Is it Time to make the SK's the New Mod's

[GLC050]

Is it time to shake things up and make the SK's the new Mod's. Car counts would jump and engine costs would fall. Just a thought.

[MaKiN Em SiCk]

Although the thought is that it would be more cost effective, those that have the money to spend on them would find a way to out money the ones that dont... I think sooner or later it would end up getting to be just like the tour mods now...

JMO.... but I would like to see a more cost effective way of racing.

[Sicklajoie]

It's funny how the Stafford SK Lights are what the SK's were supposed to be originally. But even that has changed since the crate engines are really no longer sealed like they were supposed to be.

[Teds Race Tours]

Is it time to shake things up and make the SK's the new Mod's. Car counts would jump and engine costs would fall. Just a thought.

while your costs may drop, be prepared for an even bigger drop in purse, as the fan base would take a big hit, and I'd doubt the promoters would pay any kind of sizable purse for an SK type race.

[Goldy]

Curious as to the payout structure for the SK type weekly shows here in CT??

For SK’s - I'm thinking along the lines of firming / tightening up of a tire rule, spec motor, and associated costs, etc..

Less laps = lower tire costs & less $$ on your motor.. run locally, less travel expense..

It's all relative isn't it? A 50 lap weekly show doesn't require a $4000.00 to win payout does it?

In my mind, we're more than a quarter of the way there already with the "tour type talent" that often runs in local SK type features..

It's not that crazy or blasphemous of a thought.. I’ve been thinking this for years..

Would it be that awful to go to Stafford every Friday night and see Teddy, Stefanik, Coby, Malave, Bolles, Pallai, Heitala, Avery, Summers, Flemke, Preece, Sylvester, Berndt, Pitkat, Rocco,…. Outsiders from NJ like Blewett and Tomanio showing up for a 100 lapper.. cars from Thompson and Waterford mixing it all up, interchangeably.. incentive and affordability to run at multiple tracks in your region or outside it..

Personally – I don’t see the downside.. perhaps we’re just cycling back to the way it all used to be?

Tour car counts dwindling; plenty of SK type and SK lights around..

Dumb it all down, for the betterment of Modified racing..

Ok, I'll go hide behind something and you can all throw stuff in my general direction..

[BChat]

Good post Goldy, I agree with you.

[Racer1_NC]

It would save me some cash because I sure wouldn't travel to see a SK race.

[Ben Althen]

Goldy, here is the payout for Stafford. Opens in MS Word. http://staffordspeedway.com/Pages/Multimedia/Downloads_Word_PDF_Files/2008-WEEKLY-PURSES.doc

Waterford was $1200 to win in 2008, not sure what it is now.

All 3 tracks currently have tire rules, and they all differ. Stafford has an inventory and credit system where you can have 10 tires on inventory, and you get 2 new credits each week. If you do not use those credits, they roll over, so you would have 4 the next week, etc. You can only have 8 credits and after that you cannot keep accruing them. I am not totally up on Waterford's rules, only that they alternate, one week you can buy 2 tires, the next 3, and so on and so forth. Thompson's is similar to Stafford's, but not quite the same, I'm not positive on the difference.

Stafford has a Spec engine program, as does Waterford. I'm not sure the status of the Bowl's, but you can run a Stafford Spec engine at Waterford.

One thing it seems like people forget is that it costs the same to fix a wrecked SK or SK Lite as it does a Tour car.

[GLC050]

You would go to see a Mod Tour Race with a create motor. You already have seen a Create Motor in Johnny Busch's car. Did it look different ? Did you even know. Back in 1988 SK's were elevated to Mods by Stafford, and you saw some of the best races ever. As a Mod fan you have to fix the Mod's while there is Mod's to fix.

[BobG]

I would think the way is to require everyone to have a sealed spec motor. All the tracks that runs sk modifieds should put a rule in place specifying spec motors I think that will cost of motors in half or more.

[Racer1_NC]

You would go to see a Mod Tour Race with a create motor.
Might go see one with the cars running crate motors..... ;)



You already have seen a Create Motor in Johnny Busch's car. Did it look different ? Did you even know.
I was aware. In all fairness I can't say that I have noticed much difference either way in the car's performance the few times I've seen it run this year.



As a Mod fan you have to fix the Mod's while there is Mod's to fix.
On that much we agree....problem is that no matter what you do to control costs, those with the dollars to spend will find a way to do so. I tend to lean more towards increasing the payouts from first to last. While NASCAR hasn't done much to promote the division, I'm not sure anyone else would have done any more.

[Gil]

I would think the way is to require everyone to have a sealed spec motor. All the tracks that runs sk modifieds should put a rule in place specifying spec motors I think that will cost of motors in half or more.

Thereby putting a lot of small engine builders out of business?

[GLC050]

The purse structure is not the issue. When only 36 cars show up for a $100,000. NH race you got a problem.............When Mod engines are $50,000 and up and builders require the purchase of two or more to get there good stuff you got a problem......The fan can not pay anymore you got a problem.........

[Axel]

years ago there was a thread on here (or maybe Mod Series Scene) abt SK motors being almost as expensive -- like 40k.

I could be wrong about that, but that's what i remember...

[Jaws]

years ago there was a thread on here (or maybe Mod Series Scene) abt SK motors being almost as expensive -- like 40k.

I could be wrong about that, but that's what i remember...

I think they are but they last longer I believe.

[jeep4x486]

Maybe there are other factors at hand in teams not showing up to races like New Hampshire even though it has a large purse. Maybe it has to do with additional Nascar related costs, licesnses, pit admissions etc. This may defer say a modified racing series team from trying to make the attempt at the bigger money show. Also the fact that it is a multi day event I am sure keeps teams away. The modifieds are not the cup series, they should only have a single day show.

[Racer1_NC]

The purse structure is not the issue. When only 36 cars show up for a $100,000. NH race you got a problem.............When Mod engines are $50,000 and up and builders require the purchase of two or more to get there good stuff you got a problem......The fan can not pay anymore you got a problem.........

I think we aren't on the same page here......if EVERY race had a 100k plus purse. I'd be right there with ya. There are not that many races that pay that much thus making the required investment in engines even more ridiculous. If you had race purses that all started out at 100k and went up then 50k for an engine wouldn't be so out of place......

You are right.....the fan can not pay more. I agree 100%. The fan doesn't foot the bill for a "big 3" race.....sponsors do. I guess that's what I'm shooting for here.....more corporate money in the deal when the economy picks up.

[Racer1_NC]

Maybe there are other factors at hand in teams not showing up to races like New Hampshire even though it has a large purse. Maybe it has to do with additional Nascar related costs, licesnses, pit admissions etc. This may defer say a modified racing series team from trying to make the attempt at the bigger money show. Also the fact that it is a multi day event I am sure keeps teams away. The modifieds are not the cup series, they should only have a single day show.

There is also the possibility of teams with the mentality of "We don't have a chance to win, so why bother".

[Ben Althen]

Most built SK engines are in the 15-20k range, while Specs range from 10-15k to the best of my knowledge.

[MXCHAMP04]

Maybe there are other factors at hand in teams not showing up to races like New Hampshire even though it has a large purse. Maybe it has to do with additional Nascar related costs, licesnses, pit admissions etc. This may defer say a modified racing series team from trying to make the attempt at the bigger money show. Also the fact that it is a multi day event I am sure keeps teams away. The modifieds are not the cup series, they should only have a single day show.

This is exactly why some MRS teams won't run whelen mod races. To get liscenses for the driver and all the crew would be outrageous. This is exactly the reason they run MRS. I would have loved to see Kirk Alexander run at Monadnock last week, but the costs associated with that would be ridiculous.

[Sicklajoie]

I would have loved to see Kirk Alexander run at Monadnock last week, but the costs associated with that would be ridiculous.

Absolutely.

[CTtoPA]

All the fees teams get charged are ridiculous. Why is that necessary? Most of the pieces are in place to have a series without NASCAR. Can anybody tell me what NASCAR brings to the table to make them the most attractive option?

[RGeeProductions]

All the fees teams get charged are ridiculous. Why is that necessary? Most of the pieces are in place to have a series without NASCAR. Can anybody tell me what NASCAR brings to the table to make them the most attractive option?

It brings NASCAR.....

[Jaws]

They should have 1 race licences available to teams that will not run the full schedule. Pro rate it.

[GLC050]

Right on Jaws, or even just charge the Driver and Owner. I can tell you we would have been out this year.

[Sicklajoie]

They should have 1 race licences available to teams that will not run the full schedule. Pro rate it.
Completely agree. Car counts would definitely rise.

[CynthiaTork]

It brings NASCAR.....

That and a bag of chips will give you nothing but greasy fingers and an empty wallet

[BChat]

It brings NASCAR.....

And they bring what exactly?

[RGeeProductions]

And they bring what exactly?
Their name only... that was my point....

[BChat]

Just checking ----------- I agree totally.

[MJProcko]

Maybe there are other factors at hand in teams not showing up to races like New Hampshire even though it has a large purse. Maybe it has to do with additional Nascar related costs, licesnses, pit admissions etc. This may defer say a modified racing series team from trying to make the attempt at the bigger money show. Also the fact that it is a multi day event I am sure keeps teams away. The modifieds are not the cup series, they should only have a single day show.

I went to the MRS season opening race at Waterford, A Nascar sanctioned track. I think they charged an extra 10 bucks to enter the pits. So I ask, is there a seperate Nascar license for weekly racing and the Modified tour? If there is not, wouldn't teams already involved with weekly Nascar racing at tracks such as Waterford, Thompson, Stafford and Monadnock have a license? And if every Nascar sanction track that the runs a MRS race charges extra to get in the pits your well on your way to paying nearly as much over the course of the year as having paid for the Nascar license.

[Sicklajoie]

I went to the MRS season opening race at Waterford, A Nascar sanctioned track. I think they charged an extra 10 bucks to enter the pits. So I ask, is there a seperate Nascar license for weekly racing and the Modified tour? If there is not, wouldn't teams already involved with weekly Nascar racing at tracks such as Waterford, Thompson, Stafford and Monadnock have a license? And if every Nascar sanction track that the runs a MRS race charges extra to get in the pits your well on your way to paying nearly as much over the course of the year as having paid for the Nascar license.
I've been getting a Charger License ($90) since 1986. I was able to use that license as a Modified Tour tire changer until, I believe it was 2002, I was told my Charger License wasn't good enough and I had to get a Tour License ($200 something dollars - I couldn't just upgrade my license by paying the difference - I had to get a whole different one) just to change tires!

[GLC050]

Last time I bought a Tour License it was $ 385.00 per person average 10 person crew and you got $ 3,850.00 divided by 14 races = $ 275.00 per race plus $ 125.00 entry fee and the Track Admission (Avg. $35.00 per ) and the team spent $ 750.00 just to park the hauler. Add food, lodging and drivers share and you well over $ 1,300.00 just to park the hauler. Now lets race............

[MOD11RACER]

All the fees teams get charged are ridiculous. Why is that necessary? Most of the pieces are in place to have a series without NASCAR. Can anybody tell me what NASCAR brings to the table to make them the most attractive option?

A $300,000 POINT FUND that's what they bring to the table.

[MJProcko]

I've been getting a Charger License ($90) since 1986. I was able to use that license as a Modified Tour tire changer until, I believe it was 2002, I was told my Charger License wasn't good enough and I had to get a Tour License ($200 something dollars - I couldn't just upgrade my license by paying the difference - I had to get a whole different one) just to change tires!

So anyone who say, works weekly on a SK crew at stafford would not be allowed to change a tire for a WMT car? How do they enforce this?

[MOD11RACER]

:disgusted:disgusted:disgusted:disgusted Why would anyone in their right mind think this is a good idea ? The SK Modified division is dying a slow death. Look at the car counts below.

It's time to put this puppy to bed. For all of the SK fans out there here is the real count of Modified race cars that raced last weekend, despite the cost of running a tour type Modified. It looks real healthy to me. Manodnock draws more Modifieds running bi-weekly than any of the three CT tracks running SK's weekly.

The weekend of July 15 thru July 18.

Monadnock - WMT - 26
Oxford - MRS - 25
Chemung - ROC - 28
Only one Modified ran two of the above three events (98 Rudolph) with the same Modified.
Riverhead Regular Show - 21
Mahoning Valley Regular Show - 18
Sundance (Mountain) Regular Show - 11
Shangri-La II Regular Show - 16

Total - 145 Real Modifieds

Not Counting:

Monadnock Weekly Tour Type Modified Car Counts - 26
Wall Tour Type Modifieds
Dunn Tire (Lancaster) Tour Type Modifieds
And there were plenty of other Tour Type Modifieds that did not race this past weekend. I could go thru the list of Tour Type Modifieds, but it would take too long to list them all.

SK Modifieds:

Thompson - 20
4 cars short of a full field
Stafford - 23
1 car short of a full field
Waterford - 22
2 cars short of a full field

Total 65

This thread is backwards.

Just maybe they should do away with the SK so called Modified and make them run a real Tour Type Modified and the Tour Type Modified would have an even bigger pool of Modifieds to race with.

[CTtoPA]

A $300,000 POINT FUND that's what they bring to the table.

That would do it! Is Whelen responsible for any of that?

[GM2]

I've been getting a Charger License ($90) since 1986. I was able to use that license as a Modified Tour tire changer until, I believe it was 2002, I was told my Charger License wasn't good enough and I had to get a Tour License ($200 something dollars - I couldn't just upgrade my license by paying the difference - I had to get a whole different one) just to change tires!

Whomever told you that is full of BS. you should have been able to upgrade your license. It sounds like this was years ago but if it was this year then I would call the Nascar office and complain about it.

[uticamike]

:disgusted:disgusted:disgusted:disgusted Why would anyone in their right mind think this is a good idea ? The SK Modified division is dying a slow death. Look at the car counts below.

It's time to put this puppy to bed. For all of the SK fans out there here is the real count of Modified race cars that raced last weekend, despite the cost of running a tour type Modified. It looks real healthy to me. Manodnock draws more Modifieds running bi-weekly than any of the three CT tracks running SK's weekly.

The weekend of July 15 thru July 18.

Monadnock - WMT - 26
Oxford - MRS - 25
Chemung - ROC - 28
Only one Modified ran two of the above three events (98 Rudolph) with the same Modified.
Riverhead Regular Show - 21
Mahoning Valley Regular Show - 18
Sundance (Mountain) Regular Show - 11
Shangri-La II Regular Show - 16

Total - 145 Real Modifieds

Not Counting:

Monadnock Weekly Tour Type Modified Car Counts - 26
Wall Tour Type Modifieds
Dunn Tire (Lancaster) Tour Type Modifieds
And there were plenty of other Tour Type Modifieds that did not race this past weekend. I could go thru the list of Tour Type Modifieds, but it would take too long to list them all.

SK Modifieds:

Thompson - 20
4 cars short of a full field
Stafford - 23
1 car short of a full field
Waterford - 22
2 cars short of a full field

Total 65

This thread is backwards.

Just maybe they should do away with the SK so called Modified and make them run a real Tour Type Modified and the Tour Type Modified would have an even bigger pool of Modifieds to race with.

I get your point and do agree somewhat however you display a bias that doesn't

really tell the whole picture. Only listing the SK type do you use the reference "less than a full field". just what in 2010 is a "full field"? Nobody,dirt or asphalt using a 70-80's standard has a ff anymore. Car counts are down in every division all over (the northeast I'm talking). Interesting that Riverhead (with no B mod pressure) struggles to top a 20 count. FF there?

The PA tracks MV and SVS continue to shoot each other but 18+11 is still under a 30 count. Is this the new normal? S2 has anywhere from 12-17 on any night but a 1/4 of them are one families field fillers. In reality only about 3 or 4 cars are able to put on a decent show there. A spin and crash festival otherwise.

The Tour? A 26 count for a NASCAR Modified race is a Joke. This race was in NE
for Godssake. I could see it if it were Mansfield or even J-Town but Winchester, NH? Healthy it's not. You did hear about M-ville I assume.

The ROC with 28 cars (even without current points leader C. Hossfeld showing) was ....OK I guess but 5 years ago we'd cringe if it got below 40. ( the sportmod
has been on the scene a lot longer that that so look elsewhere for the blame for this). IF one tour is healthy it's the MRS. They do a pretty good job of containing cost and their races are mostly very competitive.

Now I'm not saying I'd rather have (B's) over (real) Modifieds but blaming the demise of Modifieds on them is a gross oversimplification in my view. The economic realities of the day for car owners, drivers, track operators, crewmen and the fans is where most of the problem lies.

[Sicklajoie]

Whomever told you that is full of BS. you should have been able to upgrade your license. It sounds like this was years ago but if it was this year then I would call the Nascar office and complain about it.
What did I say in my post?? It was 2002. Maybe things have changed since then.

[Sicklajoie]

So anyone who say, works weekly on a SK crew at stafford would not be allowed to change a tire for a WMT car? How do they enforce this?

Back when I was doing it you had to go to the NASCAR trailer and show your NASCAR license in order to get a wrist band that got you on pit road. I don't know what their procedure is now.