To Move Cars or Not to Move Cars...

[NJ Chick]

That seems to be the question. Here is a thread that is on Big Diamond's forum board, you have to weed through some of it, but the main discussion is about removing dead cars from the track. There are 3 pages of posts so far. I thought I would bring it over to our forum for further evaluation as we'll be back at Grandview in October. What are your thoughts on this subject as a NEETS driver or fan? Please no bashing of anyone, just opinions/thoughts.

http://greenflag314.proboards28.com/index.cgi?board=endurance&action=display&thread=1108

[Erin C]

I am borderline on this subject...

1. This is an enduro, true enduros left cars on the track and even threw in some obstacles...it is an endurance race and should be raced as such. It is an accomplishment to say you won a race dodging cars left and right for 100 laps!! That is TRUE talent!

2. Economy is bad, parts/cars are getting expensive...if you wreck and stay on the track, chances are your car will get hit and you may not be in the financial position to have it ready for the next race

3. As a fan...it is SOOOO exciting watching the good, the bad, and the ugly (that's the soap opera name for dodging cars on the track!!)

I hate to see people struggle to get their cars back together, but you kind of have to expect the unexpected with a true enduro race...

[CJfilms]

To move or not to move...

If not to move...then you know the deal.

If to move...then let's block off the pits...now you HAVE to endure with what you have...

[Sac-Man]

How I see it. Unfortunately the Flemington days are over. The cars today are not built as durable. Unibodies are designed to fold up. The car counts are down increasing the speeds. I will run the races either style, removing cars or not. I do recognize it is more likely that I will total my car when dead cars are left on the track. I have had a car totaled when it died on the track. I would prefer the dead cars pulled from the racing groove. I don’t like yellow or caution flags. Grandview needs better signaling for red flags. I could only get to 35 MPH with the track- (Grandview) soaking wet. The wall at Grandview is really hard too. I want to run at Big Diamond and New Egypt and now that I’ve yanked out my windshield I will. I’ve heard complaints that the cheaters win when the dead cars are pulled from the track and I’ve heard complaints that people don’t want to total a car or get hurt hitting a dead car. So the major point is I like dead cars pulled from the racing groove, which is safer, and also due to the lack of a frame and crumple zones on these newer enduro cars, a sign of the times; and I like pitting. Now that scanners are being pushed at Mountain speedway I am using one and I like it. Complainers complain and the racers will do what is needed to race. I hear you already, I know there are still older full framed enduro cars out there but they are getting harder and harder to find. If we get to the point that we have 60 plus cars in a race then I would flip back to leave every dead car on the track; because the speeds would be down due to the congestion. I’ve been there and done it. I look forward to racing you soon…

[EnduroFromDE]

My first enduro was at flemington...as a spectator that is...i think i was like 7 or 8...but i remember they put rollers in each of the four corners before the enduro's started...I dont remember much from the enduro it self but i do remember the dead cars purposely put in the turns BEFORE the race started...Of course the first enduro I remember about the race it self was at Bridgeport in the mid 90's...It had 137 cars to start...all large cars...soaked the track down before the race...it was a stop and go start lined up 4 wide, from the start/finish line, around turn 4 and around turn three and almost into the back stretch...again the cars were left on the track...but top speed for most of the race was fairly slow until the cars started droping down...i do agree with John on this one...under 50 cars to start pull the dead cars out of the main line...over 50 to start...pitting under reds only and leave the cars be...I do like the idea of wetting the track but maybe not as much as last race...Also if anyone near delaware...maybe southern PA or Southern NJ has any spare cars lying around that maybe i can burrow for a race, a 4cyl if posible, please let me know...

[Lad3der]

Plain and simple CARS STAY ON THE TRACK! case closed

[gswracing]

the cars should be left on the track. its not hard to destroy a car either way.i don't think this should even be up for debate. enduro racing is what it is. if people are worried run every couple weeks a local track where they use yellow flags. just my opinion. steve sapp they are called mouse traps racer walsh, race engineering, johnson machine always have them in stock.

[EnduroFromDE]

cars on track...i guess thats the way it is goin to be...and Jeff...Johnson machines...?...if you have a few lying around maybe i could borrow one for an enduro race or two...or maybe get them Bridgeport legal and you and the rest of Fugly Racing come back racing with us...

[richardpetey]

I have raced enduros for so many years that I probably raced against Ben-Hur in the very first one, hehe..............................:eek:
I have seen the maturation of the sport go from 365 bonestock cars starting a race at Nazarath to the very first NEETS race at Mountain where half the cars were closer to factory stocks than true enduros.................:help:
I have watched the personality of enduros change over the years mostly because the drivers wanted their favorite habit to look more like a real racing division rather than the 35 to 45 mph demo-derby into which it had evolved......................:rolleyes:
This process among other things has slowly reduced the true enduro to a 100 lap feature.......................:disgusted
I don't like dodging wrecked cars at 60 to 70mph anymore than the next driver but by the very definiton of the sport it is a challange of your ability to last, endure the carnage and be first to the checkers....................:(
If you continually strip enduro of its personality, it will slowly go away.............................:mad:
UNCLE PETEY...................:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[CJfilms]

Very well said Petey...

Actually everyone too in that case! I liked what everyone had to say here...maybe pulling the cars with under 30 cars starting the race...??? Don't forget, the last thing we want to see is someone pulled from their car by an EMT. With 20 or so cars racing at high speeds, it is hard to see a single dead car left on a track while there is no other congestion to bring the speeds lower.

Obviously a wet track and even a packed track will naturally slow traffic down, but we all know it is everyone's intention to "GO FAST!!!" We have all witnessed one of the guys on the front line spinning out because he wanted to go fast and win the race on the Green Flag...

The biggest concern here is the racing on dirt is a little more dangerous... On asphalt, you have more grip to slow the car down in a hurry...if you don't mash the brakes that is...whereas on dirt, some of these first-timers on dirt are not prepared to deal with a sudden red flag or how to maneuver around a dead car in the groove without wrecking themselves or others.

I am all for the moving cars aspect, but the truth is...that is not enduro racing. I want this sport to continue to endure and grow into what it once was, but moving cars is not in that direction. As always I will not be the one to just hand down a decision. We (NEETS officials) will discuss the options described here and on other forums as well regarding this topic...but (for anyone reading this) once we make the final decision...it is FINAL!

If we decide they stay...they stay...period. ...Or as Matt would put it:
PERIOD!!!!

[310fig8]

I have run Enduros both ways. If I had my way I would go with removing the cars like they did at Big Diamond. However as Uncle Petey pointed out that was not pure Enduro rules. If the vote goes to leave the cars on the track, I would like to see it modified slightly. A car (driver or driverless) stopped crossways across the track simply takes up much too much room. My suggestion would be at least to move the car so its facing the same way that the traffic is flowing. Though Enduro does mean weaving and dodging, I would also like to see at least some racing room at all times. JMO
Bill Stockert 310

[NJ Chick]

Ok, less from the officials and more from the driver's!:p Come on you guys, let's hear it, for or against! I'm calling out Joe Jentile, Bobby Pease, John Cozza, Woot, Winky, Ryan Nelson, Dave Bentley, Mike Ventura, TJ Kapish, The Kulik's, Boom Boom, Cory Student, Aaron Miller, Pappy, Duane Eidem, Jeff Gregor, EVERYONE ELSE, I know you all have opinions, don't be shy now!:D

Thank you to those who have already posted their feelings on the subject.
:cheers:

[EnduroFromDE]

I guess I fall under "EVERYONE ELSE"...but I say leave um' where they die...the cars that is...

[Lad3der]

enough of the discussion. car stays on the track how it dies. if its in a bad spot a red will be thrown and get te driver/transponder out, but the car will stay exactly how it died. as always drivers are told to leave the car in neutral so that if it gets hit it will roll. so quit the twitching and suck it up, it's an enduro and lets not forget it.

so i am going to say that the final decision is cars stay. if that means so guys wont come back so be it. a few less drivers wont hurt what we are doing and you never know we might just gain some more in the process and those may even come back

[DEMotorsports]

Having raced many enduros from Nazareth, PA. to San Jose, Ca. I have seen everything from the water truck coming onto the track during the race, big pumpkins (actual) for Halloween and soaping the track, all to keep the speeds down. Enduro drivers are able to adapt to any track condition, rain, shine or slime. Mix into that messy concoction "dead cars" and that my friends is what makes enduro racing unique.
Now for the safety side of "dead cars". If they are left on the track than officials should ensure that the car is not in gear or park. Hitting a solid hunk of steel that does not move hurts the neck. Maybe a Hans devices is needed?
Here is something to think about and possibly doable. Some tracks have what they call a "pusher". That is a vehicle, sort of like a push truck, that is on the track only to push cars off to the infield or to the pits. All of this is done while the race is under green. It will only push cars if the driver is sitting in them to eliminate the use of a red flag. Otherwise if a driver abandons their car due to heavy damage the car will then stay on the track. I have seen this concept done and it keeps the red flags down and the race moving. There are many ways to utilize this concept for safety purposes only.
I trust the NEETS officials will make a sound decision on the "dead car" subject. They will keep safety in mind along with the spirit of enduro racing.
I never minded the dead cars on the track. It was always a challenge of paying attention and skill of dodging obstacles. Keep it fun and safe and I'll be there.
Duane :)

[Sac-Man]

It has kind of evolved into a 100 lap feature. We need to mix it up and make it interesting. How about I buy 10 of those 5 gallon plastic buckets from the Home Depot and we fill them with water and put them around the track? I bet the fans get a kick out of it when someone hits one. It will make the track slick in that location for a few laps too. I’m thinking the consensus is to leave the dead cars on the track, which is fine with me. Maybe some of the Big Diamond guys don’t come but perhaps we make it fun and wild and we can draw in some new faces. I’ll do this for the small car race and hopefully someone will pitch in for the big car race.
I know I’m going to draw some flames for this idea but perhaps it will help or spur on an even better idea. I know we all want more cars, more challenge, bigger purses and trophies…

[Maddawg]

It's called ENDURO RACING for a reason!!!!!!!!!!! You need to Endure !!!!!!!!! whatever it is.
I Love this sport, 100 laps caution free, maybe a red flag, whatever!!!!!!! This is absolutely the purest form of racing out there !!:cheers:
Lets Keep it Real !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maddawg 417=12

[richardpetey]

D E Motorsports may have posted the answer to our problem with his mention of a vehicle to push dead cars off the track during a race.....................:applause:
The mid-west enduros used it in many of their races, but they called it a "JAMMER TRUCK".........................;)
This "Jammer Truck" circled the track during the race to insure that no major jam- ups caused a bottleneck on the racing surface...............:rolleyes:
The rules stated you could not hit the "Jammer truck" or you would be automatically DQ'ed....................:eek:
In reality the "Jammer" was just another slow vehicle you HAD TO AVOID, but its true value was in keeping the track clear of major debris and allowing green flag racing..............:cool:
This "Jammer" would still keep it a true enduro and satisfy some of the other enduro guys(BDR), (NES), etc. with regards to removal of dead cars...........:angel:
I hate to see the bickering amongst all the different enduro peeps, maybe this will help keep us all a big happy family..................:cheers:
UNCLE PETEY.................:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[J & J Racing 41]

Im not a big fan of long reds needed to clear/move cars, having said that the best way to keep the car count healthy is to have everyone or as many as possible take a running car home with them. If you got 100+ cars thats one thing but with 30 cars or so you start destroying them and you got 20/15 car fields - we been there- we dont want to go back. Its tough to get people to build cars to support your series so take care of the ones you got. I support the idea of at least keeping the groove clear .

[enduro438]

I have been in races where the dead were left on the track. It definitely adds to the excitement for the fans and keeps the drivers attention way up. The only thing I didnt like was when the groove would be blocked and you would have 30 cars piling into each other to get around a dead car. eventually someone would knock it out of the way but lots of radiators and tires would get destroyed in those bottlenecks. I think I like the idea of a big car or truck keeping "most" of the track clear and adding a slower rolling obstacle to avoid as it rolls through the center groove. I think it would have to follow the same line so as to avoid anyone feeling they are being intentionally blocked. If you catch it at a bad time, change your line.Car cant run a different line? oh well pass it in the next turn. I know how frustrating it is when you have a line on someone and cant complete the pass because of slower traffic, but thats the nature of an enduro. You want to run balls out the whole race, run with the factory stocks, or street stocks. this will add more to the drivers ability and make a "race car" a little bit less of an asset. i think it will help the give more drivers the opportunity to run with the faster cars. When you have 30-40 drivers with a chance at winning instead of 10-15 it will increase the car counts eventually because as we all did before we started, we look at the cars from the stands and think "I can do this". Sure it sucks having to load your car on the trailer with a fork lift, but we all know the risk of losing a car before we enter the track.

[CJfilms]

So....does anyone have a spare jammer?

I would consider this a strong potential for our series to increase the action on the track and keep the safety/percent of cars surviving higher. The only problem we have now is finding the truck...

Sac-man... like the bucket idea...only worried about bits of plastic getting ran into the surface...anyone have an idea other than a bucket to use here???

Joe Jentile...right you are and that is the reason for this discussion...Over 40 cars started the GranDuro and nearly half finished. If that were to mean that 20 cars were wrecked (and blown motors don't count...we didn't do that!) and not returning to racing this season, then we now have a 20 car field and reverted back to the 2007 season car counts.

