Riverhead officiating

[JWfor8x]

Is it just me, or was the NASCAR officiating at Riverhead terrible last night? I don't know why the pit gate wasn't openned for the 96 car during the first caution, but it sure seemed to me that he went a lap up on the field before they finally openned the pit gate. Since he didn't come back, that didn't matter. What did matter though was on that restart, not only did the NASCAR safety truck in the infield keep his lights on, but so did the pace car on the green flag lap. The starter was franticly waving him into the infield as he was throwing the green. Isn't there any radio communication? Later, Brunnhoelzl lost the lead on a restart because the pace car was in his lane on the restart. Was he supposed to hit the pace car? I'm still trying to figure out what happenned when Kevin Goodale was spun just before a caution and then got his position back. Again, maybe I'm missing something? I also think it would have been appropriate for Christopher to be penalized for backing up from the infield after a spin right in front of the leaders to bring out a caution. Yes, he lost a lap, but he could have caused a major wreck and I think a penalty was deserved.
I'm sorry to be complaining so much, as I really did enjoy the race, but the poor officiating left a bad taste for me.

[ModTourMan]

There were definitely some serious communication issues between NASCAR and the Riverhead track crew early in the event as well...the NASCAR official appeared to be scolding the track crew for trying to clean up the liquid in turn 1 too quickly. There were at least 5 laps lost during that incident. Things got squared away after that though

[Teds Race Tours]

Not sure what was going on with the Tour Officials. I agree that I thought they had a bad race. The whole Howie Brode thing was confusing to say the least. The Pace Car blocking GBIII's restart should have been a do-over, as it really looked like it cost the 46 the lead. I thought Justin was &^*&%# over when the yellow came out immediately and they said 46 led that lap.

Having said all that, it was truly one of the top tour races ever at Riverhead. 4 different leaders, and outside of the consi, there really was no freight train racing that you can get at Riverhead. Can't wait for next year. Maybe we get 2 races? The place was PACKED.

[Rich Mergl]

What about the officials letting steuer sit between turn 3 & 4 for laps & laps.
Think maybe they were sending brodie and steuer a message ????????

[unowho243]

Yeah i agree the NASCAR TOUR officials dropped the ball in almost every way possible last night... and the pace car thing was not only dangerous but cost someone a possible win

and as for the 96 car that was B.S they wouldnt let him in the pits. the guy waited 4 laps then they let him in and throw the green the next lap... and to let chucky sit in 3/4 for that long yes i do believe the officials had it out for the regulars

[Fkraft99]

while I agree there was some questionable calls during the race. the deal with the 96 was he pulled up too soon to pit. In the drivers meeting we were told it would be communicated through the spotters when it was ok to pull up, Howie pulled up as soon as the yellow was out. So technically the pits were not open yet, and it would have been an unfair advantage to let howie in, while the other guys that wanted to pit were still in line following the rules waiting to pit.

Only other thing I can say about the restarts is, for years the pace car turned into the infield off of turn 2 and the pack went down the backstretch by themselves. After Saturdays race i think its pretty clear we need to go back to doing that.

[TMAC]

Could not believe how close the modifieds got to pace car on that restart.I thought that cost GeorgeIII BIG TIME on that restart.OH i sent JA AND RICHIE some video to post....

[limodmaniac]

Wasn't it a Racing with Jesus pace car? You spin that out and no telling what may happen to you!

[Magicshoes12]

Wasn't it a Racing with Jesus pace car? You spin that out and no telling what may happen to you!

LOL...now thats funny right there!!

[Jaws]

Wasn't it a Racing with Jesus pace car? You spin that out and no telling what may happen to you!

George let up Justin floored it, I'm just saying!

[limodmaniac]

George had pace car in front of him

[TMAC]

HA! Thought same thing,but in my mind it screwed gbIII big time

[KyleMac45]

I agree with everyone, it was a mess with the NASCAR Communication, they just could not it right AT ALL, hopin the rest of the year is good to go, an everything can be done ina timely matter so we can see MORE green flag action


Kyle

[limodmaniac]

The officials don't know how to run a race on a 1/4 mile bullring.

[Bob T. Racer]

The officials don't know how to run a race on a 1/4 mile bullring.

Or a 1/2 mile or 5/8 mile or 1 mile! For a simple spin at ANY of the tracks, they ride around under yellow for up to 10 laps at a time, most of the time for no reason whatsoever!! As soon as there's a spin, they should double up next time by or the next lap. 3 laps the most before they go green. If they can't figure out the lineup by then, someone needs a pink slip.

[Sicklajoie]

Or a 1/2 mile or 5/8 mile or 1 mile! For a simple spin at ANY of the tracks, they ride around under yellow for up to 10 laps at a time, most of the time for no reason whatsoever!! As soon as there's a spin, they should double up next time by or the next lap. 3 laps the most before they go green. If they can't figure out the lineup by then, someone needs a pink slip.
That's what I don't get. They run transponders, don't they? Why does it take so flippin long to line up??

[NWMT PR]

For the record, there have been four instances this year where a caution has lasted 10 laps. Once at Martinsville, twice at Monadnock and once at Riverhead. There has not been one longer that 10 laps. I think it goes without saying that the laps click off faster at the quarter-mile tracks, so it stands to reason that the caution periods would be longer there if measured by laps.

In eight races so far this year, the avearge race features 8.625 cautions for 50.25 laps, or 5.8 laps per caution.

I would encourage fans who have a scanner or radio to listen to NASCAR Race Control the next time they go to their favorate track. There are many things that factor in to the length of a caution period. I can assure you, Race Control has every intention of hustling the process in a safe and reasonable manner.

[Bob T. Racer]

For the record, there have been four instances this year where a caution has lasted 10 laps. Once at Martinsville, twice at Monadnock and once at Riverhead. There has not been one longer that 10 laps. I think it goes without saying that the laps click off faster at the quarter-mile tracks, so it stands to reason that the caution periods would be longer there if measured by laps.

In eight races so far this year, the avearge race features 8.625 cautions for 50.25 laps, or 5.8 laps per caution.

I would encourage fans who have a scanner or radio to listen to NASCAR Race Control the next time they go to their favorate track. There are many things that factor in to the length of a caution period. I can assure you, Race Control has every intention of hustling the process in a safe and reasonable manner.

We do listen to NASCAR, and if we weren't lifetime racers and fans it would ALMOST be funny as to what they have to say, but it's not. When is the last time we ran 50.25 laps? How many caution laps for a 125 or 150 lap race? What's the % of green laps versus yellow in those races?

[NWMT PR]

We do listen to NASCAR, and if we weren't lifetime racers and fans it would ALMOST be funny as to what they have to say, but it's not. When is the last time we ran 50.25 laps? How many caution laps for a 125 or 150 lap race? What's the % of green laps versus yellow in those races?

I was just trying to report the exact calculations, but I can certainly round up if you wish.

If you want to just use a half mile track as a baseline (half the size of NHMS, double the size of Riverhead and Monadnock), then here are the numbers for the last year and a half, rounded up to whole numbers ... 11 cautions per race for 50 laps = 5 laps per caution period.

[Bob T. Racer]

I was just trying to report the exact calculations, but I can certainly round up if you wish.

If you want to just use a half mile track as a baseline (half the size of NHMS, double the size of Riverhead and Monadnock), then here are the numbers for the last year and a half, rounded up to whole numbers ... 11 cautions per race for 50 laps = 5 laps per caution period.

No need to round up anything. Big wrecks absolutely take more laps to clean up, but the simple spins into the infield and they ride around for 8-10 laps is a joke. What part don't the officials get? People don't pay good money to see the cars ride around at 1/2 throttle. Some of the spins there shouldn't even have a caution to begin with because the car keeps going, but they throw it before they even know and then the cars ride around under yellow for no reason.

[Bob T. Racer]

Another thing about the restarts. This year the leader has choice of lanes on the restart, if I'm not mistaken. I also thought after the green came out that the leader had to be the first one to the start-finish line or the second place car would be penalized if he beat the leader to the line. Like what they told Santos at Stafford when he went to soon.

[NWMT PR]

Another thing about the restarts. This year the leader has choice of lanes on the restart, if I'm not mistaken. I also thought after the green came out that the leader had to be the first one to the start-finish line or the second place car would be penalized if he beat the leader to the line. Like what they told Santos at Stafford when he went to soon.

You are correct that the leader chooses this year. But, the leader is not required to lead at the line like the national series. Racing is to begin at the restart line, and if the leader does not go at the line, the flagman restarts the race and there can be a lead change by the start/finish line. The problem arises when the 2nd place car goes before the restart line and before the flagman restarts the race.

[Bob T. Racer]

You are correct that the leader chooses this year. But, the leader is not required to lead at the line like the national series. Racing is to begin at the restart line, and if the leader does not go at the line, the flagman restarts the race and there can be a lead change by the start/finish line. The problem arises when the 2nd place car goes before the restart line and before the flagman restarts the race.

Thanks for the clarification. Why don't they have it like the Big Three? It wouldn't have cost GB3 the lead at the Head if they had it.

[Sicklajoie]

Thanks for the clarification. Why don't they have it like the Big Three? It wouldn't have cost GB3 the lead at the Head if they had it.

I'm actually glad it's this way. It let's the racers race. Why should the 2nd place guy be penalized if the leader misses a shift or is asleep at the start.
I do agree that GBIII got screwed because of the pacecar, however.

[GM2]

How many of the cautions get extended because drivers do not get into place correctly? Many times I've heard the tower telling drivers to get into place but they don't listen and they ride around for a couple of laps until they get into the right position.

[MJProcko]

Cautions for spins are apart of racing and unless they are not going to allow pitting during cautions, depending on the size of the tracks, you are going to need a minimum of 3-5 laps to get cars in and out of the pits and lined back up. What I would do if I was Nascar is not count cautions at tracks like Monadnock and Riverhead that have no direct access to infield pitting. As long as the races are long enough to account for the races where cautions count there is no difference weather you count them or not with the rare exceptions like Martinsville.

The goal should be to get around 125-150 green flag laps at places like Stafford and if things go well you could get 170 green flag laps out of a 200 lap race. Places like Riverhead should be 150 green only laps as the track is just to small. Anything less than 75 miles or 125 green laps of racing and the race fan is getting cheated when you consider the lack of WMT races and the cost.

NWMT PR - I feel for ya because as far as caution laps go on this board the opinions are as diverse yankee/red sox, dem/gop, etc and you'll never please everyone but I am right about it so listen to me haha :D

[GM2]

Cautions for spins are apart of racing and unless they are not going to allow pitting during cautions, depending on the size of the tracks, you are going to need a minimum of 3-5 laps to get cars in and out of the pits and lined back up. What I would do if I was Nascar is not count cautions at tracks like Monadnock and Riverhead that have no direct access to infield pitting. As long as the races are long enough to account for the races where cautions count there is no difference weather you count them or not with the rare exceptions like Martinsville.

The goal should be to get around 125-150 green flag laps at places like Stafford and if things go well you could get 170 green flag laps out of a 200 lap race. Places like Riverhead should be 150 green only laps as the track is just to small. Anything less than 75 miles or 125 green laps of racing and the race fan is getting cheated when you consider the lack of WMT races and the cost.

This makes sense. On tracks with no infield pitting (i.e. bullrings) don't count caution laps.

[Teds Race Tours]

For the record, there have been four instances this year where a caution has lasted 10 laps. Once at Martinsville, twice at Monadnock and once at Riverhead. There has not been one longer that 10 laps. I think it goes without saying that the laps click off faster at the quarter-mile tracks, so it stands to reason that the caution periods would be longer there if measured by laps.

In eight races so far this year, the avearge race features 8.625 cautions for 50.25 laps, or 5.8 laps per caution.

I would encourage fans who have a scanner or radio to listen to NASCAR Race Control the next time they go to their favorate track. There are many things that factor in to the length of a caution period. I can assure you, Race Control has every intention of hustling the process in a safe and reasonable manner.

The NASCAR Officials have to realize that in these instances, 10 laps of caution at Riverhead and Monadnock represent 5.7% of the scheduled race(twice at Monadnock is more than 11 percent of the race_. the lap 2 caution at riverhead was for a spin that wasnt even on the track. It took 9 laps to get going again for a spin. There needs to be an urgency not only for safety and accuracy for the drivers, but to have as many green flag laps as possible for the paying fan. These aren't 500 lap or 500 miles events where there is plenty of time to race. Sorry, but 9 or 10 laps of caution for a spin is not getting the job done well in many race fans opinions.

[SUfan]

Okay so let me get this straight. You people would rather see a 100-lap race green flag only instead of 107 laps (Riverhead WMT) of green flag racing in an announced 175 lap race?
Is it really that big of a difference? You actually got an extra seven laps at Riverhead, which turned out to be a pretty exciting seven laps at that. Is that such a bad thing worth complaining about?
Or am I wrong and this is a case of people wanting to see a longer race that would need tire changes and might cost the teams more money?

[Teds Race Tours]

Okay so let me get this straight. You people would rather see a 100-lap race green flag only instead of 109 laps (Riverhead WMT) of green flag racing in an announced 175 lap race?
Is it really that big of a difference? You actually got an extra nine laps at Riverhead, which turned out to be a pretty exciting nine laps at that. Is that such a bad thing worth complaining about?
Or am I wrong and this is a case of people wanting to see a longer race that would need tire changes and cost the teams more money?

2 years ago we had a 147 lapper with 95 caution laps. Thats less than 50 laps....I'll take the 100, 125, or 150 green flag laps.

http://www.thechromehorn.com/news/2008/wmt/news080208.htm

[SUfan]

That's true. At least with green only laps fans know how much racing they will see. But this year it would have been worse to have 100 green only laps.

[RGeeProductions]

You know, Riverhead and Monadnock are 1/2 the size of Stafford, Thompson, Martinsville, etc, therefore caution laps would naturally be more since the track crews/officials go at the same speed when the laps are going by quicker then the larger tracks...
You can not pick out 1 race and use that as an example. Jason's averages are the best way....

[MJProcko]

Okay so let me get this straight. You people would rather see a 100-lap race green flag only instead of 107 laps (Riverhead WMT) of green flag racing in an announced 175 lap race?
Is it really that big of a difference? You actually got an extra seven laps at Riverhead, which turned out to be a pretty exciting seven laps at that. Is that such a bad thing worth complaining about?
Or am I wrong and this is a case of people wanting to see a longer race that would need tire changes and might cost the teams more money?

That's the usual arguement fo some, that 100 green flag laps is great and anything longer like the 200 lap sizzler is just too long a race. However the 200+lap MRS race at Waterford this year was somehow ok because there was 100 "green" flag laps. Silly isn't it?

[Teds Race Tours]

You know, Riverhead and Monadnock are 1/2 the size of Stafford, Thompson, Martinsville, etc, therefore caution laps would naturally be more since the track crews/officials go at the same speed when the laps are going by quicker then the larger tracks...
You can not pick out 1 race and use that as an example. Jason's averages are the best way....

I fully understand the size difference. The pace car goes much slower at Riverhead and Monadnock than at the other tracks, so lap times are quciker, but its not as big a difference as it would seem. A horrible job is a horrible job. As I said, I have had many conversations with modified fans, and one of the biggest complaints is the amount of caution laps. The Whelen Modified Tour is NOT Sprint Cup Racing, and the need to count caution laps is just silly. Its really too bad that the people who are in control of the series just have no idea what the Modifieds are all about.

[uticamike]

That's the usual arguement fo some, that 100 green flag laps is great and anything longer like the 200 lap sizzler is just too long a race. However the 200+lap MRS race at Waterford this year was somehow ok because there was 100 "green" flag laps. Silly isn't it?

Not silly at all. You MAY see the cars go around 200 times but they raced for 100
of them. Did you plop down your money to see cars circle the track or did you go
to see them race? Pacin' ain't racin. (where have I seen that before?)

[Howie]

The count cautions or don’t count cautions argument will never end. Everyone has their idea of which is best and I’ve never seen anyone change their mind yet. If I go to a 150 lap race and there are 25, 30, 35 caution laps that count, I don’t feel that I’ve been gypped. It happens, I expect it to happen when I go. Like wise if I go see 100 lap race where cautions don’t count and it goes 125, 130, 135 laps I sure don’t feel that I’ve gotten a bonus. Either way I have to wait while there is down time. They don’t tell you how many laps are run under caution when they don’t count them, but we still have to wait for them. There is no perfect answer in my book. Counting them will sometimes mercifully let an awful race end. How would this thread read if they didn’t count cautions at Martinsville this year. That was an uncommon race for sure. Would people have been happier to see the 200 lap race (actually 204) with 119 caution laps that happened or the 323 lap race not counting cautions? (Of course it could have been 400 laps or more by the time they ran the extra 119 laps, but we’d have never known because they weren’t counted). The officials don’t cause the cautions, drivers do. So we wait for the track crews and officials to make it safe to go racing again. I know what they are going to do when I get there, it doesn’t matter either way to me, I try to enjoy the racing, however many green flag laps there may be.

[RGeeProductions]

Dang... Riverhead's race would have been 243 laps then!!!! Nice point Howie and I agree.. ;)