Joe, I got a ????

[gutter7]

With the 4cyl. issue "rolling under red" Why not use the transponders?
If the cars in question were sitting on the back stretch in the same order they crossed the line you have a non issue.:confused:

[Erin C]

But then that would take up too much time moving people around to fix how they are on the track..they should come to a safe stop and not gain positions. This is why we state in the rules, if you gain a position under red you will be docked a lap. Some people do not have an advantage by moving under red because they are so many laps down it wouldn't matter to move them and they just need to be spoken to when brought to our attention. Cindy, myself, and even our announcer watch the top 3-5 positions for movement under red because they would have the most advantage with the movement as well as any blatant movement.

We cannot keep our eyes on EVERY car and it is a waste of time making sure that the cars that passed the loop are in the exact same order and if they are not, move them (that would make us more like a Saturday night show and this is an Enduro so it doesn't really fit). Everyone should know the rules and therefore should know the penalties and be ready to ACCEPT the penalties when they do break a rule. For those who it wouldn't matter if I take a lap off or not and they still move under red and are caught, I have no problem stopping scoring them if they consistently have a habit of it, it would only make my job easier. Not my call to make, but that is what I would do. I won't stand for any form of cheating when we bust our butts every day of our life to keep this series alive.

Thanks for the suggestion Al, it is a great idea but I think moving people would just take too long, but I can get an idea of who is moving if I look at the passings verses what I see on the track so I know who to watch out for.

[CJfilms]

Maybe I should restate (reword) it at the next drivers meeting....

I say everytime, when we throw a red flag, brig your car to a slow stop...slow stop does not mean roll around the speedway unti lthe car glides to a stop.

IF and WHEN we see a car rolling under red, I keep making the call for all cars to stop over the scanner (another issue...). At the meeting, we ask the drivers to wave their hands in the car when a red comes out to let the driver behind you know to stop as well...and also that you are stopping your car.

Sometimes, it is simple that one or two cars continue to race and either don't don't have scanners or are already past a flagger when the red comes out to notice it.

The issue at hand is as follows, we throw the red, cars slow down but keep rolling. Erin said it and I'm saying it again. We state the rules at the meeting, and as the driver you are to understand and obey these rules or be willing to accept the consequences. We had an issue on the front stretch when three cars rolled past the #44 who stopped just before the line...the three cars were moved back. Why do we move some and not others? Easy answer...position.

When a car rolls 100/200 feet too far, we can easily move them back...
When a car rolls 1/2 or 1/3 the way around the track, we're not going to spend an extreme amount of time moving one car back...we are going to dock the lap. There were two red flags thrown during the Small Car race, the issue that was brought up was who moved under red for position...this issue will be reviewed once we have the video in our hands...between now and that time, there is no reason for anyone to rush/demand an instant answer. Once we do our review, we will make a final judgement call on this issue. No one is even remotely close to being DQ'd over it, but points may be adjusted if necessary. If movement under red by a competitor is obseved, and they will not gain/lose a position based on docking a lap or not, nothing will change.

Again, no instant answer can be given on this issue until we do our review of both notes and videos...so please, before anyone feels like they are getting the raw end of the deal, let us do our due diligence first...besides, at how many other enduro events are the officials willing do review anything after the checkered is thrown?

Thank you all once again, great show, great racing!

[gutter7]

There is a good chance it won't be on video.... but if an official said car X advanced his position and the scoring system says no car X has been ahead of those cars you don't have to review anything. Thats why Grandview went to the instant scoring.

[Erin C]

I know exactly what you mean. During a red I can take a quick look at the field and compare it with what the computer shows and make a call from there. I try to give everyone the benefit of a doubt with one chance when it seems like they couldn't stop as quick as everyone else and "barely" passed, but when it is blatent I will not tollerate it.

[CJfilms]

SHE WILL NOT TOLERATE IT!!!!!

:help::help::help::help::help::help::help::help:
:help::help::help::help::help::help::help::help:
:help::help::help::help::help::help::help::help:

:applause::applause::applause:

:angel:

[crazyfriend]

There is a good chance it won't be on video.... but if an official said car X advanced his position and the scoring system says no car X has been ahead of those cars you don't have to review anything. Thats why Grandview went to the instant scoring.

Only a spectator at grandview /neets but -When the red was out a few cars went part way around others took a little longer to slow down n stop but they were NOT top cars okok maybe 1 time car# &) kept goin but hey it's all for fun UNLESS you are living on your winnings which I doubt , RED means STOP unless your from Jersey then it means fly faster befor ya get caught :lol: If you half way threw red light do YOU Stop suddenly or go till you are across ??? Stop on a dime n get WHACKED or come to a decent safe stop ........ IF YOU ARE ABOUT TO HIT CRITTER PLEASE SWERVE around him even if you have to enter the infield .....

[critter]

good point crazy , im just a little upset with the whole issue , i guess some people dont care , im hopin i can come up with the money to fix it , just very upsettin had a good car saved it from the wreck and he kept on comin under red ,still have the yellow paint on my fender

[Lad3der]

its all part of enduro racing. this isnt a saturday night show with 15-20 cars and yellow flags and time to reline everyone up. the reds are out for a safety concern and once the track is clear we go back to racing. we do move cars back when the y do move under red. there were three cars on the front stretch of the big car race that were moved back since we had the time. other wise we Do dock you one lap for moving under red. no matter where you are in the field wheter it be first or last or any were in between. i invited you to spend a day in our shoes just to see what we go through under reds.

[crazyfriend]

its all part of enduro racing. this isnt a saturday night show with 15-20 cars and yellow flags and time to reline everyone up. the reds are out for a safety concern and once the track is clear we go back to racing. we do move cars back when the y do move under red. there were three cars on the front stretch of the big car race that were moved back since we had the time. other wise we Do dock you one lap for moving under red. no matter where you are in the field wheter it be first or last or any were in between. i invited you to spend a day in our shoes just to see what we go through under reds.

hmmm a day in your shoes kewl but no thanks they must be sweaty n smelly by time yas get done , I aint complaining how ya do your jobs it's the drivers who need to watch out for the red flag , I luv the way ya have your races thats why we keep coming back it's awesome watchin ppl who don't stop or SLIDE when hitting their brakes fast cough cough critter ya were facing wrong way when ya got hit so you tried to be nice but got hit anyways . ok day in your shoes I'll wear my own shoes n give it a shot just to see what you all go threw would be kewl to see it all upfront . did you ever think to chance off tickets ?? spend a day in our shoes see our views just $10 a day of course we'd have to sign contract that we would be responsible for whatever happens while we view the neets peeps...... Congrats again ya do a wonderful job too :cheers:

[Danger83Ranger]

Personally, I cant believe people are complaining about this. We all know that neets enduros are a great thing and i for one am happy to be a part of it. lets not ruin this good thing and just let them do there job. they do the best they can and thats all we can ask for. its not like there out there not caring what goes on. Organizing and running events like this are very hard, and I also believe they all have full time jobs am I correct? Remember, this isnt weekly modified or sprint car racing. Good luck to all in the next event.

another thing I forgot to add...I went to sit in the stands after I loaded up from the small car race, there were some very rude people behind my family (3 and 1 year old kids included) screaming the f-bomb and what not because of a little tap to the rear bumper while racing. Am I wrong to ask them to be a little more courteous? Because they thought so...lol

[Erin C]

You are not wrong at all to ask them to watch their language. If they have a problem with it, point them in my direction after the races...That is one thing I can't stand, cursing and rude behavior in front of children.

And yes, we do have full time jobs as well...I am at work right now ;)

[gutter7]

No i'm not complaining, and they do a good job, but when a call is made involving cars that run up front all race every race it could have been settled with out question. jmo.

[NJ Chick]

Only a spectator at grandview /neets but -When the red was out a few cars went part way around others took a little longer to slow down n stop but they were NOT top cars okok maybe 1 time car# &) kept goin but hey it's all for fun UNLESS you are living on your winnings which I doubt , RED means STOP unless your from Jersey then it means fly faster befor ya get caught :lol: If you half way threw red light do YOU Stop suddenly or go till you are across ??? Stop on a dime n get WHACKED or come to a decent safe stop ........ IF YOU ARE ABOUT TO HIT CRITTER PLEASE SWERVE around him even if you have to enter the infield .....


When the red comes out, don't throw out the anchor, you roll to a safe stop WITHOUT advancing your position or racing to the transponder line. I don't care if you are in 1st place or 51st place, same rule applies to ALL! It's a matter of safety. Red also means you don't go into the pits. As it stands now, you are penalized a lap for going into the pits under red. However, in my opinion, I think it should be an automatic DQ. Why? For instance, in the big car race the #10 car caught fire next to the pit entrance gate, two cars cruised right by him and into the pits. Fortunately, it was a little fire that was quickly extinguished, but if it wasn't, that had potential for a real enduro barbeque. Use your heads out there, stop safely on red as soon as you see the lights, hear Joe on the scanner or see the red flags waving. Stay where you are until the green flag is displayed, THEN make your way into the pits. Just want to see you all be able to return to race another day.:wave:

What was that crack about Jersey????;)

[Danger83Ranger]

Dirty Jersey? no im just kidding...lol.

gutter7, i was referring more to the crowed behind me that was complaining and cursing about the red flag situations. i understand your point completely. all im saying is its tough to keep an eye on all competitors when red flags come out. the transponder, how does the instant scoring work? i thought it only registered when crossing the line and that is why the modifieds, late models etc etc go back to the previous lap before a red or caution. is that correct?

[Danger83Ranger]

You are not wrong at all to ask them to watch their language. If they have a problem with it, point them in my direction after the races...That is one thing I can't stand, cursing and rude behavior in front of children.

And yes, we do have full time jobs as well...I am at work right now ;)


im also at work, dont tell my boss! im hoping to get a raise and promotion soon...lol. :D

[tbirdracer]

jmo, maybe a yellow flag if it is not a roll over. the drivers slow down, then throw the red. it is hard, as a driver, to sTOP quick. some react faster then others. all drivers should act as if the red is out for them, how would you fell if it was you that was hurt or just rolled over. not a good feeling. again neets put on a great show and keeps enduros old school. as for full time jobs we all know critters is posting here. COME ON JOE PAY THE MAN FOR ALL THE FUN TIMES WE HAVE WITH HIM!!!!!:lol::lol::lol:

[miller78]

when i race mountain enduro the guy on the scanner says red....red.....red and by the 3rd red all the cars are stopped idk if u guys do that down there but it might be worth a try

[crazyfriend]

another thing I forgot to add...I went to sit in the stands after I loaded up from the small car race, there were some very rude people behind my family (3 and 1 year old kids included) screaming the f-bomb and what not because of a little tap to the rear bumper while racing. Am I wrong to ask them to be a little more courteous? Because they thought so...lol

Well wasn't us using F-bomb thats for sure we had older peeps infront of us ones who would wash our mouths out or took us to school lol. Sorry your children had to hear those words but send them or report them to the neets peeps I am sure they'd like to have a few words with them .We were by a driver n his family ( think it was poppop as they announced it ) down to earth friendly people .Great job

[crazyfriend]

When the red comes out, don't throw out the anchor, you roll to a safe stop WITHOUT advancing your position or racing to the transponder line. I don't care if you are in 1st place or 51st place, same rule applies to ALL! It's a matter of safety. Red also means you don't go into the pits. As it stands now, you are penalized a lap for going into the pits under red. However, in my opinion, I think it should be an automatic DQ. Why? For instance, in the big car race the #10 car caught fire next to the pit entrance gate, two cars cruised right by him and into the pits. Fortunately, it was a little fire that was quickly extinguished, but if it wasn't, that had potential for a real enduro barbeque. Use your heads out there, stop safely on red as soon as you see the lights, hear Joe on the scanner or see the red flags waving. Stay where you are until the green flag is displayed, THEN make your way into the pits. Just want to see you all be able to return to race another day.:wave:

What was that crack about Jersey????;)

OH boy Imma in for it lmao :cheers: When in Jersey do as Jersey ppl when light is red hit the gas go fast :lol:

[Poppop]

:wave:Thanks for your kind words, I'll pass it on to my friends and family, but I must add that I do have to practice my OH Darns! a little more myself.

Kenny (Poppop) Brown

[CJfilms]

The transponder, how does the instant scoring work? i thought it only registered when crossing the line and that is why the modifieds, late models etc etc go back to the previous lap before a red or caution. is that correct?

That is correct!

Once the cars are all stopped, we could potentially line them all back up according to the previously finished lap. The issue there is that is not enduro racing. We don't stop the race (on the computer) at all. That is why there are some laps that are 20 seconds long and some that are 5 minutes.

If we throw the red flag and once all the cars are stopped, line them up accordingly, we would extend each red flag from a possible couple of minutes to 10/15+ mins. each time....

With this race, the big car race had to be stopped, time after time, seven total I believe.

Add another 70 some odd mins. in to that time frame and now the race becomes boring with many delays.... Now, that is not always the case either! Some races have gone green to checkered...

Point being, we stop the race, remove the incident, start the race back up. This is one of the key points that separates an enduro from a Saturday night show.

Moving cars around is questionable at best, it is based on how far they went after the red and how many cars kept moving... There have been instances where the entire field of cars hesitated and kept racing before everyone came to a stop...instead of penalizing the whole field or 90%+, we cannot enforce anything without making a seemingly bad call/effort. We have three officials in the tower, four on-track. Between seven sets of eyes, most are focused on the incident at hand...is the driver ok?, is there a fire?, where are the infield crews?, etc...

When we see cars moving under red, we make the effort to move them back if possible...I said it before, we are not going to move one car backwards 1/2 around the track... If we can move them back in a straight line or only a few car lengths, then so be it. If we cannot, they lose a lap.

All of this has been discussed at the driver's meeting. When I ask, numerous times too, are there any questions....speak up, no matter how obvious you think the answer might be...no matter if you might be embarassed by asking it...it is the only way to be certain. The best way to be the best is learning from the best! ....best....:-B

Also, Aaron, we do use scanners at Grandview....that is another issue though.... :(

[Danger83Ranger]

good stuff. thats what i love about enduro racing, less rules! lol. our team spends A LOT of money to run grandview in the modifieds weekly, this is a much cheaper way to turn laps. :)

[crazyfriend]

:wave:Thanks for your kind words, I'll pass it on to my friends and family, but I must add that I do have to practice my OH Darns! a little more myself.

Kenny (Poppop) Brown

You were fine there wasn't anything said wrong by you or your family n friends .... was just making a point it wasn't us sayin that cause I am sure you or your family n friends would have handle us fast , you all were fine - not out of line at all . Glad to hear you will be coming back n that you had a blast . We were right next to YOU ( top row ) but didn't want to bother ya . there was a female drivers family in front of us so we watched our P's n Q's lol Can't wait till next race in september see ya there :cheers: Have a Great Day

[critter]

what tbird said (as for full time jobs we all know critters is posting here. COME ON JOE PAY THE MAN FOR ALL THE FUN TIMES WE HAVE WITH HIM!!!!! ) i like that idea lol , i think i keep this place alive lol

[mcstockcar]

OH boy Imma in for it lmao :cheers: When in Jersey do as Jersey ppl when light is red hit the gas go fast :lol:

PAians dont use turn signals!

[crazyfriend]

PAians dont use turn signals!

OHHHH DOH our cars have those :lol: there's no turn signals in race cars so ya all should be use to it lol

[CJfilms]

PAians dont use turn signals!

Jack, the proper terminology is Pennsyltukians!

[NJ Chick]

PAians dont use turn signals!


I got news for ya, besides running through red lights, they don't use those in Joisey either!!!:lol: Guess that's why the boys from here do so well in enduros.....:p

[crazyfriend]

I got news for ya, besides running through red lights, they don't use those in Joisey either!!!:lol: Guess that's why the boys from here do so well in enduros.....:p

and girls too right :lol: