right direction to get it fixed. We're not putting the BB division,or any of it's drivers down, we are just trying to explain that there are major differences between these two types of cars. So in response to you saying that we have a "class" problem, I disagree with you on that point. And I'm sorry that you no longer like the LM division and think so badly of it. I guess when we come out for our features from now on, we can pretty much count on you not watching them.

Tower Man
07-27-2007, 08:35 AM
Judging Tommy, 00 BB, on one Late Model race, his first, is dumb. I recall Roger Maynor's first Figure 8 race way back in the late seventies, fresh out of the Air Force I believe and in a borrowed car, crashed and destroyed it. I think they were able to save the seat belts.

The Late Models are full of expereinced drivers. And that is what the original intent of this post was about. The Late Models. It's the same cars week after week crashing and wrecking others.

Morty did a nice job last week. So he bumped and moved the 23. So what! He didn't wreck 'em. It's short track racing at it's best. But the carnage that goes on week after week. Well, I for one think it's disgusting. Having a drivers' meeting won't help. Extra laps won't help. Bottom line, intentionally touch another and they spin or crash, well, your done. Park it and start in the rear until you can race without crashing.

Guys, isn't it better to work on your cars to make them better? Or do you like fixing damage, week after week?

W. J.
07-27-2007, 09:48 AM
Bottom line, intentionally touch another and they spin or crash, well, your done. Park it and start in the rear until you can race without crashing.
Guys, isn't it better to work on your cars to make them better? Or do you like fixing damage, week after week?
Exactly! Well said, Towerman.

Turbo
07-27-2007, 12:25 PM
I can recall Jack Orlando startin scratch on the field several times because his car just wasnt right!! Now Jack is an awesome driver and if he can do it with knowing he might just be in the way of faster cars that night, then why can't these other guys think that way also?? If the cars not handling, missing, or somethings amiss, the best thing to do is start in the back!!

catfish
07-27-2007, 01:34 PM
Turbo good point, but the problem is is the people who are the problem will never in a 100 years admit that they are the problem, no matter how many times they have destroyed a racecar all on their own. They just don't get it, and it's been that way for years.

Turbo
07-27-2007, 02:39 PM
Yes, that is definitely true, their car maybe right, but they are not driving it the right way. :confused:

fisherman
07-27-2007, 08:30 PM
maybe the better cars and drivers should give the under funded bad cars a chance to get out of the way instead of crashing in the 1st 2 laps. or you wont have to complain about them because you wont have a division. also maybe help them get their cars better

Wheel Racing
07-27-2007, 09:41 PM
Sometimes it seems that the cars are fast enough to compete, but the drivers over-drive them. Some drivers are more capable of driving on the edge every lap and some are more accustomed to "taking some laps off". I think that the problem is not necessarily the cars.