Quick question

[hollywoodmic]

Not looking to stir sh*t but someone please explain how the 84 - last 3 finishes- 17th, 7th and 1st starts in front of the 15 last 3 finishes 11th, 9th, and 6th???? I know we had some cars missing but I guess they ended the rule that you can't start in the Top 5 if you've already won. Aside from the 1st 3 weeks when they rely on the previous years final 3 weeks for handicapping I don't recall seeing the previous weeks winner starting up as high as 4th (unless it was time trials). Again not complaining just looking for an explanation and I'm using those two cars as the example.

[mbgolfer]

not sure, but it is on money earned, which I would think it's the same as where you finished.:confused:

[luvmods]

:confused: Steve, funny you questioned that too. Unfortunately I wasn't there last night because of prior family commitment. My husband, Kenny (Wayne's crew chief,) called me with the lineup, then as soon as the race ended he called with the finish. I questioned the exact same thing. How does John start ahead of us????? And yes, also using the 84 and 15 as an example though I'm sure there are others too. Had I been there I would have gone to Kristie and asked as I'm sure there must be a reasonable explanation. Anyway, Kenny said they did away with that rule. Oh well, guess it just depends on the night.
Laurie

[mbgolfer]

Ok, I might have this right. In the last 3 races, Fortin, Anderson & Beatty, had the same amount of pts. But Fortin had the worse finish of 17th.:confused:

[luvmods]

well you could be correct on that. but you never know how they do stuff at the track...each week different rules, etc. :lol:

[modified_fan]

I guess frustrations set in at this time of the year. It would be nice if the handicapping was printed out and distributed to the teams at some point......perhaps the winter meetings? At least this way everyone would feel they were being dealt a fair hand from week to week.

Regardless.......has anyone ever seen a sorer winner?

Protesting the 51 last night? Justin and Aaron had......what........about a 12 hour drive to Canada for today's race? Hey....put up the bucks and protest anything.....anyone. Its a right at this track. But.....last night.....considering the circumstances of the tour race.......it seemed pretty low.

Jumping the restart to win last week? Jumping it twice last night? Heck....he prolly would have won both races without doing such given his track position. The 84 is a top driver with good equipment and crew.......but geez....show a little sportsmanship.

Amber's convenient forgetting to shift at the start last week?.........~rolls eyes~.

And.....that fight last week? Yes....2 wives were tossed......but many drivers were involved.


Yes....may the better drive win the title next week........but I will be pulling for the better sportsman.

I would like to see a gracious winner.

[BigRed]

I guess everyone forgot about bonsignore protesting Fortin 2 years ago

[BigRed]

I guess when fortins got that much power under the hood it would seem like he jump the start but two clean starts is what I saw alot of drivers don't know how to shift on starts as far as I can see John makes most drivers look like fools on restarts whether he's on the pole or outside

[BigRed]

Ok, I might have this right. In the last 3 races, Fortin, Anderson & Beatty, had the same amount of pts. But Fortin had the worse finish of 17th.:confused:

U r correct mbgolfer the three drivers accumulated the same amount of points there last three races and the driver with the worst finish starts ahead of the other drivers they also got rid of the rule if u win u can't start better then fifth

[MaKiN Em SiCk]

I guess everyone forgot about bonsignore protesting Fortin 2 years ago

That was for a missing part from the car that needs to be there in order to pass spring tech, and has been a DQ item if it falls off during a race for YEARS... John protested due to the fact that he thinks the 51 has traction control...

[BigRed]

That was for a missing part from the car that needs to be there in order to pass spring tech, and has been a DQ item if it falls off during a race for YEARS... John protested due to the fact that he thinks the 51 has traction control...

U might be right about traction control as I've heard rumors of other drivers saying he is the only car that can come off the corner through the bumps and car is not effected I've been around racing for many of years and never seen a car not loose any ground going through bumps

[RacinRob]

Obviously if it was protested and deemed legal there's no traction control. Seems like sour grapes to me.

[MaKiN Em SiCk]

U might be right about traction control as I've heard rumors of other drivers saying he is the only car that can come off the corner through the bumps and car is not effected I've been around racing for many of years and never seen a car not loose any ground going through bumps

Sir, I never once implied that I agreed with this protest, just filling you in on the details, the car was deemed legal, so case closed as far as that is concerned... as far as the 51 being "good off the corners", set up and had work go a long way, compiled with Justins talent, I really dont think there is much else to look at...

[BigRed]

Sir, I never once implied that I agreed with this protest, just filling you in on the details, the car was deemed legal, so case closed as far as that is concerned... as far as the 51 being "good off the corners", set up and had work go a long way, compiled with Justins talent, I really dont think there is much else to look at...

Sorry if I wrote that wrong I didn't mean u agreed with the protest just other drivers have been talking about it and as far as coming off the corner no setup and good driver can get through the bumps without getting loose and being able to beat top notch teams to the next corner it doesn't happen Unless ur cheating

[RacinRob]

I'm confused...your cheating if you beat a top teams car into the corner? That sounds like a pretty dumb comment. It happens everyweek in every division when top teans battle. One beats the other. Don't mean they're cheating.

[T_BONE]

Great driver great setup -end of story!!

[Wheel Racing]

If anyone paid attention, Justin outdrives everyone into the corner which allows him to set them up for the pass coming off the corner. Bottom line is the kid can flat-out drive. He shows up at new tracks all the time and is good from the get go. It's all about car control and talent,not artificial traction control.

[mbgolfer]

T-bone, with all the laps & years of experience, with at lease 6 driver's and there crews. you are telling me, that #51 found the hot new set up. I don't think so.

[BigRed]

I agree with u mbgolfer 20 other cars go through the bumps they get sideways the 51 goes through the bumps car stays straight I've been setting up championship modifieds for years and no setup will control going through the bumps the only way is tire softening or traction control

[BigRed]

Justin does have talent but u can't tell me he's a better driver or has a better crew then Tommy rogers and John Fortin at least John had the guts to protest him if he's not cheating then the better team one

[mbgolfer]

The only one I ever saw come off the corner like that ,was WA #15, with a different kind of rear end, that you can run back in those days. Help me somebody out there. Was that a locker?

[Spectator]

Justin does have talent but u can't tell me he's a better driver or has a better crew then Tommy rogers and John Fortin at least John had the guts to protest him if he's not cheating then the better team one

And when tommy rogers was whooping your guys ass last year i bet you guys cried about him cheating too.

[BigRed]

No actually everybody said we were cheating with tires and that's why they moved the trailer to the other side and if u know who I am I'm best friends with Tommy Rogers even though I don't work on his car

[BigRed]

And for everyone to know John stopped the protest early so Justin could get to Canada so that's how It ended so everyone can think hes a bad guy but nobody has a clue of all the details

[mbgolfer]

Well, the last ass whooping was way back in 2000 by Frank V Jr. winning the championship by 106 pts.

[BigRed]

And when tommy rogers was whooping your guys ass last year i bet you guys cried about him cheating too.
I mean I guess 6 pts is a whoop ass for a riverhead championship but when the 84 team wins back to back ny state championships and a whole lot more of money is involved I guess that's not whooping everyone's ass yea Tommy won riverhead but John won ny state back to back

[MaKiN Em SiCk]

If everyone here seems to think that the 51 is either soaking, or has some form of illegal part on that car, then put your money where you mouth is... no one cut the protest off early, John protested, Walter checked the ignition system, and the car was deemed legal, the 51 left with $250 dollars in protest money...

If you guys are that concerned, then put it up, protest the whole car... I mean if every one is that dead set on the 51 cheating, im sure you will find something, no?...

Every year this comes up at some point, and every year they are proven wrong, sad to say it guys but maybe these cats got theyre act together... I mean im sure the traction control worked well at Bristol...

I remember when everyone said years ago that Chuck was cheating with all the pole awards through the season... in fact traction control was the complaint of choice...

... Weird

[mwf44]

Anybody that questions the talents & abilities of M3 #51 Team just gotta tune into SPEED TV on Sept. 24 for a reality check. Those doubters must have missed the Live show on SPEED TV from Bristol back Aug. 24. GET REAL YOU FOOLS !!!

[hollywoodmic]

mbgolfer I was on that team.............That was an ass whooping. We clinched with taking the green with 3 weeks to go in the season. We finished 6th in the region back then and that paid around $8500 in point fund $$$ from NASCAR.

Everyone said we were cheating too. Justin is a great driver his team has found something and they are capitalizing on it. May the best team win.

Hey Mario welcome aboard. You've had some influnce on this kid since you jumped on the JB Band wagon. Good luck to all.

[Hollywood]

Really? The officials take the MSD boxes out, check them and deem that JB is not cheating...Isn't that enough? Or are the officials in the 51's pocket? Come on...NONSENSE! Even in the go karts, my son would follow Justin's line and hit the bumps, Justin would cruise through them and my son end up in the wall... Listen, What people are hearing in the stands from the engines is REAL SMOOTH Throttle control.. Justin is not standing on the throttle in the bumps like a lot of people do... This helps keep the car settled down.
Justin is just THAT GOOD....

[mbgolfer]

Getting back to the original thread, you sure sturred up some sh*t

[Golf Guy]

Sorry if I wrote that wrong I didn't mean u agreed with the protest just other drivers have been talking about it and as far as coming off the corner no setup and good driver can get through the bumps without getting loose and being able to beat top notch teams to the next corner it doesn't happen Unless ur cheating

I love the other drivers quote with no name of the drivers. Almost as good as the un-named source. LOL

[maestri fan 1]

Just trowing it out there but Justin is a fantastic driver who can drive the hell out of anything he gets into. I for one hope he gets the championship, he deserves it with his non stop commitment every week traveling from where ever he is just to race at Riverhead.

Anyways back to the original reason for this thread... I know this will go in one ear and right out the other, but TIME TRIALS EVERY WEEK!!!!!! If they had that, this thread wouldn't even exist!!!!

[Ka$h25]

Justin is definitely cheating. Why wouldn't he? A Riverhead championship is exactly what he needs to propel his career to the top ranks. The Whelen tour rookie of the year award was nice, and setting the track record at Bristol didn't hurt either. His first tour win this season and sitting 8th in points might look cute on a resume as well. But what really matters and what is definitely worth risking your reputation for is that illustrious Riverhead Raceway Modified Championship. Heck, they probably can't even afford to run the season next year without that fat point fund check.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[jeffrey]

you guys talk so much sh$t you can fill a cesspool.I have to laugh at all this cr@p.:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Wheel Racing]

Anyways back to the original reason for this thread... I know this will go in one ear and right out the other, but TIME TRIALS EVERY WEEK!!!!!! If they had that, this thread wouldn't even exist!!!!

Time Trials suck and make for boring racing. Coming through the pack is the type of racing that is fun to watch



How much cheating did Justin do when he jumped in a Fig 8 car for the first time and almost won? Talent is talent and jealousy is see through

[TTOR]

When Tom Rogers was running great last season people were saying he had traction control too. If you guys think cheating is a problem, don't blame the cheaters, blame the officials who randomly choose which rules to enforce on which drivers. If some teams choose to exploit the ineptitude of the officials and get away with it more power to them...not that that's what Justin is doing, from what I can tell hes just a really talented driver with a team that has a lot of backing.

Back to the original topic, Time Trial shows are horrible for the fans, but the Handicap system can work, but they need to streamline it and make it available to drivers and fans so we all know what is going on. I also was confused seeing the 84 start so high after winning the previous race. All I could think was that it'd be a real shame if that was what decided the title, luckily Justin rebounded pretty well.

[Ka$h25]

When Tom Rogers was running great last season people were saying he had traction control too. If you guys think cheating is a problem, don't blame the cheaters, blame the officials who randomly choose which rules to enforce on which drivers. If some teams choose to exploit the ineptitude of the officials and get away with it more power to them...not that that's what Justin is doing, from what I can tell hes just a really talented driver with a team that has a lot of backing.

Back to the original topic, Time Trial shows are horrible for the fans, but the Handicap system can work, but they need to streamline it and make it available to drivers and fans so we all know what is going on. I also was confused seeing the 84 start so high after winning the previous race. All I could think was that it'd be a real shame if that was what decided the title, luckily Justin rebounded pretty well.

When the 98 and 99 team were hot a couple years ago they were accused of traction control. When Tommy Rogers was hot last season he was accused of traction control. Who can forget the scene throwing his firesuit at the officials. And now Bonsignore is hot and he's being protested. Clearly you can't be good without cheating. And all three protests have one common denominator. A driver with no respect for his competitors.

[Hollywood]

You can fix this with CASH put up the money, pick a part on the car, lose your cash.... Why doesn't someone protest shocks? rear ends? intake manifolds? Mufflers? Fuel? (and do a REAL test for fuel additives) These are the overlooked areas..... Not with tires and traction control...
Go get em Justin...

[mbgolfer]

The officals are looking in the wrong place. They have to look at the space between the ears about 18" back from the streering wheel! LOL

[livelovelax37]

Obviously if it was protested and deemed legal there's no traction control. Seems like sour grapes to me.


John decided not to go through with the full protest due to the fact that Justin had a race the next day. He wasn't going to make the kid have all that work to do plus set up his car. So it was deemed legal for that reason; nothing was torn apart or cut open. I guess Fortin's such a terrible guy like everyone plays him out to be right? That guy would give anybody the shirt off his back if they needed it, he doesn't get the respect that he deserves at that racetrack.

[racekitten]

OK...back to the original topic.

First off: hollywoodmic...Wayne's finishes were 11th, 8th and 6th.

It was said in another post that Fortin, Anderson and Beatty all had the same amount of points (106) for the last 3 weeks - that is correct and in the event of a tie, the person with the worst finish in those three weeks goes first. So with Fortin's 17th finish he would go first.

For the other part of the question...this is the second year that both "winner" rules have not been in the handicapping rules (A.The one about the winner from the previous week being the last of the qualifying (or since we have no heats - the last of the non-rear cars) and B. the rule about any winner from the current season can not start in the top 4). This was done by the higher-ups to make it easier for one of our guys to get the NYS championship.

Modified_fan: To your statement that the handicapping rules should be available to all drivers...They are handed out the first week (since all divisions are there) to whoever (driver or crewman) that pulls the trailer in and it was actually done the first 2 weeks this year. It is a three-page packet and the first page in the center says: TO ALL DRIVERS and is the general track rules. Page 2 in that packet is the handicapping rules. Do you know where I see most of them going when they are handed out? On the dashboard (they are still there somewhere under other papers now when some of these guys pull in), passenger floor/seat or they just throw it behind them to land SOMEWHERE in the back seat. Check the truck...it might still be in one of theses places lol

[WEEZER]

Ah poetic justice when somebody's put in their place. Nice job helping some people understand things Racekitten!!!

[mbgolfer]

Neither Justin or John is going to win the state championship, some one from Holland has more pts. already. RR needed to do a double race, to make up for one of the two rain outs this year. Nice going RR

[The Bullfather]

Who was put in their place? All I saw was a question, then came the protest part. Christie respond and answered it!

[mbgolfer]

Who was put in their place? All I saw was a question, then came the protest part. Christie respond and answered it!

Pete,no bench racing this week?

[Richie25]

Pete,no bench racing this week?



http://www.pitstoppitbull.com/benchracing.htm ?????????????????????????????

[The Bullfather]

taped it wed. nite, late but it's up now. :)

[Ka$h25]

Neither Justin or John is going to win the state championship, some one from Holland has more pts. already. RR needed to do a double race, to make up for one of the two rain outs this year. Nice going RR

How can this be the tracks fault? The mods are on the schedule every week. Barbara and Jim can't do anything about Amy having a killer season up there.

[iamaranger]

can the track do the split race thing whenever they want, or do they have to get permission from nascar?

[mbgolfer]

Kash, get with the program.

[Teds Race Tours]

How can this be the tracks fault? The mods are on the schedule every week. Barbara and Jim can't do anything about Amy having a killer season up there.

Not really Amy having a killer Season. She runs 2 tracks, one of which has horrible car counts, and got in 24 events, and got to throw out 6 of her worst point finishes. Justin Only Got 16 events in, and needed just 1 maybe 2 more events, and even with the 25th place in the 77 lapper, would have won the title. Is it the track fault? no, but I sure would have liked one more Mod Race to see if Justin could have gotten the 24 points it took for the title.

[Ka$h25]

Not really Amy having a killer Season. She runs 2 tracks, one of which has horrible car counts, and got in 24 events, and got to throw out 6 of her worst point finishes. Justin Only Got 16 events in, and needed just 1 maybe 2 more events, and even with the 25th place in the 77 lapper, would have won the title. Is it the track fault? no, but I sure would have liked one more Mod Race to see if Justin could have gotten the 24 points it took for the title.

I didn't do that much research but 23 top-5's out of 24 starts is pretty impressive regardless. Everyone was quick to say Justin and John were robbed by not having enough starts but Timmerman had an even better season than Catalano (finished 80pts ahead in Spencer standings) Unfortunately for him Spencer only had 14 races. He could have been well ahead of everyone had he found 2 extra starts somewhere. There's always going to be ifs, ands, or buts- it is what it is.

[hollywoodmic]

I just noticed.............WEEZER?? Who was put in their place??? It was a legitimate question that Christie then answered. After answering it I personally spoke to her to thank her for the explanation. I also mentioned to her that when Bob Koplan was alive it was done a little different. She aknkowledged that fact as well, and said it's done a little different now. I guess we can't ask questions on here?? Nobody put me in my place!!! Someone one did answer my question and that was appreciated.