I think the main issue here is keeping the groove clear, not moving cars completely but enough to provide a racing groove for ...most... racers to utilize safety. A Jammer truck would prevent a few reds from flying, so that is definitely an idea worth trying... I hate to see even one driver have to lose their car from either wreck or blown motor, but that is the spirit of the sport...and we cannot lose that spirit. Although, the flipside to that very statement is that 20 cars out there is nothing more than a train race with a long wait for the action.

We need to make this decision based on the car counts...start registering and we will decide what we are to ultimately do here by seeing how many people are going to race. 20-30 is a small field for an enduro...60+ let's go out and have some real fun, no reason to move 'em, wet spotts (like a soaked Kurt Spotts?) on the track will add to the excitement, and the Jammer will be working overtime!

Send in those registrations everyone...it's time to play!

[CJfilms]

Oh...I forgot...

Jammer to donate?

joe@neetsracing.com

[rpkulik]

Wow, someone actually ASKED for my opinion! Thanks, Cindy! I have lost my share of dead cars, but I actually like the concept. It is a pity that at certain venues a dead car is almost guaranteed to get demolished. But having hit dead cars myself (none recently), I understand how it happens. Petey hit the nail on the head as far as I am concerned: the cars are changing, the rules are changing --- into plain old racing stuff! If things continue, there will be nothing to seperate Enduros from any other racing form. UGH!!!

That being said, cars are getting pretty difficult to come by. Although scrap prices have dropped recently, the damage is already done. At one time I had 5 G-bodies and didn't pay over $500 for any one of them. Now, IF you can find one, $800 looks like a bargain. And I'm down to my last car. Right now ANYTHING for $500 is a bargain.

I like the jammer truck idea. It seems to solve both problems.

As far as keeping speeds down: Excessive speed isn't a problem, it's an obligation!

[mystic1582]

Move the dead cars...The official Matt remarked that if they loose a few drivers each event because of it (leaving the dead players on the track) so be it...Do the math. Loosing one to five drivers a race because their car got demolished will add up fast if it has not already. everyone complains/worries about car counts dropping. Why add fuel to the fire. It is no longer "cheap" to run an enduro car given the cost to get to and from the track, the entry fee, the registration fee, the gas for the enduro car, tolls, tires replacement and maintenance parts etc. I think most guys out there spend too much time and money to see their race car; I mean enduro car get demolished beyond repair if it gets hit badly or destroyed from being left on the track. The other issue is speeds. The cars are traveling upwards of 75 mph at given points on the track. Someone will be hurt badly given enough time. I'm not so concerned about myself or another drivers capability to dodge a bullet. My concern is a driver intentionally or accidently stuffing someone into a dead car...This is a no win situation and sucks for both car if they get destroyed...and if you look at the liability if something goes really wrong you can pretty much count on the track becoming a housing tract if the teeth of a lawyer get involved. Steve Petry :cheers:

[J & J Racing 41]

The next ? is who wants to drive a jammer truck trying to push a car in the middle of the track with a pack of cars going 75 mph flying up behind them? sounds like a good job for Matt lol . At least it would keep him from jumping in front of a pack of cars from the flagger stand.

[Lad3der]

steve
my comment was directed at drivers that wont race with use because the cars stay on the track. that is where i said that we will lose some drivers.

joe
you are right it is a job for me, but besides finding a driver for it here is another problem housing and getting to and from the track?

[richardpetey]

Lets get "SPEEDO" outa retirement and rent a local wrecker for him to cruise the frankenduro as our first "JAMMER" pilot.......................:eek:
The Lord only knows how many cars hes' wrecked in his career, now its time for him to clean up his mess, hehe.................:applause:
Don't worry Joe, after SPEEDO gets done cleaning cars off the track, he'll be the only one left................................:disgusted
Thats right! He'll be the guy in the push truck going faster than us...................................:drool:
UNCLE PETEY...................:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[EPAEnduros.Com]

Since we (BDR regulars) were invited to post, I figure I'll throw my two cents into this conversation on your message board so all of you can see for youself what I personally believe. First off, I mentioned this a number of times since July on the BDR board, "People have a choice where to run or not to run, nothing's mandating anybody to race at BDR, NES, Mountain or a NEETS show". Whatever the decision the NEETS officials come up with, it's their promotion and people have to either live with the decision or not race. Simple as that.

Now, let's discuss this topic of removing "dead cars". First of all please allow me to clarify one thing. The "dead cars" the BDR drivers are talking about (for the most part) are not ALL "dead cars" but only "dead cars" in the racing groove. We're not complaining about high side, or low side cars... the guys race with those everywhere else they run (not just BDR) so they're not in this equasion.

I have read all discussions (both boards) and understand where a grand majority of you are coming from. I will also admit, I'm a racing purest and desire for things to remain as close to the origional as feesably possible. Unfortunately though, the days where we can have 200+ cars entering an enduro for 200+ laps are over. Are you kidding me, I'd love to see every enduro be a 200 car 300 lap event... now THAT'S an enduro. These 100 lap races with 40 or so cars are nothing more then a Sunday afternoon features labeled "enduros". Now before you think I'm mocking what an enduro has become I'm not, I'm simply re-stating reality, others posting here before me have admitted the same thing.

The decision presented before you is a very difficult one but it's one almost necessary with the economy today, especially if you want to be paid at the end of the day. If you don't mind having 5 people paid with a top prize of $400 that's entirely up to you. I personally would love to have 7+ positions get paid with a top prize of over a grand and that's of course factoring in that Joe's a great salesperson and has the show completely sponsored. I mean why else race if you're not shooting for a prize?

You're all very intelligent and will come up with a conclusion which will be best for NEETS' future. I beg you to remember that you can't build a car these days for under $1000... most cases under $2000 and the more cars that are allowed to be potentially destroyed, the less cars you'll have available for you to race against, pay entry fees, support the prize funds, enable you to rent Grandview with pit passes etc, and cover costs of putting on a show along with various other expenses incurred by the promotion. This is the future of NEETS we're talking about. I'm 100% sure your promotion has been faced with worse times than these, but you have to admit, the less cars you draw, the tougher it is financially to run a show.

I conclude by saying that regardless of your decision, it's your decision to make and ultimately anybody who dislikes your decision doesn't have to run in your promotion. I personally feel moving cars out of the groove would be beneficial to your promotion but I'm not an official so I don't have to pay the price of the compromise... or benefit from the reward for that matter. I post simply to set the record straight that the BDR guys (for the most part) are not talking about removing ALL cars, simply the cars in the regular racing groove... and they don't even have to be removed... they can be moved out of the groove. I'm also here to explain the reason most BDR guys feel this way and clarify it has nothing to do with fear of anything on the track but fear of going broke and taking away from the lives of our families with the endless hours of repairing a car that was destroyed by the current, outdated standards.

Thank you for allowing me to speak, I trust your decision will be fair to NEETS, for the regular drivers who participate in NEETS shows, and everybody else who enjoys racing in this class of racing.

Jim Evans Jr. - Webmaster
EPA Enduros.Com
www.epaenduros.com
(570) 385-3205
webmaster@pageworkz.net

[Tracy57]

For what it's worth, I really like how BDR clears cars. And I think that clearing cars makes it a little easier for someone to get into enduro racing. I started doing enduros because it was low cost, low stress, racing with a fun, friendly bunch of people. It doesn't require being in the garage until 2am every night, or fighting about who did what to who after the race.

I think unneccessary car destruction by leaving them in the groove is just another barrier to entry into this sport at a time when we need more people interesed in LOCAL racing and enduro racing. Enduro is a good way to get out have some fun, full-contact racing without breaking the bank. If we want more people on the track a little less unneeded destruction wouldn't hurt. I think following the big diamond model works well.

I don't mind breaking a few parts, or straighting out a few parts now and then, I expect to, I want to, and I kind of enjoy looking thru the junkyard for a few parts here and there, but finding a replacement for a totalled car takes me out of too many races. It can take weeks.

The old beaters are taken off the road and crushed too soon - most of the cars in the junkyard are nicer than what I used to drive. The junkyards I used to go to with a can of gas and battery don't let you walk thru the yard looking for a car to drive home anymore. A lot of the junkers that were sitting on blocks in someone's back yard got scrapped. Unfortunately I am maxed out on my number of cars on my property now, so a good deal, and having the room rarely happen at the same time. (funny how the neighbors don't mind complaining about you until their car needs to be fixed, stuff needs to be welded, or they don't have heat and it's -10 outside - maybe I should tell them to go ask someone else next time)

We'll be at grandview either way (assuming no issues with the tow vehicle - which happens to be older and more dilapidated than the cars I tow with it), it just might change our ideas on which car to bring.
We're looking foreward to racing with all of you.

-Larry

[drewsent]

If someone can provide a good, well protected truck (heavy duty bumper and push bars both front and back), with a reasonable cage, racing seat and belts, (ready for this??) ---

I'll drive the Jammer Truck!!

If I can't, I'll bet I can find a few other folks who will. A second seat for a possible spotter might be useful, but not necessary, as well.

The bottom line on the Jammer Truck is that is had to be safe, and there should probably be a penalty for hitting the Jammer Truck.

