The decision...

[CJfilms]

Ok...welcome everyone to a very long post...get your readin' glasses ready!

Before I start off with what needs to be said, I want to thank you all for asking this question...just kidding...I can't wait for this election to be over! Seriously, I am starting this post to announce something relevant to the upcoming race and possibly the future of NEETS racing 'conditions'. I want everyone who posts here to stay calm and collected in your responses, please no CAPS LOCK or big typing...the bigger the type is does not make a difference to me here and now...

To the drivers: If you have a response or want to add anything, please do so with respect to EVERYONE who will be reading this and not just who you support here...

To the crew members: Please don't feel that you do not have a voice here, we want to hear everyone, but remember the same rules apply to you as well.

And finally, the NEETS officials: Keep checking this post over the next few days or so and see if anything regarding your expertise comes up so that you can answer it... i.e. an in-depth tech question is best answered by Josh, not me.

And so, without any further ado...

Will NEETS move the cars from the track?

Yes AND No

First of all, enduro racing means endurance. When you build your car to race an endurance race, you are expected to have built that car to certain standards that will protect you while you are on the track. When you arrive at the track, ready to race an endurance race, you are expected to know what you are getting into. You are not about to run around in bumper cars, the cars on the track are FULL-SIZED vehicles. Although bumping and wrecking other cars is not the intention of the race, it is to be expected. It comes with the sport, period. You wouldn't go on a roller coaster and get mad if it makes you sick...you got on it by yourself and you decided to eat before you got on...

A NEETS Enduro is a style of racing in its own. You should expect to run with a multitude of cars on the track at one time. You should expect to see carnage...maybe even expect to be a part of the carnage. You should expect there to be some hard hits...some cars completely wrecked...some cars worth saving for the next race...some cars that make your car hurt just by looking at them! Enduro racing is only a step up from a rolling demo derby.

We do not promote intentional hitting...we have and will again throw a black flag at a competitor who is driving extremely rough. Rubbing is racing, it's an enduro there will be some rough riding, there will always be carnage. An enduro with no carnage will not draw attention of fans and the like...

So, will we move the cars? Yes and no...

The question is not simply answered by saying yes, move all the cars, or no, leave them where they lie.

The truth is, we will play it by ear...BUT, our guidelines will be as follows though:

1. If a car is high/low on the track, facing the right direction: it will stay there, we won't throw a red to remove the driver if they are high/low enough to be out of the groove.

2. If a car is sideways:
a. Sideways and high - it will probably stay there depending on how high and sideways it is and how high traffic is riding. Driver's side facing traffic will result in a red flag, driver removed, car in neutral.
b. Sideways and low - quite similar to the car being high...may need to be pushed straight though.
c. Sideways and IN THE GROOVE - Red flag, driver out, straighten the car...it stays!

3. If a car dies in the groove faced in the right direction:
a. going into a turn (end of a straightaway)- red flag, driver out, push the car low. Why? Cars move the fastest after barreling down the straights.
b. coming out of the turn (beginning of a straightaway)- it will stay until it is hit into a worse situation and needs to be moved or driver needs to get out.

4. If a car dies facing traffic: it will be depending on location and how the cars are running on the track.

5. If a car rolls:
a. INSTANT RED FLAG. Driver must be removed and checked by EMTs. If the driver is ok and the car (on 4 wheels) can start under it's own power, the driver will be allowed to keep running, but the race will start with the car in it's landing position...no pitting under REDS!
b. if the car is dead, it will be left there, pushed aside if deemed appropriate by one of the above rules.
c. CREW AND FAMILY, PLEASE DO NOT RUSH ONTO THE TRACK...We have EMTs there for a reason and they need room to work...one person/crew member come out onto the track but please do not get in the EMTs way.


Also to be noted as rules/guidelines...(issues from the last race)
If there is a VERY hard hit, either car-wall or car-car:
a. RED FLAG.
b. depending on if the car can run or not, you may finish the race but you can't have help from officials to get the car started.
c. if it is dead, the above rules will apply.

Waving your hands:
If your car dies and you are stuck on the track and you wave your hands to get out...we will throw a red if you are close to the groove and get you out...that car stays.
If you wave your hands during a red flag and we don't see you...we can't do anything about that we will not throw another red. If the race is red flagged and you want out...get out and get off the track...the car is not moving.

Fire:
If there is a fire:
a. if you pull off the track: GET OUT and GET AWAY...fire crew and officials will work to put the fire out. Once out, a NEETS official will determine if you can resume racing or not...no work/pit work other than extinguishing the fire can be done to the car.
b. if you do NOT pull off the track: Red flag, driver out, car is dead, above rules apply, period.

Pitting:
If you pit, you can work on the car.
If you pull into the infield and get out of your car...YOU ARE DONE! THERE IS NO INFIELD PITTING...DO NOT GET BACK IN YOUR CAR AND TRY TO FINISH THE RACE. We will stop scoring you and you will be removed from the track, via black flag.

End of the day:
Do not leave a dead car at Grandview Speedway without making an arrangement with BOTH NEETS OFFICIALS AND GRANDVIEW SPEEDWAY OFFICIALS FIRST!
Any cars left, dead or not, without prior arrangements made will become property of NEETS.

OK...that is that...

Again, we are going to have to play it by ear...there might not even be a need to throw a red flag... We are concerned with safety, but remember, plain and simple, this is an enduro...endurance racing. If the track gets blocked and it turns into obstacle racing...slow yourself up and drive with the flow, don't be the guy who hits a parked dead car that is not even in the groove because you lost control doing something foolish. Every driver out there is smart enough to know when enough is enough...pay attention to what is out there and keep your cool and you will pull through the race without having to worry about why we left a dead car there.

As we all know...and I hate to say this, but...the winner never gets out and complains about what was wrong with the race. If you are going to complain about everything that went wrong for you, you won't be having much fun...if you aren't having fun...then your hobby may have turned into a job. I wouldn't want my hobby to turn into work...enjoy doing what you do! Do it with pride and make sure you are having fun! We want everyone to have fun out there and I hate to pile on rules like this, but we are worried about safety, regardless of what some people think...we leave the cars because that is part of the sport. You came to race in this sport and we want you to have the most fulfilled experience possible...not just an enduro taste!

We are not here to run a factory stock race...there are no yellow flags...cars will be left on the track...there will be carnage. This is the sport and we do not intend to change it. We have conceded to move some cars based on the car counts...if we have 60+ cars in a race, we would not move the cars because the amount of traffic alone would slow up the race enough to allow for full-on enduro racing.

If you want to respond to this post, please do so with respect and patience and you will be heard and answered. If you (meaning anyone) rant and rave, no one will listen and nothing will change.

Matt and I make the calls on the track. Matt has more restraint that I do for keeping the enduro spirit true and when he makes a call that I am biased on, I respect his decision...and vice versa. When I am talking photos in the infield, if there is something I cannot see...well, that is why Matt is perched up in the flag stand... If there is something a flagger sees that Matt cannot...etc. We work together as a team and the decisions we make are final. Matt will not make a decision for me. Josh will not make a decision for Matt. I will not make a decision for Cindy. We make the decision together and one call is made. We may fight over each other, but the voice of reason will prevail and a call will be made. The call will be official and final regarding anything that may happen out there.

Lastly...
Transponders...are they more important than the drivers? No...they are not. We will remove them from the car if it is dead on the track, but if you prefer us to leave them in the dead cars we can do that...when you register and rent your transponder unit...please place an addition $450 deposit on top of your rental fee...(unit alone is $420 + rush shipping). Just specify to us that the unit must stay in the car. Deposit is non-refundable. I personally borrow the units from someone who is kind enough to lend us almost $20,000 worth of transponders...his only request is to remove them from any dead cars so nothing can happen...I don't think that is too much to ask for, but if you feel otherwise...we will be accepting deposits...fair enough? NEETS does not profit from the rental of transponder units.

[CJfilms]

Thank you all and see you soon!

By the way...get pre-registered! It is free to pre-register and guarantees you a draw for starting position...registering day of will start you in the back of the pack in the order you come up to the office to get registered...

[Sac-Man]

lol

looking forward to 4:00 Sunday...

[DEMotorsports]

Thank you Joe. Well said. :cheers:
Keep it safe to race another day.

Duane

[skor20]

i think it is fair decision thanks for all your time. cant wait to see you at the race.

[enduroracer131]

I agree with the decision, looks fair and makes sence. I wish I was racing this weekend.


If anyone needs a driver I will do it... I will be sitting in the stands otherwise.

[Maddawg]

blab,blab,blaaaaaaab---------- :lol: reading glasses :lol: I had enough time to eat dinner, and have a couple:cheers::cheers::cheers: while reading that!!!!!!!!!
ANYWAY, WELL SAID !!!!!!!!!!!!
keeping enduro's real, safe and fun:applause:
See ya Sun.
Dont forget about Sat.....;);)

[EPAEnduros.Com]

I must say Joe Cutri, you did it this time! You and your crew put on a GREAT show and things are getting better all the way around. I want to thank you, and your entire team of officials for your efforts and everybody in the pits for their friendships and comrodity throughout the day.

Based on what I saw yesterday in the small car (4cyl) race (can't say much for the big cars because there really wasn't much issues with dead cars in this one), it wasn't where the cars were left lie as much as it was the drivers getting around them. Here's a perfect example: Dave Bentley Jr and Lance Hoch are racing HARD for the lead between 90 and 105 laps into the race. Lance had the lead and Bentley was charging hard. Those two went at it for three laps. The first two laps, understanding the front stretch was almost completely blocked at this point and there was really only one groove to get through the carnage, Bentley had a slight advantage coming out of turn four but backed off and left Hoch lead his way down the front stretch and they resumed racing going into turn one. Lance had the line which would get the two through the front stretch carnage. On the third lap, Bentley had the advantage coming off of turn four and Lance didn't press the issue, he backed off knowing he was passed and once again they got through, resuming their racing going into turn one. This racing effort with these two enduro veterans taught me a thing or two about racing with dead cars.

Now on the contrary, Eric Wink parks his *cough* I mean Joe's truck coming out of turn two because of overheating issues after a red flag. The truck is permitted to sit in the turn as the green flag comes back out. Please leave me clarify myself before going on with this paragraph: The only reason I felt this truck should have been pushed out of the groove in the position it was left in is because it was sitting right where the contrast of sunlight and shadow were emerging on the track and in a blind spot for the drivers, right in the middle of the racing groove in the turn. Never the less I did talk to Kurt Spotts, the driver who punted the truck 3/4 of the way down the track eventually, and he said he saw the truck but because of a pushing condition in his #90 car was trying to lean on a car to the outside of him to get him to turn under the #17DD truck and the car shot to the outside quickly thus leaving him in a precarious position to NAIL the truck. Kurt was unharmed but after looking at his car... although he and his car owner were trying to figure out how to fix it, Kurt's dad told me it didn't look possible (in a few more words). This story brings up another issue with the new rules I think Joe and the officials need to take under consideration. When the #17DD truck came to a stop, it (luckily I guess) hit or at least nipped the corner of the backstretch infield jersey barrior or it was aimed directly towards what looked like a new truck (I want to say tow truck but I can't remember). The carnage in the front stretch also caused the #14 car (in a round about way) to spin wildly into a parked roll back in the infield as well, at the end of the race.

I like the new rules the way they're set up because it both promotes ENDURO racing as well as keeps things safe for everybody, but I think some tweeking needs to be discussed among you guys to protect the non-racing equipment in the infield that is there for the purpose of safety. Maybe leaving dead cars in "gear" rather then neutral could be thought about so at least these dead cars can still roll a bit if hit but not fly wildly all over the place as Joe's truck did on the backstretch could be a thought but I'm not an enduro expert like you guys are... although I promote you guys I'm still an amateur compared to your expertise. (don't take that statement sarcastically, I'm humbally telling the truth).

They're my thoughts on this weekend as far as the racing went, take them for what they are and from who they come from. (And you guys thought Joe wrote novels?) LOL.

Oh... and Joe??? Where's Spell check on your forums??? LOL

[EnduroFromDE]

ok I was going to comments on the same thing...maybe not leaving them in park or gear but maybe not aim them towards a saftey truck...I was on the back streatch when the balck truck was hit and it picked up speed heading down the steep banking...and moved the concrete barrier a few feet...amagin if that was the truck it hit...:(

I thought Joe was suppose to be in a skirt for the whole day...:confused: i showed up about 2 and he was already suited up in NEETS gear...

Also is Grandview going to be the primary track for NEETS in the coming years:confused:...If so I am going to be looking fo a car to build...never been there before Sunday...the track was great and looks a blast to race on...:applause:

[Sac-Man]

Although this wasn’t directed to me I wanted to comment from the drivers perspective. I thoroughly enjoyed racing at Grandview yesterday and I hope we can secure some dates to run there next season.:applause:
As a driver I prefer the dead cars left in neutral because if they are grazed/hit you hope they roll further out of the groove and it will lessen the damage to the hitter. At another track the tow vehicles are further away from the racing surface and less likely to get hit. I also think the tow vehicles may be staged behind Jersey barriers.:help:
I also have to say as I said before it is exhilarating and terrifying to be driving that fast through the dead cars. At one point I made advances on (I believe) the 48 car and my hope was that he would back off or take the center passageway through the dead cars on the front stretch. Instead we tried to make 2 cars fit in a space only wide enough for 1.5. I’m glad I didn’t hit the light pole, as it is hard to steer with your wheels off the ground.:eek:
I was also told by others that the 14 appeared to clip me intentionally causing me to hit the dead truck on that last lap and him to loose control spinning into a tow truck that in my opinion was too close to the race track. I will say there are drivers learning and you never know what someone will do. I don’t think I did anything to the 14 to warrant any payback? I also believe enacting payback is a two edged sword. I can tell you that although it was a glancing blow to the dead truck it still put a sting through my body that you can’t explain; you can only experience.
It was great to have 40+ cars out there but it still was not enough to have dead cars around the track to keep the speeds down. I hope everyone enjoyed the show and that we can get to the point where there are 60+ cars, which would slow things down. I know a lot of cars/trucks were heavily damaged, mine included; but I will do my best to put my car back together to race another day, because it is what I love to do.

[EnduroFromDE]

Maybe that 14 had somthing against Fugly Racing...:lol: He took out Dave Jr towards the begining and sent you airborn...but dont worry Dave Sr. was there to take care of buisness for ya's...:angel: Im sure not all intenal but it seemed that way, I think Kenny was involved too... oh well like you said get that car back on the road...or dirt.. and lets have some more fun...You or Dave wouldnt have any spare Enduro cars lying around would you...?

[don38]

First off, i like to thank Joe and Erin for putting on such a great show at Grandview. Also a special "Thank you" for the two tow trucks drivers that went out of there way to help my get my wrecked 3 wheel truck onto my trailer. But now on a serious note, It was clearly stated at the drivers meeting that anyone "intentionally" dumping other cars would be black flagged. This was not the case during the small car race. Car#8 Car#520 and especially car#3 blatantly and without any disregard for anyone safty spun cars out. They drove like a bunch of pissed off teenagers, and i dont call that racing. With that being said, I hope next year the officals will use the black flag more often on these ruff riders before someone gets hurt really bad.

[FSracer9]

wow, yesterday was an amazing experiance for me. first time on dirt and brought home a top ten finish in the small cars. the only thing i think could have been better is communication about black flagging. i was running very cloe to a car being black flagged and was confused when the flag was pointed at me so i pulled off, but nothing was wrong with my car so i was left back out with no problem, but it probly cost me a lap.

other than that the race was great and clean.

[Sac-Man]

Ok, google Gary Silverman productions and you will see he’s got the video clips up already. He is good and I’ll be buying my copy shortly.:applause: So I took flight after contact with the 54 car. I spoke to Jeff at the end of the race and again; two guys competing for the same small opening.:eek:
Ditto from me on the tow truck operators; I needed and appreciated their help.:applause:
If you watch the clip you will see what Donnie is talking about. There are some guys that look like they think they’re driving in the Pagoda Motorcycle Clubs junk car race. If you don’t know contact is mandatory, but the difference is that it’s an eighth mile dirt track. Hardly the speeds we’re pushin’. Anyway the video speaks for itself…:rolleyes:

[RGeeProductions]

You can find Gary's videos here (http://www.garysilvermanproductions.com/).

[CJfilms]

First off, that you all for these kind words here.

I have been hearing a lot about rough driving. I would like to believe that most of the people who come to race at a NEETS race understand the difference between enduros and demos...the problem being is that we had a lot of new faces this time and I should have stressed the fact a little clearer...I accept the blame here, I 'may' have prevented some intentional hitting. Problem is...when I explain the concept of NEETS to a newbie or an interested driver...most people think instantly, DEMO DERBY!!! I explain the rules and such in short, but they get revved up about smashing each other rather than the ordinary racing they do each an every week. I try to be clear explaining things...but sometimes, people only hear what they want to hear... Take me for example...I only listen to Erin AFTER she smacks me and says "are you listening?". .....of course I was....

The 17dd truck in turn #2...
1.) Yes, bad position.
2.) We got the driver out, we could have easily moved the truck down.
3.) It is/was MY/ERIN's truck.

1 - It was in bad position, no doubt about it. We said at the driver's meeting, dead cars at the end of the turn would remain for the most part. This may have been a bad position, but it was facing the right direction and at the end of the turn...

2 - Eric was removed as he should have been and he was ok...the motor is scrap though. With the red flag out, it would have been easy to move the now dead truck off the track...but #3 below explains why not...

3 - Let me explain my thinking behind the decision to leave the truck lie there... It starts with the #38 of Don Nelson. Don came from Long Island to race with us at Grandview. Don's truck got wrecked and was left on the track. ... My truck got wrecked...why should I move it? I know that my truck is out there with the same chance to get wrecked at any time... I can't bend the rules for my benefit and let Don go home with a wrecked truck and just say to him, "Well, you know how it is...". Also, if anyone did have a scanner tapped into our official's line... It was pretty apparent that the option to move the truck was thrown out there. Several people said it, "Joe, its your truck out there, you want us to move it?". No. It was a small sacrafice to make to keep the playing field even... BUT!!! But, just remember...I still have another truck for Winky Jr. to play with!

Kurt, I am sorry your car got wreck in the midst of things...I had high hopes for you in that car! I guess I'llhave to see you in a different car next time right? ;)

Don, I lost my truck yesterday as did you...you had a blast while you were out there and I had a blast watching my truck race...in the end, we both had fun...isn't that what this is all about?

[gutter7]

JK Joe they're already looking for another car. I like the dead car rule, like Kurt said "sure will keep guys from spending a ton of money to build racecars for this". we'll be back.

[champ1995]

hey folks im new to your forum but hardly new to racing!!! 30 years of everything from nascar super trucks to the four cyl. div. at my home track,White Lake Speedway The boys and girls are gettin their act together and it can only get better!!! again my hats off to you guys great job !!!! hope you all can see the way through the fog to get some dates at our track it would be a blast to have yas here!!! Gary"O",Steel Horse Fabrications New York

[mystic1582]

This looks like a great time! I can find a running car for $500.00 bucks. I buy a roll cage for $300.00....I put in seat belts for $70.00 I also spent a few hundred more dollars to get it running well and pay for misc. stuff...not to mention the $300.00 I spent on a helmet, $300.00 on a firesuit and another 100 greenbacks for gloves, horsecollar and mabey shoes. I do all the work myself and save countless $$$$$ Now I fuel up the tow vehicle, pay my admission and then car registration..So lets see here...I got mabey $1600 total "invested" in my ride and some Jacka$$ stuffs me into...insert line....another car, wall, spins me, tow truck....etc etc...And It really amps me up to build another ride and do it all over again!!!! only to have another Ja$$ do it at another race????? Seriously...I really like the Enduro "concept" but get a grip on reality...it is not cheap to build a disposable car..and the whole sermen about black flagging rough driving blah blah is a bunch of crap. There are clearly two paths of thought here..mabey more...Joe Blow wants to endure the race; make it to the end.....and then there are the chosen few...."I'm gonna wreck everything that I can or can't pass". The latter needs to stay at the figure eight track and stop watching the SPEED channel when the truck's towing the trailer are racing and collecting each other...

[EPAEnduros.Com]

Mystic I hear ya and feel your pain.

Please allow me to explain who I am for those who don't know. My name is Jim Evans Jr, I hail from a small town about 10 miles from Big Diamond Raceway who holds their own form of enduro racing. This is where I actually watched my first enduro race in September of last year (2007). Prior to this my original contact with enduro racing was when Penn National Speedway held enduro events. I read about what they were all about through their advertising description and said to myself "I'm sooooooooo not wasting my money watching a glorified demolition derby as cars try to go around in circles". Unfortunately for me though, what Penn National Speedway ran was the "pure form" of enduro racing and what NEETS tries their best to emulate. Not exactly though. Before you get confused, my misconception of what I read as to what an enduro race was all about through the description wasn't what Penn National was running because "Pure Enduro Racing" isn't about demolition derbies.

Continuing who I am: I'm the founder and webmaster of the EPA Enduros website (located at www.epaenduros.com - as my screen name here says). The purpose of my website is to promote ALL FORMS of enduro racing regardless of the rules so the turnout in the grandstands becomes something you racers deserve. Since my first enduro event attended was just over a year ago, I'm going to openly admit I'm a novice when it comes to everything about enduro racing and I'm learning more and more after every event I go to. One of the greatest issues I encountered this season was when I got involved in helping Joe Cutri and the NEETS group from suggesting a track for them to check out to see if they could run it, to helping to promote the show, to writing up the article for them for their website (and mine) after the show was concluded, to having to humbly apologize for my ignorance when Joe and I batted heads.

Do I agree with everything NEETS stands for? No. Joe & I have discussions all the time about things and he knows full well where I stand both personally and professionally. Am I willing to criticize NEETS for what they do? Constructively maybe, but professionally I have a very firm stance. We live in America which (so far unless a certain somebody gets elected president and we turn into the Unbearable Socialistic Anarchy), and one of the greatest things about the America I was born in is everybody has the freedom to run things as they see fit. On the same note, we as Americans have the same freedoms to CHOOSE where we want to race our cars/trucks. Yes, you've pretty much (unless you get very lucky or know somebody), nailed the cost of building a car. Now that your car is built, you have a choice as to where to race it. If you feel the NEETS program is too rough for you, or you don't feel the rules aren't something you want to risk your car's well being racing under, guess what... you have the right to not race. Nobody's twisting your arm, nobody's holding a gun to your head either.

These guys are a great group of guys *cough* and gals... from Joe himself, to the officials, to the individual drivers, to the crew members and it's rubbing off onto the track employees when NEETS uses their track too. The pits, during a NEETS show, is like a big (alcohol free) party!!! If you have issues on the track and have to pit, chances are you won't be hurting for any help because the neighbors you pitted next to's crew will be racing back to your area along side your crew.

In closing (and I seriously apologize for getting long winded again), I don't agree with this set of rules but never the less I promote these guys as much as I do my home track of Big Diamond Raceway, Mountain Speedway and New Egypt Speedway because the environment in the pits is all about the enduro "family". Only rather then the feuding cousins type family, these guys are all for having fun and the safety of their competitors and friends and they prove that both on the track and in the pits. You're going to have some numbskulls who, like me originally, are going to ram rod you thinking they're running in a circular demo derby but these drivers are highly in the minority and will learn (as I have learned).

Bottom line... the choice is yours my friend.

[CJfilms]

Do I agree with everything NEETS stands for? No. Joe & I have discussions all the time about things and he knows full well where I stand both personally and professionally. Am I willing to criticize NEETS for what they do? Constructively maybe, but professionally I have a very firm stance. We live in America which (so far unless a certain somebody gets elected president and we turn into the Unbearable Socialistic Anarchy), and one of the greatest things about the America I was born in is everybody has the freedom to run things as they see fit. On the same note, we as Americans have the same freedoms to CHOOSE where we want to race our cars/trucks. Yes, you've pretty much (unless you get very lucky or know somebody), nailed the cost of building a car. Now that your car is built, you have a choice as to where to race it. If you feel the NEETS program is too rough for you, or you don't feel the rules aren't something you want to risk your car's well being racing under, guess what... you have the right to not race. Nobody's twisting your arm, nobody's holding a gun to your head either.

These guys are a great group of guys *cough* and gals... from Joe himself, to the officials, to the individual drivers, to the crew members and it's rubbing off onto the track employees when NEETS uses their track too. The pits, during a NEETS show, is like a big (alcohol free) party!!! If you have issues on the track and have to pit, chances are you won't be hurting for any help because the neighbors you pitted next to's crew will be racing back to your area along side your crew.

In closing (and I seriously apologize for getting long winded again), I don't agree with this set of rules but never the less I promote these guys as much as I do my home track of Big Diamond Raceway, Mountain Speedway and New Egypt Speedway because the environment in the pits is all about the enduro "family". Only rather then the feuding cousins type family, these guys are all for having fun and the safety of their competitors and friends and they prove that both on the track and in the pits. You're going to have some numbskulls who, like me originally, are going to ram rod you thinking they're running in a circular demo derby but these drivers are highly in the minority and will learn (as I have learned).

Bottom line... the choice is yours my friend.

I'm Joe Cutri...and I approve this message.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::-B

[Maddawg]

After all is said and done, I have to say I agree with Joe,NEETs and their decision to leave "dead" "broken cars on the track. That is what ENDURO'S are about!!!!!!!!!!! To ENDURE..... Drive smart,safe,clean and most of all finish!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah some should be moved out of the groove ect.
Not everyone will always agree with officials decisions, but thats what officials are for. to make rules,decisions and follow them!!!!!!!!!! period!!!!!
Yeah you all know Joe and Erin are friends of ours, and my son Eric was driving their truck. and when it broke it was left on the track. bad place well I think so and I'm sure some other people do too, but like Joe said in fairness to all "HIS" truck was left on the track!!!!!!!!! in neutral with wheels turned toward infield (hey remember that one,it might help you some day!!!!!) unfortunately "Little Dude" was forced into the back of it and ended up wrecking his car too....
They are also friends of ours,and we will help them find and build a new car for the next race. Isn't that what friends are for. after all I am the one who got them "hooked on enduro's" in the first place.
Thank you NEETS for making rules,decisions and sticking to them.......... no matter who you are,or who's car,truck someone is racing......... in fairness to all !!!!!!!!!!!:cheers
MADDAWG
417-12

[mystic1582]

Funny thing...there's this race they call the 24 hours of Le Mans....They call it an endurance race of all things...and have done so since 1923..and in all the years of racing they have never left a dead player on the track....what a concept!

[Maddawg]

after reading the other posts , Now I have some more to say !!!!!!!!! first off, yes all safety vehicles and tow trucks and their personell should be behind barriers period!!!
second, leaving "dead or broken" cars in PARK is absolutely STUPID !!!!!!!!!!!
we all saw how hard the impact was when Kurt hit the 17dd truck -----the truck rolled toward the infield and stopped when it rolled into a barrier. and guess what there was a tow truck behind that barrier exactly where it belonged. No one was harmed or hurt in anyway!!!!!!!!!!!:):):)
Now imagine if that truck was in park----------the impact would have been much harder and "little Dude ' probably would have been hurt. All in all we are all glad that nobody was hurt in this particular senario!!!

Now instead of *****ing and bringing out all the negatives we need to all work together and come up with POSITIVE SOLUTIONS that will make the sport that we all love smarter and safer for everyone


thanx for caring
Eric "lil maddawg" Wink
17dd- 21

[EPAEnduros.Com]

To clear things up a little bit, I didn't suggest putting the vehicles in park, I said about putting the vehicles in gear... big difference. Putting vehicles in park basicaly is like putting a 4000lb metal baracade in the middle of the track which is stupid. Putting vehicles in drive or in say 3rd gear for manual transmission vehicles does almost the same thing as putting them in neutral without the free roll in the cases when hit as hard as Kurt's car hit Joe's truck. I wasn't the one complaining about this... I was merely making a suggestion to try to better things for the future. Somebody else included using "park" with my suggestion thus creating the confusion I think.

I don't pretend to be perfect nor do I pretend to think I'm right about anything. I see what NEETS is trying to do with their shows and 90% of their shows are outstandingly run (including the concept of dead vehicles on the track). However their are flaws to the system and with the hopes of straightening out some of these flaws, I merely suggest things which may help. Let's face it Maddog & Lil Maddog, in a perfect world we'd have 120 cars on a 1/3 mile high bank oval and nobody'd be in a hurry to go anywhere which is where the perfect scenereo would be for leaving dead cars on the track. Unfortunately though with only 30 or 40 cars, dead cars become high speed obsticles regardless if left in neutral, park or gear which isn't the perfect scenereo regardless how you look at it. The great thing about 80% or more of the drivers who race (anywhere), you guys are conscience of this situation and are willing to give and take with your competitors as they also give and take and this is what makes Enduro class racing (regardless of the track or the rules) the best form of racing anywhere.

[CJfilms]

I will admit I am a little holey...not holy... We are perfecting this series to be what everyone would hope to expect or at least expect us to be. Erin and I were dropped into the fire to take on this role and it will take time and experience before the holes are filled in correctly.

Anyone who has raced with NEETS since we took over will notice how we have evolved and things have changed...it can only get better, so please, someone, anyone...everyone!!! RAISE THE HEAT UP SO WE CAN KEEP GETTIN' BETTER!!!!

Thanks everyone!

[WEEZER]

So who won and where are the results???

[EPAEnduros.Com]

Joe posted the results in the thread called "Frankenduro results" or you can click on this link to go there: http://www.racerhub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16572

Duane Eidem won the big car (6/8 cylinder), and Dave Bentley Jr won the small car.

[don38]

I had a blast this Sunday at grandview, Most fun I had in a while. After my crash I was dazed and confused but not mad my truck was left on the track, I understood the rules, That all cars facing the right direction and out of high speed areas will be left on the track. I just think the black flag should have been used a little more.
:wave:

[Maddawg]

I just want say "I had a franken-good time" probably one of the most fun enduro's I have been in a long time !!!!!!!!! Keep up the good work and I can't wait till next years schedule is finalized;);) were all in for some really cool surprizes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maddawg
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