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View Full Version : Mid-Season Rule Change???



Sac-Man
08-27-2008, 03:13 PM
Was item E. in the tire rule just added???
I sure don't remember a minimum treadwear 300 statement at the beginning of 2008.

Geno
08-27-2008, 04:06 PM
Hi John,

The guys had me add it last night. I was going to post a message on the forum today, but you beat me to it.

Erin C
08-27-2008, 04:28 PM
Now here's a good point...if it is just added and not communicated at the last enduro, would it be in effect for the up coming enduro? Not everyone has internet access...This is a question that should be asked to keep everyone in the loop!

Sac-Man
08-27-2008, 04:48 PM
This isn't against you Geno as I'm sure you were asked to do this by the powers that be.
You don't change the rules mid season!!!:mad:

If a certain someone finally gets all their ducks in a row and is too fast then you deal with that individual. The Mitsubishi Eclipses used to have to run on 6" tread width because of certain guys that were too fast. A certain someone has finished 6th before and has always been competitive but a lot of times ended up on the hook. So the guy finally gets a top 5 and gets DQ'ed. THEN THE RULES GET CHANGED! This isn't how to do it. The guy should have been given a break and asked to correct the infraction for the next race. This had been done time and time again.
I also saw scales for the first time in the tech inspection line?
THE RULES SHOULD NOT BE CHANGED MID SEASON!!!:mad::mad::mad:

I HAVE TIRES WITH A 200 TREADWEAR RATING THAT I BOUGHT FOR $42 EACH NEW. SO NOW WHAT???

mystic1582
08-28-2008, 12:14 AM
I'm not quite sure how to respond to the decision that the tech officials determined Sunday while what was painfully clear was a witch hunt to find fault and thus DQ the #8 car post race after the Enduro. I was brought into this form of racing through a friend and upon participating quickly got hooked. The reason for the attraction was the grass roots style of racing. While I don't care for the blatent hitting and bumping I accept it for what it is (enduro?, not like the 24 hrs....). I like to think I drive cleanly and after taking shots from several drivers repeatedly I have chosen not to retaliate even while being able to put the "hammer" down against a driver that was in contention for the championship after using my car as a cushion due to brake loss. I have had a lot of enjoyable moments at Mountain, I really like the track and the setting, and yes I have raced many other tracks, both drag and roundy round. I have met several new friends throughout the process and have helped at least one new driver get acquainted with the Enduro division @ Mountain, he now fills half the stands with family and friends, and I have gained respect for him as a driver (not personally though LOL, just kidding). I truely believe the Enduro class is a good one. I like to see how close I can get to any car without contact. It's relatively inexpensive and the wheel to wheel racing is priceless; trust me the other class we run is not so forgiving! I am and have always been willing to help anyone out with racing, and there is no pay back required. My point is?? I played by your printed rules and I lost because of the inspector(s) interpretation. Not the printed rules. I was also polite about it, perhaps I might not be thinking so clearly in the future. Now you force a mid season change in the rules? I realize Mountain is elevated but are you that close to "God like"?? thinking to change like this? You brag of an affordable series and for the next event you force several teams to upgrade to the 300 tread wear rule. Relax your BS mid season rule change and simply rewrite the rules to not allow the tire I was using....Which I have run for the last year that is...Don't take it out on the other teams. I'm pretty close to giving my entire enduro program to someone in need...I have other interests (racing) and I'm quite sure the right person would appreciate a gimme.... Steve Petry

Sac-Man
08-28-2008, 10:13 AM
You can change the rule book mid-season.
WAS ANYTHING ELSE CHANGED?
I'm sure others like myself print out a copy of the rule book at the beginning of the year. I guess I'll have to go through it line by line. But changing it mid-season under the cover of night creates a level of distrust.
I understand your right to change what you want, when you want.
I think everyone anticipates that when a 2008 rule book is published it will stay the same for the whole year. Your actions show a lack of integrity. I hope you will reconsider the change. Then delete this thread.
My understanding of the Mountain Madness Enduro Series tire rule was that you didn’t care about restricting tread wear because you were restricting the size to 195-60 (small car) and 235-60 (large car).
I know I don’t have a huge racing budget and I suspect others are the same. I made a tire purchase that was within the rules and if that changes between 2008 and 2009 it is a loss I can accept. Sure it is only $200 for all four tires but for me that’s a lot of money and now I have to try to scratch up some other tires for the next two races. If I choose to participate.

2xdan
08-28-2008, 12:15 PM
Get over it already,

no matter where you race, what division there is ALWAYS goning to be rule changes !

:wave:

broz
08-28-2008, 01:37 PM
Get over it already,

no matter where you race, what division there is ALWAYS goning to be rule changes !

:wave:

Actually dude, in MOST cases you don't see rules`changed within a given season :disgusted
That's what the "offseason" is for! Reflecting on the events of the "prior" season and determining if you need to change them for the next. Sounds like good common sense to me :applause:

Marv72
08-28-2008, 05:31 PM
I agree.

I run the 6/8 big car enduro at mountain and if they choose to change a rule for small car division mid season whose to say they can not change any of the rules in the 6/8 big car division.

I feel your pain. To finally place and then get DQ.

CJfilms
08-29-2008, 04:05 PM
Hey Sac-Man, let's go play behind circuit city...I know some people that work there, they'll let us tear the lot up!

As for changing rules...there has to be a clear cut reason behind the decision to do so. Though the message was not delived the best possible way, it is quite clear now to everyone that it has changed for the rest of this season...

The rules can change mid-season, but everyone needs to be informed and up-tdate on the topic...some people learn about new rules via internet, some learn new rules only when they get to tech after a race... The rules and the means of conveying such should be clear and available to each and every driver...they should all be aware of such rules/changes...and the kicker here is, if you want to play, you (the driver) are ultimately responsible to know what you are getting into. If the decision was made behind closed doors or on the fly Sunday afternoon, then there is no excuse.

I am not part of Mountain's enduro program other than taking photos...so I can't say which method of conveying new rules is being used... Although I can say this, it seemed pretty apparent that the change came at a quite contovertial time, I would have waited or announced the change and enforced it at the next race if it was something unchangeable that day in the pits...like a tire weight, you could just rip them off. Different tires...a little harder to come by on the fly.

Just be patient and stay aware of any changes that may be announced or slipped in...

Sac-Man...anytime, let's burn that rubber away!

Geno
08-29-2008, 09:05 PM
I talked to Mike today. Being that the tire rule addition wasn’t discussed at the last enduro driver’s meeting, the rule will not go into effect until after the 10/5 event. In other words, you can run your current tires for the next enduro, but the new tire rule will be enforced for the season-ending 150-lap “Halloween Screamer” events.

Also, I was told that the DQ on the #8 had nothing to do with tires. It had to do with front suspension altercations.

tonster#2
09-01-2008, 06:59 PM
i guess the only question i have for the officials at mountain is.........

why is that a car can have things on it that pass the beginning of the year
inspection to run @mountain, but they get DQ'd with them after a race?
right now i am trying to learn not just to race a car, but also what is always
going to be considered "ok" or "legal". it seems that the only way i, or any
other driver can figure this out is to race and hope to place in the money and then pray that you dont get DQ'd, and then if you get DQ'd just lose the points race for that year and then go back home and fix what ever it was that was illegal. not everyone is a racing or technical expert. give us a quarter so we can buy a clue.
i spent $60 for each tire that i have(200treadwear), and unfortunately i found a hole in one before the aug 24th race. i dont think i would have dropped the money for a new tire if i knew it was only going to be used for one race(not to mention the $29 to rush mail it)
other than that, i had a great time up there and i hope to continue to do so...
tonster#2

pappywrench
09-02-2008, 05:00 PM
Ok, Here's the scoop.
First, The #8 car was DQed for a preloaded sway bar. Most small cars are not adjustable but the big car guys all know that the spacer between the A-frame and the sway bar MUST be the same length. The #8 was not, thus it was considered pre-loaded.
Second, It will be as stated in a prior post your current tires can be run in October, but all cars will pass through pre-tech for that race. I don't really have an issue with 200 or more treadware,but when a tirerack 50 treadware(made for racing) tire shows up with a non conventional tread design, I do. Whats next a DOT approved Hoosier?
Trying to keep this class low buck with junkyard parts.

miller78
09-02-2008, 08:55 PM
i am tired of the 225/60 size for the big cars u cant find them in a used tire because i know i dont have the money to buy new ones at 80 buck a pop i want for 09 a 235/60 because u can find them anywhere in a used tire

richardpetey
09-02-2008, 09:10 PM
Well then, bust the guy who is breaking the rules with a racing tire not the 30 or 40 other guys following the written rules..................:disgusted
Don't change the rules in the middle of the season bust the guy who is violating the spirit of the tire rule...................:help:
If you wanna keep this series of yours bonestock using junkyard parts then you have to allow anything that would be found on that car in the boneyard.................................;)
Remember, there is a big distance between the two "I"s.............INTERPRETATION and INTENT.......................:eek:
UNCLE PETEY....................:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:
I know you have a rough job Pappy, on both ends, don't worry your still the man.....................:applause:

mystic1582
09-02-2008, 09:21 PM
You DQ'd the 8 car for a supposed preloaded sway bar. Then you add insult to injury by explaining that the big car class drivers all know that the spacers must equal each other...Well last I checked I have never ran the big car class and I also missed big car tech 101 which explains swaybar link tech. I read the rules and for the small car the swaybar can not be pre loaded. You know as well as myself, the Spotts driver that ran into me created significant damage to the right front several races ago, as well as bent the sway bar. Upon rebuilding the front end I hooked up one end of the sway bar and then cut a spacer to slide into the opposite side...thus no pre loading just like the rules say. NOTHING WAS PRINTED ABOUT UNEQUAL LINK OR SPACER SIZES. I offered to unhook one end and show that the bar would not move up or down and thus prove there was no pre loading but you explained that YOU tech per the spacer length not what the rules state. I understand you and you side kick were pissed off over the tires. They were legal per the rules and I bought them on close out for $50 each because they were sitting in the warehouse for 3 years. I also overheard the conversation regarding "we will get him on something, i.e. the sway bar" Ironically enough during our polite discussion I suggested that if I put the same size links on each side the sway bar would then be preloaded....and you smiled and expalined that that would be to my advantage then.... Petry #8

riceys1
09-03-2008, 09:18 AM
nobody said anything when we were allowed more camber and aftermarket air filters and that was a rule change after the first race.

Sac-Man
09-04-2008, 10:12 AM
You're right Bill. But if my memory serves me the air filter and camber discussion came out of the drivers meeting before the first race; then it was added to the rules and was expected. It is also a change in leniency, which is typically more acceptable than rules that are more restrictive.
Everyone has made some good points here and I think we all know the direction the tire rules are going. See you on the 5th...

Hey Joe, good to know about your in with Ciruit City! I guess after the 5th we can burn them off in their parking lot. The side lot is great! I've already gone over there twice to get some hot laps in...