Tire Question(s)...

[Goldy]

Just curious – can someone summarize for me the (recent) past, current and potential future tire supplier landscape on the WMT?

Specifically, thoughts or comments around:

How long does Hoosier have an exclusive deal?

Did Goodyear want to exit, might they re-enter at some time?

How a competitive tire situation could potentially drive down costs?

Past and current tire pricing, deals for teams? How did a the previous competitive situation shape those deals?

Thanks…

[Goldy]

No, it’s okay – don’t everybody chime in at once, I know there was lots of racing this weekend…

I did a little basic search on the “internets” and came up with this itty, bitty piece of information – mind you, I’ve never even heard of this guy (Peter Madden) but it looks as if he or someone, put together a nifty little summary back around Y2K regarding “The cost of racing a Featherlite Modified (http://www.angelfire.com/ma/doctor/cost.html)”… while I’m not sure of the information listed here, it does satisfy some of my curiosity around the year Hoosier became the exclusive supplier on the tour.. drum roll please… the internet’s saying… 2001, sounds about right.. thank-you internet..

So no one’s got an example of what a Goodyear or Hoosier “tire deal” might have been back before 2001 or what some select teams might be getting today vs. the have not’s?

[Acadia]

Way back when GoodYear was also supplying tires, only 2 or 3 cars were running Hoosier. GY was clearly the preferred tire. Then NASCAR goes and makes Hoosier the only tire.

Go figure.

If GY was to be brought in to supply tires, let's say that the field goes 50/50 for GY and Hoosier. Well, that will just about cut Hoosier sales in half. Their tire prices would have to go up.

The thing is, the field will use the best tire, and that means almost all of them will end up using the same brand. So way back when most were using GY and like 2 or 3 cars were using Hoosier, was it even worth it for Hoosier to show up at the track to supply tires to those 3 cars?

I would hope that when NASCAR does such a deal, they do so in the best interests of the Tour and in awarding a monopoly to Hoosier, pricing is part of that such that the arrangement is better than dual sources. That's how it works... assure the supplier a sole source arrangement in exchange for better than competitive pricing.

[Rentawrench]

Nascar wanted GoodYear as the Only suppiler. In 2000 it was more than 2-3 cars.

GoodYear were TimeTrial quick an Hooiser was the distance tire,but with over 30 cars coming it was Hard to get the provisonals. Most Top teams were on the "Deal" even some of us lil teams got something. It was "free gas & Tires" (VP vs Sunoco GY vs Hooiser) for the Top teams. How much of an impact was the "only Nascar suppllier" Most of those teams are gone.

Good F-I mean-Acadia Hooiser was fighting for its life GoodYear pulled out Shocking NASCAR Brass. I say Thank you to Hooiser for sticking with the Mods( an the HELP the gave my team I was an owner)

[Bob T. Racer]

I can still see that Acadia doesn't have a freaking clue. I'd also like to Thank Hoosier for all the help over the years!!! The tire war was good for all involved- Goodyear and Hoosier, especially the car owners.

[catfish]

Probably the most expensive part for either supplier was the fact that they had to have enough tires for every entered car regardless of how many teams actually ran their brand of tires. So if 2-3 teams ran Brand A and there were 40 cars on the pits they needed to bring enough for each of the 40 cars meaning a hell of a lot of unused tires for the suppliers. That cost alone would be enough to run out a supplier without a large following!!!

[Acadia]

NASCAR wanted GoodYear to be the only supplier, when effectively, it was already even with Hoosier around. With only a couple cars using Hoosiers, GoodYear was effectively the only tire supplier. Unlikely that the couple cars using Hoosiers were paying for them, Hoosier was probably using those teams to get the tires in use. So if NASCAR went to the tire suppliers and told them that they could be the exclusive tire supplier if they provided better than competitive pricing, GoodYear thought, "Hey, aren't we already the only tire supplier? Why should we reduce our prices when we already are the only tire supplier?" Hoosier was trying to claw its way into the mix and would have to offer dramatically better pricing to overcome the advantage of the GoodYear.

Think about it... How much was the difference in price between the Hoosier and GoodYear? 5%, 10%, 50%, 2x, 3x, ???? The guys I knew then wouldn't consider anything other than the GoodYear because it raced better. If they wanted the best chance to win, they used the tire that they thought gave them the best chance. So was the GoodYear the better performing tire and lower price? Or was the higher price of the GoodYear a cost that had to be paid in order to keep up with the other cars running the GoodYear?

I'm sure when there were only a couple cars using the Hoosier, the pricing had to be way less than the GoodYear. I used to wonder how much longer Hoosier could afford to pursue the Mod series. GoodYear was the tire preferred by the racers as evidenced by the fact that they overwhelmingly went with the GoodYear although the Hoosier was available. Was the Hoosier more expensive than the GoodYear?

So what's really funny is that way back when, GoodYear was the goliath tire giant that had no competition, and was replaced by Hoosier by mandate. Now Hoosier is the monopoly and there is no tire competition. doh?

GoodYear probably doesn't make Mod series tires anymore.

There was no tire war. Somebody pissed somebody off, somebody called somebody's bluff and was surprised.

[MOD JUNKIE]

Whatever tire is used just keep it the wide tire. South guys ran a race at caraway two weeks ago on the bowman grey skinny tire and these great race cars look like crap with the skinny ones.

[Rentawrench]

Arc there was a "Tire War" Good year Timed trialed well But went to JUNK during the race, Who were "your Friends"

The 44 Won the Championship in 2000, over Reggie & Rick Fuller . 1st an 2nd were Hooiser cars & 3rd Rick Fuller ( 8 ) , Tim Connelly in the 4. So I guess Hoosier's were a Good Race tire. Hooiser made in Indiana & Goodyears made in Brazil. The prices were the same.


I guess since you donot READ all of what is posted, even Hoosier was Told Goodyear had the "Deal" . Good Year's Brass pulled the Plug.

Acadia you have as NO clue about Mods from pit side, only the Stands Just like Nascar. PLEASE stay there You one sided views on TC An Cheating are OLD. I have owned an crewed cars in Both the Tour& MRS . an understand the cost& rule differntaces.

This has been a Hard week for me, Thinking of the Leader we Lost ( Richie) an my Friend JB III .Happy Birthday JB III Miss you .

[Acadia]

Was that the only year two tire options were available? What about other years?

And I can list cars that used GY too. Richie Evans for one.

You really know specifically what cars were using what brand of tire in 2000?

What was the "war" over if prices were the same and most cars used GoodYear?

There could not have been a war if GoodYear walked. If NASCAR wanted GoodYear and GY had the "deal", why would GoodYear walk away? There must have been something else. Someone explain why GoodYear walked away even though they were the chosen one.

I read it, but I disregard what doesn't make sense. If you believe everything you read, you better stop reading.

I sense the appreciation for the support from the tire companies. I was hoping for an objective discussion.

If 35 teams show up, most are spending around $500k or more a year to play. That doesn't mean they all know what they are doing. Maybe 8 or so teams on the Tour really know what they are doing. Some spend more than others, some know more than others. You know as you look up and down the pits snickering at teams thinking you know better than them, and they are looking at you thinking they know better than you. Being an owner, a crew, or spending $500k - $750k/yr doesn't mean you know what you are doing. If spending $500k-$750k/yr really meant that a team knew what it was doing, then we'd see 32 cars rounding turn four in a pack for the checker every race. But that doesn't happen now, does it? It's the same cast of characters rounding turn 4 for the checker, those that know what they are doing. It is rather obvious that most teams don't know what they are doing because it shows on the track and in the results. Like I said before, only 8 or so teams really know what they are doing.

So Goldy, I doubt GoodYear makes the Mod series tires anymore. There is no tire competition, and it looks like no chance for any either.




Arc there was a "Tire War" Good year Timed trialed well But went to JUNK during the race, Who were "your Friends"

The 44 Won the Championship in 2000, over Reggie & Rick Fuller . 1st an 2nd were Hooiser cars & 3rd Rick Fuller ( 8 ) , Tim Connelly in the 4. So I guess Hoosier's were a Good Race tire. Hooiser made in Indiana & Goodyears made in Brazil. The prices were the same.


I guess since you donot READ all of what is posted, even Hoosier was Told Goodyear had the "Deal" . Good Year's Brass pulled the Plug.

Acadia you have as NO clue about Mods from pit side, only the Stands Just like Nascar. PLEASE stay there You one sided views on TC An Cheating are OLD. I have owned an crewed cars in Both the Tour& MRS . an understand the cost& rule differntaces.

This has been a Hard week for me, Thinking of the Leader we Lost ( Richie) an my Friend JB III .Happy Birthday JB III Miss you .

[bud]

goodyear pulled out because of a shrinking market I'd guess. Not like there is a huge market for that size tire. Hoosier withstood the cup war so i'm thinking the mod was was small on thier scope of wars. Richie could have won if dunkin donuts were giving him donuts for tires! Anyone remember when The Park went to a track tire and M&H sued? I miss the Reg and the Racemasters...... And yes big A there is a company american race tires that makes a low buck track type tire. I think Hoosier Has done a very good job and the only real money to be saved on tires is to limit the number you can use. That would put the bonzi runs from the back by Teddy to an end though so I'm all against that!

[RGeeProductions]

Rentawrench, you are correct about more than 2-3 cars using Hoosiers in 2000.
There were WAY more...
Too easy to go back over Howie Hodge's photo galleries and pick out the tour cars and what they ran...

[Acadia]

...and the only real money to be saved on tires is to limit the number you can use.

Sometimes the obvious eludes us.

MRS has pretty strict tire rules to limit tire expense. NWMT race lengths have been trimmed to encourage running a race on one set of tires. But, some NWMT teams still changed tires. :disgusted Perhaps NWMT needs a strict tire rule to limit tire consumption.

The thought of running a Mod on a 10" tire gives me the willies.

[MJProcko]

Sometimes the obvious eludes us.

MRS has pretty strict tire rules to limit tire expense. NWMT race lengths have been trimmed to encourage running a race on one set of tires. But, some NWMT teams still changed tires. :disgusted Perhaps NWMT needs a strict tire rule to limit tire consumption.

The thought of running a Mod on a 10" tire gives me the willies.

Sorry but I have to disagree here, not changing tires is not the answer. There is a big difference between driving around saving tires for the end and racing to put yourself into position to win the race by deciding if tires will help or hurt you and having a pit strategy. One is by far better racing for a touring series and its up to the purse to compensate for an extra set of tires.

What are the better races - the ones where someone raced from the back after a pit stop for the win or the one where the guy won because he had better tire management?

[Acadia]

The slightly shorter, or intermediate race length, didn't work. If the race is going to be short, it needs to be an all out sprint, don't-give-a-darn-about-tires race, or go back to the longer race format that needs a tire change.

But this intermediate length race with the hope of running the race with one set of tires didn't work for me. If a strict tire rule was imposed, there would be racing for the first ten laps, then pacing until the last 20, then racing. Better hope there's some wet paint around to watch dry while the pacing happens. That's pretty much what happened this season, and it wasn't that great.




Sorry but I have to disagree here, not changing tires is not the answer. There is a big difference between driving around saving tires for the end and racing to put yourself into position to win the race by deciding if tires will help or hurt you and having a pit strategy. One is by far better racing for a touring series and its up to the purse to compensate for an extra set of tires.

What are the better races - the ones where someone raced from the back after a pit stop for the win or the one where the guy won because he had better tire management?

[Bob T. Racer]

Sometimes the obvious eludes us.

MRS has pretty strict tire rules to limit tire expense. NWMT race lengths have been trimmed to encourage running a race on one set of tires. But, some NWMT teams still changed tires. :disgusted Perhaps NWMT needs a strict tire rule to limit tire consumption.

The thought of running a Mod on a 10" tire gives me the willies.

Acadia please speak for yourself!! You are the only one the obvious eludes. You'd think after all of the posts from other people that you'd learn something. I said it before and i'll say it again. Own a car and maybe you'll get a clue to what you're talking about, because it's obvious Goodfe---(i mean Acadia) you just don't get it!

[Magicshoes12]

I know at Stafford's fall final they were limited to 3 tires, that's was the issue for Szegedy starting the race with a tire that was going down. This is kinda getting funny, will it be another 11 pager? LOL

[Acadia]

Yeah, it's pretty obvious. In recent years past, teams would roll out the big tire rack with 8 tires for events at Stafford and Thompson. This season, they just hand truck 3-4 tires to the infield. I do believe there is a provision in the event of a cut tire to get another tire in the mix.

At the third race, Stafford, the 6 used a no-pit strategy and won. Actually, he led that race wire-to-wire. It can be done. And the 4 did the same and came in third.





I know at Stafford's fall final they were limited to 3 tires, that's was the issue for Szegedy starting the race with a tire that was going down. This is kinda getting funny, will it be another 11 pager? LOL

[Magicshoes12]

Yeah, it's pretty obvious. In recent years past, teams would roll out the big tire rack with 8 tires for events at Stafford and Thompson. This season, they just hand truck 3-4 tires to the infield. I do believe there is a provision in the event of a cut tire to get another tire in the mix.

At the third race, Stafford, the 6 used a no-pit strategy and won. Actually, he led that race wire-to-wire. It can be done. And the 4 did the same and came in third.


The 6 didn't have to pit, it was only 125 lap race, with 3 cautions for 19 laps, so basically 100 green flag laps.

And yes it can be done just like Thompson's North South Showdown, they weren't allowed to pit for tires, so all 25 cars used a no-pit strategy, LOL

Done wasting my breath with this one, LOL

[Acadia]

But other cars did pit for tires in the 125 Lap Stafford race that the 6 won wire-to-wire without a pit, and the 4 ended in third without a pit for tires. And if you listen on the radio, those cars that went without a tire pit marked the cars that pitted for tires. They knew who they had to mark with the fresh tires.

Statistically, 1/3 of the 150 laps at the Stafford races are under caution. The Fall final had only 89 laps of green, and cars were taking tires. On another thread there was considerable discussion on how the owners must have been disgusted using tires in that event since it had so little green running.

Some can do it with tire management, and some can't and just have to keep throwing tires at it.

So if tire quotas are ever invoked on the Tour such as something like MRS, there are teams now that are already smart enough to deal with it. Those that rely on throwing tires at it will have to learn tire management... quickly. It requires lots of thinking. A tire rule will separate those that can from those that can't. Remember high school, nerds vs jocks? Nerds win.