Question on 1st race penality

[Rentawrench]

What were the penaities to the 36&51 teams?


Seems this is less. LW will be running out of crew guys to be called "Crew Chief" soon.


http://localracing.nascar.com/nascar-whelen-southern-modified-tour_no_36_crew_chief_penalized_92711

[Jaws]

Unapproved jets I believe.

[Acadia]

The 36 & 51 were penalized for doctored boosters. Per the rules they are supposed to be as stock.

[Jaws]

The 36 & 51 were penalized for doctored boosters. Per the rules they are supposed to be as stock.

Opps sorry thats right.

[Howie]

This is the NASCAR press release sent out at the time. http://hometracks.nascar.com/Release/Whelen_Modified_Tour_Teams_Penalized

[Rentawrench]

Thanks Howie thats what I wanted to know .
$500. fine & points in North, $250. in South

[Acadia]

The fine is supposed to be a deterrent. The first place payout at the Icebreaker was like $9k. Run an illegal carb, pay $500 fine, win $9k, laugh all the way to the bank. If that is the precedent, I expect to see illegal carb penalties these last two races. Why not? Cars that are not contending for points can go for the first place payout and skew the points distribution of the contenders. The $500 fine was useless. To see a similar fine for only $250 is just ludicrous.

[Rentawrench]

People PLEASE read the Questions when posting, I knew What was Illegal, but not the Fine.

K&N East take carbs more serious

http://localracing.nascar.com/nascar-kn-pro-series-east_no_9_crew_chief_penalized%20_92711

[Acadia]

That NSWMT infraction is interesting. Lowering the venturis is a very significant change. Somebody tried real hard to get an advantage. That's on par with reducing boosters. $250 is a useless penalty. That deserves a serious penalty. Wonder how long it has been like that.

The rule book reads that there is little to be done to the carb and should be used pretty much as manufactured. It is certainly grey. The carb is the choke point and one of the single most important parts that influences horsepower. The rules need to be rewritten and tightened up as far as what can and cannot to be fiddled with, and defined limits, and then the capability to inspect all those features to assure compliance with the rules must be established and kept up to date with the tricks that will be tried.

NASCAR has been rather aggressive with carb inspections this season, and it shows positively on the track.

[modfan4ever]

Why does the South guy's only get a $250.00 fine and the north get a $500.00 fine...somethings not right with this.?...Please someone answer that question...is the southern mod tour better then the northern tour?......NOT

[Acadia]

And why a $2500 fine in the K&N Series?

The $250 and $500 fines are silly and useless. If NASCAR wants to stop this, the penalties have to mean something. DQ, no points or winnings payout.

Complete engines are yanked and inspected after every Cup race. Similarly, the carbs need to be carefully scrutinized in these regional series.

[Howie]

Only guessing, but the size of the fines probably varies in proportion with the size of the purses in the various divisions.

[Jaws]

The fine is supposed to be a deterrent. The first place payout at the Icebreaker was like $9k. Run an illegal carb, pay $500 fine, win $9k, laugh all the way to the bank. If that is the precedent, I expect to see illegal carb penalties these last two races. Why not? Cars that are not contending for points can go for the first place payout and skew the points distribution of the contenders. The $500 fine was useless. To see a similar fine for only $250 is just ludicrous.

The carb was not illegal it was only the boosters that were "Un approved" Its the points that hurt too as they will get less point fund money at the end of the year.

It sure must be quiet now if we are talking about something that happened in April.

[Jaws]

Only guessing, but the size of the fines probably varies in proportion with the size of the purses in the various divisions.

They do get paid a bit more in the K & N series don't they.

[Acadia]

Boosters are parts of the carburetor. Very important parts of the carburetor. The boosters were cut, material removed, to improve airflow, and that's illegal. If the boosters that are parts of the carburetor are illegal, then the carburetor is illegal. Unapproved is the same as illegal, which is the same as in violation of the rules. Have those "unapproved" boosters been approved? I don't think so. I don't see how you can say the carb was not illegal.

And we are talking about this because it is being compared to recent fines for other illegally altered carburetors. $250 for the NSWMT, $500 for the NWMT, and $2,500 for the K&N. That's quite a span.

That $250 isn't much of a penalty. That's about the price of a tire. Big deal. That $500 isn't a penalty for the NWMT, just additional cost of racing. Modify the carburetor, gain a horsepower advantage, win far more than the $500 cost of the penalty, laugh all the way to the bank. The 50 points was not significant either. Might cost a spot in the final standings, might not.



The carb was not illegal it was only the boosters that were "Un approved" Its the points that hurt too as they will get less point fund money at the end of the year.

It sure must be quiet now if we are talking about something that happened in April.

[NWMT PR]

Fines based on numerous factors. Howie touched on part of it.

Acadia ... 50 points to Christopher and Bonsignore was pretty significant. Christopher would have been leading the points at the time the team decided to skip Bristol and Delaware. If they were not docked that 50, you'd think they would have kept going for the title. With the win today, they could've possibly been chasing a title at Thompson.

[Acadia]

NWMT PR, thanks for the explanation.

With the penalty, the 36 would have had to place 2nd or better at the 2 events it missed to be in contention today. Without the penalty, it could have finished around 5th at those events and be in contention today.

So it is reasonable that if the car went to Delaware and Bristol, the penalty probably cost the team at least the championship. It is very unlikely that the 36 would have collected better than 2nd place points at Delaware and Bristol. But not going to Delaware and Bristol definitely cost the team the championship. It is clear that points had nothing to do with the decision to not go to Delaware and Bristol. That team has other issues that have been made public, and points were not a consideration in Delaware or Bristol. Not going to those events, just one event, cost the championship. The 50 point penalty could have been overcome, which says just how weak the penalty was. They were not going to Delaware or Bristol regardless of the points.

But what I don't get is how rules can be violated like that, and the car/driver/owner still gets the overwhelming benefit of the win. The first place win was like $9,000, and 185 first place points. To be "punished" by a $500 fine and only 50 points is really not that bad at all. The $500 fine was actually a good investment to increase the possibility of winning first place money. It's sort of crazy that the car could have still been a championship contender, but that just shows how the current points penalty structure isn't much of a penalty or deterrent. Does NASCAR really want a car that cheated to win a championship?

If points penalties are going to be meted out, then they need to be insurmountable. Otherwise, it isn't a penalty. It's just another challenge that needs to be overcome. And there's already way too much effort spent on getting around the rules, the Tour doesn't need a weak penalty as a reason to try even harder to recover points.

[MOD11RACER]

[QUOTE=Acadia;170490]NWMT PR, thank for the explanation.

With the penalty, the 36 would have had to place 2nd or better at the 2 events it missed to be in contention today. Without the penalty, it could have finished around 5th at those events and be in contention today.

So it is reasonable that if the car went to Delaware and Bristol, the penalty probably cost the team at least the championship. It is very unlikely that the 36 would have collected better than 2nd place points at Delaware and Bristol. But not going to Delaware and Bristol definitely cost the team the championship. It is clear that points had nothing to do with the decision to not go to Delaware and Bristol. That team has other issues that have been made public, and points were not a consideration in Delaware or Bristol. Not going to those events, just one event, cost the championship. The 50 point penalty could have been overcome, which says just how weak the penalty was. They were not going to Delaware or Bristol regardless of the points.

But what I don't get is how rules can be violated like that, and the car/driver/owner still gets the overwhelming benefit of the win. The first place win was like $9,000, and 185 first place points. To be "punished" by a $500 fine and only 50 points is really not that bad at all. The $500 fine was actually a good investment to increase the possibility of winning first place money. It's sort of crazy that the car could have still been a championship contender, but that just shows how the current points penalty structure isn't much of a penalty or deterrent. Does NASCAR really want a car that cheated to win a championship?

If points penalties are going to be meted out, then they need to be insurmountable. Otherwise, it isn't a penalty. It's just another challenge that needs to be overcome. And there's already way too much effort spent on getting around the rules, the Tour doesn't need a weak penalty as a reason to try even harder to recover points.[/QUOTE

I agree: Looking at this is like I wrote it myself. Great job.