Attendance at Riverhead

[J.D.]

It seems to me there was a lot more people going to the Races ten years ago. I can't understand why Riverhead Raceway doesn't advertise more to bring the attendence up. I can't figure that one out.

[Jaws]

It seems to me there was a lot more people going to the Races ten years ago. I can't understand why Riverhead Raceway doesn't advertise more to bring the attendence up. I can't figure that one out.

Ads cost money, they don't spend much money on those things anymore except the 2 racing papers.

The track is relying on the hardcore fan who knows the track is running to they just show up.

Those days are gone because the hardcore fans are getting older (wiser) and don't got to Riverhead as much. I used to go to 10 -15 races a year. Now I go 2 or 3. But I go to 8- 12 races off the Island now and I am not the only one judging by the long islanders I run into at Stafford, Thompson and other tracks.

[randomrodder]

My wife, children and I wouldn't miss a race night between Islip and Riverhead for years, (20 or more). We stopped going. Pete got heavily involved in it again a number of years ago. I have only gone back on a regular basis late this season. I won't be there tonight.

I missed the on track racing but can do without all the drama in the pits and on the track. I often wonder whatever happened to sportsmanship.
It had gotten to the point that the last two weeks I didn't want to hang out in the pits after the races. Shameful.

[KickItUp]

LI is a very very tough place to live these days, and a lot of the middle class folks have left.. Many of those were the race fans.. The more well to do folks buying houses on LI now, are not the race fan types.. Sad, but true, in my opinion. I see it all over..
The younger generations cannot afford to live here, much less go to the races each week if they are still here, and the older generations have long gone as well, being they can't afford to live here either.. So who is left?

As for not knowing where a racetrack is.. I just don't understand.. If you are a real fan, first thing you do if you LIVE somewhere is know what you have around you. I know when I go away on vacation, first thing I do, even in Winter, is look to find if there are racetracks anyplace, being I am a fan.. If I was a fan of some other kind of recreation, I'd be looking to see where to go locally to spend my time enjoying that sort of thing.. In the day and age of internet, you should easily be able to find out if LI still has a racetrack, if you don't already know..

[concordcharlie]

:wave:
My wife, children and I wouldn't miss a race night between Islip and Riverhead for years, (20 or more). We stopped going. Pete got heavily involved in it again a number of years ago. I have only gone back on a regular basis late this season. I won't be there tonight.

I missed the on track racing but can do without all the drama in the pits and on the track. I often wonder whatever happened to sportsmanship.
It had gotten to the point that the last two weeks I didn't want to hang out in the pits after the races. Shameful. I worked at the track. It allows the people in, the pits crews, drivers, fans you are all lucky you're allowed in pits after the races. Lots of track don't allow you in. Everyone needs to work together to stop all the trouble after the races. You all there to have fun and enjoy yourself. Make it fun again, thank you.

[concordcharlie]

LI is a very very tough place to live these days, and alot of the middle class folks have left.. Many of those were the race fans.. The more well to do folks buying houses on LI now, are not the race fan types.. Sad, but true in my opinion. I see it all over..
The younger generations cannot afford to live here, much less go to the races each week if they are still here, and the older generations have long gone as well, being they can't afford to live here either.. So who is left?

As for not knowing where a racetrack is.. I just don't understand.. If you are a real fan, first thing you do if you LIVE somewhere is know what you have around you. I know when I go away on vacation, first thing I do, even in Winter, is look to find if there are racetracks anyplace, being I am a fan.. If I was a fan of some other kind of recreation, I'd be looking to see where to go locally to spend my time enjoying that sort of thing.. In the day and age of internet, you should easily be able to find out if LI still has a racetrack, if you don't already know..
you are 100percent right

[RGeeProductions]

Ads cost money, they don't spend much money on those things anymore except the 2 racing papers.

They also BUY a weekly ad in the News Review, a Riverhead newspaper.
This makes no sense whatsoever because people in Riverhead already know the track is there.

[Jaws]

They also BUY a weekly ad in the News Review, a Riverhead newspaper.
This makes no sense whatsoever because people in Riverhead already know the track is there.

Thats some big bucks!!

[randomrodder]

:wave: i worked at the track It allows the people in the pits. Crew, drivers, fans, you are all lucky you're allowed in pits after the races. Lots of track don't allow you in. Everyone needs to work together to stop all the trouble after the races. You are there to have fun and enjoy yourself. Make it fun again.

I know what you are talking about and I have been going into the pits from the mid 60s. I've never been involved in a fight. My kids grew up in the pits. Sure "stuff" has happened in the pits for years, it's just gotten out of hand is all I am saying.

I'm also in the pits before and during the races. My main point had nothing to do with what you posted. My point was and still is....Where has all the Sportsmanship gone?

Sure, oval track racing is a competitive sport with very competitive people involved, from the crews up and through the car owners. One thing you will note, the drivers that go on and achieve success in the "Major" leagues act accordingly while racing in the bull rings. Nothing out does Class and Talent.

If you are going to booze it up and fight like a teenage hood, of which I was one in my youth, in the pits, then you, (not you but in general) are apt to stay right where you are. I call that being short sighted. If not short sighted then maybe one with out a vision or one just playing around. If that be the case, why mess it up for those that are serious about their future?

[IDRIVEALARGECAR]

I will tell you why attendance is down, $20 to get in and witness what I have been hearing is nothing short of an embarrassment. Fights and immature behavior is not what the average race fan wants to see at the track. Car counts are the lowest due to over aggressive driving and drivers bringing vengence out on the track. Officiating, well need I say any more, has been the worst the last 4-5 years than it's ever been, favoritism is killing the track and the Fans that frequent it. I literally have 7 tracks here in N.C., all within an hours drive from my house, 4 asphalt, 3 dirt and the most you will pay is $15 to get in and that is for a 150 or 200 lap feature race. Most of the time it is only $10 to get in and the pits are packed with cars and I have yet to see a full blown fight in the pits. Yes, there are your tempers flaring, but it never gets to fistacuffs. Say what you wish about N.C., but we have settled in very comfortably into what was used to be known as middle class in N.Y. It still exists down here, as well as a great quality of life change from up there. I still love N.Y. and always will, but there are more reasons why people are leaving L.I. by the thousands each and every year. It's not just the racing at Riverhead.
Be well and good luck with Riverhead.
Joey Colicchio
Livin It Up In N.C.

[SuperShafts]

I couldn't tell you how many people I have spoken with in the last 3 years that thought RR was also gone....

[randomrodder]

I couldn't tell you how many people i have spoken with in the last 3 years that thought RR was also gone....

They've been saying that for a lot longer than the last 3 years. I don't think it's going anywhere anytime soon. Unless someone causes someone to bring about a ridiculously high lawsuit over someone's immaturity, or worse yet, stupidity.

[wayne]

This year has been the best (attendance wise) in years. The stands were packed almost all year long!!

[randomrodder]

This year has been the best (attendance wise) in years. The stands were packed almost all year long!!

Hey Wayne, you won a race, you have stars in your eyes! LOL..J/K

[SuperShafts]

They've been saying that for a lot longer then the last 3 years. I don't think it's going anywhere anytime soon. Unless someone causes someone to bring about a rediculously high law suit over someone's immaturity or worse yet, stupidity.


Yeah but in the last 3 years I have probably spoken with so many people I would be afraid to put a number on how many of them that thought RR was gone. It was unbelievable, but what was scary was the lack of concern it was gone and it wasn't..

Hopefully with Mike on board from News 12 it will help, but tonight was good, I thought, I wish I was more prepared...did anyone get the fliers that were there, I'm just curious if they were given out.

[randomrodder]

I sure hope so. There is too much apathy going on in too many areas in our lives as it is. That's the main reason legislators get away with passing laws that make law abiding citizens instant law breakers. Seems people just don't give a hoot anymore.

Or at least, not enough of them stand up for their beliefs. Then again, that doesn't seems to matter does it? Just takes one judge or a board of 4 people to decide what THEY think is best for us.

Ok, ok, enough of this soapbox for me. I'm going way O/T. Just an old man missing the old school ways.

[SuperShafts]

Let's bring back the old school...


Bringing back old school ! ! ! ! !

[W. J.]

Attendance at Riverhead, I was told tonight, was better this year than expected, and the owner's are pleased. I'd have to agree, and I'm talking about nights when only regular divisions were running, not any of the specialty shows. There was a nice mix, especially with the Enduros thrown in, just maybe a little too many off nights for regular divisions overall.

Yeah, I know, there used to be more in past years, but looking back over the last 3-4, this was a good year. Whatever the reason, it's nice to know the owners are happy and want to keep going.

[leah28racing]

Maybe a commercial to start next season off. Slowing down on prices might help. more shows too!

[always amazed]

It costs a family of 4 $108.00 just to walk in the gate. Add to that the gall to charge $3.50 for a soda, $2.50 for a candy bar, $4.00 for a snow cone. I do not know how they think that would bring anyone to the track on a weekly basis. 12 late models 18 modifieds is hardly a full night of racing. Seekonk raceway is a beautiful track, puts on a great show and charges $15.00 for adults, kids 16 and under free. The place is always packed.
1000 people at $27.00 or 2000 at $13.50. Who will buy more food and drink seems like a better business decision.

[J.D.]

I think you are 100% right, always amazed.Look at the shows you get elsewhere for half the price. Riverhead has a monopoly on Long Island which they think will carry it.

[LongIslandJam]

How about the hundred's of short tracks around the country that are struggling? How about even the NEXTEL Cup tracks that are failing to fill stands. It's actually a nationwide issue and to be honest, from the tracks I've been to this year, Riverhead is bucking the trend, so they must be doing something right.

[IDRIVEALARGECAR]

J.A., if NASCAR brings the PONY Cars into the BUSCH series as they are talking about, I am sure you will no longer see empty seats at the BUSCH Races anymore. Years ago, the cars were the stars of the show. 7-8 different manufacturers and they looked like cars you could buy. NASCAR has gone away from what we all loved about it, and they are starting to realize it, I think. If someone could, by chance, start a new series and have all teams use only stock sheet metal, and one after market chassis, I think it could really put the France's Monopoly they have in some kind of jeopardy. I, for one, would support and watch it more than NEXTEL CUP, which I rarely watch any more.
Joey Colicchio
Livin It Up In N.C.

[LongIslandJam]

Joey,

The pony cars would bring back many pleasant memories of the old Trans-Am Series. I think the Busch Series next year is going to be quite different with a CoT in Cup and a "old-fashioned" car in the Busch Series.

However my comment was directed towards Cup. Cup shows are not getting grandstands filled. Only three sell-outs - Bristol, Richmond, and NHIS. If Cup can't sell out shows, then we got issues throughout the industry is my point.

[randomrodder]

NASCAR isn't filling the seats for one reason and one reason only. They sold out. They went too commericial, they went Hollywood. They bragged about how well the sport grew because they weren't like the stick and ball sports or Cart, Indy, F-1. So what do they do? Change the whole format to please their sponsors. Out with the old and in with the new.

I could go on but I won't.

[RGeeProductions]

Bring back the old ASA series. Stock looking and awesome racing......
It's a shame that that one division kinda fell to the wayside.
Many awesome drivers came from that series/division.

[SuperShafts]

NASCAR isn't filling the seats for one reason and one reason only. They sold out. They went too commericial, they went Hollywood. They bragged about how well the sport grew because they weren't like the stick and ball sports or Cart, Indy, F-1. So what do they do? Change the whole format to please their sponsors. Out with the old and in with the new.

I could go on but I won't.

Nascar's problem is they seem to be wanting to make it like...IROC...

Everything is the same...if the cars don't look different and the motors aren't different...side by side you would have a hard time having any clue what motor belongs to what maker...

They need to kinda get back to there original foundation
I want to see mopar's fixed hemi vs gm's best L series whatever and fords junk, and even toys trash...
I don't want to see a sb2 slight differing style in a dodge in a ford in a gm and everything and have a slight slight valve angle difference...

I want to see gm's L headed vs mopars fh or w headed..vs fords cl headed stuff.

The other problem i see is restriction....lose them damn 63 truck trailing arms for crying out loud now wth are they still doing with that crap..

lose the restrictor plate...as a driver that would drive me absolutely insane...toss the restrictor and go to a 8" tire width or narrower for those tracks if you feel speed is to fast..

Look at nhra and scca...not so much nhra, they never really lost it, but they brought back the vintage SS division, but scca with the vin trans am div is huge.....and we don't have a road course here anymore.

__________________________________________________ _______________

As per comparing RR with other tracks....

You guy's have a govt here that only lets them operate 28 days in total between april to sept... Property tax isn't assess-ed by time used...

So i would bet that is a huge difference in pay...

Also RR uses AMERICAN kids, so maybe there paying them a bit better..or would you rather.....cun ah hoop u...at the counter, and turtiy pesos...ah doler

As a business owner don't compare here (NY) with there (MA) it just doesn't work.. It can't be the same.

I can not charge the same money for what someone else does in AZ or WA, it won't happen, the ins cost isn't the same, the truck ins isn't the same, the property tax we pay here is atleast 10 times what it is there, workers comp, pay scale, elec, gas, it's all different...why do you think the other driveshaft shop ran out of here...now he loves it...

[concordcharlie]

Joey,

The pony cars would bring back many pleasant memories of the old Trans-Am Series. I think the Busch Series next year is going to be quite different with a CoT in Cup and a "old-fashioned" car in the Busch Series.

However my comment was directed towards Cup. Cup shows are not getting grandstands filled. Only three sell-outs - Bristol, Richmond, and NHIS. If Cup can't sell out shows, then we got issues throughout the industry is my point.I think Lowes was sold out also. They were in Oct race.

[W. J.]

I think Lowes was sold out also. They were in Oct race.

Not in any of the races I've seen from there recently. There are always plenty of seats up in turn 4 at those races. Dover has close to 10,000 empty seats each race, which is why they've never added the last 7,000 seats in turn 2.

[unowho243]

I thought Attendance was great this year the best its been in a while... The racing was great also!:applause:

[Dwight Clock]

A lot of valid points made here. But there's more. The racing simply isn't as good as it was years ago. The modifieds long ago outgrew the bull rings such as Riverhead and Islip. One quarter and one fifth mile tracks that are 25 to 30 feet wide don't allow for 8 foot wide, 700 hp cars to have room to race. Hence, most races are won from the front couple of rows. It used to be that the winners usually came from rows five through eight. With everyone having factory built race cars that cost $35-40 thousand, there is no room for individual ingenuity that used to make some cars faster than others. That is why there are barely 20 mods in the pits these days, as opposed to the fifty plus that were common in the early 70's. One more thing is the length of the show. A complete show used to take 3 hours or less. Now it is 5 or more hours. Try sitting with a 5 year old that long. The parents simply stopped coming and another potential future fan was lost. Don't take this as a slam against Riverhead, as it is a common problem throughout the country.

[jimmy'z]

I started going to the races about..umm, 25 years ago or so, and all I can say is for what they charge there is no where near the show put on to justify spending it.

Hearsay or whatever-but someone is making out like a screaming bandit here. It sure isn't me or my numerous relatives who race there .. Driver payouts decreasing, car counts decreasing, car costs increasing, pit and grandstand fees increasing..simple math.

The track should thank the people for showing up-not crucify them saying they have no choice since we're the only show in town.

Also, to the comment up above about how the local tracks nationwide on a whole are doing poorly....ask the people who scurry up to buy them what their interests are......sure ain't racing.

[bulldozer]

I would have to say I thought attendance was up this year. I think the track should have different prices for kids 12-16 as they are not adults they cannot get into the pits and don't have jobs. I think maybe a 10 dollar to get in price would help bring more of that age into the track. Keep the 5 and under free, 6-12 5 bucks, and the adults who don't come in the pits 20 dollars flat. I also think maybe the first three weeks when the weather is cold and bad, let the adults in the stands have a 10 dollar price special. Then when it warms up, people will show up and pay the regular 20 bucks. Yes more racing also. NO MAGIC ACTS PLEASE. I think every class should have off twice all year. That's it. People want to see the races. I know Stafford and Waterford race EVERY week. They don't have nights off. Car counts are down, but I think it will pick back up. Maybe a two tire rule every week, so the less funded teams can compete. Let's hope that the track at least waits and listens to the drivers and maybe the officals before they make the schedule this year. Then maybe if it's a two tire rule, we can win a race and be able to afford the two tires we buy that night. 81

[Dwight Clock]

I started going to the races about..umm, 25 years ago or so, and all I can say is for what they charge there is no where near the show put on to justify spending it.

Hearsay or whatever-but someone is making out like a screaming bandit here. It sure isn't me or my numerous relatives who race there .. Driver payouts decreasing, car counts decreasing, car costs increasing, pit and grandstand fees increasing..simple math.

The track should thank the people for showing up-not crucify them saying they have no choice since we're the only show in town.

Also, to the comment up above about how the local tracks nationwide on a whole are doing poorly....ask the people who scurry up to buy them what their interests are......sure ain't racing.Their interest is due to the fact they think every promoter is making a killing and they want a piece of the pie. When they buy it they find out the truth that most promoters aren't making squat. At that point they put the track back up for sale to the next person who thinks he has it figured out.

[wayne]

A lot of people have been saying car counts were down...just Chargers and Late Models were. I know that sucks, but Pro Trucks were up this year, and Blunderbust were up this year, too. I know people don't think the "Circus acts" are racing, but they were up, too. Grands, 6 cyl, 4cyl, 8's, Roll overs, spectator drags, 4/6 cyl trucks. All of em' had good car counts this year. I think by getting rid of the knucklehead that used to run the show, and the scheduling changes made a big difference this year. For the better. They're making strides!!

[LEAD LAP]

There needs to be a fall meeting between the teams and the new Chief Judges to get both sides to air out their grievances. BEFORE the 2008 Schedule is made. BEFORE the 2008 rule changes are written. Historically, by the time the Winter meeting rolls around each year, the schedule has been set and the rules already written. The suggestions made at that meeting to the old regime have gone in one ear and out the other.

Granted that the new Judges had to take over mid-season, and they did a great job considering they had a lot of nonsense dumped in their laps. But read the posts. There are some very unhappy racers. And fans, too.

And before you say "you can't please everyone", at least hear people out. There are some real legitimate changes that need to be made.

[Gravel]

I just got back from Dover today. I can tell you the place was far from sold out. Why? I think the fact that they let Toyota in was a mistake. People who I spoke to thought that NASCAR has become too much of a money driven business [for the France's] They also said that debris cautions [phantom debris ones I mean] were not cool. [Their words, not mine] $105 for a ticket, $40.00 to park. A four hour wait in traffic because they closed the 2 lanes to get in because they say the lot is full. [I personally counted over 150 parking spaces empty before I stopped.]
As far as RR. $20-26 is a lot to get in. You've got to remember, you're competing for dollars that people are looking to get the MOST out of their dollar. Citibank Park charges me $9 for seats behind home plate. I also go to MANY other tracks all over the country and the average is $12- 15. You make your money from the concessions, not the gate. The lack of consistant calls has also been the downfall. Fights, throwing of objects, innocent people getting hurt. Fairness was thrown out. I left because my integrity was brought into question. [Don't do that] The new chief's have their work cut out for them. I truly hope they succeed.
As far as car counts go. Many nights I counted less than 100 cars in the pits and that was with all 6 divisions running. Trucks were up, but all other divisions seemed to be down. I could be wrong, because I was using the Jam's lists. I hope people will give the new chiefs a fair shake and return to the track. Let them prove they will make FAIR and consistant calls. If they do that, the people WILL return. JMHO

[rabbid1]

I was at Dover too !!! Carl Edwards rocks !!! My gripe is with the scoreboard operator . The first half of the race not even the lap count was right . Although the traffic and waits were not as bad as last year . They did a better job with the shuttle buses too . The food was pretty horrible though. All that aside it was a great time as usual ! 40 for parking, You got ripped off .

[LongIslandJam]

It all comes down to the show. If they put on a crappy show for fans, they won't come back. Cup races for the most part have been boorrring. A lot of short tracks are failing to realize they need to put on a show as well. Riverhead actually does a decent job with realizing that need to put on a show. Compared to some tracks I have visited, they realize the fans need constant entertainment, although sometimes they do err with their ways, which happens. Overall, not a bad job.

Cup drivers have become "vanilla" with their personalities as well as their driving styles. Gone are the days when you had hard racing drivers with colorful personalities such as Dale Earnhardt, Darrell Waltrip, Geoffrey Bodine, Richard Petty, David Pearson, Cale Yarborough, etc... With the aforementioned, you either loved them, or loved to hate them.

I disagree with the Toyota thing Gravel. Toyota thing is going to be good for NASCAR and you'll see why in a few years. They are introducing some interesting cost-saving procedures for their factory-backed teams. Toyota is going to revolutionize the sport (which the sport needs to survive), they just need to get their performance up to snuff, which is tough with all-new teams (except for Bill Davis). You'll see a Toyota next year in victory lane, I am confident enough to make that prediction.

Good discussion folks...

[SuperShafts]

Yeah, I agree with JA, the cost of building, maintaining is killer..these sponsors will eventually become drained...or it could get like F-1...but I don't think so..

If you ever get into F-1 and see their costs, aside from what some drivers get paid...they could buy countries with their budgets

[Dwight Clock]

Yeah I agree with JA, the cost of building, maintaining is killer..these sponsors will eventually become drained...or it could get like F-1...but I don't think so..

If you ever get into F-1 and see their costs, aside from what some drivers get paid...they could buy countries with their budgetsThe standard F1 budget is in the $200 million range. And that is annually!:rolleyes:

[SuperShafts]

200 mil gets you last place in F-1, 300 mil makes you competitive

[KickItUp]

Money Money Money.. That's what any form of racing is judged by. You can go right down into the BB division, and some have unlimited budgets, some have none. Who has the better chance of being competitive every week? The dude with the big budget.

That's all off topic anyhow.. But money isn't. This, I believe with all of my heart, is the main reason attendance is low at the track. For the typical family on LI, to go each week, is too much money.. Sure, going once a month, or maybe two times a year, it's an outing.. It's not a weekly thing at the prices it will cost a typical family on LI who is struggling to pay mortgages and such, while still in debt anyway. If prices were lower and easier on a family's wallet, they'd be able to come more often. Fans can't get sponsors..

[00 RBDJ]

The money is a big part of why people don't go every week. Everyone I talk to they want to go and don't because it is just to much. I go every week the figure8's are on, seeing as we have the 2 cars racing. But we are a family of 6 (3A, 3C) it does cost a lot...We eat before we go and pack snacks, drinks and sandwiches, otherwise it would cost $200 easily everyweek. They have to make the money somewhere, but it's very expensive. But I do think that the attendance was up from the previous year. Some nights we had a problem finding seats so that we actually had to stand the entire night.

[nascar071]

The original thread was based on the attendance at the track, with that in mind here's my opinion.

I only race about 4 or 5 times a season, each night it costs me $40 dollars to get the wife and kids in. Not bad for a full night of racing. The problem I had this year was the fact that the 4 or 5 kids we brought with us are not 12yrs old anymore. We used to pay for them to get in. Their parents would give them each $20 to spend on what they wanted and they would spend it all and then some. Now that they are 13, I can't spend $20 - $25 dollars each for these kids, and their parents dont want to give them $50 to go to the races. If I raced 20 events this year, it would run about $60 just to get my family in plus food and drinks with a final tally somewhere in the $100 - $120 range. Over the course of the season, over $2000 dollars. 2 years ago I suggested they change their policy on 13 -16 yrs kids and make the fee $10. Trust me, I understand the business side of things, but you can't make money if they don't show up. There is no way I'm spending $100 -$125 to get 4 or 5 13 year old kids into the track. I applaud the Cromarty's for keeping the track running and I love to race there when my time allows me too, but they are losing out with these kids. I'm here not to bash the track, only to make suggestions. The few times I did go out this year, I did notice larger crowds than the past few seasons. The spectator drags are a big draw. I remember when they brought them in at Freeport it was huge! Something the fans can identify with and root for, plus it costs the Cromarty's nothing. What could be better? Well enough said for now. Thanks for the time. Ron Langdon

[art11758]

I hear that! For myself, the "eating machines" (my two sons aged 11 and 14) and occasionally my girlfriend, it's an easy $80 in the door. Even bringing stuff it's not easy (no hard side coolers, bottles or cans...). Now I still travel a bit, and here's the rub. Some places are even pricier than Riverhead (depending on the show), and a few are less expensive. My current favorite is three hours away, costs tops $60 to get in and the eats are great and the show moves along. So if I wanna make a comparison, it's a simple question of how long I wanna drive. A night at either track costs about the same (really!) and I tend to have a better time away. I'm looking to be entertained, and not shaking my head at the end of the night going "grrrrrr". It's like expecting a good "Cup" race on tv. I've been disappointed so many times, I just don't bother. I don't want the "Riverhead experience" to become the same way. So I visit carefully (Sundays are the exception. I'm relating to Saturday nights)

[Tower Man]

All sporting events cost money. I regularly attend Islander games. I sit in section 104 and the tickets are $120 each. Game starts at 7 and is usually over by 9:30.

Forget the Jets. You could have nose bleed seats and still pay over $100 a ticket. Not to mention the GW and parking.

[W. J.]

All sporting events cost money. I regularly attend Islander games. I sit in section 104 and the tickets are $120 each. Game starts at 7 and is usually over by 9:30.

Forget the Jets. You could have nose bleed seats and still pay over $100 a ticket. Not to mention the GW and parking.
Comparing apples to oranges here. Let's keep the comparisons away from 'professional' sporting events, as they pay way too much money to their performers to begin with.

[Mike Fields]

Just a thought WJ. This is one of the rare times I disagree with you, since Riverhead bills the drivers as "professional" athletes.

Doesn't Bob Finan ofttimes states, "Where else can you meet and greet the professional athletes after the races end and get their autographs?"

One other thought. Back on August 31st, Lori won tickets to a section so high at Yankee Stadium, I thought we'd need a helicopter to get that high. It was up in Tier 14. I was somewhat surprised when I looked at the price listed on the tickets; $9.50.

[W. J.]

Back on August 31st, Lori won tickets to a section so high at Yankee Stadium, I thought we'd need a helicopter to get that high. It was up in Tier 14. I was somewhat surprised when I looked at the price listed on the tickets; $9.50.
Did the $9.50 include binoculars???

[Ken Resnick]

On that topic .....
Do the other pro athletes "Pay to Play "

We drivers pay the entry/pit fees for the pleasure of driving our race cars to give the fans a show.

Wow , I wonder how much Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods pays to entertain the fans ?

I had a conversation about this with a new friend not too long ago .

Ken Resnick

[modprincess8x]

I'm gonna put my 2 cents in on this thread too as my family has been talking about this issue for a few years now. I do agree that this year has been the best that I've seen recently but could still be better.

First- keep the officiating fair all the way through and the car counts will start to go back up even if it costs the same to race. Most drivers will pay whatever to race as long as they are having fun and getting caught up in other's crap on and off the track is not fun. Of course cheaper racing is always a plus.

Second- The price to get into the stands is crazy. I can see having the pits at the price it is but no middle class family can afford to go to the races more than maybe once or twice a year at these prices.

Third- I think they need to start the show later. I remember as a kid going to watch Dad that we left Levittown (an hour away) at approx. 5pm every week and we would make it to watch Dad's heat race. Leave at that time now and you may make some of the features.

I started a new job this winter and a few of the guys that I work with used to go to the track so they started asking questions about it. When I told them the prices to get in and the start times they said no way. One guy has three boys that play baseball and they don't get done with that until 3:30- 4pm and he just didn't see paying to go watch a few races.

On a side note- the people that work at the track are not getting paid good at all, it's amazing there are any officials working at all with what they have to deal with and what they get paid. I'm sure the people working in the concessions aren't getting paid any better.

[Tower Man]

W.J. I have to disagree with you. Professional Sports are professional sports and the fan base for all professional sports on Long Island is drawn from the same geographic area. A professional is defined as an individual who is paid for their performance. I remember getting a 1099 from the race track when I raced, therefore I was paid, along with countless others.

Modprincess, you hit the nail right on the head in all areas. Some of the officials arrive at the track before noon and get out after midnight. For what, $35 or $40.

A later start would help not only fans, but competitors who work Saturday's or families, as you said, play in sports. Back in the 70's when I raced at Islip, Bill Stockert and I used to leave Babylon at 4:30, right after watching the Pro Bowlers Tour on ABC. We arrived at the track in plenty of time for Warm ups.

And the admissions are high, as is any sporting event with the exception of the Long Island Ducks, where I have sat field level, front row next to the dugout for $11.

As to fair officiating, most officials do the best they can. I don't believe any official walks through the gate to be a bad official. Consistency is key. Treat all the same. What we have now is inexperience. Being the top dog looks easy from the stands or your pit spot. I just wish the top guy, (or guys), had a little bit of racing experience.But they will get better as they go along.

What needs to happen is to get a team of officials that work TOGETHER.

Sorry if I got off topic, but professional sports are professional sports, whether you get a million dollars to participate or $20. A pro is a pro. Which makes it apples to apples in my book.

