You think we have car count problems on LI, look at these counts ?

[Jaws]

Spencer Speedway.

Car Counts:

Super 6's: six cylinder mini stocks 8

Street stocks: 6

SST Mods: 21, including 1 non regular.

The Super 6's and Street Stocks looked awfully loonly spread out around the big 1/2 mile.

The only bright side was I think 1 caution.

Thats a regular Friday night field, John White really has some work cut out for him.

[Mike McCormack]

Economy/fuel costs, and Nascar running on Saturday mights are killing
short track racing.

Myrtle Beach Speedway, Myrtle Beach SC

Saturday 7/12

Late models off this week, last week 8 cars

Limited Late models 9

Mini-stock 12

Street Stock 5


Racing Fuel $ 8.25 gal

Used scuffs mounted $ 144.00

[CJfilms]

Sounds like the economy is really hurting the hobbies of America...we'll pull through it eventually, it's just too bad that OUR sport is the sport most intertwined with the economic problems... I just can't see a field of hybrids or electric cars running around any speedway. Yeah, you would be able to hear the announcer with NO problem, but where would the roar of the motors be??? WHOOSH!!!!

Car counts killing you? Race an enduro! Even with this economy the way it is, Big Diamond had a huge field last night and the NEETS race at Grandview Speedway this Sunday already has 60 registered cars! 60 Cars racing 2 divisions...AND THAT'S NOT COUNTING TRUX!!!! Enduro is the cheapest form of racing and we intend to keep it that way!

This race will be worth the ride even from the other side of the Toll Curtain up to the HILL!!!

Come on out and bring your family, it's going to be a blast!!!

[Golf Guy]

Economy is hurting many fuel driven outdoor activities. Anyone been out on the water/GS Bay recently. Two - three years ago it was bumper boats now you can pretty much cruise anywhere hassle free...

[randomrodder]

Heck, Forten won Sat. night and I couldn't help but think, that's my car there, been buy oil off of him for the passed 25 years or so. Getting some today, I don't think I'll be doing much cruising in my Nova this season. :mad:

Don't get me wrong, I know it's not John's fault for the cost of fuel oil, was venting.

[Captain History]

The Spencer Super Six class has had a season high (and in its 2 1/2 year history) of 11 cars last month.
The Street Stock class indeed has bigger issues, and the crate engine entering the equation has turned some drivers away from the track among other reasons. The numbers have gone down in the past few years for the division.

[Jaws]

The Spencer Super Six class has had a season high (and in its 2 1/2 year history) of 11 cars last month.
The Street Stock class indeed has bigger issues, and the crate engine entering the equation has turned some drivers away from the track among other reasons. The numbers have gone down in the past few years for the division.


I hope they can or replace the Street stocks with a class that can grow, those 6 cars looked awfully lonely out there.

[WEEZER]

On a positive note, how about those TWENTY FIVE GRAND ENDURO'S this past saturday night at Riverhead, 50 laps non stop great racing!!!

[Jaws]

With car counts like the grands, maybe they should be a weekly series, or just have more dates.

[The Bullfather]

Part of the reason for the Grands was to keep cost down and not race weekly. They kicked around the idea of racing one a month of Saturday Night, but that would leave them racing every other week, so twice a month might still be too much for some the regulars. I'd love to see them race one a month with the big boys of Saturday Night. Many great drivers in that division, and some are cleaner then our regular divisions in looks!

[LongIslandJam]

Street Stocks are down at just about every track I know of. Street Stocks were meant to be an entry-level class. But unfortunately, they have evolved into a late model stock. The division's usefulness as an entry-level division has passed. The trick for all promoters is to find the new division to get the fan in the stand back on the track. The super sixes are a close answer but need time to grow.

[RovinPromotions]

It has been a long time since i witnessed an enjoyable clean race.Last saturday's GRAND ENDURO was the race for me. nice job guys:wave:

[310fig8]

As J. A. Pointed out the Street Stocks are supposed to be entry level just like the Figure 8s were back in the 60s and 70s. The idea was to have "STOCK CARS" with some safety added in and keep the cost down. Back in the early day of Figure 8s, as has been pointed out on here many times, the car counts were in the 60s and 70s to qualify 24 for the Feature. Larry Mendelsohn did a great job keeping these cars STOCK. The drivers and owners would ask if they can do this and that and Larry said NO. After Larry passed away the new promoters thru the years kept allowing more and more. The cost went up...The car counts went down. My first Figure 8 car was purchased for $450. I won 2 qualifying races with it the first year. The Feature paid $250 to win.
Now the cars cost ... (Enter ridiculous amount here)... and the Features pay about $450 to win. The balance is way off. The Enduros are a great thing, as long as the cars STAY STOCK, for people that want to get into racing. Another problem I see with car counts are too many divisions, Islip did it each week with 2 divisions, The Modified/Sportsmen and the Figure 8s. There were plenty of cars in each. The stands were always full. Every once in a while they brought in the ARDC Midgets, The Joie Chitwood Hell Drivers, Fireworks and a Demolition Derby. The Heats started at 7:30 the show was over at 11. I'm not saying this will work as well today, but I think 2 or 3 divisions with full fields would be a better show for the fans and drivers than 7watered down divisions. I am not trying to step on anyones feet here or knock anyone at all. Just expressing an opinion.

