any new rules???

[j-rod]

I've heard rumblings about allowing front clips like EVERY OTHER track runs/allows. meaning strut type 2x3 front clip vs. 2x4 and a rack vs. steering box. I like this idea because of two reasons; 1) we can be up to date and on the same playing field as the rest of the lm's around. 2) would allow other cars to come race here if they wanted to(might not be alot, but a couple is better than none). i figured now is a better time to bring this up rather then in feb. which would be too last minute?????????

[DriveitinDeep]

why not, I can just throw all my Sweet Boxes away. They're just gathering dust

[DODGE99]

im sure your sweet boxes could find a home in the charger division Roger. :wave:

[DriveitinDeep]

good point Kevin

[j-rod]

***** i was hoping to see some positive responses to this

[sround]

your not gonna see any J-Rod! Nobody Wants to CHANGE the rules! I think its a great idea because we can be up to par with the late model rules in other states! This change J-Rod is talking about is actually an upgrade to your cars! Easier to work on being the have a rack! easier to set your bump steer, front end parts are cheaper if u add up all the steering components! alot of advantages!

[outlawfab]

I think they should allow a straight rail or a perimiter car with a rack this way the drivers at riverhead would be able to race at other tracks in return other cars would be able to come to riverhead to race also we need to have a race at riverhead that will draw some cars like a $$$1500$$$ to win show put the money on the line they will show up !!! there is all types of ways to do this car entry fee's or sponsors we need to start some where if we want this to work . Word has it that a crate motor is will be coming into the picture soon well i hope sooner then later because the price of a crate motor is about the same as a rebuild on the motor you have now . I would like to see all of the lm drivers and owners come to a ageement on what would keep the division going .The race track needs racecars and the racecars need a place to race !!!!!!!! We have both i think we should try to make this work .

[j-rod]

thanks outlaw, atleast someone agree's. the only thing about that post i question is the crate motor thing. i love the idea of them, but hate how half of them are 'cheated' up. and thats a fact. and 1 more thing that outlaw pointed out was a big money race. just to point out thompson runs weekly for $1500- mountain runs weekly for either $800 or $1000 depending on the car count- the new track shangri-la 2 runs weekly for either $1200 or $1500 depending on the car count- and riverhead runs weekly for $510

[LeadingEdgeFab]

jrod i have been saying this for a few years now why do you think me and dave go everywhere else racks are the only way to go much less $ then a box any less parts too

[kleilamotorsports]

Guess no ones has been to Riverhead's web site lately.
Check out Late Model Rules!

You asked for it you GOT IT

[DriveitinDeep]

word also has it that those rules are going to be pulled back a tad by weeks end.
Racks are fine ( even though I was not in favor of it when this thread first came out) but the open rules about brakes is not. The way it's stated,
someone can go for the big buck 4 piston calipers that the mods run. If you want to do that you have to buy new spindles, new rotors, and 4 calipers.
Show me how that is a cost savings?

[DriveitinDeep]

Sorry, I was reminded that all new hubs would be required also. Add that to the list for upgrading the brakes

[jeffrey]

driveitinDeep when has Riverhead ever try to save you guys some money on anything.they haven't in the past why start now.you are better off buying a mod for what you spend for a late model now days.one ? if you do change over to the 4 piston calipers the mods run would that make a big diffrents.if not why would they make you change over for.:wave:

[DriveitinDeep]

do us all a favor and keep your comments to yourself.

[The Bullfather]

Come on Roger, be nice! I wanted to know the answer, what benefits to switching over, would help or hurt the Late Model division, besides $$$??? As a fan, I'd like to know why they want to make the switch or allow the new rules!

[j-rod]

the point of the rule changes wasn't to save anyone money. it was to allow us to bring our cars if we want up to par with cars from other tracks. no one has to change anything. can our cars win at other tracks with the old stuff we ran? yes, but now it will be just a little bit easier being that we're allowed to be on the same playing field.

[DriveitinDeep]

actually the rules are being changed to try to bring cars from off LI to RR, not the other way around

[Tower Man]

I know for a fact that Riverhead, over the years, has attempted to save teams money. However, whenever this was attempted a select few would cause a stir and changes to save money could not be made.

The biggest mistake the Late Models made was changing the name from Street Stocks to Late Models many years ago.

Tough to go backwards.

[Golf Guy]

the point of the rule changes wasn't to save anyone money. it was to allow us to bring our cars if we want up to par with cars from other tracks. no one has to change anything. can our cars win at other tracks with the old stuff we ran? yes, but now it will be just a little bit easier being that we're allowed to be on the same playing field.

JRod you know of any Riverhead Late Models that can win at other tracks?

[kleilamotorsports]

I know for a fact that Riverhead, over the years, has attempted to save teams money. However, whenever this was attempted a select few would cause a stir and changes to save money could not be made.

The biggest mistake the Late Models made was changing the name from Street Stocks to Late Models many years ago.

Tough to go backwards.

Hey Joe, Your talking like 24 years ago.
Maybe they should still called Novice.

As far saving money on the cars, they have not changed since the birth
(1986)of the Late Model division.
The cost of living has gone up which made metal, plastic and everything else go up.
The cars still for the most part have the same parts
Brakes, Spindles, Hubs, Steering, Bodies. ( stock center links was around $125.00 and aftermarket about $200.00 Can't get the stock OME parts any more )
They went from a stock camaro clip to a fab clip. Over a $100.00 plus in savings.
Howe, Dillon, Stock Car Products were charging more money for a stock clip over a Fab clip.
The engine rule hasn't changed since the Street Stock days. The engines are still the same. Just the cost of living went up.

I'm all for saving money, but they ( Not just Riverhead ANYONE ) needs to come up with a better way to save the competitors money.

TIRE RULE = Maybe 2 tires a week, Yea OK spend more money on Parts then tires. There are some guys on 4 new tires and can't drive a straight line. And then the track messes everything all up by putting corners at the end of a straightaway. Way To Go!

CREATE MOTOR = There's a savings. They start at around $5500.00 and then the guys send them out to be cheated up. I was at the World Series and got my doors blown off by those cheated up 604 create motor that cost in upwards to $15,000.00 (now after) their cheated up. Great Savings!

So where do you save money? The purse hasn't changed in over 24 years.
Soda, Beer, Food, Trailers, even tools. Everything has gone up.
It just cracks me up how a lot of people say we the Late Model guys changed all the rules around and they never have changed. I know for a fact cause I still have rules from 1990 to present. Only thing that has changed is safety items to make it safer for the drivers.

To all the FANS that sit in the grand stands to watch the races, we are glad that you come out to watch us because we do need people in the stands to try and put a show on for you. But it's funny how some come on this board and voice their opinion on how the drivers can save money or drive.
Tell you what, get involved with a team. Do some work and spend every night of the week getting a car ready for the next race. Dig into your pocket and spend some money on what it takes to show up at the track week in and week out. See what it takes to get all that done. (A LOT OF WORK )

It is funny how some sit in the grand stands and comment about a race on how this driver slammed that driver and so on. Tell you what, find a ride. Love to see how some will fair out. Has to be easy cause there is a lot of grand stand DRIVERS that never lost a race.

This is not all directed to you Joe. Cause I don't have an answer on how to save money. If you can't afford to do something find something else to do.
I for one would love to go Sprint Cup Racing but Mike Helton will not change the rules so I can afford to do that, Same with IRL, Fornula One.

As far as the 2x3 rack clips, if you think you are going to draw a car from another track, when most of them race for around $800.00 to $1,500.00 to win, your dreaming, cause that was the intend of the rule change!!!!!

Happy Holidays and have a great winter.
Greg Kleila

[Tower Man]

Greg...excellant post. You are correct in every aspect of what you wrote.
Yeah I guess it was a lifetime ago...I'm old!

Happy Holidays to you as well.

[DriveitinDeep]

Wow Greg, you have been holding that inside for awhile and it just came out all at once. EXCELLENT POST.

[bulldozer]

I thought riverhead was the only track to have low payoffs.My dad won the Turkey Derby in the street stocks. Paid a 50 entry fee.Now there was 30 cars there so 1500 into prize fund. He got paid 350.00. Now i went to mountain paid 50.00 to race and at least that race was 750.00 to win. What was the prize fund for the Late models at the turkey derby? Just doesnt pay to race.LOL

[DODGE99]

i dont know about everyone else here but im not racing to make money. Im young and i'd like to think somewhat talented but i figured out a long time ago that racing ANYWHERE on a local level your not going to make money i dont care who you are. I put all the money i make during each week into my race cars, some people are very fortunate to have at least some kind of income from sponsors. i do not. But i can promise you that every week im able to be at the race track with my car i will be there, not looking for what im going to get back in return but looking for a great night of racing and fun with the few guys that help me. Has anyone ever jotted down on a piece of paper what they spend just on a single night, then on the other side of that paper write down what you got back? Weather you wrecked the car or won the race! NO ONE is making money here. I go to the racetrack bc i love the sport, you all can laugh but im still one of the few die hards that dont go to the race track and sit there all day saying " is it over yet?" " time to go home yet?". And as for those fans that post on here and the ones in the stands commenting and thinking they can do what all of us drivers can do, as long as they paid to get in the gate who cares! We all (anyone that has driven a racecar) know that its DEFINATELY not as easy as it may seem from the grandstands, but we need those people sitting out there every week doing what they do best. :cheers:

[Jeff T]

Good posts by Greg and Kevin. A LOT of good points brought out. As for trying to save money in the sport, it's never going to happen on a local level. Expenses will always rule over income. All you can ever try to do is to minimize the increases. This discussion reminds me of the old Junior Johnson quote. Jr. was asked by a race fan, "How do you make a small fortune in auto racing?". Johnson responded, "Start with a large fortune...".
True, the payoffs for the Late Model division are far behind what they should be, but on the other side of the coin, it's still the only game in town. The Cromarty's have given all of Riverhead's competitors their options...race for what we pay you, or go elsewhere. See how much it's going to cost you to go to Wall, Sundace Valley, Thompson, Stafford, etc. verses what we pay you. Chances are, it will cost you a more money to travel then it does to go to the "Head". If there were another track on the island, then maybe the payoffs would increase because of competition between promoters. Unfortunately, there is not, so we accept what we are paid so that we still have a place to play with our toys and still be close to home.

[Ka$h25]

Great post Kev, and Greg as well. I believe it was Joe Gibbs who said something along the lines of "You can make a small fortune in racing, all you have to do is start with a large fortune." Everyone loses money.


It is funny how some sit in the grand stands and comment about a race on how this driver slammed that driver and so on. Tell you what, find a ride. Love to see how some will fair out. Has to be easy cause there is a lot of grand stand DRIVERS that never lost a race.

As a "grandstand driver", I speak for the most of us when I say we appreciate what you guys and girls do, but that doesn't mean we can't have an opinion on how you do it. For example, have you ever complained about officiating? And have you ever stood on the hill and had to make a call?


Tell you what, get involved with a team. Do some work and spend every night of the week getting a car ready for the next race. Dig into your pocket and spend some money on what it takes to show up at the track week in and week out. See what it takes to get all that done. (A LOT OF WORK )

This isn't a sport that gets graded on effort. It's about what you do, how you do it, and who you do it to. Just because a driver puts in the time, money, and heart to get their car out there every week, that doesn't give them a free pass to drive like- well, how some of the drivers drive.:cheers:

[LeadingEdgeFab]

i though this thread was about some new rules the rule everyone is missing is engine location most tracks have a 2" setback from upper balljoints riverhead is even with the balljoints both are cars have a 2" set back and if this becomes an issue you will not see are cars at riverhead.
kevin is correct we dont race for the money but in a 50 lap race the top 5 should at least get paid enough to cover the tire bill and a 100 lap should cover the top 10

[allhailunc]

don't stray "too" far from the original topic or RGee Boogeyman or maybe even JA Ackleymonster will shut it down

[Tower Man]

Something I thought about a few years back...make common rules amongst the tracks in a 200 mile radius.

Just a thought. And not a thought to take cars from Riverhead, but an opportunity for the true racer to race more often.

As for making money racing...it can be done. I have made money racing since 1989.

The quotes...Kash you are correct. What Junior Johnson said was, "If you want to make a million dollars in racing, start with two million.

[kleilamotorsports]

Ka$h25
As a "grandstand driver", I speak for the most of us when I say we appreciate what you guys and girls do, but that doesn't mean we can't have an opinion on how you do it. For example, have you ever complained about officiating? And have you ever stood on the hill and had to make a call?

Guess you missed the point I was trying to make.

Yes everyone has a right to there own opinion, But my point was that some
( KEY WORD SOME NOT ALL ) like to come on here a bash someone and think they can do a better job. Well put on a helmet and join the field.
I for one, If I think I can do something better than the other person I go out and do it. Not just talk about it. Or say job well done

As far as complaining about the officiating, Yes I do all the time
Just ask Mike C. LOL

And stand on the hill Never have and you wouldn't want me there. Just ask anyone that knows me. I would have no problem making the call.
Do to one Do to all ( THE SAME FOR EVERYONE )

If one competitor did wrong, It would have to be addressed. After a few weeks of the same calls that needed attention we would be racing again out there, Not all the slamming that goes on every once in a while. :angel:

Ka$h2
This isn't a sport that gets graded on effort. It's about what you do, how you do it, and who you do it to. Just because a driver puts in the time, money, and heart to get their car out there every week, that doesn't give them a free pass to drive like- well, how some of the drivers drive.:cheers:

Guess your not a Jam Fan, The Jam grades all the top 10 in points every winter. :cheers:

And no one should get a free pass. You dump someone, You go to the back, Put the person who got dumped back to their spot. If they can't continue to
race you park the Dumper till the other person can make it back out. (Simple)

Not looking for a debate with you, I guess I didn't explain myself enough for you.

Just my OPINION

Have a Merry :cheers:

[The"Roof"Rider]

Guess your not a Jam Fan, The Jam grades all the top 10 in points every winter. :cheers:

Speaking of Jam grades... Any chance we will get grades this year?

[The Bullfather]

Grades hasn't been done in years!!! The Jam decided to do an over all season review the past year or two in replace of the grading system.:)

[DriveitinDeep]

I think there will be a meeting come the end of Jan. at the Polish Hall to clear up some of the rules questions:applause::applause::applause:

It would seem the only changes for the Late Models will be the Rack & Pinion addition plus the 2 x 3 clips. No motor set back is allowed as in the past. These are option changes, not mandatory.
There will be no 4 or 6 puck calipers allowed as well.