did i miss something?

[fastgal]

i could have sworn bill park was in the infield in turns 3-4 for a lap :confused: if he was do they change the finish? if the finish stands then i guess it would upset the guys behind him. this is not the first time there has been a issue with the scoring. if nascar is going to use transponders at riverhead why can't the regulars use it? atleast use it as a backup for the scorers.

[W. J.]

He was NOT in the infield for a lap, as yellow was thrown at the time of the incident. That means counting of laps stopped, and he remained on the same lap as the rest of the field, though at the back.

So yeah, I guess "you missed something..."

[nflobster]

i had to watch it a couple of times but i must say that the 20 did not complete lap 1. the caution was thrown when the leaders came off turn 2 on the second lap. lap one was completed and if you look at the scoreboard it also shows 1 lap on the restart. this can be big when it comes down to the championship.

[Tower Man]

From my vantage point in turn 4, the 20 spun on lap 1, between turns 3 & 4and sat there waiting for a caution The caution did not come out right away and the entire field completed lap 1. The entire field passed the 20 again and then the caution was displayed.

The field was relined and the race continued with one lap in the books. I was told it was announced on the radio, channel 461.2000 the 20 car was a lap down, having not completed lap one.

Did anyone question the finish?

I recall back in 2001, a finish was questioned the following week. Calls were made to NASCAR and 4 weeks later, John Fortin was stripped of 26 points due to the scoring error, on a very similar situation.

[greggforce01]

I saw the same - the 20 waited for a caution to come out and the entire field passed him. does that make him a lap down? The results shows him as finishing 6th. It doesn't appear that they put him a lap down; but shouldn't he be?:confused:

[mbgolfer]

The race is under protest!. But I dont think anything will change the finish.

[FERGBIZZ]

from what I remember the caution was thrown before the field passed the 20 and since caution laps don't count that would still put him on the lead lap...

now whether or not a 1 lap penalty for purposely bringing out the yellow should have been given...thats there call and they make it when they want

[The Bullfather]

Lucky Dog!?! Oh wait, nevermind! Hopefully we'll find out soon!

[debbie33]

If the race is or was under protest why did we get payoff? Doesn't that usually get held if there is a question about the finish? Please don't blast me for asking these questions I am just asking for personal knowledge not to knock anyone down.

[fastgal]

from what I remember the caution was thrown before the field passed the 20 and since caution laps don't count that would still put him on the lead lap...

now whether or not a 1 lap penalty for purposely bringing out the yellow should have been given...thats there call and they make it when they want

he never completed the first lap.

[Fat Albert]

The race is under protest!. But I dont think anything will change the finish.

The race is not under protest!
If no protest was made Saturday night within 20 minutes after the feature, it's too late. The 2008 NASCAR Whelen All-American Series Rule Book States - Page 21 - section 9-2: "Finality of race procedure decisions. All decisions by track officials at the track involving race procedures are final and non-appealable, subject only to review by NASCAR Supervisory officials. In making such a determination, the interest of finality in completion of the results will be a principle consideration. NASCAR supervisory officials will NOT review any race procedure decision unless it has been brought to their attention by an affected member within 20 MINUTES after the posting of the results of the race or the qualifying session at which the race procedure decision was first made."

To nflobster: I don't know where you are getting your facts from, but you are spreading false rumors. With regard to the carbon fiber clutch you allege they let him slide on a "few years ago", it was actually 1998. The penalty for that infraction was to have the win and points take away. The purse was approx.$1,500. Park had to forfeit the illicit clutch to NASCAR which had a $3,500 value...all on top of a suspension of 2 weeks. I hardly call that "letting him slide".

If you think the transmission or any other part is illegal on the 20 car, you don't have to protest. Buy him a new part and he will gladly swap it out for what is currently being used. For your information, his transmission is 11 years old (and legal).

It would be interesting to learn where you have acquired such inaccurate information that you take as gospel.

[Fat Albert]

he never completed the first lap. and if that car did have a hightower tranny in it it better be out for this weekend because the locals don't run the show; even though we are supposed to run "tour rules"

If you knew anything about transmissions you would know that a Hightower transmission is the old Borg Warner T-10 that is now manufactured by Richmond Gear and modified by Johnny Hightower and it looks nothing like the old Jerico that BP is using.

[xX84 mod teamXx]

the 20 car was a lap down and it's unfair how certain rules apply to certain people. i can remember 7 years ago our team was told weeks after the race that we were a lap down and we lost the point and had to give all the money back. u all can ask joe larsen because he was the one who had to go tell john about it and u guys can say what you want the rules havent changed they were the same then as they are now. billy and his crew know that they were a lap down and the right thing for him to do is to go to the officials and tell them to take the points away and change were he finished. it definetly was announced on the radio and he spun out in turn 3 and 4 as they were coming around to complete lap one . he sat there until they came around for lap two so he never passed the finish line to complete lap one and on top of that he sat there and waited for them to throw the caution. the was no reason for the caution to come out because he was no where near the track and he was able to start hes car up on his own so he didnt need to be pushed or towed off so, why did he sit there? i thought that, that was one of riverheads "new rules" was that if you purposly make the caution come out you suppose to go a lap down. so if that is true even if he completed lap 1 which he didnt he still should have been marked as a lap down. so he really should be marked as two laps down. it would be nice if the officials would just do there job and be honest and call the shots as they are and not question them. its just like last year when jr took john on teh race track and the officials told him that they would take care of it and he would be marked down as last of the lead lap cars. and two hours later jr was marked as 3rd what happened to the 20 minute rule there .


if you guy really want to help change the finish u all should call the raceway and down to florida because the more poeple that complain the better of a chance that they will change it. hopefully they wont pull any of this non-sense in any other divisions or modifieds again.

[Ka$h25]

I don't think the confusion of the officials is really worthy of all this debate. I personally didn't notice it, and I wonder how many of you noticed it at the time and how many are just recalling the situation from memory. Besides that, just hearing the situation from Lobster (being he's the only one who mentioned videotape) I still can't decide if the 20 was legitimately 1 lap down.

Here's an exaggerated example of what could be a similar situation:
If a caution is thrown as the first 2 cars cross the start finish line of lap 1 that means "The top two cars are on lap 2 and no one else completed lap 1". So now would every car besides the first 2 be put 1 lap down? Well I would hope not.

I still may be missing facts and like Ferg mentioned being penalized for INTENTIONALLY bringing out a caution is completely a judgment call and I've seen it go either way for many drivers. Anyway, as I understand the situation -- which I may have misleading facts and such -- the correct call was made. The 20 was saved by the caution, not the officials.

[Tower Man]

Cuz you are missing the facts. The entire field crossed the line and then some. The 20 never crossed the line to complete lap one.

[Tracy87BB]

You all know thast I tend to stay out of the debates on the board, because I do not feel it is my place to tell anyone that their opinions are right or wrong. We are, after all, all entitled to our opinions. That being said, I personally think that we are all beating a dead horse here, with the same things being said over and over again. As was stated in an earlier post, the rule book gives you 20 minutes after the race to protest the finish. I can not and will not speak for what has been done in the past, only because that was the past. As far as anyone's car being illegal...well, that is why there are protest procedures in place for competitors to use if they feel that someone else is not following the rules.

Instead of us all spending the rest of the week hashing this over and over again, it is my opinion (and my opinion only) that we should all start looking forward to an exciting WMT race this weekend.

[fastgal]

because what is at stake here and i belive that the mod champ is worth around $12,000 this wont be a dead horse. if the competiors know and officials know and past precident shows a correction has been made when warrented; i would expect there to be action. if not i suppose lawyers will get involved

[LongIslandJam]

There's been times in NASCAR's past that lawyers were brought in to protest a finish and time and time again, the courts have ruled in favor of NASCAR.

And all this for a hobby. If the sport has gotten this miserable, it's time to take up a new past time.

[hollywoodmic]

What would lawyers get involved for, human error??? Could the scorers or Officials just made a mistake??Should we get lawyers involved for Brigati's flat tire a couple of weeks ago to go after Hoosier or how Marissa and Chuck got together during the 77 lap feature? It's a long season and things happen to everyone. Could it have just been human error??? That happens but no one gave a sh*t 20 minutes after the race, now the Sunday morning quaterbacks are going to chime in. I'm not saying where he should have finished but "lawyers" that is hysterical.

I'm suing Doug Wholey because we needed to pit during a double point charger feature 3 years ago and he blocked us in route to our pit area while he was moving his car. We could have finished 1st or 2nd in the points instead of 4th. We did'nt make it back out in time and finished last, we were going for the lead when we got the flat. Doug my lawyer will be in contact with you. Forget the guys that got into us during the year or the mechanical problem in week 2. We'll just base our season on that one incident that one night and call it a season.It's just so ridiculous.

You think Bill Park is cheating, don't hide behind your computer screen here, put up the $250 and protest it. Perhaps he got away with one this week, but what goes around comes around and I'm sure he'll end up on the sh*t end of something if it didn't happen to him already this year. Folks worry about yourselves and finishing races. Perhaps the results of your team or your favorite driver will be better if you weren't so worried about everyone else. Luck happens sometimes good sometimes bad, take it as it comes and just keep racing.

As a fan and a friend of all the modified drivers it's just amazing to read most of this BS. Just seems like we are always looking for something to complain about. I say last week was last week and lets move on. "Lawyers" over a car one lap down priceless. Move on people.

Steve Halpin

[14SMOKE]

Nobody complained about the finish after the feature Saturday night. Like all other forms of sports if you are an "affected competitor" and dont like a call made by an official, You can challenge that call within the parameters of the rules. In this case that would have been Saturday night within 20 minutes of the feature. The call by the officials was consistent with previous calls this year. Including, as some of you state, waiting for the caution. If you saw the 77 lapper, the only legitimate caution was for Fortin's crash. It took 2 days, and the memory of others for some of you to complain about a decision the officials only have minutes to make. Good call Jim and Mike keep up the consistency.

[fastgal]

to put a different spin on this. would the question of the use of transponders perhaps helped in this instance? they will use them this weekend. use them as a "safety net" to back up the scorers?

[hollywoodmic]

Look at what happened to Dave Sapienza and transponders, a few years ago at Mountain Speedway. Again went back to human error, it happens.

[Ka$h25]

My "argument" was that, again from how I've always interpreted it, a lap is not complete until the entire field crosses the line. Whether 1 out of 20 cars crossed the line, or 19 out of 20 cars crossed the line, if there is one car that hasn't crossed, then scoring reverts to the last fully completed lap. I'm not arguing that I'm right by any means, just looking to settle this for my own comfort. lol

[Fkraft99]

but the point is john they did count the lap. cause when the race restarted it was on lap 1. not a complete restart, and the 20 car never completed that lap, so therefore like doug wholey in the late model race, he should have been scored one lap down and placed at the tail end of the field on each restart


plus how do you know what happened during the mod race?? you were having trouble standing during the BB race

[Ka$h25]

It still doesn't make sense. It sounds like the mistake is that the lap should not have counted, but that isn't what's being complained about. Maybe I'll give an rFactor demonstration so I can figure out where I'm getting the story wrong.:lol:

[Richie]

How about , do they still go back to the previous lap when the yellow comes out??? Which would mean if they where on lap 2 they went back to lap 1, the same lap Bill was on. Huh?

[Tower Man]

The horse died...I'm going to the horses wake later today.

In lieu of flowers donations can be made to the Riverhead Raceway Polital Action Committee.

[Teds Race Tours]

To me, you only go a lap down when the leader passes you. Since the caution came out BEFORE the leader passed the 20, how could Park have POSSIBLY been a lap down?

[briggs34]

Only the first 6 or 7 cars were across the line when the yellow came out. That would mean the whole rest of the field would also be a lap down. Ridiculous. I think a few of you are grasping at straws. Let's all hope for a local to win the Tour Race this week!!!

[bulldozer]

Just inconsistant calls from the officals doug wholey gets into a racing accident ,he is in the turn four wall, caution comes out he was running 7th.They didnt go by him and score the next lap because he was in the wall.So now they say he is a lap down.If they are saying he is a lap down which he wasnt then keep it consistant that night and call the 20 a lap down.I personaly think neither was a lap down because yes it goes back to the last lap.But if you are calling it for one guy the main before keep it consistant.:help:

[LongIslandJam]

I think we've summed up the situation here:

Some notes:

* When the caution flies, the field is reset to the previously completed lap. So if the caution flies in the midst of lap 7, how they completed lap 6 will be how they line up (unless they are deemed part of the caution).
* The drivers had the right to protest the finish that race night. Since no one protested that night, the race is official.

As long as all the drivers are OK with where they finished, and they had the opportunity to voice their concern, let's move on.

Glad we could clear up some discrepancies along the way.