[Jaws]

I could nat have said it better.

4 Divisions would work great at Riverhead, what 4 you pick.

Most tracks should have 3:

A top class like Mods or Late Models
Middle class, Chargers or Trucks.
Starter Division Street Stocks or a Mini stock class.

Add a touring divison or special each week, you start at 7:00 and finish by 11:00.

Keep the rules tight, pay a decent amount be fair to all the drivers and teams.

Oh and cut down on the endless hours of practice to save teams money, 1 or 2 short times on the track to shake down the car and go racing.

[unowho243]

i like having the different variety of divisions i think 3 or 4 divisions a night would suck personally

[SuperShafts]

The trick for all promoters is to find the new division to get the fan in the stand back on the track.


The idea is to keep it to what the fan can relate to...

Real stock , real driven street is where it's at, every form of racing that has that class has the best fan base.


Nascar had it.... even they dropped the ball

[btgoss]

A few months ago talk of dropping divisions was a crime punishable by death, well at least nasty name calling. Now it seems like it is something that is being given more consideration. I think it is time, since this little recession we are having is not going to end anytime soon.

The point about making the entry division something the "average" fan in the stand would want to race is a valid point. To that end if a big re-organization of the divisions should even happen, a 4 cylinder pure stock type car would be the best choice for that starter division. It is something that many people actually drive, and it can serve as a way of getting the younger crowd who may be more into the "tuner" set into oval track racing. But that can be a thread by itself.

I also wanted to comment on some of the things said about Islip and Larry Mendelsohn. I agree, he was perhaps the best promotor ever. There will never be another like him, and his time running Islip is truly the "Golden Age." of Long Island racing.
However.
During the peak of the first oil crisis, Islip had major troubles getting full fields of Modifieds. It wasn't until after Freeport dropped the Modifieds that the division returned to it's place as a true top tier class on the island. I remember, although I was very young, many night that Islip couldn't put out a full field of Modifieds for the feature. Sure there was 10-12 great cars, but the other 6-7 really didn't amount to much more then a rolling chicane. So many of the things that he did to put fannies in the seats had been done because the actual racing was not what it had been. For those of us who remember the early 70's it wasn't always such a fun filled time. We had gas rationing, high inflation, high un-employment, and were still recovering from the sting of the Vietnam war.

So while no one loves to recall the good times more then me, we have to realistic about it. They weren't all good, and there is alot we forget. I remember one of the last true All Star 300's didn't really have such a great turn out of cars, and the National Demo derby was another victim of low turn out (compared to events past.)

So.

There will come a time when divisions have to change, it is the way things happen. I think the drivers need to get together and make the changes so that they are not left being shut out ( like the mini-modifieds).

I still think a staged joining of the Late Models and Chargers into a new Late Model Stock (Limited Late Model) class is a great start, but that is just my opinion.

Add to that a Modified headliner (running an SK/SST type car), the Limited Late Models, and a 4 cylinder street stock/bomber class. With regular appearances by the Legends and a Figure 8 class that is more like a current Blunderbust then the Late Models that they run now and you would have a heck of a show.

I would also like to add a non-drinking and non-smoking Family section, the elimination of all short pants and shirts from the pits, elimination from the pits of all people who aren't racing or turning a wrench...and what else... no beer sales after 8pm.... is there anything I left out? :)
I got one... Pit side grills cannot start until the last race ends...
No coolers.
I could go on and on...

[Dwight Clock]

I post this as an historical note, nothing more or less. To the best of my knowledge the lowest total car count any Long Island track ever had for a regular show was 10. A 1965 Sunday afternoon program at Westhampton Speedway drew a total of 10 cars - 6 Novice and 4 Modifieds. And 43 fans, I know - I counted them myself!:)

[Jaws]

A few months ago talk of dropping divisions was a crime punishable by death, well at least nasty name calling. Now it seems like it is something that is being given more consideration. I think it is time, since this little recession we are having is not going to end anytime soon.

The point about making the entry division something the "average" fan in the stand would want to race is a valid point. To that end if a big re-organization of the divisions should even happen, a 4 cylinder pure stock type car would be the best choice for that starter division. It is something that many people actually drive, and it can serve as a way of getting the younger crowd who may be more into the "tuner" set into oval track racing. But that can be a thread by itself.

I also wanted to comment on some of the things said about Islip and Larry Mendelsohn. I agree, he was perhaps the best promotor ever. There will never be another like him, and his time running Islip is truly the "Golden Age." of Long Island racing.
However.
During the peak of the first oil crisis, Islip had major troubles getting full fields of Modifieds. It wasn't until after Freeport dropped the Modifieds that the division returned to it's place as a true top tier class on the island. I remember, although I was very young, many night that Islip couldn't put out a full field of Modifieds for the feature. Sure there was 10-12 great cars, but the other 6-7 really didn't amount to much more then a rolling chicane. So many of the things that he did to put fannies in the seats had been done because the actual racing was not what it had been. For those of us who remember the early 70's it wasn't always such a fun filled time. We had gas rationing, high inflation, high un-employment, and were still recovering from the sting of the Vietnam war.

So while no one loves to recall the good times more then me, we have to realistic about it. They weren't all good, and there is alot we forget. I remember one of the last true All Star 300's didn't really have such a great turn out of cars, and the National Demo derby was another victim of low turn out (compared to events past.)

So.

There will come a time when divisions have to change, it is the way things happen. I think the drivers need to get together and make the changes so that they are not left being shut out ( like the mini-modifieds).

I still think a staged joining of the Late Models and Chargers into a new Late Model Stock (Limited Late Model) class is a great start, but that is just my opinion.

Add to that a Modified headliner (running an SK/SST type car), the Limited Late Models, and a 4 cylinder street stock/bomber class. With regular appearances by the Legends and a Figure 8 class that is more like a current Blunderbust then the Late Models that they run now and you would have a heck of a show.

I would also like to add a non-drinking and non-smoking Family section, the elimination of all short pants and shirts from the pits, elimination from the pits of all people who aren't racing or turning a wrench...and what else... no beer sales after 8pm.... is there anything I left out? :)
I got one... Pit side grills cannot start until the last race ends...
No coolers.
I could go on and on...

BT I agree with some things you say, I think the Limited late Model class would solve a few peoblems, but adding an SK class and a 4 cylinder clas at the same time would be too much change and piss off too many teams.

Right now 3 divisions are having the toughest time, LM, Chargers and figure 8's. They all need help.

3 divisions are hanging in there. THe Blunderbust (Which should have been a Strictly stock division from the beggining or the equivilent of the Grand Enduro's) are doing OK, The mods have been holding steady at 20 cars, the trucks have grown this year when everyone else has struggled to get new cars and the legends have had a steady 20 or so cars.

Thats 2 pretty muuch full fields at 1 track, much more than a lot of tracks can claim.

BT, the reason Islip lost so many mods may have partly been due to the gas crunch but it was Freeport switching to Sat night and taking a bunch of the good mods by offering I believe $1,500.00 to win.

When they lost a bunch of money because of a ton of rain outs the second or 3rd year of Sat nights they dropped the mods and made the Late Models the headliners. Most of the the mods came back to Islip.

And speaking of Westhampton(now a nice little developement) Dwight did you ever hit 4 mods races at 4 tracks in the same week on LI? Wed Riverhead, Friday Freeport, Sat Islip and Sunday afternoon? I believe (And Dwight you would remember better than me) Wasn't there 1 week when they had 3 or 4 100 lappers 1 at each track?

Ah memories.

[randomrodder]

And speaking of Westhampton(now a nice little developement) Dwight did you ever hit 4 mods races at 4 tracks in the same week on LI? Wed Riverhead, Friday Freeport, Sat Islip and Sunday afternoon? I believe (And Dwight you would remember better than me) Wasn't there 1 week when they had 3 or 4 100 lappers 1 at each track?

Ah memories.

Weds/Sat Islip. Fri/RR. Sun/Freeport
Can't recall 4 100 lappers

That's how I recall it.

[Dwight Clock]

Jaws is referring to the mid 70's when Vinnie Morabito ran Riverhead and called it Vimco Speedway. I don't recall making 4 races in one week on L.I. Freeport (under the Campis) had a Sunday afternoon rain date for the Friday night show for a while, though. I did once make 11 races in ten days back east. And I have had a stretch here in Indiana where I went to races thirteen consecutive days.:)

[leah28racing]

some people just don't have the money anymore. price of everything is so high..

It's costing more and more to get in and to get there. but the purse has not gone up in years. That's the biggest complaint. That's why some drivers decided to pack it up and just stay home.
What about more races. I think every division is just off way to much. Some nights end so early. we could have gotten more divisions in. More cars=better show and less money to get in=alot more people in the stands.more people in the stands=more moneyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy:)

[SuperShafts]

some people just don't have the money anymore. price of everything is so high..



This is some peoples complaint, along with finding a car for use in particular fields.


It's costing more and more to get in and to get there. but the purse has not gone up in years. That's the biggest complaint. That's why some drivers decided to pack it up and just stay home.


There not staying home, there at tracks with better pay outs...

You could go to a track, further away, and come in 8th and take home more then the 2nd pl car here...



What about more races. I think every division is just off way to much. Some nights end so early. we could have gotten more divisions in. More cars=better show and less money to get in=alot more people in the stands.more people in the stands=more moneyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy


How can you have more races, there are nights there are more caution laps run then race laps, some nights end early because things actually went right.
More cars doesn't usually = better anything, unless it's racing demolition..

As for more cars = better show = less money to get in... For me to answer that i would need to see the tracks overhead... with having a business closed close to half a year taking in 0 i don't see how prices can go down while other bills are piling up.
That usually = you need to charge more money or squeeze in more , but with a 28 day window, you can't squeeze in more... you better call the town of rhvd and ***** if you want cheaper prices to get in...

That fault is with them and not the track, so direct that complaint to local wonderful clueless govt at work screwing you and just eagerly waiting to take another track away

[btgoss]

Wow... I can't believe I agree but...sheesh more divisions? What would be the cut off? If you can have a heat's worht of cars (let's say 8) then you can have some time on the track?

Bad idea.

The races at Riverhead need to start at 7:30pm (heats) and end at 11pm.
In that time, you can deal with 3-4 divisions, still have an intermission, and cover all of your bases.

Again, we fondly remember the old times. This was how it was done back then.

Yes, more cars would be a great thing. But more classes is not. Riverhead is a back gate track this is true, but I do not think you can sustain that business model for very long, or at least when the economy is in the toilet. Eventually the front gate is going to have to more then just your profit, so you need to bring people in. Racetracks do that by having good racing, not be having 15 slightly different types of racing.

I would like to mention something. My company had it's night at the Duck game tonight. The place was very full, food was just as expensive as Riverhead, the game sucked but people still had fun. That physical plant is what we need for a track in our area. I think those who have the money need to rethink what they want, and really make an attractive offer to some of these town, and I think it could happen.

A 1/3 mile flat track, stadium seating, and the place can be used for high school sports when not in racing trim. Something along the lines of a modern Bowman Grey Stadium, and I think you would have something. But that is way off topic for this thread.

[SuperShafts]

I would like to mention something. My company had it's night at the Duck game tonight. The place was very full, food was just as expensive as Riverhead, the game sucked but people still had fun. That physical plant is what we need for a track in our area. I think those who have the money need to rethink what they want, and really make an attractive offer to some of these town, and I think it could happen.




How many times? in how many different areas do you think that attractive offer was made? with many other attractive venues inside...? ? ?

Whenever they were made all the motorsports community seen was the motorsports side of it, all the people that had no clue only seen there bigoted racist views, and the towns and or corrupt govt had no clue even after being very well educated on the economic side of it because they viewed the motorsports community with racist and bigoted views and never got past that side of it to see the other venues in the attractive offer.

[LongIslandJam]

While a good venue is helpful, there's plenty of tracks that pack it in with OK facilities. Anybody go to Thunder Road? It's not a palace, but they know how to pack it in. There's countless examples of that across the country.

[randomrodder]

I go to the track and look around and see families there. I recall when my kids were toddlers and we'd take them to Islip then later to Islip and Riverhead with an occassional Freeport tossed in. I look now and say, How can they afford it? If I had to pay for four people and then feed them at the track weekly, there's no way I could do it today.
I understand the costs of running a racing facility and paying out the purse plus all the liability insurance and trash removal, not to mention salaries and all the other costs many don't even think about. But you've got to admit with the price of gas, food stuff, fuel oil and eveything else going up. It's getting harder and harder for young and middle age families to make the trek to RR every week. Then when you throw in all the bickering and other BS going on on track, people just say, we've got to find something else.
I sure would love to see the stands filled to standing room only capacity again and I hope to see those days come back. I think the number of classes are fine the way they are. It's a shame so many cars are sitting in garages, shops and backyards because drivers can't afford to run them, for the same reasons plus, as those mentioned above.
I didn't stay for the 4 cyclinder enduros because the smoke was bothering my condition. But, they didn't have a problem filling the field and I noticed all the fans those cars brought in.
Maybe old school racing is the way to go. Home built cars with an engine claim rule. Go back to building your own chassis' and engines. No more Troyer builts, etc. Yeah, you can say to me, how about all of us with these cars? You know what that would cost us? Well, do you know what it would cost you if the track shut down because no one came out to watch you race because it's boring as heck?
I know there is no easy solution to the problems we face, they are tantamont in our everyday lives. I'd love to see the Figure 8 cars go back to stock chassis and 6 cyclinder engines. I know straight 6s are harder to find but they are out there. How about V6s? How many remember the number of Fig 8 cars in attendence on any given race night at RR, Islip or Freeport. Where have they gone?
Street STOCK, what happened? Come on, get the cost down on racing, watch the car count go up and the fans come back in.
Yeah, other tracks have lower car counts and larger crowds. Remember one thing. This is Long Island, you can't compare it to anywhere else.
Rant over. Now none of the drivers will talk to me in the pits anymore. :(

[btgoss]

SuperShafts we are very close to getting this thread killed, but while I know that offer have been made, my understanding is that they have been offers for large facilities. A large racing venue, even part of a multi-use motorsports park is not going to be an easy sell.

A smaller track, say a 1/3 mile tri-oval, surrounded by a very nice Stadium, is something I think could be sold. It could be re-configured to support football and basebal, as well as racing. Offer a town something like that, and I think you would have something. But that is just my opinion.

[The Bullfather]

He can't offer anything to the town, he wasn't the person with the deal on the table that was turned down. Scott Rechler was the person, we just supported his efforts for it. This thread is about car counts, with prices of gas and racing fuel, we still have some good numbers. Some divisions better then others, think with divisions off, the fields and pits look less then what they are!

[W. J.]

Well said, Randomrodder. You made some very good points. Now to get someone to listen (sigh!).

[catfish]

You are correct WJ "get someone to listen" unfortunately they are yet to listen because the young and middle class families cannot afford to LIVE here let alone spend hard earned dollars an entertainment. And that is the whole basis of the problem and reason why the sport is in trouble on the island.

[CJfilms]

Not to get off subject here...but...

JA, can I elect this thread for the most quotes? Take a look at page #2, Supershafts actually quoted 3 people in one reply!!! :applause::applause::applause: Way to go!

[SuperShafts]

SuperShafts we are very close to getting this thread killed, but while I know that offer have been made, my understanding is that they have been offers for large facilities. A large racing venue, even part of a multi-use motorsports park is not going to be an easy sell.

A smaller track, say a 1/3 mile tri-oval, surrounded by a very nice Stadium, is something I think could be sold. It could be re-configured to support football and basebal, as well as racing. Offer a town something like that, and I think you would have something. But that is just my opinion.

Actually we did speak with a few different towns that had enough property to hold such a venue...some either had other options of malls for it or were just closed to what it would have been.
Thing is no one wants a 1 venue entertainment complex, in this day and age 1 venue doesn't work.
That's why it is a multi venue option, and even with the full motorsports complex, all of them still had every other out door sport and even festival/concert/stadium options.

We are still working though...

[leah28racing]

This is some peoples complaint, along with finding a car for use in particular fields.




There not staying home, there at tracks with better pay outs...

You could go to a track, further away, and come in 8th and take home more then the 2nd pl car here...





How can you have more races, there are nights there are more caution laps run then race laps, some nights end early because things actually went right.
More cars doesn't usually = better anything, unless it's racing demolition..

As for more cars = better show = less money to get in... For me to answer that i would need to see the tracks overhead... with having a business closed close to half a year taking in 0 i don't see how prices can go down while other bills are piling up.
That usually = you need to charge more money or squeeze in more , but with a 28 day window, you can't squeeze in more... you better call the town of rhvd and ***** if you want cheaper prices to get in...

That fault is with them and not the track, so direct that complaint to local wonderful clueless govt at work screwing you and just eagerly waiting to take another track away

With the national economy in limbo, and in an attempt to bring more race fans out to the speedway without emptying their pocketbooks, Mountain Speedway has decided to slash its general admission price.

“General admission to any regular show will be $10 for the rest of the season”, said Mountain promoter, Joe Callavini. The $10 price will be in place for everyone, age 11 and older. This also includes handicapped persons and seniors. As always, children 10 years of age and younger are admitted to the speedway for free.

wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww thats what i have been saying all along;)

[allhailunc]

you'll never see something like that at Riverhead