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DriveitinDeep
10-10-2007, 01:07 PM
If you look at the number of drivers who reserved numbers for 2007 it adds up to over 30.
Pretty much only the same 12 or so drivers showed up every week to race. I am including the 01 whose driver came from down South most weeks. Some came out ocassionally like the 68, 35 and maybe once or twice for the 91 & 4. That leaves a whole lot of cars that never made it to the track, let alone race.
Why bother with getting numbers every year if you're going to sit home season after season? If you guys don't come out in force next year, you might as well put your cars on your front lawn and plant geraniums in them, as you won't have a place to run them on the Island.
I know money and time are a major major issue, but at least make an attempt.
What once was a great division and had some of the best racing around has................... Hey Mac (60x) why don't you come back and help save the division that you help build. We could use you.

RT-01
10-10-2007, 02:37 PM
It's tough for a lot of people to get the sponsor $$$ they need to be competative. Sure they can bring their cars to the track each week, but without big $$$ sponsors, they can't run in the front. $550 tires-$50 fuel-$30 entry, that's $630.00 a week minimum. I believe first place only pays $525.00. Something has to done about that, it's crazy. I know racing is an expensive hobby, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. All the other tracks are making it affordable for their drivers to race, why can't ours? Besides, the way half of the drivers were treating the cars out there this year, who would want to bring their car out? LOTS AND LOTS of foolish driving resulted in a lot of wrecked racecars. CARELESS!!! With the car count the way it was, there should have hardly even been a caution per race, but instead leaders were dumped and cars were destroyed for absolutely NO REASON. You take a division with all the talented drivers like we have and can't go 3 laps without a caution-that's pathetic.

j-rod
10-10-2007, 03:56 PM
$495 to win by the way. I suggested somewhere else on here an idea to only allow each car 2 tires a week after opening night where you would buy 4. Just by doing that it's like adding $290 or so to every finishing spot(cost of 2 tires). Whether everyone's on 2 tires or 4, what's the difference? This would save everyone a lot of cash. It's done at other tracks, and I assume it works. What driver wouldn't be for this??

An Observer
10-10-2007, 07:49 PM
Roger- Glad you made it back from China! Time passes on my Friend. We feel your frustration. Good Luck with the new car. Regards. $ is a MAJOR issue.

top row crew
10-10-2007, 09:57 PM
I remember looking foward to the Late Models, they would put on a better show than mods some weeks.

Tower Man
10-11-2007, 06:20 AM
12 cars in the feature. I remember heat races with more than 12 cars.

LongIslandJam
10-11-2007, 07:12 AM
The Late Models have quite a few issues. A lot of late models just sitting.

This is truly a beautiful class and the racing can be awesome. It wasn't until a few years ago that they would run a 50-lap feature in as little as 11+ minutes. That's right, 11 minutes, I timed it.

Tire cost is a huge factor for a LM team. I've seen teams put two sets of tires on a night. The average LM team can't meet that.

A tire rule would be welcomed. 2 tires a night. Wait, do I hear the tire guy cringing and reaching for the phone to call me. Wait, this could work. Let's do some numbers.

Currently, 11 cars, with probably 8 taking 4 tires a night = 32.

2 Tire a night rule instituted, and let's say that brings out 5 new cars.
So we got 16 cars, with 2 tires each, that's 32 tires.

I think we got our, in business terms, our break even point. Takes 5 more cars to make it work. My figures may be off, but I could be right on the money.

Next, the nonsense in the Late Models has got to stop. The class is an embarrassment to racing. All the drivers trying to crash each other doesn't work. Yes, rubbing is racing, and yes sometimes two drivers will try to go for the same piece of real estate. However, when it becomes deliberate or the driver a constant problem, its time to put the driver in the time out box. So you lose one driver, well you pick up more that know they can be on an even playing field and no nonsense is tolerated.

However, as a class the LM's need to work together, as its apparent everyone is on their own and this hurts the class more. Its been this way awhile, but its the only way this class will improve, by putting the late model drivers together and coming up with plans for a better future.

We could have a great class, we just need to put the class into the class and make it easier for rookie drivers to move up.

Just my two cents,

DriveitinDeep
10-11-2007, 09:49 AM
Could you please clarify the particular nonsense for me as it pertains to the class? I don't think there is any driver out there that is causing these so called problems intentionally. Yes, we could use more black flags and some consistant calls by the officals, that would help a great deal.
As for the costs, they are totally out of hand. The tires, the motors etc. all for the same purse as 20 years a go. I mean that for the LM's down to the Blunderbusts. That doesn't make the most sense.
2 tires a night might make a whole lot of sense to start with, and adjust it from there. Spec motors might be the way to go. Other suggestions would be appreciated as we could put some of these ideas together for the powers at be. We have nothing to loose except more money by not doing anything.
Anyway JA, I look forward to your response.
Clay, I haven't gone to China yet. Leaving on Tuesday, but thanks for the words anyway.

Late Model drivers & owners, let's all get together sometime in Nov. to discuss our future. Any thoughts??

LongIslandJam
10-11-2007, 10:55 AM
The nonsense mainly results from the Late Models, as a class, forgetting about the most important thing in racing... The beer and food after the races. That's right, the beer and food, the best part in racing. Whatever happens on the track should stay on the track. Yes we can get angry, and yes we can say a word or two, but it should end there and let the party begin. Racing should be fun, and we forget that at times.

I'm a little reluctant to make a bold statement such as going to spec motors. There's pros and cons to that. Crate motors are great, but then all the late model guys that got the built motors need to ditch their motor and spend more money to buy a crate motor. A lot of series, such as MAARA in Western NY, are going to a set of rules which allows both crate and spec. That could be a way to go, but I'm not sure if the initial cost is driving people away. For most, its the weekly cost that hurts them. JMO.

Either way, I think a Late Model get-together would be a great idea to do. It would build camaraderie and everyone can discuss what they feel, in hopefully a positive perspective.

catfish
10-11-2007, 11:06 AM
Spec or Crate motors could be phased in over several seasons, with a weight break going to those using one. That would help with guys with fairly new motors, say you may use until, for example, 2010 then they are out for good.

DriveitinDeep
10-11-2007, 11:13 AM
Thanks for the clarification JA.
Good luck with Nelma show next weekend. I truly hope is goes smoothly with a great showing from the guys from LI.

310fig8
10-11-2007, 12:33 PM
My suggestion would be to combine the Late Models with the Chargers and cut the rules somewhere in between and combine the purse.

spabler
10-11-2007, 04:36 PM
Great Idea, give the Chargers some inexpensive bolt on parts to the motor (MSD...INTAKE....Better flowing "unaltered" after market heads) and chassis (Hubs and spindles, Brakes, Trailing arms......) then add weight to or restrict the motors in the Late Models. Perhaps go to a cheaper, harder common size tire, also. If they do this, they can call the Grand Enduros the new Charger division, they are just like the cars we ran 15 years ago as the run now.

vsmidge68
10-11-2007, 05:35 PM
I've been reading the posts here and I have to say everyone brings up valid points. We decided to stay local and run at Riverhead this year in the BB instead of making the trip to Mountain weekly. We thought we'd save some $$$ but after doing the math we saved about $40.00 per week. Yes, that includes tolls and gas in the "beast". The prices of tires and fuel alone cost more than that per week. It cost us $330.00 for a set of tires there, that includes mounting and a tip. We got a flat every week in the heat race @ Riverhead, no matter what tires we had on the car. A set of BB tires here is $432.00. Fuel is $6.50 per gallon there and here it is $8.00. (for purple) When we finished 16th there, we got $30.00. When we finished 3rd here we got $45.00. That didn't pay for fuel for the night. We looked into sponsoring a race a few years ago and the amount of money they wanted seemed reasonable, until we found out that hardly any of the money went into the actual purse. I'm not sure where it was supposed to go, but it sure wasn't to the drivers. It's all about the $$$. I know it's a business, but you guys are putting on the show and are getting no real respect. I'm not trying to make anyone go to Mountain.
What I am trying to say is no matter what the drivers do or say, it's the responsibility of the owners of the track to make people want to race here. I've heard all about the love of the track and drivers from the Cromartys that I can stand. It's time for you all (I mean all divisions) to go to them as a group, or choose someone from each division to represent you, and let them know it's not worth it. Many times this year, I've heard they don't seem to know what is going on. (I don't know what they do in their office) It's been said that no one ever tells them anything. Well, if you tell them yourselves, that excuse would be out the window. The inconsistant officiating this year can be largely attributed to the new boys being sent in mid-season. Fine, that excuse is also out the window. (Now that they've driven figure 8 cars, they are drivers..lol.)
While you are in there, tell them to reach into their pockets and pay for some real security, or to have some type of police presence. I've never heard of the garbage that went on in the pits this year being tolerated at tracks that have proper policing. As far as "leveling" the playing field, you all know that is not going to happen. Having the edge has been and always will be a part of racing, and no matter what rules are changed or rearranged, someone is going to have more $$$ for R & D than the other guy. I think the angle you need to go with begins in the head office. I'm not bashing Riverhead. I grew up here and have a lot of memories of the old place... I hate to see it self destruct like this....As usual JMO

rydogg97
10-11-2007, 06:36 PM
Right to the point!!! Well written!!!

An Observer
10-13-2007, 11:22 PM
Yup.The truth be told.

smiley27414
10-16-2007, 10:32 AM
Maybe if they didn't let some people get a way with things, they would have more cars!!!

Tower Man
10-16-2007, 01:45 PM
We created this problem. We all knew what the purse was and we all bought and spent like no tomorrow. Then we cry that we need a bigger purse.

I have been involved in every division at Riverhead, with the exception of the Legends, and it's the same all the way around. Tires, fuel, pit fees, etc...

We all look for rules loop holes. We find them, we pay and then every one else follows. Then a rule is created to accept or eliminate the rule. We complain about cost, but think nothing of spending $10,000 or more on a trailer, in some cases, to drive 15 minutes.

What we need to do is market ourselves and not depend on the track to do it for us.

If you were a golfer, would you expect the golf course to help cover your expenses? Does a bowling alley cover a bowler's expenses? How about a boater?

We race for fun. We chose this HOBBY. Maybe it's time we stop bashing the last remaining race track on Long Island. Maybe we should stop saying what the track should do for us and start doing for ourselves.

LongIslandJam
10-16-2007, 03:23 PM
You hit the nail on the head Joe,

In some forms of motorsports, there's no purse, AND you pay an entry fee. We short trackers should consider ourselves lucky that most short tracks pay a purse still.