Figure 8's

[Ka$h25]

There's a lot of talk about scrapping the division lately much like there was with the Late Models in recent years. The Late Models were fortunate to have a few drivers who really cared and really fought for their survival and it worked out. I don't think the same can be predicted for the Figure-8's. SAFER is at it's weakest, there are only a handful of regular members. The car count is bad. And now the racing has taken a turn for the worse. After opening night I said they may have only been 8 cars, but it was 8 good cars and they put on a hell of a race. I'd rather watch 8 cars run well than 20 cars have a crash fest.

Anyway, I'm curious to hear what outsiders think of the division which is why I posted this in the General Forum.

[MSK27]

The F8's are fun to watch providing thrills at every turn but the fights after the race are a problem.I had guests at the track Sat. night and the first question from them was "Is it like this every night?"

[Teds Race Tours]

1st off, let me start with that I've been a BIG FAN of the division for over 40 years, and I NEVER want to see Long Island Racing without a Fig 8 division. I completely disagree with you about opening night. I thought it was one of the worst races in the history of the sport (from a pure racing stand point). If Tommy didn't make that late pass for the win, i'm sure i would have characterized it as the worst Fig 8 race ever. 8 Cars running single file isn't really a race thats fun to watch.

While a 20 car crash fest wouldnt be a thing of beauty either, at least it would have some potential fig 8 type drama meeting at the x drama, which is a big part of the division for me.

A few Years ago, when the mods were very low in car count(as low as 12 or 13 if i remember correctly), they let some sk's run with them to get the numbers up. While i wasn't happy about it, it did help with the Mod numbers today), and the division is seemingly strong again. :)

I would like to see some grand enduro or even regular enduro cars added to the fig 8 race. Kinda 2 races in one sorta like the 24 hours of Daytona where they run multiple divisions on the track at the same time. It would create some drama at the X, and more than likely, some traffic situtations the division hasn't seen in years. If ya have 10 true figure 8 cars, and 6-10 other cars, it would sure look nice seeing a 20 car field again. And 16-20 cars would make it very interesting to both the weekly fan, but especially the casual once or twice a year fan. Not a perfect solution, but to me at least, it gives the division a chance.

[deathwishracin1]

I'm hit and miss on the grands or 8 cyls running with the fig 8s. On one hand it would get better fields and make for more interesting racing, but on the other hand I think it would be a safety issue, especially for the 8 cyls. I think the chance of a lowered, full cage figure 8 car hitting a pretty stock, 6-point max cage car in the X wouldn't be a good thing.

I know towards the end of last season and during the beginning of the offseason there was a decent push to run the stock 8 cyls on the figure 8 course, but for some reason it was left off the schedule. I still think cost is part of the problem that is killing the division. I don't know how much it costs to build and run a figure 8 car, but I know it isn't cheap. My guess is that it would be close to a charger car. I wouldn't be surprised if most people look at the cost to run and decide it's more logical to run an equivalent cost division cuz there is less chance of totalling your car. I've seen some pretty bad hits at the X over the years, some cars take weeks or months to return.

While changing rules to lower costs would possibly help improve car counts, I also see the problem that would cause for the guys already running cars at the present time that would have to either spend a bit to meet new rules if not have to build a completely new car.

I agree about the racing tho, there does seem to be either no action or an awful lot of cautions, especially for a division with such a low car count. Between the caution plagued races and the low car counts taking away from the interest of the division (8-11 cars won't have too many close calls at the X, one of the main features of the division IMO), it doesn't surprise me that there is talk of cutting races or dropping the division. It's not something I would like to see, but it isn't a far off thought if you think about it.

[The Bullfather]

Charger car? No more like Late Model! They ran with them last year when the infield was floor to start the season!

[deathwishracin1]

I didn't remember which division they ran with, I was too caught up in our little demo world lol. That just helps my theory out tho, they aren't cheap cars to build and run, and it's a lot of money being risked at the X every lap.

[Ka$h25]

You have a great point Ted. I've said for some time now that one of he issues with this division is that the cars have become too sophisticated and in turn too expensive. I hate to say it because there are a lot of good car owners in that division who have put a lot of money into their machinery, but I wouldn't mind seeing the division rules overhauled to make these cars a bit cheaper.

The fact is that guys like Joey biondolillo, George brown, Roger maynor, Ralph Tasso etc pushed these cars to what they are today and that was great at the time but with he economy he way it is that can't be maintained.

[The Bullfather]

All started when they went from 6's to 8's! Money for motor packages and then chassis programs just raised the bar too high and knocked a lot of guys out. I know some of them wanted to advance the division and some thought the 6's were harder to come by, but there are plenty left. You can't expect to go back to smaller motor because it will just cost the guys who have the big motors more to buy different equipment!

[fisherman]

All started when they went from 6's to 8's! Money for motor packages and then chassis programs just raised the bar too high and knocked a lot of guys out. I know some of them wanted to advance the division and some thought the 6's were harder to come by, but there are plenty left. You can't expect to go back to smaller motor because it will just cost the guys who have the big motors more to buy different equipment!

hey pete this is were i agree with you 100% :applause::applause:

[deathwishracin1]

They can still run the 6 cylinders and get to be 300 pounds lighter if they do.

[MSK27]

The difference of the price of the motors isn't that big.The 6 cylinders were already getting pretty exotic when they switched to 8 cylinders.The problem is that you can't build one of these cars from a street car.You have to build the car from the ground up!Fabricated bodies,fancy rear ends,triple disc clutches and more.These things by themselves are not a problem but if you add them all up it becomes a very expencive class.If they changed the rules so that you could run a stock type car with a good roll cage similar to an enduro car but safer I bet you would have a bunch of them.

[The Bullfather]

Your right, my bad, they did run with the chargers. Wasn't there a debate on which class they would run with the week before opening night? Some felt they were to strong for the chargers and some thought they were out powered in the late models...

Back on track, hate to see the division fold this season.

[Ka$h25]

All started when they went from 6's to 8's! Money for motor packages and then chassis programs just raised the bar too high and knocked a lot of guys out. I know some of them wanted to advance the division and some thought the 6's were harder to come by, but there are plenty left. You can't expect to go back to smaller motor because it will just cost the guys who have the big motors more to buy different equipment!

If they made a stock car figure 8 division similar to the grand enduros I have no doubt that by next season it would have more cars than our current figure 8 division.

[deathwishracin1]

If they made a stock car figure 8 division similar to the grand enduros I have no doubt that by next season it would have more cars than our current figure 8 division.

And even more cars if we don't use the spec engines and hoosiers of the grands. At the end of last season we had 15-20 guys from the stock 8 cylinders that were willing to run their stock 8 cylinder cars on the 8, and that was just the drivers that were asked. I'm sure more would run if given the opportunity.

[WEEZER]

A stock 8 cyl fig 8 division sounds too good to be true. When Riverhead fig 8's get going with 15 plus cars, there is nothing more enjoyable to watch. With last saturday's fiasco, it seems the drivers are killing the division themselves, unfortunately.

Why can't the track owners see how divisions continue to out price themselves, the Grands were suppose to be a step up from stock 8's and look at these cars today! One guy cuts his stock springs for a lower ride height, next thing you know 10 other cars do too! Can't blame anybody for keeping up with the jones's but allowing it to happen increases the expense.
I don't know what the answer is but hopefully the fig 8's stay.

[Ka$h25]

And even more cars if we don't use the spec engines and hoosiers of the grands. At the end of last season we had 15-20 guys from the stock 8 cylinders that were willing to run their stock 8 cylinder cars on the 8, and that was just the drivers that were asked. I'm sure more would run if given the opportunity.

I think it would be interesting to say the least. And it's not like the promoters wouldn't be open to the idea. They've had the "Smash-to-pass" figure-8 races which were essentially 8-cyl stock cars.

[RickFigure8]

The 6cyl engines were getting up in cost close to what building a V8 would be and 6cyl parts were getting harder and harder to find. I knew of a few 6 grand plus 6cyl's and running them more than 2 seasons without refreshing them was pushing your luck while the V8's really wear well with the shorter cranks. The cars don't have to be that exotic and some out there aren't and they still run competitive. No multidiscs with the V8, stock clutch. We ran a Pep Boys clutch in the 8,9 for 3 years with no problems. Rear end is a stock 9" Ford housing with the disc brake caliper brackets welded on. To build a figure8 car Vs a Charger car it would probably cost a little more due to hubs, rotors, tie rod ends and tubes for the 3 point rear, but it wouldn't be that much. I haven't looked at the list of who is missing from our division this year or last, but I'd be willing to bet if they had a Charger or Late Model instead of a Figure8 car they would still not be there. A couple drivers for medical reasons have not been racing, and others have moved away. It's always been hard to get drivers in to our division because of the X. If they opened up the Charger division to allow us to run the Figure8 cars with them I bet most would, except for the payoff. If they opened up the Figure8 division to Charger cars I'd be surprised if 2 or 3 tried it. It's just hard to get people to try the division. I hear Justin really enjoyed it and I hope he gets to speak to others who might be interested in trying it. I think there's still hope that we'll get the 00 back out and possibly the 41. As far as what happened on and off the track after the race it should be stopped. So often peoples worst enemy are themselves.

[btgoss]

It is sad to hear about all of these troubles with the Figure 8's. They are part of our unique racing history on Long Island and to lose them would be very bad.

I had always thought, and perhaps someone here could tell me for certain, but I had thought the F8's had the second highest purse at the track. Is this still the case?

The problem of the support divisions having less cars then your headliner is a major problem. One that the track has not addressed, and I am not sure they have the proper motivation.

If they drop the F8's they can bring in the SK's or give the Legends those dates. It doesn't matter who they get, they just need more then 8-11 cars. Being a back gate promoted track it appears the number of cars at the track is more important. It's all about the money.

I would love to see SAFER create a new set of rules, that would allow the old cars to gracefully go into the pasture (and it might be time to force some of those cars into that pasture) while fostering a safe, cost effective car that can return the division to it's old glory.

Why not use IMCA style chassis, using those crazy SpeedDrome type bodies, but with crate motors? (Keeping everything else as close to IMCA type "stock" as possible) That should be a fairly lost cost, real race car. Just a thought.

[SuperShafts]

Aren't the F-8's down to like 10 laps now. . . .

That might be part of the problem why some of the others aren't coming back.

I had offered to drive someones car that had a injury

[deathwishracin1]

They are at 15 laps, from what I remember they cut the laps due to cautions. I might be wrong tho. I agree it is sad to see the current state of the division. Figure 8's always used to be one of my favorite divisions growing up. I miss the days of full fields and Joe Biondolillo and George Brown fighting for the win.

[killa54]

I pushed this issue time & time again & got no support at the meetings.. it was almost a done deal anyway but got scratched last minute.. we were goin 4 a replacement of the 2nd 8 cyl enduro on sundays 2 spice up the day a lil, with support I think it would definitly make the schedule..

[RickFigure8]

For many years our feature was 15 laps. When we stopped running heats the feature was changed to 20 laps. It was changed back to 15 laps as it was thought it would help create a number of different winners as many of the 20 laps races the leader on lap 15 was not the eventual winner. Give some of the slower cars a chance to win or finish up front.

[RickFigure8]

And the CSC Racing chassis that a number of the figure8 cars have are not far off from the cost of an IMCA chassis and is one of if not the best chassis for our division. Again, as I already said, the money in our cars is in the chargers and trucks too.

[TTOR]

Almost every division is hurting with car counts and escalating costs. The fact is Rules are just not policed enough to keep things at an affordable level and to keep things from evolving past that level. As long as I've been coming to riverhead the Fig-8 division has always been the weakest both in car count and the quality of racing. It's understandable why more guys don't enter the division, like was said before if you're going to spend that much money for a purpose built race car you're better off running the trucks, chargers, or latemodels.

As for a stock based division, that would only work if the rules were actually enforced. Just look at the actual enduros, the rules are not exactly what you would call consistently enforced. If we start with a stock division now, a few years down the road we'd have the same problem with a handful of guys skirting the rules and jacking up the cost for anyone else who wants to be competitive. The "enduro/stock" figure-8 deal is a good idea but only if it's done right, although I would first like to see us get the rest of our race dates back before they start adding more divisions.

[deathwishracin1]

As for a stock based division, that would only work if the rules were actually enforced. Just look at the actual enduros, the rules are not exactly what you would call consistently enforced. If we start with a stock division now, a few years down the road we'd have the same problem with a handful of guys skirting the rules and jacking up the cost for anyone else who wants to be competitive.

You mean like the guy that has brought his actual grand enduro car and ran the past two stock 8 races, spec engine, 6 point cage and all? Luckily it seems like that car isn't running right or something, he should be a bit faster than us. Although the ball busting of a 4 point roll bar with a driver door bar added then the complete 6 point cage two cars back being ignored was pretty rediculous. We are at riverhead, policing rules is a pipe dream unfortunately.

[unowho243]

yeah i loved how they gave me a problem about having one to many points in my cage because i added a driver door bar but they let a 6 pt cage grand car run with us... :mad: