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TJ1976
09-12-2009, 11:58 PM
I heard this yesterday from Burt Myers himself....

Rumor has it theres only going to be one Mod Tour next year and its going to be all up North

I seriously hope its just a rumor and thats it:confused::confused:

Howie
09-13-2009, 12:45 AM
The single tour rumor has been floating around in various versions for a while. That's the first time I've heard the "its going to be all up North" twist to it though.

night gent
09-13-2009, 05:39 AM
Even though I live "up north", it would be a shame if the economy caused the whelen southern mods to go under. Let's hope that it's just a rumor!

mends
09-13-2009, 10:03 AM
i haven't heard it.. but i've predicted it since last year...

within 2 years... whelen mod tour with maybe 4 southern races...

that's the official prediction from me...




if that happens... don't look for southern teams to travel, look for another southern tour to pop up...

RGeeProductions
09-13-2009, 10:51 AM
Wow, after only a really short time, no one remembers the S.M.A.R.T. Tour? That's want NASCAR squished out for their own southern tour. I feel there will always be a southern tour of some kind and I also feel it will be the comeback of S.M.A.R.T. JMO

worm
09-13-2009, 02:28 PM
when only 16 cars show up ,what do you expect. its costing nascar $$$ they do not like that

mends
09-13-2009, 02:40 PM
Wow, after only a really short time, no one remembers the S.M.A.R.T. Tour? That's want NASCAR squished out for their own southern tour. I feel there will always be a southern tour of some kind and I also feel it will be the comeback of S.M.A.R.T. JMO


i was on the board of directors for SMART...

and yes that would be a viable option...

but let see what happens...

MOD JUNKIE
09-13-2009, 03:12 PM
This is a interesting thread and could well be true for good reason but take a look who started the rumor.......#1.

Curious, does smart allow traction control?.......just asking.

TJ1976
09-13-2009, 05:42 PM
Not defending Burt or anything, but there was some chatter about speculation of one tour among other teams at Myrtle Beach as well, minus the "all up North"

If NASCAR wants to make money with the guys down here, they need to start shelling out some money. When the costs (tires, food, fuel , etc) to run are more than what the sanctioning body is willing to pay...of course you're only going to have a handful of cars show.

Lets see what really happens after the season is over

JMO

TonyP
09-13-2009, 07:05 PM
Up North..... if you want to run with the best, well where is the competition? thats where the real racing is.

JED
09-13-2009, 08:02 PM
The North only Tour has been a topic in the pits the last couple of weeks. It would be a shame if the Southern Tour went away. I hope it does not. It has brought some recognition to the southern modifieds.

With the demise of the ASA tour the NASCAR tour is now the only option if you wish to race a modified. As I was told by one team the NASCAR deal is a professionally run deal. You know what you get.

Upping the purse is always great but can the tracks afford it? The northern Tour knows what is like to have tracks turn them away because of the costs.

mends
09-13-2009, 08:35 PM
my reasoning for the north only tour

1) how can nascar validate supporting a 10-15 car tour
2) now that the cars are supposedly identical in rules package, does 2 tours make sense
3) with 2 races now in the south, you could potentially add, richmond, motor mile, south boston - you could potentially have 1/3 of the tour in the south - which means nascar could validate the 1 tour by saying so many races are in the south, that traveling is not as big an issue


southern cars traveling north - my take upon this

1) many drivers and crews cannot take off that many days to travel.. me and gene pack talked yesterday upon it and if 1) you could get days off to travel and 2) you could afford the expense... then running the northern tour would make the most sense as far as payoffs are concerned...

2) travel expenses would probably be about $1000 per race, so you can deduct that from any winnings and then that would leave a southern team in about the same position as the lower paying southern tour

resurrection of SMART tour

1) everything is still in place should that need to happen, everyone that was involved is still involved in some way with the modifieds now - except for president josh jenkins who passed away

2) caraway is the main nascar track and was the main smart track, so 6 dates would be set up probably immediately.. procuring tracks and dates would be the main obstacle...

3) smart didn't have a series sponsor before, so it doesn't necessarily need one to happen



these are just my personal observations and i have not had any insight or discussions with any decision makers anywhere, i can see the writing on the wall and honestly in my opinion it doesn't look hopeful for a southern tour...

who's too blame???? everyone can make an assumption, but things work in unison... no purse - no cars - no cars - no track wanting to pay big purse

worm
09-13-2009, 08:52 PM
very nice written. ur 100% right

monty57mod
09-13-2009, 09:16 PM
I totally agree with you on this one. And it was very nicely written.:D

Racer1_NC
09-13-2009, 09:53 PM
who's too blame???? everyone can make an assumption, but things work in unison... no purse - no cars - no cars - no track wanting to pay big purse
They had the cars the first couple of years.

RGeeProductions
09-13-2009, 09:54 PM
Thanks mends...I knew someone had some S.M.A.R.T. info....

NC Mudcat
09-13-2009, 10:23 PM
I'm not sure losing NASCAR down here and going back to SMART would be bad. I don't know if the economy is the only reason behind the fact, but NASCAR certainly did not help us gain any Southern cars by taking over the tour.

mends
09-14-2009, 08:58 AM
They had the cars the first couple of years.


bill,

i think that was out of optimism and hope of bigger purses in the future, now with the downturn in the economy i think a few of the drivers would like to race more, but just can't afford it... of course, larger purses would offset expenses, but then that's something that driver's can't control...

Horse power
09-14-2009, 12:17 PM
I am not sure about what it would be like with no southern tour, but if we had one tour, and the races were distributed evenly as far as travel, then it may not be that bad. I don't think it would be fair to run all the races up north.
The southern economy is bad. I know, I live here. The tracks don't pay much either. One thing is for sure, when it hits a part of racing for the worst, it hurts all of us who make a living at it.

Racer1_NC
09-14-2009, 02:28 PM
who's too blame???? everyone can make an assumption, but things work in unison... no purse - no cars - no cars - no track wanting to pay big purse



i think that was out of optimism and hope of bigger purses in the future, now with the downturn in the economy i think a few of the drivers would like to race more, but just can't afford it... of course, larger purses would offset expenses, but then that's something that driver's can't control...

That's my point....they had the cars the first 2-3 years and it made no difference to the purse in the following years. The bottom line is that no matter who you are talking about......from NASCAR to SMART to the ASA, the mods have been sold short purse wise to the tracks for 20 plus years. I know the thought was to just "get a foot in the door" and create demand but it hasn't worked that way.

What's the answer? Depends on who you ask..... I've got my own thoughts just as everyone else does. Bottom line is that from where I sit, even with the economy in semi bad shape the sanctioning body (whom ever that may be) should be able to sign a presenting sponsor for both the north and south tours that would kick in enough to make a difference at each race. Whelen has been great but more is needed.

TJ1976
09-14-2009, 02:35 PM
I talked with Charli about this this morning and asked him if he had heard anything. He hadn't heard the Burt Myers version yet but the one he had heard was that there was going to be one tour with 6-8 races up North and 6-8 races down South.

While I like part of that version better...12-16 races total? Thats the part that I don't like:disgusted

I remember at one time when there seemed like a tour race going on at least weekly or every other week during the spring ,summer and fall

Like I said earlier , lets see what happens by seasons end. Whatever the outcome...you just might see the return of the SMART tour

Brian Hawks
09-14-2009, 03:40 PM
How are they going to run 6-8 races down South? If these tracks can't afford the current purse the Southern Tour offers, how are they going to afford a bigger Tour?

BigMac
09-14-2009, 04:25 PM
That was my question as well. Nascar needs to step up and put out a press release or address the tour this weekend at NHMS now that the cat is out of the bag. We all know they will put this out there as a positive step forward and a great move for the future of modifieds

limodmaniac
09-14-2009, 05:40 PM
Doesn't Nascar help out the East Series? I can't believe tracks like Thompson and Stafford took them without big help from someone. Any one know?

Gil
09-15-2009, 01:29 AM
Does it really cost more for Southern teams to come North than it does for Northern teams to go South? The economy is also bad in the North. In case you forgot the jobs always go from North to South! I guess I am to old to understand modern economics.

:rolleyes:

Axel
09-15-2009, 06:02 AM
I think it's more of a regional economy thing Gil. The same job that may pay $20/hour in the northeast may pay 15 or 16 in some other places. Or maybe as low as $12/hour in certain places. (just making something up as an illustative example) Of course other thgins are cheaper too (like housing) which is why many people retire to places like Delware, NC and SC etc.

Add to that the economy in general which is pretty much still in the dumper, makes it probably less feasable for southern teams to come north than northern teams to go south.

cme20
09-15-2009, 07:20 AM
I think that regardless of the economy you would not see southern teams up north except for the Hills. Where were the southern teams up north up until 2007 before the economy went down the dump?

Jaws
09-15-2009, 12:33 PM
How are they going to run 6-8 races down South? If these tracks can't afford the current purse the Southern Tour offers, how are they going to afford a bigger Tour?

Southern races

Martinsville, 2 at Bristol, Concord, Bowman Gray, 2 at Caraway (There's 7).

Northern Races.

Thompson 3 Stafford 3, NH 2 (Maybe 3), Riverhead. (There's 9/10)

16/17 races total.

Theres your 2010 schedule

BOBBY D
09-15-2009, 01:45 PM
You guys.need to stop.being so negative.nothing is as bad as you
make it sound .be thankful .that we have good races.
And good race tracks.look positive.instead of the negative.
Everything will work out for the best.nascar has the best races.
Period. Thank you.lets go racing.wmt.

Brian Hawks
09-15-2009, 03:36 PM
Martinsville, Bristol, and Bowman Gray Stadium is the only places I see paying the purses for a North/South Tour. Concord.. no.. Caraway... maybe... depends on how ya work it out. How many cars you plan on starting at these races? How many guys are going home.

And negative Bobby D? Of course I'm negative. I'm a mechanic at a car dealership and get paid 100 % commission... I get 10 days off a year not counting holidays.. How many Thompson/Stafford/Riverhead shows you think I'm going to be able to make?

And I'll argue with ya that NASCAR puts on the best racing.. SOMETIMES they do.. but North South Shootout.. and some ASA races how topped every Southern event here lately.. Sorry...

We'll just see what happens.. I just don't see much Southern Support for a Multi-Tour with 9-10 Northern events..

NC Mudcat
09-15-2009, 08:58 PM
I would disagree with the concept that NASCAR has the best races. As already stated, the North/South Shootout has been better than the southern tour races for 5 years or so now. The ASA race at OCS this March was a very good race. In some cases NASCAR helps, but it has not been the case in the southern modifieds.

I don't see many southern teams willing to go north for tour races. They'll stay home and run the Stadium. One of the best down here, Tim Brown, only runs the Stadium now. He won't go to Caraway; I know he ain't going to Stafford.

Gary66
09-16-2009, 04:36 PM
I would hold off putting Concord into any scenarios for 2010.

The North South Shootout is put on by the C and C guys, they rent the track from Concord, it is their show.
While Concord did have a WMST race this year and has held SMART races before, I doubt very much if they would want to put up the money for a Tour race next year.

I would think a combined tour by Nascar would up the purse enough that Concord would not even consider it.


Nascar already has a 2010 Southern Modified Tour in place, it's called the Bowman Gray Season schedule.
As long as Nascar caters to the Stadium and schedules around it, and has most of the races at the same track (Caraway) where you can't see no matter where you sit,
it's not ever going to grow more cars and fans than it has now.

ls1z28
09-20-2009, 09:26 AM
My opinion....The one tour idea 1/2 up North and 1/2 down south I think would hurt everyone. Its a given that most of the WSMT teams have smaller budgets than the WMT teams. I think that the added travel on both sides would make even more teams unable to compete and/or those who could wouldn't be able to run full seasons.

I mean lets look at it. WSMT pays $2000 to win..that doesn't even cover a tire bill for competing teams. ASA was paying $2200 to win but they fell apart mid season. The easy solution would be to find a title sponsor who could up the purses, but in this day and age, that's going to be hard to find. Another solution would be to get the track promoters to pack more in the stands. Unfortunately from what I have seen in the south more tracks I go to here, when the feature series is only pulling 15 cars max and the same 2 guys win week after week, You would be hard pressed to get me back 2 weeks in a row to watch in the stands.

This is a tough draw no matter which way you look at it.

kja819
09-20-2009, 06:43 PM
How many Southern teams come up for the race at NH which is a good paying race? 1 (the Hills).....2 maybe

A combined tour most likely is not the answer.

Whelen has been a great title sponser... Are the purses being increased by what Whelen has paid to be the title sponser or has that money gone somewhere else?

Just a question that came to my mind. It seems that the tracks have to come up with the total purse. Please correct me if I'm talking out my a**.

Tinkfan
09-21-2009, 12:00 PM
I know Motor Mile has the "jack" to host a Tour race. I have heard they would have hosted the southern tour this year but they wanted a mid-summer Saturday night race and the stadium put the kibosh on that.

MJProcko
09-22-2009, 11:00 AM
The talk of going back to one tour is a concept that can work well in my opinion. First off, what I believe what Nascar has done wrong with the two tour concept is that the final few races of the year should be combined events to crown one overall champion, similar to what the Hooters series has done. Short changing the Southern teams in the purse department was the other. I realize most southern tracks can’t afford Nascar and that’s Nascar’s fault. Title sponsors should be putting out the purse, not the tracks.

So how to make this all work? First, by removing the obligations of Whelen from the SWMT and All American Series their resources can be downsized to just one tour and they will be able to increase their involvement and see a much better return on their investment.

Second, the hard part, the purses need to go up and the cost to the tracks needs to go down, hard, but not impossible. Nascar needs to be the ones bringing race sponsors to each event and stop putting the onus on the tracks to provide the purse. If they just pay the sanctioning fee they can afford the race and Nascar can provide a great marketing opportunity for sponsors. If they need to reduce the sanctioning fee they can take a small percentage of the gate to offset it.

Third, no flash/reduced/short races, treat it like a real touring series.

Fourth, change the qualifying to top 12-15 on time and the rest from heats with 2 provisionals for the North and South. Might not be possible at cup tracks but you can’t ask a Burt Myers, Brian Loftin, Ken Heagy or Wade Cole to travel for 2 laps of time trials if they have a bad time but at least everyone will have a chance to race into the field.

Having one major tour will also allow for smaller tours to continue and allow racers the option.

Potential Schedule.

March
1. Bristol, cup weekend
2. Martinsville, cup weekend
April
3. Thompson
4. South Boston
5. Stafford
May
6. Lanier
7. Stafford
8. Concord, cup week
June
9. South Boston
10. NHIS
July
11. Thompson
12. Caraway
August
13. Bowman Gray
14. Bristol, cup weekend
15. Stafford
September
16. Richmond, cup weekend
17. NHIS
October
18. Stafford
19. Thompson
20. Martinsville, cup weekend

In my humble opinion and some hard work from all involved I think it can work.

limodmaniac
09-22-2009, 04:48 PM
Please add Indianapolis and Riverhead to the list. And one more race at Loudon. Get rid of Concord and Lanier.

Axel
09-22-2009, 05:08 PM
Keep Concord. The NSS would be a great race. I know, I know, it's a C&C race, but we are blue-skying this... :angel:

I guess while we are at it, add Wall Stadium. The Turkey Derby would be an awesome season ender. Could you imagine a tight points battle coming down to the chilly, high banks of the shorline oval? :p

limodmaniac
09-22-2009, 06:16 PM
Oops meant get rid of Caraway and Lanier

Axel
09-22-2009, 06:51 PM
Caraway is a cool track too!

BigMac
09-23-2009, 12:08 PM
Didn't Nascar approach the North South Shootout folks a few years ago and were turned away? Richmond would have a race if they wanted one. Apparently they don't. You'll never get a 3rd NHMS without an IRL or other major national series date. I do agree Martinsville should run the mods on Cup weekend. I know people say its a hassle but thats when the fans are there. ORP we hear about every year. It would be nice to see a deal get done there during Cup week. I still think that is the best track the Mods currently don't go to. I also think New Smyrna in Feb could work if handled properly. This idea of running the inside track at Atlanta and Lowes is stupid. No thanks.

I'd be open to ditching the tour concept in favor of a national points system like years ago. Nascar short tracks would pay a SMALL fee to get a Nascar points paying race. Then leave it up to the track to decide how much they want to pay for a given race purse. The more they pay the more cars they could expect.

Jaws
09-23-2009, 12:17 PM
That the Speed TV folks like the Mod/Truck double headers.

Its good for ratings, so adding new races on TV would have to work around tracks that could host both.

No reall additional cost to televise those races and the rating are good.

Richmond is the easiest and will probably be on the schedule in 2010. Where else could that happen?

BigMac
09-23-2009, 01:35 PM
I'm not sure about a truck/mod doubleheader. Unless I'm mistaken, the trucks don't run Richmond.

jandj
09-24-2009, 09:16 AM
RIR currently runs Nationwide Friday night, Cup Saturday night.
IIRC, they've run Trucks on Thursday night in the past.
When the IRL came to Richmond they ran USAC Sprints and Silver Crown, so you'd think NASCAR could fit a third race into their weekend.
I'm 45 minutes from RIR and would love to see the Mods back.

Axel
09-24-2009, 09:55 AM
didnt the mods race with the IRL cars at Richmond in 96 or 97?

I was not there, but woulda loved to go.

jandj
09-24-2009, 12:33 PM
The Mods ran w/IRL the first two years at RIR and put on a good show.
As the Indy cars are "cold" in the garage and pit area, fans over 18 could buy a pass that gave access to the area behind the pits during practice and qualifying, as well as to the garages anytime they were open.
The problem was that as Mods are "hot" it caused confusion among track security as to when you had access and when you didn't. There was also an issue of shorts meeting the IRL fan dress code but not the NASCAR code.
Once they dropped the Mods and added the USAC support races, those problems went away as all the cars were then "cold" in the garages.
As much as I missed the Mods, the IRL/USAC shows did give fans access they normally wouldn't have, I gladly spent the $ for the pass every year the IRL was at RIR.
I also remember talking to a few of the Mod guys and being told that the trip was a money loser for them, that the cost of getting there, preparing for the race, hopefully surviving the race with an intact car and getting back home made breaking even impossible unless you won and even then you still didn't come out ahead by much.

worm
09-30-2009, 09:05 AM
no one at the drivers meeting,said this was not true about next year

Jaws
10-01-2009, 12:17 PM
I'm not sure about a truck/mod doubleheader. Unless I'm mistaken, the trucks don't run Richmond.

Doesn't mean they couldn't add them.

km74nc
10-16-2009, 01:46 AM
No matter how you spin it, keep in mind that there wouldn't be a race in the south during the months of May, June, July, and August. The only exceptions being:

Caraway - July 4th weekend
Bowman Gray - August (during THEIR season)
Bristol - August (1st race after THEIR season)

worm
10-16-2009, 11:37 AM
so all we can hope is that they rip up the track and make it a running track again

Jaws
10-16-2009, 07:58 PM
so all we can hope is that they rip up the track and make it a running track again

What about on a Sunday?

Rentawrench
10-16-2009, 11:10 PM
I heard a Race for Southern cars at the 1/4 mile at Lowes against a North race @Thompson. Mmm sounds like seperate tours in 2010

mends
10-17-2009, 03:38 AM
pretty sure it's 2 tours for 2010...

also heard:

1/4 mile lowes as stated above
bristol - already announced
2 martinsville
and richmond added

Axel
10-17-2009, 08:41 AM
um...wow! :drool:

Must get to Richmond for mods.

JED
10-17-2009, 10:18 AM
pretty sure it's 2 tours for 2010...


I also heard two tours for 2010. Beyond that. ???? Hopefully the Southern Tour/car count can grow next year.

BigMac
10-17-2009, 07:36 PM
Are they going to wear clown hats and rubber noses at Lowes? Its a circus act in my opinion.

Would Martinsville and Richmond be on Cup weekends?

jfp711
10-18-2009, 09:52 AM
How can you have a southern tour that can not race during the summer, because of the circus also known as bowman gray.....the racing is a joke, the promotor is a joke, love's drama... and there really is not much talent there, start up front an win.....if the Florida Mob is serious...lol...lol about the modifieds then they need to first look at running shows in summer....

Brian Hawks
10-18-2009, 11:06 AM
Explain how running more races on top of the Stadium is going to help Southern Modified racing?

7 cars... that's all the full-time guys we got this year? And it may drop to 6 after the last race..

mrhotrod
10-18-2009, 12:20 PM
I believe, that without the stadium, that the southern modified division could have evaporated without such a storied and historical base as the stadium.

You guys ***** about the stadium, because you can't pass, the promoter this, the promoter that... blah, blah.

Whether you want to beleive it or not; racing is supposed to be entertainment first and a sport second. The stadium is most certainly entertaining and has been the anchor for the southern mods for a long time and you have the promoters to thank for sticking with modifieds for all this time.

I grew up going to Islip, Freeport and Riverhead raceway and for sure bullring racing is a different breed of cat compared to 4/10 and half mile tracks. Having been lucky enough to have seen the very best of modified racing, at tracks all over the east from the sixties to the present, I can only say that your bashing the Stadium does nothing to help the division and if the stadium were gone - you'd ***** about that too.

Yeah the stadium may be rough on equpment, it's hard to pass, the purse isn't the greatest and there is almost certainly going to be controversy , but it's the most successful short track under the NASCAR banner because they always put on a show.

jfp711
10-18-2009, 05:16 PM
Have been to Islip, riverhead, plainville, westboro, riverside park & Danbury Racearena and to put the stadium on the same platform as these great tracks is a joke.......entertainment should be described as good racing which all the above did, not the junk that goes on at the stadium.....I could care less if the dug that dump up, and I promise you you'd never hear me ***** about it I'd applaued it.

Brian I know you think the stadium is the best thing since clean underwear, but if NASCAR does not pay a bigger purse, does not have a tour race during the summer months how in the world do you expect any teams to support it.

you need bigger purses, a southern mod cost the same amount of $$$ as that of a northern mod, so pay these southern teams a proper purse. There are some great little race tracks down here in the south, race on them, get NASACR to promote them and I feel pretty sure you'd have more then 7 full time teams.....

To say that the modifieds put on a good show @ the stadium also i.m.o. a joke, start on the pole and win, the racing is terrible, there is no way anybody can tell me that the racing comes even close to watching charlie J & wayne anderson carve their way to the front on the island, dave alkas, stan greger do the same @ plainville or Don LaJoie starting out back and winning...I just feel like I have been blessed to watch some of the best race back in the day and believe me they don't do that at Bowman Gray stadium.

SIModified
10-18-2009, 05:41 PM
From what I was told this weekend, There will be NO drastic changes to the NWSMT in 2010.

I did hear some things about some new venues for the new year, but word was mum about the purse increase (Big Surprise? :lol:)

The Stadium IS holding the Southern Tour back and keeping it from thriving and growing. DOT. DASH. PERIOD.

Yeah, yeah, yeah....I hear all you southerners kneeling at the altar of Gary Garrison and the Stadium management for keeping the modified division alive in the south all these years. BUT, it's 2009, people. The Stadium still runs their facility like a 1920's vaudeville show.

It amazes me that the competitors haven't rioted against the way things are run at that place. Between the Myers vs. Miller fued, to the torn up race cars and equipment, to the goofy full field redraws to the lack of passing....I could go on and on....

The bottom line is simply this.....If the NWSMT ran at places like Motor Mile, Hickory, Greenville-Pickens, South Boston, Southern National and other places where they could acually RACE without fear of putting a car into the first three rows of the grandstands, the Southern Tour could grow to something that could compete with the 60+ Late Model Stock cars that were at South Boston this past weekend. BUT, let's remember this too...Those 60+ cars were all racing for $10,000 for 250 laps.

Modified racing down south is screwed up and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. NO TOUR will ever survive and be successful if it takes three moths off during the PRIME racing weeks of the summer.

Until there is DRASTIC change and the drivers, car owners and promoters who own a track other than Bowman Gray Stadium start fighting for the division, things WILL NOT change.

That's the truth and people who have seen things first hand know it. IF the NWSMT disappears after 2010, it isn't NASCAR's fault, or Sherry Clifton's fault....The blame will purely rest of the greed and the big fat man who should be wearing a top hat, clown shoes and a big red nose on Martin Luther King Boulevard.

jfp711
10-18-2009, 06:13 PM
Charli well said.....love the truth about the red nose, top hat & clown shoes...LMFAO......Key the circus song boys....

SIModified
10-18-2009, 06:32 PM
And let me make myself clear.....I understand that racing is entertainment and Gray does do his promotions right and gets the fans in the seats every Saturday night. If I'm just a fan, I'm hooked on the place.

BUT, do the math....IF the place holds 17,000 people and they paid $10.00 EVERY WEEK to get in for the 12 or 14 weeks every season, Gray is sitting on a pretty nice pile of money.

Do the competitors see any large chunk of that? I highly doubt it.

My posts and opinion are purley based from a competitor's standpoint. If I'm spending 30 or 40 thousand on a Bob Brunneau motor and another 15 to 20 on all the lastest stuff from Troyer every year and Burt Myers dumps me on the last lap and gets credit for a win, to me, THAT'S NOT RACING.

There's NO DISCIPLINE at Bowman Gray. The place does not follow the NASCAR Rule Book and it's SUPPOSED to be a NASCAR sanctioned track! And don't try calling NASCAR in Daytona and complain about it, because every one of those people down there already knows about it.

That's why I say the way it is, is corrupt. Nobody wants to "Man Up and Grow a Set" to Bowman Gray and tell them their time is up.

It's really a sad deal.

When I heard NASCAR was taking over the Southern Tour back in 2005, I was excited and made an effort to support the Tour as much as I could. I'm proud I was on the team that won the first two NASCAR modified championships down south.

BUT, as time has gone on, and things have not changed, you can't help but wonder why things haven't progressed and grown like they promised it would.

If I'm a driver, or a car owner, those are the questions I'm asking.....and EXPECTING an HONEST ANSWER.

jfp711
10-18-2009, 07:07 PM
Very hard to argue any of your points.....

Brian Hawks
10-18-2009, 07:15 PM
Charli, your on the right track... but your worried about something so small.

Only 11 Modified Drivers that compete in the NASCAR Whelen Southern Modified Tour, run at Bowman Gray Stadium.

ONLY 2... compete on the Tour full time.

5 of the 11 only competed at the Tour race at BOWMAN GRAY...

4/11 Camping World East Races were NOT ran on a Saturday Night.
4/13 Camping World West races were NOT ran on a Saturday Night.
10/13 Whelen Modified Tour Races were NOT ran on a Saturday Night.


Your putting the entire blame on Gray Garrison and Bowman Gray Stadium. Which is nothing more but another Local NASCAR track that runs the SHORTEST schedule ANYWHERE.

Yes, Modified Racing sucks there..But after Brunnhoelzl wraps up his championship at Caraway this weekend... let Tim Brown and him sit down and see how spent/made the most money. Pays better to race around a football field.

The Southern Tour has MORE races than the Northern Tour right now. You can race on Friday's and Sunday's all you wish. But you keep blaming BGS. Think outside the box...

The purse is horrible. And these tracks in the South can't afford the horrible purse as it is. The media coverage since 2005 has slacked off so much, it's ridiculous.

My point. Hate Bowman Gray all you want. But I'd bet money.. you closed the doors on that place tomorrow. The Southern Tour would STILL have 12-15 races, the purse would still suck and you'd have 10 FULL TIME cars at best with the current program NASCAR gives you. Junk tires and no purse.

Just my .02.

SIModified
10-18-2009, 08:34 PM
So, you're saying basically that "something so small" is the NASCAR Whelen Southern Modified Tour?

Last time I checked, a NASCAR Regional Touring Series carried a hell of a lot more weight than a weekly racing series track.

I think this is what confuses me the most. How does Bowman Gray Stadium dictate where and when a NASCAR Regional Touring Series races?

I guess I'm the only one who sees how a*s backwards that is....

Brian Hawks
10-18-2009, 08:53 PM
Do you have a one track mind?

The "something so small" comment was speaking of Bowman Gray Stadium.

Anyone notice the Southern Tour ran 2 more races than the Northern Tour this year? Do they blame Bowman Gray Stadium as well?

How about Donny Lia winning $69,000 bucks and running 12 races. Brunnhoelzl has ran 13 races and won $23,000 bucks. What does Bowman Gray Stadium have to do with that?

How about the Northern Tour has an all around better tire program. More free tires and they are allowed to pit. Our races just flat out stink anymore. I don't care to see people RIDE around for 120 laps and turn on the heat with 30 to go and actually race. Is that Bowman Gray's fault as well?

Run the same tire. Pay the same purse. Have no pit stops. And run against Bowman Gray Stadium next year. You've STILL got the same problem.

jfp711
10-18-2009, 09:05 PM
Brian, who's fault is the purses suck???.... Who's fault is it the tour only runs at a couple of tracks....the way I see it it's NASCAR...Look back on the Northern Tour, they run on only a handful of tracks....again NASCAR, How much money does NASCAR have to put in their pockets, The modifeds are the best division in NASCAR....PERIOD!!!! Put a little money behind the tour, promote the tour, run during the summer, give some of these promoters a break on a sanction fee which would allow the tour to showcase the modifieds series at some of these other venues.....C'Mon Man I thought you were a little more on the ball then what your writing.....You can not have 1 track dictate on when A National Touring series runs....I believe IF The Florida mob would look after this series & do what's right it would be benifical to the Owners, drivers & Track Promoter.....Gray Garrison is making a butt load of $$$$, as is NASCAR...I hate to say this but it's too bad Randy Myers can't get his act together ,because for the tour to survive it's going to take somebody with a set of Balls to take on the stadium & for that point NASCAR as well, and put up a good points fund, a good purse, listen to the team owners, Pay these teams that support you and I believe you'd be surprise the following you'd see......just my 2cents.....

Brian Hawks
10-18-2009, 09:22 PM
Are you not reading what I'm writing?

I agree 200% with everything you just said. This has NOTHING to do with Bowman Gray Stadium like you want to blame it on. NASCAR is the problem.

Yes, Bowman Gray does dictate WHEN the Tour runs. BUT, the Purse still sucks... the tire program sucks, the limited number of races sucks... And it's JUST not the Southern Tour. The same thing is going on up North.

The Southern Tour raced at 9 different tracks in the 2009 Season.
The Northern Tour raced at 8 different tracks in the 2009 Season.

Randy Myers HAD a good idea. But just like everyone on this thread, he thinks he HAS to beat Bowman Gray Stadium. (He will never admit that) You can't beat Bowman Gray Stadium, but you NEED to use them to be successful.

NASCAR, just flat our, IS THE PROBLEM. Bowman Gray Stadium is the ONLY short track in the USA to have the car count and fan base every week, and you want to put a STOP to that for what reason? You already have more races and more tracks than the Northern Tour. If you had THREE MONTHS to race in the PRIME of the summer.. What Southern Tracks are going to be able to afford a TOUR race... Or we'd be there already...

jfp711
10-18-2009, 09:51 PM
Brian...YOUR MISSING THE POINT HERE.....Why does the southern tour not race during the Summer....BGS...PERIOD!!!!!, I agree with you 100% on the tire rule.....but who's fault is this...NASCAR!!!!.....I know that you think the sun rises & sets on BGS and that is OK if that is what floats your boat. What is a shame is the Modifieds are hurting. In addition, NASCAR has their hands out with what it takes to sanction a NASCAR race. They have a stupid tire rule, like you said they ride for 120 laps, that’s not racing agreed...IMO, If this is the best NASCAR can do then do away with this Southern tour and just combine the schedule, and if the Myers and the host of wanna be drivers want to run the stadium then so be it. but we know this wont happen because the Florida Mob will not put the proper money to support the series, but it would be cool to see the tour run at some of these great tracks here in North Carolina.....But the schedule is still weak up north....lets take a look at something...

1986...NASCAR Modified Champion Jimmy Spencer: $92,552.42 won
they ran 25 races....rougemont, martinville, stafford, thompson, new egypt, monadnock, star, waterford, Spencer, riverhead, pocono, Oxford....

1991.....NASCAR Modified Champion Mike Stefanik: $152,392.00 won 23 tour dates....Martinsville, Richmond, Thompson, Loudon, Nazareth, Stafford, Flemington, Oxford, Riverhead, Jennerstown, Riverside Park, Pocono....

2002.......NASCAR Champion Mike Stefanik: $138,631.00 won they ran 19 tour races....thompson, stafford, waterford, nazareth, riverhead, seekonk, richmond, beech ridge, new hampshire, martinsville..

the point I'm trying to make is NASCAR really needs to step up the support for these cars, they now run over 70% of the tour shows up North at a couple of tracks today, yes the northern tour still puts on the best show, but they have taken a beaten on tracks they compete on, yes some have closed but some are still in operation today and they don't run because of the sanction fees...Donny will win $69,000.00and only run 13 races that’s crazy NASCAR can't do a better job then that????.....like I said there are some neat tracks here in the south. Utilize them and race on them but do so that the owners can make a buck and allow the teams to get tires to put on a good show....sorry for the rant, I love modifieds and have some very fond memories from races past and what they do today is pretty sad....NASCAR should be ashamed......just look at the cup stuff...

Brian Hawks
10-18-2009, 10:07 PM
We are on the same page Joe. I hate Bowman Gray just as much as the next guy. I've personally been the person leading the race on the last lap.. only to take the walk of shame from being dumped.

But your 100 % correct. NASCAR SHOULD BE ASHAMED of how RACING in general is right now. Sprint Cup Series is more boring than a golf game on TV. They are only worried about bringing in $$ and not throwing out any $$.

We have some great tracks down South. And We CAN run during the summer AGAINST Bowman Gray Stadium. Burt Myers is the ONLY Top BGS/Tour Driver than runs good both places. The only other is Gene Pack, and he's going to retire. Running Friday/Sunday shows and not worrying about BGS is VERY possible. But, NASCAR has to make it possible for these tracks to even host races.

corey17
10-19-2009, 02:48 PM
I understand the point Brian is trying to make and agree with him 100%. I knew this thing wasn't going to work when it started, and NASCAR has simply said "you have got our name, what more do you need?". When it pays more to win a Late-Model race at Caraway with 9 cars for a weekly event in front of 54 people, compared to a NASCAR major touring event in front of 15,000 at the most storied track in weekly history, there is a definite problem. And Charlie just has sour grapes about Bowman Gray, I hate the racing there also, but without it the mods would not even be around here. You talk about going over there with good equipment and getting dumped so someone can win the race, but it is funny how the same people win all the time and they have multiple championships, must be some skill to it other than driving blind. Fact is, and some will not like this, but the mods will never grow here, It's just not a division that this part of the country has accepted. This is fendered country down here, each week tracks around here have 20+ late-models every week, hell Hickory only pays $1000 to win and they have 20 each race. We have been having this argument for years, they have been running the mods down here for 50 years, and they have not grown one bit. If anything, they series was more healthy when it was the SMART tour, it paid the same and had more cars. I hate that it hasn't grown, but that is the fact, IT HASN'T.

corey17
10-19-2009, 02:52 PM
Last time I checked, a NASCAR Regional Touring Series carried a hell of a lot more weight than a weekly racing series track.

I think this is what confuses me the most. How does Bowman Gray Stadium dictate where and when a NASCAR Regional Touring Series races?

Believe it or not, winning the championship at Bowman Gray will have you remembered a lot more than winning the Southern title. And it pays more. And how does Bowman Gray dictate a regional touring series? Come on now, you know the answer to that, which one makes NASCAR more money, and where do the cars come from?

burtmyers1
10-19-2009, 08:40 PM
According to some of yall(or you all) getting rid of the Stadium fixes all of the Southern Tour problems(tires, purse, # of Cars, and so on). Just as Brian has stated getting rid of the Stadium changes nothing. We will still have terrible purses, weak tires and low number of full timers. Plain and simple the problem is Nascar not the Stadium. The day we get a better purse and a better tire is the day the Southern Tour will start growing. How terrible the racing is at the Stadium doesn't affect our purse nor does it affect the tire we run.


Also two of the Bowman Gray "clowns" will be in the truck race this Saturday at Martinsville Tim Brown will be in the 08 truck and Burt Myers will be in the 07 truck

Jaws
10-19-2009, 09:19 PM
In know this is probably a stupid question and I have not been to Bowman Gray but if the place is so crappy why do 15,000 fans and a pretty decent number of cars show up week after week and year after year??

I'm not being smart but there are hundreds of other tracks across the country that would kill for that, right?

Brian Hawks
10-19-2009, 09:37 PM
Ding Ding Ding.. We have a winner!

It's like coming on here and saying close Wal-Mart because they have cheaper stuff than CVS and Walgreens..

Jaws
10-19-2009, 09:48 PM
Ding Ding Ding.. We have a winner!

It's like coming on here and saying close Wal-Mart because they have cheaper stuff than CVS and Walgreens..


Cool whats the prize?

Brian Hawks
10-19-2009, 10:32 PM
You ever decide to come to NC and attend BGS next year, look me up.. I'll pay your way in..

Jaws
10-20-2009, 07:10 PM
You ever decide to come to NC and attend BGS next year, look me up.. I'll pay your way in..

Sweet!

I usually have that big old camera in tow, get me into the infield and we have a deal..lol

I ahve always wanrt ed to come down, maybe next year is the year.

corey17
10-20-2009, 07:39 PM
Say you have a big camera? Let me know when you are coming down, and I can have your credentials waiting at the gate.

NC Mudcat
10-20-2009, 09:14 PM
In know this is probably a stupid question and I have not been to Bowman Gray but if the place is so crappy why do 15,000 fans and a pretty decent number of cars show up week after week and year after year??

The fans go for the wrecks and the fights. The cars go because some sponsors tell them to. Tim Brown goes because Hayes wants him in front of 15,000 people in their back yard, not in front of a couple hundred at Caraway for a tour race.

You need to visit once. Then you will have a reason to never come back.

Just my opinion, but BGS does one thing we should be thankful for: salvaging modified racing in the South. Without them, we would only have Late model stock cars to watch, at which point I am no longer an asphalt race fan on a weekly basis.

Jaws
10-20-2009, 10:22 PM
Say you have a big camera? Let me know when you are coming down, and I can have your credentials waiting at the gate.

I would love that, is there anywhere to hide in the infield?? Looked kind of sparse in a couple of pictures I saw.

We will be in touch next year.

Howie
10-20-2009, 10:29 PM
I would love that, is there anywhere to hide in the infield?? Looked kind of sparse in a couple of pictures I saw.

We will be in touch next year.

Corey is the man Jaws, but this year when we visited he felt he didn't want me to be in the infield to shoot. Maybe you'll need to shoot from the outside like I did. There are good places to shoot from outside available light, the lighting is good. Check my gallery Here (http://www.racerhub.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=1405). Go if you can, you'll enjoy it for sure, and they were good to us when we visited, you'll have a good time.

Jaws
10-21-2009, 12:11 AM
Corey is the man Jaws, but this year when we visited he felt he didn't want me to be in the infield to shoot. Maybe you'll need to shoot from the outside like I did. There are good places to shoot from outside available light, the lighting is good. Check my gallery Here (http://www.racerhub.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=1405). Go if you can, you'll enjoy it for sure, and they were good to us when we visited, you'll have a good time.

Looks really cool, I think it will have to be on the list for 2010. Want to join me??

corey17
10-21-2009, 11:25 AM
Corey is the man Jaws, but this year when we visited he felt he didn't want me to be in the infield to shoot.

What? I have no authority to tell anybody what to do there LOL. I know your not talking about me, I know exactly who you are talking about, I shoot photos all over the East coast and have never been harrassed as much as I was there, the track photographer is very protective. I have shot photos from inside the infield before, but It's about the scariest darn thing I've ever done.

Howie
10-21-2009, 12:39 PM
I know your not talking about me,

You are absolutely right Corey - a little brain fade on my part, wrong name. You have a PM.

Jaws
10-21-2009, 01:58 PM
What? I have no authority to tell anybody what to do there LOL. I know your not talking about me, I know exactly who you are talking about, I shoot photos all over the East coast and have never been harrassed as much as I was there, the track photographer is very protective. I have shot photos from inside the infield before, but It's about the scariest darn thing I've ever done.

Scary cool or I hope my life insurance is up to date scary? Do they keep the wreckers in the infield for a little protection?

burtmyers1
10-21-2009, 05:03 PM
Its "I hope your life insurance is up to date" scary Jaws, but really there hasn't been that many incidents with cars flying through the infield. Several years ago a car(not a modified) did hit the pace car armco barrier and I think an official or a track crew guy was injured. Brian can probably give more details on that. You just gotta keep an eye on your surroundings!

worm
10-21-2009, 06:35 PM
what about burt trying to ram jr miller in to a cube,lucky no one got hurt

burtmyers1
10-21-2009, 07:12 PM
Irrelevant

Sicklajoie
10-21-2009, 10:25 PM
What is the purse for a normal Bowman Gray modified race?

mends
10-21-2009, 10:32 PM
http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2009/aug/09/090005/bowman-gray-stadium-results/sports-professional-auto-racing/

that was for a normal double 25 race night.... double the money for a single race

hey look, i finished 8th in the 1st sportsman race:) way to go me :applause:
haha

burtmyers1
10-22-2009, 09:20 AM
The 200 lap opener pays over $3000 to win. When Burt won it a couple years ago he got $3600. He also won the Tour 199 that year and got $2000. Can some one tell me why a regional touring series pays less than a weekly track for basicly the same race? How does 1 lap equal $1600 more?

corey17
10-22-2009, 11:15 AM
http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2009/aug/09/090005/bowman-gray-stadium-results/sports-professional-auto-racing/

that was for a normal double 25 race night.... double the money for a single race

hey look, i finished 8th in the 1st sportsman race:) way to go me :applause:
haha

And if you added another $25 to what you won Mends, you would have enough money to buy ONE ticket to see ACDC this weekend.....................sad.

mends
10-22-2009, 12:12 PM
we do it for the love corey..... haha....



the love of going broke to sustain our hobby...

km74nc
10-25-2009, 01:10 PM
Doing away with BG does NOT fix the Southern Modified problem. NASCAR has the tour because of BG so they are one in the same to most modified die-hards in the south. It is true that BG kept the modifieds alive in the south and most of us don't have a problem recognizing that. That is at least until the late 80's when SMART came around. That schedule was built around BG and as well it should have been to help build the car count and the series. Just like today, there were people that chose to run one or the other or both. Even in the last years of SMART, there were plenty of races and decent car counts so it seems pretty clear as to when the problem arose.

The fix... who knows we all have our ideas. It seems that deep down $ may be a bigger issue that expected. Some teams just can't afford to race at all anymore. BG's car count was even off this year. Maybe the interest is just falling off and there isn't anything any of us can do, which I sincerely hope isn't the case.

There are or at least were people who wanted to race modifieds at places other than BG. That is the reason to keep fighting for an alternative and those people along with ALL modified drivers need incentive. You have to do something with the purse and have a solid (guaranteed) schedule.

TJ1976
10-25-2009, 06:01 PM
NASCAR really needs to open up their eyes and ears. 13 cars to show up and less than 10 to finish the season finale is pathetic. They are not giving the teams any incentive to show up. Its a far cry from the season opener when we had 26 cars start the race

Gary66
10-26-2009, 06:51 PM
From the fan side:

Too many races at the same race track where you can't see no matter where you sit.

worm
10-26-2009, 06:53 PM
plus the bgs guys get paid to be on tv!

mends
10-26-2009, 10:19 PM
really??? i didn't know that....

burtmyers1
10-27-2009, 12:38 AM
Dont think so worm.......

worm
10-27-2009, 03:02 PM
so you think they are doing a tv show and know one is getting paid ?

mends
10-27-2009, 04:42 PM
not all of the bgs drivers are getting paid...

i know a few that have signed contracts for the show are, but i think it's 5 or 6 who the story is following..

everyone else gets nothing...

worm
10-27-2009, 04:50 PM
so they are cashing in, why not you!

mends
10-27-2009, 05:48 PM
i wouldn't call it cashing in...


the story is not following me, so i wasn't offered a contract...

basically from what i know, if the crew is filming at your house and shop, and following you around and you have a contract, then you are getting $$$...

if not, then you're not getting $$$

smitty240
10-30-2009, 07:55 PM
Nascar already has a 2010 Southern Modified Tour in place, it's called the Bowman Gray Season schedule.
As long as Nascar caters to the Stadium and schedules around it, and has most of the races at the same track (Caraway) where you can't see no matter where you sit,
it's not ever going to grow more cars and fans than it has now.

I agree 100% with this assessment. When you shut down the tour during the entire vacation/travel season to support one track, it's hard to build a following.

Gary66
11-04-2009, 09:45 AM
When you shut down the tour during the entire vacation/travel season to support one track, it's hard to build a following

The same amount of damage is done by running half or more of the races at the same track (Caraway) where you can't see . If you set on the frontstraight, you can't see the cars except on the back straight, and if you set up in the turn one stands, the lights from the infield poles hit you in the eyes.

The Stadium is getting a bad wrap on this one. Outside of the Myers brothers, no other BGS regulars run the full tour anymore (including Miller and Brown). IF the Stadium is an issue, run Tour races in the summer on Friday nights.

The are enough quality race tracks down here to hold a tour, but Nascar's santioning fees deter a lot of them from attemping a Tour race. Even if Wilkesboro comes back to life, I doubt it makes a difference. The people at Wilkesboro have thrown out some really odd numbers they "expect" for the Pro Cup race next year (15,000) which defy logic. No way will they draw 15g, not for a USAR Pro Cup event.

A combined Tour won't work because of one simple reason: The Northern teams will travel down here to race, the Southern teams won't travel North to race up there.

If the WMST goes away, maybe the SMART people can run a few races down here, they did it before.

SIModified
11-04-2009, 10:14 AM
Gary,
That's exactly the problem....BGS WILL NOT let the Tour (ie: NASCAR) schedule a race on a Friday night or a Sunday during the Summer when the Stadium is running it's season.

That has been my gripe the whole time.

Southern Modified Tour racing as a whole shuts down so the Bozo's can run the circus in the summer time.

Gary66
11-04-2009, 10:43 AM
If that's the case then I agree with you.

BGS is a money making machine, they should not care what happens on Friday nights, it would not hurt them at all.

Brian Hawks
11-04-2009, 11:32 AM
I call BS on that.

Bowman Gray does not give a crap if you have a race on Friday or Sunday. As long as your not hurting their show... that was the deal from day 1 with NASCAR.

Prove me wrong and I'll admit it.. but NASCAR has a choice to setup Fridays and Sundays and they don't. That may not be their fault.. many tracks do run Saturday night shows and don't want a Touring division there when the regular show isn't going on.. that may be the case (I.E. Motor Mile)

Southern Tour STILL ran more races than the Northern Tour... And we are still complaining about Bowman Gray Stadium.

Fantastic idea. Let's have a 20 race schedule and run during the summer.. that way the season finale at Caraway has 3 cars.. Shesh...

EdR
11-08-2009, 12:35 AM
When does the Bowman Gray TV show air and what station has it ?

Gary66
11-08-2009, 08:06 AM
Schedule has not been released for air times. Discovery/History channel or one of the networks with them will have it.

mends
11-08-2009, 04:51 PM
it will be on the history channel... has not been determined, last time i heard was january

BigMac
11-09-2009, 06:32 AM
That's not all that uncommon though. I think the TVMS only had 4 or 5 cars that ran every race. The WMT probably had 10 or so who ran every event.

RGeeProductions
11-09-2009, 10:01 AM
WMT 16
RoC 13
WSMT 6
TVMRS 4
ASA 3

MOD11RACER
11-10-2009, 10:41 AM
WMT 16
RoC 13
WSMT 6
TVMRS 4
ASA 3

21 WMT Modified teams were at all of the 13 tour races. Some of the race teams DNQ @ the event, but did make an attempt to qualify.

The TVMRS had 10 Modified teams run all of the scheduled events.

worm
11-10-2009, 10:03 PM
how many ,10 maybe