Entertain an idea...

[CJfilms]

We've been receiving a lot of input regarding moving dead cars from the speedway....

Due to the economic times, we understand how costly the loss of a car might be to a driver at this point in time. We will entertain the "idea" of moving cars from the groove off the track, however, we need your input and I NEED YOU TO TAKE THIS SERIOUS. This might mean a great increase in car counts, however if everyone is against it, I want to know why....

The days of old enduros are not dead, but we are far from it right now...100's of cars on the track is a true enduro...traffic jams due to high car counts is enduro racing....at this time, we need to do something to bring those times back....or else we will slowly start to see enduros fade away...

Voting is open to ALL.... Please keep any posts on this thread relevant to the topic...we can joke around any other time....

Thank you for your input!

[EnduroFromDE]

Joe, I think your right. I love trying to race around the "dead cars" but If we can save from these 3 or 4 cars getting destroyed and unraceable again every race then maybe we can get back up to the 60, 70, 80, or even 90 car count in each division like at Mountain. But then again I wouldnt want to see a red every 15-20 laps to remove these cars off the track.

[Erin C]

I am going to express my view on this, which hasn't changed since I was first introduced to enduro's at a young age.

The definition of endure is to put up with something unpleasant; continue to live/last; persist for a specific period of time...which is the perfect description for ENDURO...you are putting up with obstacles, you are trying to out last every other car for a specified amount of laps.

Speed is not necessarily what will make you win in an Enduro, it's more like longevity...you can't win if you don't finish. Taking obstacles off the track is going to make that statement irrelevant...then speed will be a big factor in winning as long as the track is clear!

I don't think talent [in this specific class of stock car racing] should be determined by how fast you can make your car, I think talent and deserving a win should come from ENDURING in the sport, as expected from the name ENDURO...if you are out there to beat and bang on people and end up getting taken out, you don't deserve to win...if you are out there keeping your nose clean and successfully avoid all the obstacles that can jump out there at any given moment then you deserve the win and lots of recognition. There are SEVERAL people currently racing with us who have endured through many races on the same car...these guys are the true talent that makes the sport what I know and love.

If you take away what makes an Enduro what it is then my feeling is this series would be a lie...the cost would go up, the crashes would be more severe and at higher speeds making things very unsafe, and people would get touchy over racing incidents causing rivalries and drama...none of which is what NEETS is about.

JMO.

[Trav90]

I think we should try to keep as close to a true enduro as possible! Leave Cars Where they Lie! Agree 100 Perecent with Erin! Thats my opinion!

[Trav90]

Another Thing! If we are moving cars we should think about having cautions and realigning the field like they do on Saturday Nights!

[EnduroFromDE]

I wasnt saying that im 100% for moving the cars. I could deal with which ever is going to happen. I was agreeing with Joes statement on how it COULD save from some cars getting destroyed. On the other hand Erin is also correct. Moving cars is not an enduro. You start doing that and adding yellow flags you might as well call them factory stocks and run them on Saturday night. Either way im going to show up each race and try to win. :cheers:

[RGeeProductions]

Another Thing! If we are moving cars we should think about having cautions and realigning the field like they do on Saturday Nights!

NEGATIVE... It's an enduro. Doing this will give drivers positions on the track they did not earn....JMO

[Erin C]

NEGATIVE... It's an enduro. Doing this will give drivers positions on the track they did not earn....JMO

you are exactly right, RGee...I think T-Rav was being sarcastic, though..lol :cheers:

[R.Haring]

maybe one way to keep car counts up in the big car would have been to not run the race when the track is three foot deep of mud and water. after 150 laps that track was still not raceable. 8 of 32 finished, the race should not have been run and everyone would have saved their cars for next time

[3gracing]

In my opinion, If a car stop on the track in a location that the car is not in harms way, leave the car sit until a red flag needs to be thrown. At that point, remove all dead cars from that track. In saying that, I think that anyone who receives assistance from anyone other than a team mate should not be allowed to return to continue the race.

[Rowdy Rules 51]

leave the dead cars were they lie, were an Enduro class! What's next caution flags???? Noooo way Joe, leave em dead were they lie!!!

[richardpetey]

Ron, you hit it "RIGHT ON THE NOSE".................:disgusted
There is nothing wrong with the NEETS rules, but when someone makes a decision to turn an enduro into a Ringling Bros. side show just to "GET IT IN".....................................:mad:
All the talent in the world didn't allow Howie to win the race he deserved.......................................:ro lleyes:
I just hope for NEETS's sake that your boy Rodgers doesn't take over the whole series before it turns into a real "SIDE SHOW".....................:help:
Good possibility that 10 to 12 cars were permanently wrecked in that fiasco, more damage to car counts..................:*-(
I never thought I would say this but I've had it with NEETS"s mud bogs......................:eek:
UNCLE PETEY................:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[CAPTAIN]

I know everyone here knows my opinion. Everyone needs to understand that the costs to build a car from ground up are no fun to endure, don't forget about the time restraints to build a car mid-season, people have jobs, and families to tend to. Then if you add the added pressure to build a car. It just plain sucks. If cars are moved,then we are saving alot of hurt on the drivers. Cars would be able to return to the next race with mininal repair. I know car counts will rise, most of the big diamond drivers would attend, that means bigger payouts to the driver. Ask peety if he enjoyed seeing his car getting run over and smashed into, i have been there, it no fun. I have the means to come back and rebuild, but some drivers do not. Erin, i know you stated that speed would be a factor, but i would rather total out my car from a high speed racing incident, rather then sitting in the infield and watching my car get destoyed,this is my opinion.

[Danger83Ranger]

maybe one way to keep car counts up in the big car would have been to not run the race when the track is three foot deep of mud and water. after 150 laps that track was still not raceable. 8 of 32 finished, the race should not have been run and everyone would have saved their cars for next time


having a rear wheel drive vehicle myself, I have to agree with you. the one red flag I stopped at the top of turn one cause I knew if I started anywhere else, id get stuck. and what happened to me? I went sideways down the track and into the infield when the green came back out. im glad nobody was down there...

[tbirdracer]

i enjoy watching neets racing. it reminds my of old enduros. the days were you raced with alot of cars on the track. but times are tough and money and cheap cars are hard to come by. even if you take the cars out of the way you could still lose your car in wrecks. i know some guys have money and time to fix their cars but most don't. joe and erin run things the way that makes you guys happy. jmo and no matter which way you go someone won't be happy.

[Poppop]

:wave:Where would you draw the line if you decided to move dead cars that were in "the groove"? I can't yet say how I would feel if it were my car that died in the groove but it could mean the end of the season for me. The thing is, I signed up for the races the way they have been run and knew what to expect coming in. JMO

Poppop

[enduroracer131]

I voted yes, but only for cars directly in the groove, anything above or below should stay, and the ones that are in the groove shouldnt be me moved until a red is thrown for either driver safety or another serious incident. I know its part of the sport and history of enduro racing, but as several people have already said, most people who race dont have alot of extra money to fix a destroyed car or replace it, hense the reason I havent raced this year, I couldnt afford a new engine or a new car until just recently, but now I dont have money to put a cage in. It really takes a toll on people who dont have/cant get sponsors or dont have racing garages or dont race other divisions. I would love nothing more then to race every weekend with NEETS and I hope that next year it will be possible for me to do so. Either way I will stay faithful to NEETS no matter what the decision is, because unlike certain local tracks that have a fist fight in the pits every saturday, everyone gets along and helps out.

[DPORCR312]

I'll say this... I understand that its and enduro, but our enduro is becoming a demolition derby. Team RCR would be in pretty good shape for the next race with some minimal and to be expected damage after the Granduro... if this rule had been in affect one race sooner the 132 car wouldnt have suffered the severe damage that it did in the rearend because it was left in the groove to be smashed. All the drivers invest large amounts of time into building these cars. To stand in the infield and watch as cars slam into your car because its an "enduro" is completely rediculous. I really enjoy racing and i would like to do a little more of it than what we are now. If I wanted to run a demolition derby I would be at the pagoda.
RCR enjoys racing with Neets but to be completely honest I'm not so sure that we can continue to bring our cars back from the dead every month! We have talked about maybe attending some other races on the off weeks but have yet to have the opportunity because the cars are usually in a state far from being track worthy. :( :( :(

We should be drinking cold beverages leaning on the fender smiling not straitening frames and dragging trunks out with chains and trucks!!!! RCR is here to have fun, not because we were bored and wanted to start our own extreme body and frame straightning business!!! LONG NECKS DOWN! :cheers::cheers:

[R.Haring]

another thing people need to remember is how much it costs to just start the race. 50 for entry 30 for the pits 30 for gas in the car plus 30 in the truck and if you need a transponder thats another 20. 160 dollars just to go race an enduro. if someone goes out and runs 20 laps and gets wrecked cuz the track was so bad its way to expensive for what we are doing. $8 a lap is nuts. it was not a thrilling race to watch for anyone that says it was.

[dirtmodfan]

:cheers:

I made up my mind pretty early (probably after I spun on the pace lap :mad: and the three times after that :mad: ....sorry tim pauch) that it was not worth destroying my car for that mud fest.

I feel badly for the rest of the guys whose cars got destroyed. It was not my idea of fun and will not be in the future. There was no way that track was going to dry out enough to "race."

It takes way too much time and money to fix these cars. Clear the track and don't race under water. JMO

Also, I found it funny that Kenny Rogers and Fred Rahmer were pointing and laughing their asses off at us from the pit gate :mad:. What a circus it looked like.

Back to the cold ones! :cheers:

[STU]

If the red is going to be thrown, might as well move the dead cars out of the racing line. Lots of people are worried about thier cars, and that's ok, but myself, I worry about someone getting hurt. I don't think anyone would like to see something bad happen to a driver that could of been avoided by simply pushing a car out of the way.

[dirtmodfan]

I agree with Stu....:cheers:

[jimwhite]

both races were a joke the reason there were so many dead cars on the track was the condition of the track. You can not run a car through a foot of water and mud with out something happening to your car . I saw cars with broken ball joints washed out motors flat tires causing the car not to move off the track It is really bad to race under these conditions also not to have any control of the car it went where it wanted to go and you also have a few people who think thay can win the race in the first ten laps by shoving you out of the way doesnot help. i watched a lot of good cars wrecked i have one sitting in the backyard. as the captain said it takes a lot of time and money to build a car and to watch it get wrecked in front of you hurts .As far as leaving cars on the track there would not be a problem if the track was raceable and you had control of your car just my opion Jim white

[mcstockcar]

" you also have a few people who think thay can win the race in the first ten laps by shoving you out of the way doesnot help."
AMEN TO THAT COMMENT! At least some one out there sees this! Thats what led to my bent frame. As for the thread.....it dont matter to me. Its an enduro. YOU SHOULD BE GIVEN AN OPTION TO HAVE YOUR CAR REMOVED FROM THE TRACK. Hows this idea?. Id want mine moved to keep it from getting totalled.Unless its caught up on a gaurd rail or something that requires excessive time to remove it from a certain place.

[Philter39]

Well its time for my 39 cents worth

From what I have seen and what I experienced in the last 15 or so laps.
of the "Muddy pups" In those 15 laps it became so difficult to actually see. Even though I had a towel to use as a face shield wiper. That I can not understand how
the big cars had any chance of reasonable vision for 150 laps. I can understand us finishing our race. I had to leave and I did not think that the track would have any chance of being raceable and calling the big car race off would have been the correct call. If we keep getting these poor racing conditions the car counts will continue to drop.

congratulations to Rob Pyle you were right you beat me but will you beat me again, and to Chris for your wins last Sunday.

phil

[CJfilms]

So, I know everyone thinks I am leaning towards moving the cars being that I started a thread circulating around the idea.... :-|

I want....more so I NEED....to know everyone's opinion. I appreciate that the few people who always speak up are speaking up once again, but it's the people who we never hear from who I want to hear....

My idea....although it does not mean it will happen...

I would like to see the cars stay...not moved because they are disabled OR in the groove. BUT...if a red comes out, then we will correct the situation (put out the fire, remove the driver, flip the car back over, etc...) AND clear the racing groove. The groove that will be cleared can be either high...low...or in the center of the track. Either way, enough space for at least a three wide pass. Move the dead cars out of the groove, BUT NOT OFF THE TRACK! If a driver loses control that badly and slides high or low enough to hit the wall (infield wall or boiler plate), a dead car being there isn't going to make that impact any worse...

IT IS AN ENDURO....there will always be "DEAD CARS"...that is the point of enduro race, as Erin said it...to ENDURE.

My mindset here is to see car counts either increase or stabilize. The decision here is more than just move dead cars or not....it's a F$#%@ economic question...does it become so costly for drivers to keep fixing their cars/buy new and build fresh that it is easier for them to stop racing? ....sadly enough, right now....yes.

The #1 problem is this....
Drivers are spending too much money on their cars!!!

I still have people call me between races and tell me how they spend $200 + on tires and more on parts... I have people tell me how much money they put INTO the motor to make it legal....

IT IS AN ENDURO....buy junk yard parks and tires.....go cheap! If you are spending hundreds of dollars between races on custom racing parts and tires and such, HOW MANY TIRES ARE YOU GOING THROUGH???? I have people saying that they only buy new tires and then complain when the get three flats about how much money they now have to spend....if you were using cheap equipment, it would be cheap to repair....instead....you are turning your car into a full blown race car...a factory stock! At the end of this season.....at the rules meeting....we will discuss this in detail.

All that aside....I do understand the cost of safety equipment....that is acceptable and limitless! I'm merely taking about a driver who spends $300 on tires, $200 on body parts, $250 on oil and other performance parts, etc...then they call me an complain "I spend $1,000 every race just to get to the track, the other drivers must be cheating". No, they are not cheating... Yes, you are spending way too much... No, I'm not going to tech inspect them any harder just because you say so... NO, just because I know all that information about you now am I going to let you slide through tech....sorry, but it has to be fair and equal across the board.

As for track conditions....it is not simply a "let's get it in" call that we made...the storm was a passing storm....the radar showed nothing else in the forecast....it was a judgment call that WE HAD TO MAKE....it was the wrong call....I understand that now. I will be more patient in my decision making in the future and we will wait it out to see what mother nature will do before making a call....

The other side of this argument...WHICH NO ONE EVER TALKS ABOUT....is the fans.... Fans don't like to sit in the stands for an hour or so to see IF the track will dry out....they will leave. I'm not putting fan counts before drivers here, but truth be told, we have a number of drivers this season who were spectators last year......new blood isn't going to rain into the series from the sky....if we can't maintain fans, and no one is coming to watch the races....we will start losing sponsors....support....and finally the speedway.

From a fan standpoint....Travis Schwenk, Al Spotts...sorry to point you guys out here, but....what went through your minds this past race while waiting for us to make the call? What is going through your minds if we have a 45 minute rain delay between races and then start lining cars up?

Lastly...

JMO....rememebr...you're posting on a public forum...you don't have to tell us it's your opinion...we know that already! ;) :angel: .....just my opinion! LOL!!! :lol:

[Danger83Ranger]

personally, I believe something has to change. fan counts are much lower than last year, even with the speedstrs being in the show. car counts seem to be about the same. it would be nice to know what ALL of the fans and non fans have to say and what they would like to be done in order to bring in more people.

[jimwhite]

joe all your points are good points but you are in a no win decision any way you go it it would not change the racing. i hope i am wrong now about the cars i have been around racing all my life and with neets since it started in 2002 i have tryed to race as much as i can but these are not enduro cars any more you have street stocks any mini stocks now .to run a stock car with all the safty items you would be 90 laps down in a 100 lap race . the cost to race is up there with hard times but people do it because thay love it. about the parts issue as hard as that track is on parts its hard to use used parts with out a part braking i wish you luck with this issue and others you have .as of this time the car i have will not be fixed this year so i will be done for the rest of the year and miss the mutha for the first time since its started joe if you like to talk about this call me or e mail me jim white 29x

[rk1714]

We decided with weather conditions and track prep ( lack of ) we would not come to race. After what I heard and saw I`m glad we didn`t!!! As for moving cars from the track , I`m all for taking them off the track, except for as mentioned , if it took too much time.We will be at the next race, weather permitting.

[racinrob43]

As a fan of enduros and as I driver I can see both sides. I don't think there is any question that driver safety should be the highest priority. When the track conditions are as such that more effort is required to maintain car control than to race your competitors every effort should be made to give as much clear track as possible.

And following that train of thought, when the track is good and the cars are moving faster, slamming a car that is stopped is a collision much greater than most impacts with the guard rail or wall. It is not often that you hit the wall head on.

What is the "racing groove" in an enduro? I'd saying anything but up against the outside wall in the turns. I know the entire straightaway from top to bottom gets used all race long.

Now, on the flip side, how many drivers have had the opportunity to get off the track and did not do so? It's not very often that you come to a quick stop. You usually can coast out of harm's way.

Cost of cars: Those that have money will spend it and those that don't will complain about being beat by those that do. Not even "claiming" rules keep this from happening. That is racing and always will be. Even if you are buying "stock replacement" parts, new parts generally out-last used parts. If the game is to endure, then you need parts that last.

I honestly do not think any change will bring back the car counts to what they were, other than the economy. Face it, the economy sucks, the low income people are hit the hardest, and the enduro racers are low income. I haven't raced NEETS since I ran my truck at Mountain and quickly learned that the posted rules on the website are not always what is enforced at the track. But, with my daughter giving up her first attempt at racing, I now have a car with nothing to do but go enduro racing! I hope to see you in September.

[EnduroFromDE]

Jim, I knew u been around NEETs and racing in general a long time but I would have to disagree. Yes some cars out there, mainly in the big car class do seem a lil over kill to be an enduro car. as far as the 4 cyl, there are even some cars u look at and it looks as if they are weekly sat or fri night cars. However last race I felt that I had one of, if not THE fastest car out there in the 4 cyl class. This was being told to me by other drivers, including from Rob himself after the race. My car has no aftermarket, upgraded, performance, mad-for-racing, or anything other then OEM parts, which I get from the junk yard. I spent $400 for the car, another close to $600 for safety items, including a new suit, helmet, and racing seat for this year, that I can now switch to any car I want form now on. as far as car parts, i might of spent total $200 in the past 2 years for parts, and thats including 2 steering knuckles, and 3 axels. Im lucky enough to work at a car dealership so I have access to used tires any day of the week, I just have to sort through until I find the size I use. Even so, If u have to buy tires, alot of places, including junk yards, sells used tires. some places will even give u tires so they dont have to spend money on desposel. So Joe is right, I have a very competive car and Im spending no more then $20-30 on the car a month to go racing, of course thats minus gas, entry fee and pit passes...But people last year was complaing becuase they spent $X,000 on the body of the car including numbers n decals. thats just stupid to spend all that and complain when it gets muddy or scratched. I spent $20 for spray paint.

[rustyboltz6]

"To remove or not to remove the dead cars?" That is the question. There have been many valid points discussed on both sides of this issue so far and probably many more that have not, but like most things today, they are not like they used to be and ultimately many factors need to be considered in making a final decision on this matter. Joe, I will support whatever decision you make, but I think maybe you should try something different for the next race to see how it goes? You could always go back to the way it was if it takes too long or becomes a hassle. I'd like to see the cars moved, if not off the track at least to the inside groove. I also believe that most of the cars that end up "dead" on the track could have probably been either driven to the infield or at least could have coasted to the low side of the track before they became a "dead car". It isn't hard to tell if you are having trouble with your car. Don't keep driving it!! Nobody ever wants to pull off the track, but if you continue to drive a car that is running hot or drive on a flat tire for more than a lap or two, and don't take it to the pits to fix the problem, the result will probably be another "DEAD CAR" on the track that doesn't need to be there!! At least you could save it for the next race instead of destroying it. I do have to say though, that since I started racing @ G.V. last year, I've seen alot of improvement in some of the drivers out there and that is definitely a good thing.

As far as the speeds go, I believe that with the vacuum rule and the tire width rule, the cars will not go any faster than they are going now. At higher speeds I would much rather tangle with a car that I am racing against, and have some control of the situation, instead of tangling with a "dead car" that I do not.

The other thing I think some guys need to remember is that these enduro races are loooooonnnggg!!! 100 or 150 laps!! Not 15 or 20! Especially in the beginning, sometimes you need to go slow in order to go faster later. Patience and car maintenance will let you see the checkered flag from the seat of your car at the end of the race insted of from the infield. Car maintenance means looking at and going over everything on the car prior to the day of the race. I don't like things falling off my car during the race and I'm sure most would agree that they don't either. Things wear out and come loose, you got to check everything!!

Well, that's my two cents. Joe I hope you can come up with something to make most people happy because you can't please them all. I hope to see everybody in September. Tighten those nuts and bolts and get those tear-offs ready!!!:cool:

[richardpetey]

The #1 problem is the promoter should start concentrating on a giving the enduro racers a consistent racing surface every race..............................:rolleyes:
As far as spending too much money on our enduro cars, just remember, you made/changed the rules, we are building our cars to your specs....................................:confused :
We, as racers, are just taking advantage of what you give us......................;)
This leaving the "dead cars on the track" question would not even be an issue
if you weren't trying to suck another 10 to 20 cars from big diamond...................:disgusted
UNCLE PETEY..................:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[rustyboltz6]

Petey, where's the love?? Sounds like you don't want us there? I think the SKOOKS make it exciting down there!! We like to race just as much as you do. Doesn't really matter where, just so we can race. I'd be racing @ Big D too, but I get very little, very little, sponsorship money. So I picked one track and it happened to be Grandview this year. I like the track and the program. Makes for good racing, except for those damn mud bogs. Hang in there, you'll figure out this dirt thing. Remember asphalt is for getting to the track!!!

[AK17]

I can respect all the opinions about the good old days with the high car counts, muddy tracks and junk cars in a rolling demo derby but WHO CARES?! Enduro racing, just like any other racing or business, you have to adapt to keep your customers (drivers and fans) happy or the business will fail. Move dead cars from the track and keep them coming back to race another day, I think it's that simple. Like was said earlier, try making the change and if it does not work out, go back to the way it was.
And I know it is not the point of this thread but I have to agree with Peety. The racing surface, by far, has claimed more cars then the dead-car issue.
Joe/Erin, I will be with you either way...it's all about car counts.

[richardpetey]

Sorry Shawn, didn't mean to make it sound like I don't want you guys running with NEETS...........................:rolleyes:
I love all you guys, I'm just a little peeved about the direction the series is heading......................;)
Your team is doing great at grandview and I wish you continued success, I'm glad somebody is making headway with these bad track conditions..................:applause:
UNCLE PETEY....................:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[STU]

30 to 40 cars per division is not all that bad. I still say move the deads out, and we will have a better chance that 30 to 40 cars will make it to the next one and maybe a few more.

As far as "stock" goes, I stopped racing enduros because of what guys were doing to thier cars at Mountain. I think I was the last one out there in a truely stock car, and it showed. I had NO chance racing with those guys and the "stock" cars they have. The fun was no longer there so I gave it up.
At least the dirt/mud at Grandview makeS it more equal out there.

Any and all forms of racing are will have "HAVE and HAVE NOTS" when it comes to $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
JMO

[Philter39]

Well said Shawn. I had lost my right front wheel and rotor in the fall of 08 at the View coming out of turn 4. And I mashed the throttle and got the old Pontiac off the track. She is still making laps. If I would have stopped by the start finish line that car would be some Chinese trinkets by now. I like the dead cars on the track. But I feel it is time for a change. Years ago Williams Grove would just push the cars high or low by the guard rail with a tow truck.Most of those cars lived to see another race. Yeah the track conditions being scheisse(German)and have been less than desirable more often than not this year. I can race in those conditions but others can not.And also it is somewhat less fun when you have to fight the track conditions.I do notice that some of the same drivers keep finishing in the top positions. Why is that? For those that do not ask yourself that question.

See you guys at BD on Sunday. Endure on Vote the bums out this fall phil
Thats the Obums

[CJfilms]

Shawn...I second that!

Very well thought out and clear!

As the times change, we all have to.... It's not about siphoning cars from BD, it's about preserving the cars that we have. I'm trying to make some leeway on the official's end of things to help keep the cars that are in tact....in tact! With or without a groomed racing surface, there will always be dead cars, incidents, wrecks, flips, etc.... What I am only "trying" to do is get a feel for everyone's opinion regarding moving dead cars.

I've said it before, I will say it again...I would prefer nothing changes.... However, I am not behind the wheel...I'm not the one cleaning and fixing your car...I'm not the one who is paying for a new car to be built because of an incident or something that could have been avoided due to economic times.

Petey, as far as the rules go....you were there at the meeting....EVERYONE THERE HELPED VOTE THEM IN. The only rules WE handed down, making them mandatory, were safety rules...(i.e. roll cages) Every other rule that was put in place this season was voted in at the rules meeting...we didn't make them up ourselves....please don't blame us for the ideas we listened to....we will have another rules meeting this season and, as usual, all are welcome...

Just a reminder....since I am taking a lot of heat off the forums for this topic....we are just "collecting opinions". Nothing is being changed here....

[Danger83Ranger]

dead cars wouldnt be a problem if those having issues would realize that there better off getting out of the groove and into the infield or pits before they cause a problem. Also those with the heavy bumpers and bricks on the gas pedals who like to drive through everyone, would just be patient. you all know who you are! :lol::lol::lol:

[mcstockcar]

"change" can be good! We should try this removal of cars for 1 or 2 races and see how it goes! Can you spare some change???:lol:

[richardpetey]

Joe, you've got a bad memory..........................:rolleyes:
Many of the rules we discussed and agreed upon during the meeting got changed as soon as you put them in print on the NEETS site...................:confused:
If, in your opinion, we are running expensive enduros, try and get everybody to go back to BONESTOCK...................:disgusted
Getting back to the question at hand, "dead cars", whatever you decide try and return NEETS to a racing series instead of a mud wrestling contest...............:help:
UNCLE PETEY..................:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[miller78]

bonestock? hmm like was said before the guys the have money spend it how do we know the guys in the big car class with ant running like a 355 or a 358 fully put togather bottom end etc all the vac test checks is cam right? face it the guys with more money and are good at playing the gray area its like nascar the cream will rise at the top im not downing those guys they just set the bar so high for guys like me who work a 10 bucks an hr job and live on uncle sams return check to keep my race car going and as far as dead cars go i say pull them its a pain and a loss when u have to regroup ones the season starts

[Danger83Ranger]

haha, aaron, you know damn well some of those guys are putting a little work into there motors. ive been around racing long enough to tell by the sound of the car. there are definitely some strokers out there. Im pretty sure that one car ive seen on a weekly basis is cammed. the big cars have turned into a "factory stock" class haha. two options, tech the hell out of everyone, or just run with it.

[Philter39]

Joe

just want be sure that it will not be an obama change. which is a change that No one wants.[ yes small o in obama]

phil

[outlaw13]

When we (Phil, Pat, Mike myself & others) ran @ the Grove we started with 70+ cars, the track is only 5 cars wide and on several occasions I was out of tear-offs (20) by lap 20 of a 200 lap race. Most of the drivers there were pretty patient (there were a few who weren't and Butch did not stand for it = 5 laps in the pits). You Obeyed the Rules, Raced Clean or you GOT PARKED, Period. Butch"s Rules Enforcement (from engine parts to speeding in the pits) made that race the Premiere Event of Enduro Racing!

As for the cars in the groove, Butch "Red" flagged the race, the wrecker or 4x4 pusher, pushed your car to the inside rail, most of the time, down toward the middle of the straight (or in the pit if you were close to the entrance)and the driver got out so it was quick and out of the way and racing resumed very quickly. On a few occasions 1or2 of my other cars were shoved to the wall and survived without incident.

Now for tires, running "Used" (worn, hard, heat cycled tires without the max tread) in the dirt or worse yet in the mud just does NOT work very well. This I learned from a few of your front running drivers when I first started as an owner in '99 @ Bridgeport (our first race there was Embarrassing!). 3 races on a set of tires (15-20 lap races) makes a Huge Difference. Ask them guys, they will tell you because they used to be (I'm they still are) all about racing hard and clean with another competitive driver. It is More Fun that way!

Just some observations.
Rules Enforcement (or the lack of or change it to fit that day or team) was the reason I left NEETS years ago. I'm Glad to see it is Different Now and Wish I could be back Supporting It Again.
Jim

[EnduroFromDE]

Jim, not to argue ur points, but Grandview n Bridgeport services are alot different. I went through close to 3 races last year with the same tire on the r/f of my car at GV. I still have tread on it, its being used as a rear tire now. All my tires are tires that are being thrown away at the dealership I work at. I go picking through everyonce in awhile to find the size im running. They are not brand new, they are used tires anywhere from 1000 to 5000 miles on them. BP 5/8 miles track can chew up some tires. I used to run 4 cyl there and I went a half a year on the same tires on the 1/4 mile track. I took those same tires on the 5/8 miles and they needed replacing after one night of racing. (18 laps). I like the idea of how they did it back then too. But when NEETS ran at Mountain there was a steady 70-100 cars in both division every race for about 2 years. Cars where not moved. I know that mountain is paved and GV is dirt but there were still times when a car will be sitting there for 85 laps and here comes a car and slams into it. After about 50 laps a GV(normally) that track seems like its paved...alittle bumpy but u can dig into the turns and drive it like its asphalt. I kinda liked having a race to where it was about car control more then speed. The last 20 laps of that race I littlerycouldnt see a thing. I ran out of tearoffs and i didnt come prepared with a rag. I had to flip my visor up cuz my gloves where smearing the mud, not wiping it. My glasses then begain to get muddy but they were wiping off but getting fogged up on the inside where i couldnt reach the,. So i was driving with my head back looking below my glasses but over the bottom of my helmet. I was eating so much mud, and i was getting hit in the eye with water n mud. I was still laughing and having fun in the car, still sliding around cars barly able to see. Itll get boring if every race was the same. Go out, race for XXX amount of laps and come back in. Its enduro, you have to Enduro the different elements like everyone else. Weather thats dead cars, rain, or watever.

[McLovein]

The racing around dead cars can be fun but anyone that has had a car wrecked by a dead car on the track or has had there car wrecked by sitting on the track car see the problem.You need to ask your self if my car gets wrecked in the race from hitting a dead car like the #75 car did in the v8's can I fix it in time for the next race and do I have the money to fix it. Try to find a car for 50 to 100 dollars any more that would make it 50 laps let alone 100 or 150 it's not gonna happen. If you want to still be enduro than make the ruels enduro. Cars on the track, 200 laps or 2hrs. witch ever comes first tires with 2-3 thousands on them no K&N filters no race springs all stock nothing else. NEETS is half enduro and half stock car racing people need to make up there minds what and how it's run. Then if they decided that it is a true enduro no one can ***** because you sined up for it.

[CJfilms]

Then if they decided that it is a true enduro no one can ***** because you signed up for it.

Good point.... Know what you are getting into......NEETS is enduro racing...

Also....love the name!!!

[racerroy]

I don't think the dead cars have been all that bad so far, but the track is definatly an issue "it sucks" ! My vote is pull the cars!

[outlaw13]

I don't understand what services means.
I never ran front drive cars, but like I said, used, especially performance tires, don't work as well as new/near new, soft M/S tires with a tread that evacuates easily and don't smooth over. That is why snow & truck tires were always outlawed. Good tires will "drive" circles through the mud/dirt instead of "doing" circles in it.

If your going to throw a red to get a driver out of a car that is in a dangerous spot, then that car is also a danger to other drivers still on the track. It's an enduro, but like everyone is saying, cars are harder to find and the costs are going through the roof. Cars being wrecked unnesessarily and drivers having to sit out the rest of the season because of $$$, that isn't good for the Series either. It's an Officials call that will help drivers Enjoy the race even more.

I've been through the mud being everywhere and not being able to see (into turn 3 @ the Grove Wide Open) and in the Pouring Rain (NEETS Tioga)in a Dirt car on asphalt and No Windshield. Talk about foggy glasses and shield. It's a challenge but you learn how to overcome it for the next race.

Steve, I raced Mountain in the original series and was one of the group that talked the promoter(of the time) to go to "stock" cars which resulted in the "Junk Car Series". Remember the track being watered down with Fabric Softener in the water, "..to make it more interesting...".

K&N Filter in the original filter box is ok, but a 350 in a metric car is not.
200 laps or 2 hours is awesome.

[MANIAC]

look leave the dead cars where they die. the fans love watching the wrecks,it makes it more challenging and thats going to make the race that much longer if they move them. as for fixing your car for the next race it is what it is. we have on average a month to fix them. i would even like to see two or three dead cars placed on the track before we take the green. just like flumingtion use to do. its not suppose to be a easy race. as for the last race. yes the mud sucked but that was the hole challenge.it sucked that Howie hit that parked car.hes my team mate and i feel i had a little something to do with that i blocked up the frontstrech because my car couldn't turn left all the way and i didn't want to get stuck in the mud at the bottom. there are so many things that can go wrong. the one who wins the race had the best luck that day. SO KEEP IT INTERESTING...

[EnduroFromDE]

I ment surfaces...sorry...what im saying is you can compare track to track as far as tire wear...I never EVER ran new tires at Grandview and hardly have a problem with grip...

[MANIAC]

if u want your car moved out of the grove how much is it worth to u. use the money u make off it to pay farther back or draw a number and who ever started in that spot gets there entry paid for the next race.;) just giving some ideas . i would leave my car where it dies. its wrong to move them. u don't go to one of these races to see cars go 100 to 150 laps with out a good wreck.;) that would be boring.:disgusted

[outlaw13]

To Enduro Drivers, a 200 lap "Enduro" is like driving in the Daytona 500. They don't want to destroy their cars, they want to Endure a 100 or 200 lap race and be the Winner. That is challenging enough. It is an incredible feeling to run door handle to door handle with more than 10 cars, every single lap, for the win or to at least finish Every Lap.

If you look at the history of these races, they didn't move cars mostly because there were Too Many Cars and there was not enough time. Flemmington was starting 200 cars (a friend drove in them) and I watched, just before it closed, at least 125 cars. I also watched some Violent Wrecks there with cars left in the groove. JFK in Phila. also. Since there aren't that many cars and it could be a judgement call on the officials to quickly push a car out of the groove (not on a tow truck) and resume, it should be considered.

It doesn't sound like everyone wants the track completely cleared, but they want to watch a safe endurance "race", not good cars/drivers wadded up on a dead "obstacle" in the middle of the track.
Leave that to the figure 8s and the demos.

[MANIAC]

To Enduro Drivers, a 200 lap "Enduro" is like driving in the Daytona 500. They don't want to destroy their cars, they want to Endure a 100 or 200 lap race and be the Winner. That is challenging enough. It is an incredible feeling to run door handle to door handle with more than 10 cars, every single lap, for the win or to at least finish Every Lap.

If you look at the history of these races, they didn't move cars mostly because there were Too Many Cars and there was not enough time. Flemmington was starting 200 cars (a friend drove in them) and I watched, just before it closed, at least 125 cars. I also watched some Violent Wrecks there with cars left in the groove. JFK in Phila. also. Since there aren't that many cars and it could be a judgement call on the officials to quickly push a car out of the groove (not on a tow truck) and resume, it should be considered.

It doesn't sound like everyone wants the track completely cleared, but they want to watch a safe endurance "race", not good cars/drivers wadded up on a dead "obstacle" in the middle of the track.
Leave that to the figure 8s and the demos.

ITS NOT DAYTONA WE DON'T PASS DEAD CARS AT 200+ IF YOU ARE SCARED OF IT MAYBE IT S NOT THE SPORT FOR U.. DEMOS-FIG-8-ENDURO- WHATS YOUR POINT. I'm not there to wreck my car. WHAT HAPPENS OUT THERE "IT IS WHAT IT IS" I DO IT BECAUSE ITS FUN AND I LOVE THE SPORT... THE ONLY TIME A CAR NEEDS TO BE MOVED IF IT LEAKING GAS OR THE TRACK IS TOTALLY BLOCKED AND I MEAN TOTALLY BLOCKED. I'M NOT TRYING TO PICK ON U SO DON'T GET ME WRONG JUST GIVE U A BIGGER TAKE ON WHAT A ENDURO IS.

[mcstockcar]

If you chose to have your car removed from the track, it should be allowed. Whos gonna fix your dead car when it gets hit by another racer?....surely not anyone else but you." Live to race another day"
As for the 350 in a metric GM....y not? Its a small block. Its GM. Some of those 305s run up there with those 350s:confused:
Im running a 400 and those 350s walk by me like im standing still.:confused:

[mcstockcar]

Quote-"the fans love watching the wrecks"
I dont see the fans coming over to fix those wrecked cars for the next race.
Parts and money dont grow on trees!:disgusted

[MANIAC]

If you chose to have your car removed from the track, it should be allowed. Whos gonna fix your dead car when it gets hit by another racer?....surely not anyone else but you." Live to race another day"
As for the 350 in a metric GM....y not? Its a small block. Its GM. Some of those 305s run up there with those 350s:confused:
Im running a 400 and those 350s walk by me like im standing still.:confused:

u mean all the money you spent on that car its not fast. SHOCKER it was fast in 09 when it ran a race or two. you whine more than the guy you bought it from. thats it joe give us back our rear view mirror i got a lot pacifiers to hand out need a place to hang them all. it wont get wrecked if u leave it on the trailer. as for your motor you need to work on that or do u want all of us to slow down and weight for u to catch up?

[mcstockcar]

You sure do like to stir the pot dont you??
You"ll make a lot of enemys quick with talk like that!
You some how know HOW much I spent on my car...thats facinating. You should be a fortune teller. If I spent a ton of money on my car or motor I might be running up front.

[Poppop]

:lol:Jack, you should be spending your time and money going to school to learn how to dodge the out of control cars. Seems like you've been the target more times than the bullet.:wave:

[mcstockcar]

Yeah rite! Well thats about to end. Ive only gone home about 2x and parked the (Monte) and didnt have to touch it.:(