Transponders at Riverhead Raceway

[Dave A]

How come they dont have a lap counting system at the track?

[Jaws]

?????Maybe $$$$??????

[figure849]

!!!!!!!Maybe they do!!!!!...

[Dave A]

i know that but come on how much could it be 3 4 grand the most... i think they can afford it after last weekend..

[W. J.]

The system is in place, and was used for the WMT race. I know of no plans to use it for any other purposes.

[Tower Man]

It was originally installed for a WKA Regional event, I believe , in 2006. NASCAR came in a couple of months ago and "reinstalled" a new loop at the start finish line.

[Dave A]

then how come i need a scorer for 8 cylinder enduro? If its cause the amount of cars there could be, maybe we should buy our own transponders..

[W. J.]

The transponders used were owned by NASCAR or the WMT teams themselves. Riverhead Raceway doesn't own any transponders that I know of. Even the ones the karts used were owned by WKA.

Yes, it would be nice to see them used for scoring things like enduros, where errors seem to occur more frequently, but you'd have to take that issue up with track management.

[JBonsignore]

The system would not cost the race track any money at all, the WKA system has a rental fee built into the entry for each race, with a 18 race schedule and lets say roughly 100 cars in the pits a night, plus enduros the system would pay for itself in less then a year, I know Mountain charges like $10-12 for the day, it is well worth it, no questioning and you can go to www.mylaps.com for lap by lap results EVERY WEEK!

In the management will probably make a profit off of the deal after the system pays itself off

[khallock]

Great suggestion, less confusion in lining everyone back up and no mistakes. Quicker line up Quicker races, might just equal more features per evening.

[richardpetey]

Wall Speedway had the transponder system and every driver used/owned their own transponder, with racers individual frequency registered with the AMB operator at the facility.........................:applause:
Its about time RH got outa the stone age and started using them.........................:confused:
It would definitely stop all the creative scoring going on in the enduro divisions...........................:eek:
Its hard to believe that as long as RH has been in operation they rely on an out dated scoring system.......................:(
UNCLE PETEY...................:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[Dave A]

exactly!!! Im pretty sure i finished in the top ten again and yet i have to wait a week to see where i finished..BS......i think everyone would even pay a few more dollars to have the ability to see lap times and position..

[SuperShafts]

No more cheating, you know the guys that drop down on the infield and run laps down there, go from last to 1st 2x in 4 laps....

Use the transponders...

[Tower Man]

The loops are in the track already. All they would need to do is get the software and an operator.

[Tracy87BB]

I'm not saying that transponders couldn't be beneficial, but somehow when the discussion of transponders comes up, suddenly everyone forgets the problems we have seen with them in practical use too. There were many races that I remember the promoters having to actually sit down and view videotapes of and essentially score the videotaped races by hand because of transponder issues. And how about the instances where races were run and individual transponders stopped working while the race was going on? All I'm saying is that we should remember that no system is completely foolproof or perfect.

[Tower Man]

Correct, no system is completly fool proof. However, transponders take away the guessing and the scoring out of turn 3.

[Biltor57]

It would not work they cry enough Especially if they saw the price of them.

[Tower Man]

Who would cry? The promotors? The teams? And what's expensive. Be specific here.

[art11758]

If a track like mountain can do it, why not anywhere else? IIRC rental of transponders is less than you pay at the gate to sign in. If anything, in my eyes, it would add to Riverhead, not the other way around. Think about it. When you go to mylaps you see all sorts of different facilities running all types of events. If you see something interesting, you look into it. Maybe an off season road trip after talking about it to others. (happened to me) If Riverhead isn't included, no exposure. Maybe somebody has never seen 4000 pound plus stock cars before. We got 'em. It's a good deal waiting to be explored.

[Biltor57]

Who would cry? The promotors? The teams? And what's expensive. Be specific here.

I think the drivers/ Teams. I Bought one for Wall , more than once Ive been at the track and they had no more rentals around .And to Boot they were not going to let me race at first but then said I could race but I would not be scored, So it was like I was never even there .
Its around $400.00
I think it woud be a real problem.

[richardpetey]

The money you pay to get your scorer into the racetrack during the season would pay for two transponders at the end of the season....................;)
Do transponders have there little quirks? Sure they do, but they beat whatevers in second place by a mile.................:confused:
Its a win-win situation, the track line-up and program runs more efficiently and RH can make money renting them out, plus, the drivers/race teams save money...................:applause:
As for running laps through the infield, the transponder loop(at start/finish line) only runs across the racing surface(between white line and wall) so cars racing below the white line are not scored................................:rolleyes:
UNCLE PETEY.................:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[W. J.]

Do transponders have there little quirks? Sure they do, but they beat whatevers in second place by a mile.................:confused: I've heard stories about human scorers that had their own 'quirks' too! :lol:

[Dave A]

exactly!! I have a scorer with a quirk and its effin my points up!!! I deffinatly finished in the top ten but my quirky friend told me he messed up in the holding up the sign at lap 11 instead of 10 and i believe that left me back a lap... I got it on tape.......BS i guess i lose!!

[W. J.]

So the choice is simple: convince the track to use transponders, or get a better scorer!!! ;););)

[Buckshot11]

Nothing like kicking a dead horse, but here is some more info. I've collected this because after visiting Mounting/Sundance anyone can see what a WAY better system using transponders is. Just think of the 15 mins each enduro division/race sits on the track after the race to 'tally scoring cards', that would be time saved. Also, think of your scorer, instead of trying to write down a number every 14-20 secs, they might be able to actually watch and enjoy the race. The last, maybe most important for anyone trying to improve on there race career is seeing lap times for every lap (if you have your own x-ponder), fastest lap and position of every racer every lap.

AMB (Same system as mountain) software & hardware needed: $6395
Not very expensive considering the amount of tickets sold in a weekend.
I'll bet you could even get a larger sponsor to cough up the money.

Detection Loop - Free, as its already installed. Even so its only $165

Now here's the expensive part, Transponders: Most tracks seem to use the Tranx260 transponders which retail for $420. The lesser expensive Tranx160, according to AMB, "..can easily time up to speeds of 180 mph", should surfice but are still $285. Buying in bulk saves a few $ but not much. If the track were to buy the x-ponders and rent them for $10 it would take approx 20 races to recoup the money. Not bad if you ask me. Of course a x-ponder would be needed for every racer that day, 30 cars per enduro divson x 4 divisions + 2 other divisons = 150 - 200 transponders the track would need to purchase to rent. Long story long...thats at least $50,000 of up front money needed. My guess is this is the big obstacle in bringing a transponder system to the track. Any sponsors willing to kick in? Now think of this...after all pay off of investment...say 2 years to be safe the track could bring in an extra $1000 per day on rentals (renting only 100) * 25 race days (theres more) = an easy $25,000 extra for the year. Sounds like more purse money to me, which brings higher car counts, which brings more fans, which brings more money...get the point?

[Ka$h25]

I don't foresee the promoters going about this one, and I really don't blame them. This sounds like something that would be better served as an idea for a separate division. Have an enduro class that mandates the driver have his or her own transponder. I know the enduro car counts are down as it is now with all the different classes but that's really the only way I see the transponder idea gaining any ground. It does sound like quite a luxury though.

[Buckshot11]

I don't foresee the promoters going about this one, and I really don't blame them. This sounds like something that would be better served as an idea for a separate division. Have an enduro class that mandates the driver have his or her own transponder. I know the enduro car counts are down as it is now with all the different classes but that's really the only way I see the transponder idea gaining any ground. It does sound like quite a luxury though.

Its not just for enduros. I just used that example because there are more cars that day. I'm not sure how many people the track employs to score regular divisions, I'm sure its more then one, but with a transponder system you only need one scorer. It is a luxury because it's much nicer then the current scoring system, but luxury items don't generate income usually, like this would. With that said, I do agree, I dont foresee the promoters going about this one either. But hey, you never know.

[Ka$h25]

Its not just for enduros. I just used that example because there are more cars that day. I'm not sure how many people the track employs to score regular divisions, I'm sure its more then one, but with a transponder system you only need one scorer. It is a luxury because it's much nicer then the current scoring system, but luxury items don't generate income usually, like this would. With that said, I do agree, I dont foresee the promoters going about this one either. But hey, you never know.

Eh, I wouldn't be so much in favor of it for the traditional Saturday night divisions. 3-4 scorers shouldn't have any problem scoring 25 laps of 15-20 cars. But it sounds like it would make a world of difference for the Enduro guys.

[W. J.]

Having seen this type of thing work elsewhere, it would make a world of difference no matter the car count!

Interestingly enough, EZ Pass works the same way this does. Maybe see if the MTA Bridge people have a surplus unit around and just have everyone get an EZ Pass!

[cerckl'm racing]

Heehee....EZPass in a race car. Would the Mods have to mount it on their windshields?

[W. J.]

Heehee....EZPass in a race car. Would the Mods have to mount it on their windshields?...and, they would have to remember to REMOVE it when they travel to avoid being double billed! :lol:

[Troyer driver]

If the track owners still won't fix the score board, do you really think they would get a system that would cost even $ 1.OO?

:wave::wave::wave::wave::wave: <X> :wave::wave::wave::wave::wave:

[attituderacing]

The score board has been fixed!!!!

[Dave A]

The score board is fixed well its about friggin time!!!!!!!! now how about the lap counting system??:cheers:

[CheckerWon]

We use transponders at L.I.K.A. for quaulifying and the race day , they are mandatory!!!!! They cost appx. $200 ... There is no Question with scoring , for each and every driver in every class... (drivers register there Transp.# ahead of time)... As long as you charge them properly you never have an issue ... All is recorded lap by lap , by the computer program...If you have an issue with your own transp. a few are availible to rent that are supplied by the Track (club)... The other good thing about using transponers is that as long as a tripod beacon is set up you can get your excact lap times in practice sessions and the track could print them out after each race feature....A plus all the way around for everyone competitors and track ... The only slight negetive aspect is the initial exspense of ($200) ...Thanks.....Artie P

[EDWARD COLON]

yes no system is fool proof but, what if transponders are used (which they should in this day and age)and a scorer is still used as a back up? that would work perfectly, I would be very happy to purchase my own transponder as I'm sure many others would also.

[racekitten]

exactly!! I have a scorer with a quirk and its effin my points up!!! I deffinatly finished in the top ten but my quirky friend told me he messed up in the holding up the sign at lap 11 instead of 10 and i believe that left me back a lap... I got it on tape.......BS i guess i lose!!

When your scorer holds your card up it is to let the scorers know who's up front so they can watch the leaders, etc. That has nothing to do with where you finish. The only way you would "miss" a lap is if your scorer didn't write a time in a box.