I'm not sure the Jammer Truck would have to be out on the track for the whole race, but it could 'make a few rounds' when there are dead cars on the track. Not having the Jammer Truck on the track for every lap might cut down on the number of destroyed Jammer Trucks.

Eric Drews
Drews Enterprises

To borrow something from Field of Dreams -- Jammer Truck of Dreams -- you build it they (the drivers) will come.

[EnduroFromDE]

heck if i dont have a car by then..i'll drive the Truck..im an ex-enduro driving trying to get back in it...so i'm use to being out there anyway...

[Steve Haegele]

kind of like the old rules with leaving the cars out there, but j&j has a point when it comes to tearing up the cars, it would hurt the car count, keeping the groove open is a good idea also, the jammer truck is a great idea.

[nobandwagonhere]

Im sort of on the fence with this one. (here we go!:rolleyes:). The first time I came to a NEETS race I was amazed and my attention was caught when the red was thrown and cars were moved. Used to racing at Riverhead, where a red flag was pretty much unheard of, I thought "WOW, I may finally be able to run the same car more than one race!", versus running "disposeable cars".
BUT!!!!....It is an ENDURO.....-Endurance,..-Endure. Thats the name of the game. I think, (especially on dirt) if a car is in the racing groove, maybe move it. If a car is dead and theres room around it, leave it. This should maybe minimize flags and set the pace for some good hard racing.
JMO, but the whole car count point that was made kind of makes alot of sense. They are not too easy to come by these days, and who wants to go back to gut-n-go disposeable cars. Their not too cheap these days.
Im in either way ans long as my wallet says its OK (who, by the way, seems to be the party pooper these days). I tried like hell to make the last Grandview race but came up short. Im going to make an attempt at this one in Oct. though. But dead cars on the track or off really doesnt matter to me. I just want to race.
Hope I made sense, I sell translation books online if anyone is interested...lol:rolleyes::help:
See yas soon.
Donny--Boom-Boom--Kirby--Dookie The Third

[woot lawrence]

what about the truck that josh just wrecked?? how bad is it?? could that be the jammer truck??

[CJfilms]

NO WOOT, JOSHY TRADED IT IN!!!! :mad::lol:

Thanks for getting involved Donny! We need more people to voice their opinions on this matter...it is obviously a major issue with the economy in it's current state and the cost of racing higher than ever.

WE NEED A JAMMER!!!! joe@neetsracing.com

Jammer:
Full body truck, roll bars and cage a must, proper harnesses and window nets, no glass..., push bars and rub rails, it must be 4WD since it is on dirt, ...heck, we have enough people that will drive!

The most important part is we need a way to get it to/from the track and a place for it!

JAM IT JAM IT JAM IT!!!! joe@neetsracing.com

[richardpetey]

I think we need a full-sized truck with push bumpers, maybe I can find an old wrecker............................:rolleyes:
Gonna need a truck that will be able to push a big car off the track with no problems, I don't see a S-10 making it.........................:help:
Thats right Eric, its an automatic DQ if you hit the Jammer, at least in the mid-west enduro rules......................:eek:
Its still all academic, until the powers that be make the big decision............:p
UNCLE PETEY.........................:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[NJ Chick]

Bob, you silly, of course I want your opinion!:)All of you are very important to NEETS, you are the guys and girls who make the series what it is. It's your baby too people!;)Whether you've run every race with us since 2003, have run off and on over the years or if your very first race was at Grandview this past July, all of your voices are important. I'm encouraging everyone to please keep your opinions coming. Thanks to all who have posted so far and to those who still plan too.:wave:

If we do end up using a jammer truck, can we call it "Tow Jam"??:applause:

[Tracy87BB]

Hey...I thought I had exclusive rights to JAM...toe or any other (for those of you who know how much I despise feet).

[dirtmodfan]

I just want to race. I am looking forward to my 3rd NEETS appearance. Should be fun. Anyone going to New Egpyt on the 7th? Dr D? Petey?

[Sac-Man]

Jammer Truck sounds like a good idea. I'm looking around to see what I can find.

[Nitty]

Im hoping to see a repeat of the first Grandview race ! Wide open racing is how I would describe it ! As far as the dead car issue goes, I fully understand both sides of the issue, and Im gonna sit in the stands for that as well ! Looking forward to seeing all the NEETS competitors for this one . Neets does it "GREAT" in the Dirt ,and Grandview is" Dirt plus" with its high banks . Just a side note here "All of you will be finnishing behind the 10 of Shon Elk " Shon raced from 49th (or last) to 4th at the Diamond 's last enduro , and was impresive the last time on the high banks ! Shon was among the top runners last time at Grandview.The top 12 or so were taking the track with them .(WIDE WIDE OPEN) . Good luck to all the drivers competing in this one . OH!
does anyone know if tickets are available yet for the SUN DANCE Ms. NEETS is doing for this race?

WE'LL be watching !!!!

[CJfilms]

Tickets will be $7 at the door to watch Ms NEETS do her little dance...as long as this time she doesn't stop or slow up around lap 80...we shouldn't have a problem!

[triplesevens]

I race at BDR and would also like to race at Grandview. However, I do not want to risk leaving my car in the racing groove or avoiding cars in the racing groove. As a driver, I avoid contact, try to preserve my car, and want to make as many races as possible. In order to race as much as possible, you need to consider and minimize the risks.

JMO - Leaving the dead cars sit in the racing groove increases the risk of damage to your car and greatly increases the risk of damage to the dead car. Most drivers are already depressed because their car failed to complete the race. Why cause additional pain to this driver by creating an environment that could result in complete destruction of his car?

I prefer that my car isn't wrecked and I don't want the cars of the other drivers wrecked either.

Hope to be racing with all of you in the future.

[dirtmodfan]

777,

When are you going to fix my bumper? I don't appreciate you hitting my bumper with your qtr panel. You fixed your car, now how about mine? LOL :cheers:

The auburn gazette will be calling you for an exclusive interview later today.

:cheers:

Shon

[EnduroFromDE]

I thought this was closed for discussion...?:confused::confused::confused:

Anyway...If you read the rules, one of the first thing in the rules are that these cars are suppose to be "JUNKYARD" style cars...The price of scrap metal is really coming down now...I got a freind in the junk yard buisness and he saying that scrape metal for a midsize car is now only about 300-400 $...so I dont know why people are having an issue with "denting" up a car where they can be soo easly replaced...yeah 500 might seem like alot to go and tear up a car every month...but the odds that your car is going to get destroyed ever race is very unlikly...even though you spend a handful of money for all the safty items, you only paying for them once...they can all be transferred to a "new" car. the most money you would be spending for a new car,...if you have to buy a new car, is max of $500 thats if you go out and get a nice car...get one that runs and shifts but might look like ...well you know...I think what im trying to say is quit 81tch1ng about the cars being left on the track...I wasnt around when NEETS for started but I was around when they were at their peak as far as car count...remember that Beaters race with 96 4cyls to start...I remember taking the green flag heading into turn 1...i was getting lapped down the back streightch before I took the green fllag...any way I kept the same 1992 for Escort until the last race of the 2006 season...I destroyed the car becuase of my own stupidedty tring to pass in the grass headed into turn three after it had rained...They were suppose to be mud+snow tires...:lol:...anyway I kept the same car for almost 3 years...But on the other hand I've seen one car, I think in the 2005 or 2006 season...the M0 car go through three or four cars in the 9 races we had...I think most were for motors maybe one was for damage...but not because his car was left on the track and got hit...I've only seen a dead car get "destroyed" in a race since I've been driving maybe three times a year...

Wow i think I might of got off subject a little here...I'll just sum this all up in one sentence...I would like to see the cars kept on the track where ever they die...

The end...and see ya alll sooon...

[NJ Chick]

Nobody said this discussion was closed Steven, silly!:) Our meeting isn't until the end of September, after that, a decision will be made. I'm glad that opinions are still coming in, it's good to hear from people that run at other tracks.

Speaking of other tracks, we were at Riverhead Raceway out in LI yesterday for their enduros. (1/4 mile asphalt high banked oval) They've been doing enduros since 1986. You want to see an enduro, let me tell you something. 52 cars started in the 8 cyl race and 10 finished. They leave the cars where they are, AND they do NOT stop the race to get the drivers out. The only time they throw a red is if a car rolls over either on it's side or it's lid, then it will get removed from the track. Other than that, it's wall to wall constant action. None of the cars/drivers left on the track got hit. When you get a flat or something else happens to your car, you go straight to the infield if you can make it, and your day is done, no pitting. Now some of you guys are saying, but only 10 out of 52 cars finished the race. They all know the rules, they all know what to expect, it's been done this way since 1986 there and you know what? There will be just as many cars there for the next one, there always is. Not saying that it's safe by any means, but just wanted to show how another track runs their enduros and that they still attract a lot of drivers.

As far as the sun dance goes, I've been doing some enduro dancing to build up to it, no slacking off at the 80 lap mark here!:lol:
Hey Nitty, why you trash talking for Sure Shot Shon? Are you his agent now?:applause:

[triplesevens]

Shon Elk has an agent.......I can't wait to spread that rumor around.

Shon, Maybe your agent "Nitty" can fix my quarter panel and your bumper.

[Nitty]

Hey I Like that ! But no , Not his agent , justa fired up racing fan (with too many non racing days in between) . Im actually pretty fired up to see this entire bunch take on the high banks again. It was awesome the first time. You probably want to stand clear of the fence in the turns , if your watching this one .I would recommend the 3rd and 4th turn bleechers ,where you get a great view of the onslought heading into 3 . If you check out the photos (Big Diamonds Enduro page )that were taken of the cars in 3 and 4 , they are 4 wide in the middle of the turn ,at one point. Crowded and wide open ,at first ,then it went to just wide open , and then wide open with a few obstacles ! Great stuff ! Just follow the no.10 fellas ! He knows the way around!

[EnduroFromDE]

post # 6 per Matt...Plain and simple CARS STAY ON THE TRACK! case closed I dont care either way, I just thought I would throw that out there. BUT I do love to read everyone giving examples and their opions though...so Cindys right keep on sending in post...and get those cars ready...hope to see a large car count like Im used to racin against...

[NJ Chick]

Oooops, you are right Steven I stand corrected! It's also written in his post #14, but remember that's Matt's opinion. Which he is entitled too just like all the rest of us. Who loves ya Mattie-Kins?:D Hope you'll be at the next one Steven!

One thing I forgot to mention about the 8 cylinder enduro races at Riverhead. They run not one 8 cyl race, but two. So if your car isn't too badly damaged from the first race, you get to go out again for redemption in the second one.

[bd motorsports]

Well i know i don't want to be a big bulls eye in the middle of the track with a bunch of cars coming at me. but then again it can seperate the skilled drivers from the ones that are just blind to all but the gas pedal. who knows i just mite come and race with neets crew i'm open to new things in life .So i vote for the JAMMER truck :wave::D ANOTHER VOICE FROM ANOTHER TRACK

[EnduroFromDE]

no problem Cindy...I just figured that Matt has the flags, he kinda has the last call...besides If he really wants to stop the race...he can just jump on out the tower again:lol::lol::lol:...that wasnt funny...im sorry....anyway...being I've been tring to rebuild and get this motor for my Pony-stock running I havnt had anytime to start to look around for an enduro car...I try to be there and watch though...Also my main reason in this post is so this thread ties for the third most replied thread in the NEETS forum...:applause::applause::applause: not the mention the number of replies to the greenflag314 site too...

P.S...on a side note that has nothing at all to do with anything I just wrote about...Where's Billy been...

[dirtmodfan]

I don't know that I like the sure shot thing. The guys I work with saw it on the board and have SERIOUSLY twisted it to much worse than sure shot.....if you know what I mean.

The Shon Shank Redemption was pretty funny too. Are we going to see you this weekend Cindy? How's the 75 doing?

777, you are hilarious... How many capt & cokes did you have on Labor day while I was working?

Hope to see everyone this weekend or next. :cool:

Shon :cheers:

[CJfilms]

Sure Shot huh? ...yeah, I will have to tear that one apart IN PERSON for you!

I am glad to hear everyone voicing their opinions here, but I have not been getting too many registrations!!! SEND THEM IN!!! DON'T WAIT UNTIL OCTOBER!!!

If we have 50+ cars registered by mid September, that will leave about a month of advertising a 50+ CAR RACE!!! ...which will attract more drivers out of the wood work than a 15 car race!

SO KEEP EM COMING!

And we needs a Jammer? Anyone with any ideas? Anyone with an old spare tow truck sitting somewhere?

Steve...that is a question we'll have to fill you in the next time we see you...come into the pits after the Frankenduro and we'll talk.

[NJ Chick]

Larry, that would be great if you ran with us! Get the car dirt ready and you can run at Grandview...we'll talk more at Bethel this weekend, if the hurricane doesn't get us:(

Sorry about the Sure Shot Shon!:p How about we call you "Roto-Rooter" because you can get through a clogged track in record time! You like?:lol: Yes, you will see us at New Egypt on Sunday! The Dirt #75 is ready to roll, however, the pavement pounder #75 is still in surgery getting a transmission transplant. Hey Roto, you have connections in the truck/car biz, got any possible Jammers laying around?

[bd motorsports]

Sorry cindy i will not see you at bethel this weekend i'll be in lake goerge for the weekend at a big car show finally taking some toys out of stoage and going to play alittle bit but i'll see you the week after have fun and i hope that dr.d does well see ya'll soon and i might have a hook on an old wrecker for you all i'll let you know at the track next weekend :wave: