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CJfilms
10-26-2009, 11:45 AM
Obviously, the recent rollover has spiked interest in cages and upgraded safety features....so, is your safety equipment up to code....and more importantly, do you have the correct configuration?
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If you are running the bare minimum safety requirements for a roll cage for dirt events....(Minimum acceptable protection is (1) bar behind the driver placed from one side to the other to prevent the car from crushing the driver in an impact.)...

You should have a 4 point harness installed.

-> The roof will cave in upon a rollover, however with a 4 point harness, the driver should be able to slide down/lower themselves to prevent serious injury.
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If you are running a FULL roll cage or at least a 4 point recommended roll cage...(One hoop behind seat, extending higher than driver's head, and one door bar on driver side recommended.)...

You should have a 5 point harness installed.

-> The roll cage should prevent the car from crushing the driver/compartment, therefore you will want to afford maximum protection by anchoring yourself to the cage.

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If you are extending any roll cage bars above the driver's head....

You should have adequate clearance between the driver's head with helmet and the roof/top of the bars above the driver's head.

-> If the car rolls over, the weight of the car/impact will crush the roof down as far as possible before the reinforcement withstands the load. You want at least 1-2 inches between the driver's head and the roof/top of the bars to allow for some give in the cage. Less than 1 inch can prove fatal if the driver's head is locked in place and a +1,000 lb load is being forced upon it.

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Drivers should be wearing approved helmets. Bring your helmet to the tech area for our inspector to look it over for you. Damage and scuffs marks are two very different things to worry about. A cracked helmet should not be worn, however one with just paint scratches may potentially still be used.

-> If you have an open faced helmet, an outdated motorcycle helmet or something of a sub-par safety standard... UPGRADE. In 2009, there are no mandatory Snell ratings or distinct rules against running these types of helmets, this will change for the better in 2010...but not in a way that will hurt your pockets.

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As always, NEETS is focused on safety. We want to afford maximum safety while not mandating expensive equipment. We will work out a set of safety-centered rules at our rules meeting to guide new drivers in the right direction......for example, someone might spend a fortune on a great helmet and cut corners on the roll cage....fixing one problem doesn't mean others will go away.

Poppop
10-26-2009, 12:03 PM
Since I just built my first Enduro car I've spent a lot of time in the pits and on the forum looking and asking questions. Some of the things I saw were inspiring and I tried to copy them to the best of my ability as far as they were suited to my car. Others made me cringe because of the design and workmanship. Some people were very helpfull and others a little less so but I learned something from everybody. If cages are optional, how can there be any standards to go by? Just my opinion.:wave:

rpkulik
10-26-2009, 01:06 PM
Check with other drivers who have demonstrated their ability to design and build an effective cage. Larry Carmen designed and built the cage on the #57 car which withstood an exceptionally nasty hit. Unfortunately, a few of my cages have been subjected to punishing hits as well.

Use as a minimum 1 3/4" x 0.095 tubing. Not pipe, galvanized fence post, etc. Put the top of the main hoop as high in the car as possible and the seat as low as the driver can tolerate and located more toward the center of the car. The main hoop needs to be mounted as securely as possible, it can't protect you if the uprights punch through the floorpan upon rollover. Large 1/4" thick plates work well, but a 3"x3 angle across the width of the car is superior mount for a rollbar in a FWD car. Mount to the frame on a full frame car.

While these episodes are dramatic and stressful, NEETS has a good record of avoiding injury. If the drivers continue to focus their efforts, I hope we can continue as we have without mandating additional equipment. Keep in mind that THERE IS NO ILLEGAL SAFETY EQUIPMENT in NEETS. So cage away, just keep it in the cockpit area.

Anyone can feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

CJfilms
10-26-2009, 01:08 PM
THERE IS NO ILLEGAL SAFETY EQUIPMENT IN NEETS

That is the quote of the day!

Also....I like the part about keeping it inside the car as well! :applause:

Danger83Ranger
10-26-2009, 02:40 PM
i will definitely be updating my seat belts and rollcage for 2010. we have all winter to shine up those iffy spots, priority #1

Maddawg
10-26-2009, 06:38 PM
As a Driver and part time official, I have one more SAFETY issue we need to think about !!!!!!!!
1' lug nuts !!!!!! especially on the right side wheels... these are available in almost all thread sizes.. both standard and metric..
check out
Speedway 1-800-979-0122
Behrents 877-372-2348
TC racecars 1-800-296-3760
Smileys -610-852-3390
or whoever your supplier is..............
I know I will not race with out them !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maddawg

Tracy57
10-26-2009, 06:57 PM
Thanks for the compliment Bob, and thanks for all of you who stuck around in the pits to help me get the bent up t-bird back on the trailer, my back was in rough shape (not from racing)... so the help was especially appreciated. here's a few things I observed.

1) the seat needs to be lower than I ever would have imagined to have clearance in a rollover. I sit in the seat with helmet, firesuit, and have tracy make sure she can slide a 1 1/4" piece of square tube between my helmet and the INSIDE of the cage. this pretty much puts the seat on the floor.

2) the seat needs to move with the belts, whatever the belts are fastened to needs to be what the seat is fastened to so the seat can't move without the belts and pinch or crush the driver.

3) I like to have stuff crush as much as possible without contacting the driver, so it absorbs energy. It's too bad the t-bird is crushed, but the energy that went into bending the cage didn't go into someone's neck. If you look at the driver's side of the t-bird it's more and stonger door bars because there's no room for it to fold. Not crushing the driver is priority 1, absorbing energy is second.

Two other hints:
Moses Glick in fleetwood pa sells steel for short money, about $0.40 / pound, it's salvage, etc , so you need to pick thru it (bring tape measure or calipers to check tube size), but it's a good way to get 40-60 ft of tubing. and there might be some rust, but it's how I afford extra bars.


If you don't weld real good, and I get by, speedwaymotors.com has pre-cut gussets for like $5 a pack, it's an easy way to get some extra surface area of weld. I have yet to use them because I just found out, but looks like I'll have a chance to try them out.

and thats everything I know about that.
-Larry

BIGDADDY64
10-26-2009, 07:21 PM
i agree with maddawg on the lugnuts after i lost the rear wheel on my car earlier this year i want race without them now in my opinion i wouldnt run stock steel wheels neither

DerbyN8-128
10-26-2009, 07:50 PM
1) the seat needs to be lower than I ever would have imagined to have clearance in a rollover. I sit in the seat with helmet, firesuit, and have tracy make sure she can slide a 1 1/4" piece of square tube between my helmet and the INSIDE of the cage. this pretty much puts the seat on the floor.



My seat is mounted basically on the floor (the only thing lower is the bracket for the seat which is welded directly to the cage) I am VERY close to NOT being able to see over the steering wheel in my car...but sill enough that I CAN see where I am going. I do not want my head anywhere close to the roof of the car as when I did roll, the roof did crush down enough to hit my helmet. That was with just the roll over bar, I now have a full cage. I still dont want my head close to anything though. :help:

Poppop
10-26-2009, 08:19 PM
Real good point about the gussets Larrry. Those weld joints that may be questionable because you can't see all the way around are prime candidates for gussets and you can double the weld with just one .:applause:

gutter7
10-26-2009, 08:29 PM
If you don't run the sub belt or your sub belt aint tight you better leave 6-8 inches above your head.

mcstockcar
10-26-2009, 10:36 PM
As a Driver and part time official, I have one more SAFETY issue we need to think about !!!!!!!!
1' lug nuts !!!!!! especially on the right side wheels... these are available in almost all thread sizes.. both standard and metric..
check out
Speedway 1-800-979-0122
Behrents 877-372-2348
TC racecars 1-800-296-3760
Smileys -610-852-3390
or whoever your supplier is..............
I know I will not race with out them !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maddawg

Im with you on this one. I lost a wheel on a feild car in our 1/4 mile dirt track. That wheel pulled thru the rim and went flying. Luckily it was a left front and no one got hurt. Tim P. was also a big part of convincing me of them!

tbirdracer
10-27-2009, 01:13 AM
when i called speedway to order 1 inch lugs they told me i could not use them on my stock wheel on the bird. also some cars the axle breakes and their nothing to do to help that. i am going full cage in all my cars to be safe no matter what the rules say. i have a new driver wanting to drive and i will not let him drive my car without the cage being done.

Poppop
10-27-2009, 06:01 AM
Hey Bird, the most likely problem with the wheels is the hole chamfer being 60 degrees. Change them to 90 degrees to match the 1" nuts and you'll be fine if you have steel wheels. You may have to change to slightly longer studs and it wouldn't hurt to reinforce the wheel center.:wave: After doing that you should be able to run five or six laps with no problem.:lol: Just kidding, I couldn't resist.:applause:

Buckshot11
10-27-2009, 01:26 PM
For the metric people....and cheap!

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Metric-1-Inch-Double-Ended-Lug-Nut,6957.html

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/METRIC-1-LUG-NUT-SINGLE-ENDED,1543.html

mcstockcar
10-27-2009, 05:17 PM
The 1" lugs work good for some or most wheels. Some have recessed lugnuts, so those big ones wont fit-i.e aluminum wheels.

CAPTAIN
10-28-2009, 11:20 PM
I talked to the big diamond tech guys, next year full cages with atleast 3 door bars will be mandatory. Safety is the utmost importance. If you want to run at diamond, then you must spend alittle extra on your cages. It's for your own good!!! i think it should be mandatory at neets also. i have seen the way some of you guys drive!!!

tbirdracer
10-28-2009, 11:51 PM
i think you should have at least a 4 point roll cage. captian, cars filp no matter how the drivers drive. they flip up at bdr and at gv. something need to be in place for safety, but i also understand cost for new drivers and if they don't like it they lose the money if they sell. no one wants to pay what you put into the car. this is a start up class for some. if the cost rises to much then why not run a higher class. thats my thought.