[LongIslandJam]

I disagree with you Tower Man (in part),

Riverhead Raceway is not the major leagues of motorsports. It's the minor leagues, so they need to take that philosophy of a minor league ballpark promoter. Tracks that have - Bullring at Las Vegas, Motor Mile, Lake Erie, etc. have become very successful.

But on that note again, if the stands are usually full at Riverhead this past season, probably the best in my 7 years there. Why mess with what works? Throw a Bus demo or some sort of crash bash 'em oddity and draw a crowd. It's about the entertainment value from a promoter's standpoint, and to be honest, those kind of races have a better entertainment value than watching some of the racing we produce.

[00 RBDJ]

I agree with the people at the track not getting paid well. But they do have perks. I maybe wrong but I don't belive they pay to get in, they get certain fiids/drinks for free and I know for a fact that they get other people in for free. So it makes up for what they are not getting paid. So maybe instead of letting all of the friends and family in for free they should charge a discounted rate for them and lower the admission price for others. They should also leave it the same price instead of changing it all the time, They start at $21 go up to $27 back down to $25. I understand they have special features/shows some nights but average it out and keep the price the same. And if they changed the age from 13 to 16 I think more people would also come. Just my opinion. With all that said, and a little off topic, the attendance definitely has gone up from the year before..

[SuperShafts]

On that topic .....
We drivers pay the entry/pit fees for the pleasure of driving our race cars to give the fans a show.
Ken Resnick
No you don't...you pay a rental or facility use fee to do what you supposedly love and do not get mad when someone else uses it to charge others to watch...

Doesn't Bob Finan ofttimes states, "Where else can you meet and greet the professional athletes after the races end and get their autographs?"

I can think of a few that you can do that while things are going on....

That is something that should change, along with how they park the race haulers and waste space with cars NOT behind their trailer...

As for professional sports.....I gotta go with what my dad said to me once and then here and there when he saw an issue...
Did you get paid even though you twisted that rear end? no..
How much was that and who is paying for it? enough and me
Would you have gotten paid if you broke your arm? no..
Professionals get paid either way, not only if they win...

Well I don't want to be a professional anymore, I've just gotta be the best...

I started a new job this winter and a few of the guys that I work with used to go to the track so they started asking questions about it. When I told them the prices to get in and the start times they said no way. One guy has three boys that play baseball and they don't get done with that until 3:30- 4pm and he just didn't see paying to go watch a few races.
Lol. I have 3 boys also. I have been to Riverhead this year 6 times... 3 of them I paid for everyone to get in...ran the SD's and then left immediatley after, and it would have been more than that if not for other circumstances...and usually I get there late, missing some stuff purposely and arriving for what I feel matters...
But....him having 3 baseball players...and forget that better than high school, almost a college idea, Ducks Stadium...
How much is Shea and Yankee stadium? ? Lol and they're worse than RR. You don't even get to go to the dugout after the game is over..

[KickItUp]

My only issue with starting later is this.. As it is, at the 6 PM start time, (for features anyhow), by the time all is said and done, and we get home, it is well after midnight and sometimes even later than that.. I love the beginning of the season when we get in by 9.. If they started later, I can't honestly enjoy myself these days if I was getting home at 2-3 AM, and children certainly won't enjoy it.. If they start later, they need to adjust the show..

I still think money is the main issue.. Doesn't matter what other places of entertainment charge.. Other sports for the most part are daily, they aren't looking for daily attendance fans.. Racing is weekly, and local, and fans should be able to come each and every week if they choose.. But, most can't, with having to pay to live on LI on a LI salary.. The numbers just don't allow for weekly entertainment anymore..
What about those track that have all those specials nights, half price ladies night, $1 night.. I imagine you do one or 2 of those a season,maybe more, and you sell the place out.. You'd be making money, and might get some new fans to boot..

[modprincess8x]

Ok I'm having difficulty understanding how drivers at Riverhead can be considered professional race car drivers. Is racing at Riverhead anyones profession? Are any of these drivers making a living racing? If so please let me in, because apparently we are doing something wrong here. I would say the only professional racecar drivers are those in the Craftsman Trucks, Busch cars and Cup cars (in relation to NASCAR of course, I don't follow other racing), they make a living racing. I would compare the Whelen Tour to the Long Island Ducks- semi pro. Racing at Riverhead is just a very expensive hobby.

Supershaft... A regular fan of racing that doesn't go to Riverhead for a specific purpose other than to watch races would most likely want to pay to watch the whole show. Watch heat/qualifying races and watch to see who looks fast and could potentially put on a good show in the feature, see who may have problems in the heat race and see how they do in the feature, if someome crashes in the heat race, will they get their car together in time for a consi or feature. As a matter of fact, I am going to Mountain this weekend on Saturday because I want to see the heat races and see how the locals do and who makes the show or doesn't. If I go to a baseball game of any level, whether it be little league, high school, the Ducks or Mets/Yankees, I'm going to go for the whole game. I don't want to show up 5th inning and wonder how they got to the current score. Did anyone hit a homerun? Grand slam? Anyone strike out? Point is that if I'm paying to watch a sporting event of any sort, I want to watch the whole thing, especially if it's expensive to walk in the gate to watch. Sometimes it's just not worth it.

[SuperShafts]

Exactly modprincess you're going for the game, not batting practice

Other then NHRA/IHRA and F-1... qualifiying isn't important...you don't get the same ladder of pairing, and records are made 75% of the time during practice and qt...

Until RR is repaved or someone comes up with some new legal tech..the track record isn't going away.

The only thing you really see that I miss is..hey why isn't so and so running..

[Gravel]

I agree with the people at the track not getting paid well. But they do have perks. I maybe wrong but I don't belive they pay to get in, they get certain fiids/drinks for free and I know for a fact that they get other people in for free. So it makes up for what they are not getting paid. So maybe instead of letting all of the friends and family in for free they should charge a discounted rate for them and lower the admission price for others. They should also leave it the same price instead of changing it all the time, They start at $21 go up to $27 back down to $25. I understand they have special features/shows some nights but average it out and keep the price the same. And if they changed the age from 13 to 16 I think more people would also come. Just my opinion. With all that said, and a little off topic,the attendance definitely has gone up from the year before..

Ok, Maybe I shouldn't say this, but people need to know what the officials do.
When I worked there, I got $40-45 a nite. Arrived at 12-12:30, did WHATEVER needed to be done.[i.e. tech cars, flag, spread out speedy dri, drive the sweeper, hook up wrecked cars] anything that needed to get done to move the show along. Perks? Some. Signed in free. Had to pay for my NASCAR license, in 6 years, I got my wife and son in twice. Most of the food and drinks came from the drivers who offered because they respected what you were doing. [Which I publicly thank all of you for] By the time the night was OVER ,[around 10-10:30 at night] I have been there for 10&1/2 hours. Basic math tells me that I got $4.00 an hour. But you know what, I'd do it all again under the right circumstances.:) I love the place.:) Have a great deal of respect and thankfulness for the Cromarty's because they allowed me to live out a dream. As you all know, when you love something very much, money is not the most pressing.

[00 RBDJ]

Gravel-
I give the officials a lot of credit and would not want the job they have. I am not saying that you do not deserve to have your wife and children in for free. But there are people that do abuse it like anything else. I was just trying to make a suggestion, I apologize if I offended anyone.

[hollywoodmic]

OK here are some ideas:

People who work for a race team, give them a $10.00 discount per week, but make them purchase a Season pass, before the year starts. There would have to be a way to scan the pass in or something, to be sure it wasn't being re-used. Or print individual sheets of tickets and give them those to present at the window when they sign in. Now as an owner you may be getting paid monies for nights that people will not be there, but you get paid up front anyway. Now you are giving your die-hard pit workers and race car drivers a discount. If they couldn't make it one week or their division was off, then the promotor still gets that money.

For the stands, how about some sort of family package? You and your family know you want to go to 5 races next year, just like season tickets, you buy a mini-family plan. Again some sort of discount to the family or food and beverage vouchers, give people a reason to come out because you've made the effort to reduce the price. You have Die-Hard fans that wouldn't miss a week, sell 'em season tickets. Perhaps during the night, do a special on food or beer, announce that the next 20 minutes, Cheesburgers will be $2.00.


For the Chief Stewards, I say write up a code of conduct, have one signed by every driver and car owner, as a group at the winter meetings, you all agree on this code of conduct, before it is written. For example: if there is a fight in the pits, and everyone one agreed there is a 2 week suspension for fighting. There will be no judgement call by the Chief Stewards, they just go with the good old signed code of conduct and let the driver and team know that they are suspended for the next 2 races. Then the men in charge would only be enforcing the rule that all the drivers and car owners agreed to and signed. You would now have consistency and accountability for your actions on and off the racetrack. If the drivers decide that if someone gets dumped, that the guy who got spun should get his spot back and the other driver should go to the back, then it's done. No judgement call, no I don't know if he spun him, if you go around by contact intentional or not, this is the rule. Enforce it as an official, do not a make a decision. The owners and drivers already made the decision, you are just enforcing the rule put forth by them.

Another great addition would be the use of tire softner for all race teams. It would cut the costs down on tires, you just wouldn't need as many. Remember the late 90's when they turned a blind eye to the use of it? It was some of the best racing I've seen there. If they can lower the cost of tires to a respectable number, and allow the use of softener to everyone, your car counts would go up and the costs to the teams would come down.
At the end of this little rant of ideas, I'd like to say Riverhead did a great job at getting the fans back in 2007. It's so close to getting back to where it was, there are just some things that need a little tweaking. I say thanks to the Cromarty's for making the commitment in 2008.

[rydogg97]

I think hollywoodmic is onto something here! Lots of good points made! But there still is 1 problem to implementing these ideas. It takes people hours, and that translates to paying to have this done, and they don't want to do this! I think in the long term, they would help themseves and there would be less problems across the board!

[j-rod]

An idea I have is, since the purses (that are severely low) aren't going to be raised, implement a 2 tire a week per car rule. Allow everyone a set opening night, then 2 a week after that. It's done at other tracks, and I assume it works well. That would lower everyone's weekly cost, and allow more cars to run more often. Just using the Late Models as an example- the winner gets $495 on a regular night, by spending about $295 less in tires, it's like adding that to each driver's payout. Now it's like getting $790 to win. This makes sense to me, anyone else???:help:

[Gravel]

No offense taken, Denise. I just wanted to point out what the officials go through every week. None of them are doing it for the money. We did[do] it because we love the sport.

[hollywoodmic]

JRod It makes plenty of sense if they let you use tire softner. How are they going to police it?? How is someone not going to buy tires for their "backup" car. It is a great idea, but policing it will be the problem.

I also thought, and hear me out, add weight to the Late Models and let them run with the Chargers. They ruined the Charger division 8 - 9 years ago. The Grand Enduros are what Charger cars should really be. If you merge the two divisions, you'll have a little over a full field of cars combine the purse and now you're racing for some money and with more that 15 cars. I'm sure you'd have to do more to the Late Models than add weight, but it's a start while you're at call them Pro Stocks. Remember the 8 cylinder Figure 8 cars used to race against the 6 cylinders. It could work, with a little work.

[LongIslandJam]

hollywoodmic,

Interesting points...

Merging the Late Models and Chargers is inevitable. Mountain Speedway has basically done it, and successfully with Late Models taking checkers and a former Pro Stock (their former version of a Charger) take a win.

Tires could be marked for a tire rule and sales monitored. Tires can't be purchased in advance.

My question is, how does tire softener increase the life of tires? It makes them softer and burn up quicker from my understanding, thus needing more tires.

There's a growing philosophy out there to have harder tires, so drivers can learn how to race, rather than how to spend. Harder tires will slow down the race cars and making them racy. The faster the cars get, the harder its to pass.

[W. J.]

To add to JA's thoughts: harder tires last longer, so less money spent on tires equals more money for other expenses.

[Jaws]

An idea I have is, since the purses (that are severely low) aren't going to be raised, implement a 2 tire a week per car rule. Allow everyone a set opening night, then 2 a week after that. It's done at other tracks, and I assume it works well. That would lower everyone's weekly cost, and allow more cars to run more often. Just using the Late Models as an example- the winner gets $495 on a regular night, by spending about $295 less in tires, it's like adding that to each driver's payout. Now it's like getting $790 to win. This makes sense to me, anyone else???:help:

How about getting the tire situation price wise under control.

Forget adding costs to the tires for the point fund, get tires that are less money and get the cars that are sitting idle back to the track.

Maybe open it up to other tires. The whole order your tires ahead of time was crazy last year. If I was a part timer, I would go to Riverhead even less or go somewhere else (And I see others who race other places feel the same way).

[Jaws]

JRod It makes plenty of sense if they let you use tire softner. How are they going to police it?? How is someone not going to buy tires for their "backup" car. It is a great idea, but policing it will be the problem.

I also thought, and hear me out, add weight to the Late Models and let them run with the Chargers. They ruined the Charger division 8 - 9 years ago. The Grand Enduros are what Charger cars should really be. If you merge the two divisions, you'll have a little over a full field of cars combine the purse and now you're racing for some money and with more that 15 cars. I'm sure you'd have to do more to the Late Models than add weight, but it's a start while you're at call them Pro Stocks. Remember the 8 cylinder Figure 8 cars used to race against the 6 cylinders. It could work, with a little work.

Kenny Alfano ran a Charger motor in his car a few years ago and did OK, It is a move that would make both classes more interesting.

It would also help the trucks as some of the Charger cars may switch to trucks. 4 full classes and figure 8's would be plenty each week and maybe even start a little later so we race more races after dark and you don't have to get to the track at 4:40 to see the full show.

[Tower Man]

Most of us, me included, do it for the love of the sport. As I have been doing for over 30 years.

As to getting people in for free...in my day, the promotors allowed us two without any problem. If you had a special circumstance and asked you could get more in if needed.

Most of the officials paid full price at the concession stands. And as Gravel stated, we were fed by the teams. Billy D always bought pizza or heros from B & G Deli. Father Dan used to bring a trunk load of sandwiches for the officials. The guys in tech, with Fred Bob would bar-b-que. And yes, we bought a NASCAR license at our expense.

Hobbies are expensive. Golf, fishing, bowling, sky diving, even gardening. No matter what you do cost money. And after a round of golf, or a day out on the boat, or after 3 tough games of bowling...no one is paying me. But I was paid when I raced and paid taxes on the money. The IRS called it a profession. My accountant called it a profession.

I guess it's all how you approach it.

[hollywoodmic]

JA the tire softner would be used after you put 50 laps on your tires so you can get at least another heat race and feature out of them. If guys want to soak from the get go, the tires will not last as long, but man will they pass some cars. As for hard tires, let me know how you make out in the first 3-4 weeks, when we tear up so many cars because we can't get heat in the tires.

[intense1]

OK here are some ideas:


Another great addition would be the use of tire softner for all race teams. It would cut the costs down on tires, you just wouldn't need as many. Remember the late 90's when they turned a blind eye to the use of it? It was some of the best racing I've seen there. If they can lower the cost of tires to a respectable number, and allow the use of softener to everyone, your car counts would go up and the costs to the teams would come down.


How about...soaking the track, instead.
Applying VHT track bite...like we do here at Mountain Speedway.

[hollywoodmic]

Intense will that lengthen the life of the tire??

[RGeeProductions]

Probably not Steve.
It would add more bite, which would be more wear. So you could use a harder tire.
To me, I don't understand why a track would do this. It is up to the driver/team to get a grip of the track they run and if this helps all across the board, what's the difference if it wasn't used?
It would still be the same level of racing, but with added cost to the track.
Am I making sense here?!?!? LOL

[intense1]

RGee,
It's about putting on a show. It promotes side by side racing and that's what the fans want. Mountain Mods run the 1320/1330 Hoosier which is an economy tire. Compound is the same as the M-20/30s, but with a different sidewall. $568 for four tires.
Why soak tires?...the track does it for you.
As for the driver/team be responsible for set-up...tires will make any car fast for so many laps, but the better set ups, will get better tire wear.

[modprincess8x]

It is much better when Mountain soaks the track- better outside groove.

[RGeeProductions]

I got it.
If it helps for 2 lanes of racing, that's better than a softer tire which would wear out quicker.

[nascar071]

I thought this thread was about the attendance not soaking tires

[hollywoodmic]

Ronnie you have to read all of the posts, it turned into how to improve racing, to improve the facility to make more people come out. Thus helping the attendance.

[KickItUp]

I am going to say it again.. I do so because I know a ton of folks who can only make it out to the races once a month or so, most even less than that. Why do they not come out? It isn't the racing, the extra curricular stuff, it isn't becuase of fights or wrecks.. It is because they cannot afford to. Those are their only reasons..

I do believe there are some who may not come out any longer because of recent events, but I believe most and a lot more fans do not come because it is a lot of money to shell out WEEKLY, for a typical struggling middle class Long Island family..

If going to the races was affordable weekly entertainment, the place would be packed.. It would be one place fans and families can go to all the time, and still be able to pay their bills.. Instead, most have to stay home instead of going anywhere at all. Riverhead should cater to those folks, make it a place they can go every week, something to look forward to doing, knowing you get to enjoy life on LI. Make it a place folks can go and spend their summers doing.. It will only help the racing community..

[modprincess8x]

I agree with you Kick-It, but you also need the quality of racing to improve to keep drivers at the track. It may/may not be the reason the fans are or aren't there, but it's the reason the drivers are leaving. You don't need fans in the seats if there are no drivers on the track.

[J.D.]

Kick It, I agree with you 100%, It is the cost that's keeping people away. Especially Families.