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limodmaniac
10-26-2011, 06:25 PM
Should the tour race at Riverhead be 175 laps like last year or should it be 100 laps green flag laps only?

MJProcko
10-26-2011, 07:09 PM
150 green flag laps only due to lack of infield pitting

200 if you count caution laps but I wouldn't count the first 3 in order to give cars a chance to get in and out.

uticamike
10-26-2011, 09:04 PM
100 all green, no stops.

JWfor8x
10-27-2011, 01:18 AM
I would prefer to keep the current format of 175 laps and count the cautions, but I would like 100 green flag laps too. More important for me is to keep the 25 lap last chance race. Most important for me is that Riverhead is still there, still has modifieds as their premier weekly division and still hosts a tour show.

Teds Race Tours
10-27-2011, 01:50 PM
Riverhead 2012

I think the June Event Should Be 150 Green Flag Laps

I think the July Event Should be 200 Green Flag Laps.

I think The August Event should be 300 laps counting Cautions.

I haven't decided what the September event should be just yet.

JWfor8x
10-27-2011, 02:49 PM
Riverhead 2012

I think the June Event Should Be 150 Green Flag Laps

I think the July Event Should be 200 Green Flag Laps.

I think The August Event should be 300 laps counting Cautions.

I haven't decided what the September event should be just yet.


Maybe on the schedule about 3 weeks before the Octoberfest 500? <G>

MOD11RACER
10-27-2011, 04:56 PM
You should be asking about the purse not about how many laps they should run. Why isn't Riverhead paying a full purse instead of a purse like what the ROC or the MRS pays. Putrid. I guess we haven't learned a thing about 125 lap no stop racing this year ( 1 @ Stafford 2 @ Thompson). What they have @ Riverhead works except for the purse. Why change something that works ?

Why change the format ? Leave it alone. Jim why would you want another ROC or MRS race that rides around for 80 of 100 laps then starts to race ? Don't we have enough boring races now ? Boring, Boring, Boring.

limodmaniac
10-27-2011, 05:54 PM
The number one reason I'd want 100 laps is for safety. Having guys ride around for laps waiting for pit road to open takes forever. Then they have to get in and out of the pits in about 20 seconds or else they go down a lap.

Also, to jazz it up, let guys change a tire in the pits if they want. Days of old when guys did that and tried to come thru the field. For some guys it didn't work. For others ( can you say Mike Ewanitsko) would come flying thru the field.

What I'm saying is Nascar should look at each track as being unique. What you do at Loudon does not necessarily work at Riverhead.

Just trying to keep the dialogue open with the hopes that Nascar does what's best for the modifieds.

MJProcko
10-27-2011, 06:58 PM
What I'm saying is Nascar should look at each track as being unique. What you do at Loudon does not necessarily work at Riverhead.....

Exactly! And at tracks with no infield pitting they should not count cautions or not count the first 3 laps under caution. Not only to give them time to change tires and make the neccesary adjustments without going down 3 laps but just for safety reasons alone. Riverside did something like that and it worked great. plus by starting the counting after 3 laps you don't have guys taking there sweet time getting back out like during a weekly show at many tracks.

The last tour race I went to at riverhead was 200 laps and it was over pretty quick. It did have plenty of time for people to pit and come from the back as well as long green runs.

Jaws
10-27-2011, 07:12 PM
You should be asking about the purse not about how many laps they should run. Why isn't Riverhead paying a full purse instead of a purse like what the ROC or the MRS pays. Putrid. I guess we haven't learned a thing about 125 lap no stop racing this year ( 1 @ Stafford 2 @ Thompson). What they have @ Riverhead works except for the purse. Why change something that works ?

Why change the format ? Leave it alone. Jim why would you want another ROC or MRS race that rides around for 80 of 100 laps then starts to race ? Don't we have enough boring races now ? Boring, Boring, Boring.

Did you notice Justin Bonsignore won over $10,000 at Riverhead (Thanks Jim)

limodmaniac
10-27-2011, 09:06 PM
I know ModRacer11 knows that. He was part of the group of people who made it a big success. What he was referring to was the low paying races "flash" races - the reason the Modified fans have stepped forward... it's a shame we have to do it, but then again, no one is forcing us to - we just are trying to do what is right, and maybe at the same time keep a bullring track on the schedule.

PS - if any one knows someone who loves modifieds ( and has a lot of money) and wants to donate to the cause, please give them my name!!

JWfor8x
10-28-2011, 02:47 AM
Exactly! And at tracks with no infield pitting they should not count cautions or not count the first 3 laps under caution. Not only to give them time to change tires and make the neccesary adjustments without going down 3 laps but just for safety reasons alone. Riverside did something like that and it worked great. plus by starting the counting after 3 laps you don't have guys taking there sweet time getting back out like during a weekly show at many tracks.

The last tour race I went to at riverhead was 200 laps and it was over pretty quick. It did have plenty of time for people to pit and come from the back as well as long green runs.

There was a time at Riverhead when they ran the 201 lap races that they allowed tire changes. Like Jim said in an earlier post, it worked for some and not so well for others. Later, when they did away with the tire changes, it seemed to me that they became more about tire management than flat out racing. One thing that they do at Riverhead that does help with pitting is to allow the cars to pass the pace car at the flag stand to go into the pits, giving a little more time for the pit stop. If the race was 100 laps of green flag racing, maybe the raacing would be better. There are a bunch of folks here way more knowledgable than me about that.

Acadia
10-28-2011, 09:34 AM
Well said. I've said similar elsewhere numerous times already. These no-stop races that are too long for one set of tires are not good.

And at Riverhead, wearing tires out is not a concern. Tires will need to be changed because of accidents long before they wear out.

Races have to be short enough for all out racing with no concern for tire management, or long to force a tire change.

In between those lengths doesn't work.

Do something about cautions and that will be an improvement. 57% of the last Riverhead race was under caution, 11 cautions, a 175 lap event that only ran 75 laps of racing. That is a much bigger problem than format, no-stops, number of laps, counting yellow laps, when to start counting yellow laps, letting cars pass the pace car, etc., etc., etc. None of the formatting options will change the fact that carnage happens on these itty-bitty tracks. Changing the format won't halt or even reduce the carnage. No matter what format you use, there will still be carnage. And a better purse will only help repair the damages.



You should be asking about the purse not about how many laps they should run. Why isn't Riverhead paying a full purse instead of a purse like what the ROC or the MRS pays. Putrid. I guess we haven't learned a thing about 125 lap no stop racing this year ( 1 @ Stafford 2 @ Thompson). What they have @ Riverhead works except for the purse. Why change something that works ?

Why change the format ? Leave it alone. Jim why would you want another ROC or MRS race that rides around for 80 of 100 laps then starts to race ? Don't we have enough boring races now ? Boring, Boring, Boring.

JWfor8x
10-28-2011, 11:59 AM
Well said. I've said similar elsewhere numerous times already. These no-stop races that are too long for one set of tires are not good.

And at Riverhead, wearing tires out is not a concern. Tires will need to be changed because of accidents long before they wear out.

Races have to be short enough for all out racing with no concern for tire management, or long to force a tire change.

In between those lengths doesn't work.

Do something about cautions and that will be an improvement. 57% of the last Riverhead race was under caution, 11 cautions, a 175 lap event that only ran 75 laps of racing. That is a much bigger problem than format, no-stops, number of laps, counting yellow laps, when to start counting yellow laps, letting cars pass the pace car, etc., etc., etc. None of the formatting options will change the fact that carnage happens on these itty-bitty tracks. Changing the format won't halt or even reduce the carnage. No matter what format you use, there will still be carnage. And a better purse will only help repair the damages.

It is not the track size that causes carnage. I have been going to Long Island tracks since the 1950's. Freeport Stadium was 1/4 mile with 2 banked turns and 2 flat turns. Islip Speedway was 1/5'th mile and Riverhead is 1/4'th. Sometimes there are many wrecks, sometimes not, just like any other track. Thompson is a 5/8 mile track. Wasn't there a lot of carnage there at the World Series? I'd suggest that there are other causes for wrecks besides the size of the track, but I won't bother.

Mod Squad
10-28-2011, 12:27 PM
I know ModRacer11 knows that. He was part of the group of people who made it a big success. What he was referring to was the low paying races "flash" races - the reason the Modified fans have stepped forward... it's a shame we have to do it, but then again, no one is forcing us to - we just are trying to do what is right, and maybe at the same time keep a bullring track on the schedule.

PS - if any one knows someone who loves modifieds ( and has a lot of money) and wants to donate to the cause, please give them my name!!

While I applaud the efforts of LIModmaniac and all the others who stepped up to sponsor the race at Riverhead, I think it's a bad precedent to set.

Like any true fan in any type of racing we all know every Driver, Owner and Team Member has at one time or another puts his own time, money, and effort to race with little or no return.

While the drivers and teams are thankful for the overwhelming generosity of the fans, N@$(@& is laughing all the way to the bank. To justify for them that times are tough and they’re losing money is ridiculous. Go to Racing Reference and look at purse payouts for the big three and see what last place pays at Daytona. It’s been said before on this board and others. Daytona needs to step up and take ownership of the series the right way. Better purses and more one-day show schedules would be a start.

Paying the purse for them is NOT the way to go. It’s like giving table food to the dog, you do it once and they’ll keep expecting it every time you eat. JMHO

JWfor8x
10-28-2011, 01:56 PM
While I applaud the efforts of LIModmaniac and all the others who stepped up to sponsor the race at Riverhead, I think it's a bad precedent to set.

Like any true fan in any type of racing we all know every Driver, Owner and Team Member has at one time or another puts his own time, money, and effort to race with little or no return.

While the drivers and teams are thankful for the overwhelming generosity of the fans, N@$(@& is laughing all the way to the bank. To justify for them that times are tough and they’re losing money is ridiculous. Go to Racing Reference and look at purse payouts for the big three and see what last place pays at Daytona. It’s been said before on this board and others. Daytona needs to step up and take ownership of the series the right way. Better purses and more one-day show schedules would be a start.

Paying the purse for them is NOT the way to go. It’s like giving table food to the dog, you do it once and they’ll keep expecting it every time you eat. JMHO

I agree that Daytona needs to step up, but as far as the payouts, espescially at a track like Riverhead, I can't see the comparison between payouts for the big three and the last place payout at Daytona. I don't have access to the Cromarty's books, but I doubt if they are making money hand over fist there. A couple of years ago, when there were rumors of the track closing, I read that they turned down an offer of $1M per acre for the property, I think it's about 20 acres. I am willing to bet that there are a lot of people who if they had the chance to make that kind of money, would have jumped at it. I'm not at all sure that they can justify paying what the tour deserves, maybe I'm wrong. I can't blame them for NASCAR's abuse of the tour and don't think that it was wrong for anyone to give towards increasing the payout, just as I don't think anyone was wrong in not giving.

Mod Squad
10-28-2011, 02:36 PM
I agree that Daytona needs to step up, but as far as the payouts, espescially at a track like Riverhead, I can't see the comparison between payouts for the big three and the last place payout at Daytona. I don't have access to the Cromarty's books, but I doubt if they are making money hand over fist there. A couple of years ago, when there were rumors of the track closing, I read that they turned down an offer of $1M per acre for the property, I think it's about 20 acres. I am willing to bet that there are a lot of people who if they had the chance to make that kind of money, would have jumped at it. I'm not at all sure that they can justify paying what the tour deserves, maybe I'm wrong. I can't blame them for NASCAR's abuse of the tour and don't think that it was wrong for anyone to give towards increasing the payout, just as I don't think anyone was wrong in not giving.

JW, I guess my post came out wrong. I'm not trying to discredit anything LIModManiac or the Cromarty's have done. Far from it. As I said I applaud them for stepping up. My point is look what last place gets paid at any cup race. Never Mind just Daytona. The payout for 43rd in some cases surpasses the entire fields payout in NWMT event. Yes I understand bigger series, TV sponsors, more money spent, bigger venues. I get all of that. The point is the race purses on the NWMT schedule today have stagnated and/or dropped from what they were even 20 years ago. If the fans keep filling the holes up in the purses. What message is that sending to the leadership downsouth? As a side note if I had money to sponsor or drive a car myself I would, unfortunately the US Government doesn't pay me enough, but that's a whole different story. Cheers!

limodmaniac
10-28-2011, 05:00 PM
Adding to the purse should, if anything, make Nascar see how pitiful the purse situation is

If I didn't add to the purse ( and I have thought about this), I'd just pick ten drivers I like and sponsor them for the night. Even though, it's only 300 bucks per driver, I do get the feeling that they appreciate it. So if any one is laughing at me for handing over the money and "paying the purse" I don't really care. Because I think it is appreciated.

The people who come up with the extra money for the Riverhead race are not rich people. They are the hard working, middle class, paycheck to paycheck people. What we all have in common is a LOVE of the MODIFIEDS.

And yes, I would be extremely happy if the purse increased and I never had to put another cent into the race.

And ModSquad, no offense taken. I understand what you are saying also.

Jaws
10-28-2011, 08:46 PM
Adding to the purse should, if anything, make Nascar see how pitiful the purse situation is

If I didn't add to the purse ( and I have thought about this), I'd just pick ten drivers I like and sponsor them for the night. Even though, it's only 300 bucks per driver, I do get the feeling that they appreciate it. So if any one is laughing at me for handing over the money and "paying the purse" I don't really care. Because I think it is appreciated.

The people who come up with the extra money for the Riverhead race are not rich people. They are the hard working, middle class, paycheck to paycheck people. What we all have in common is a LOVE of the MODIFIEDS.

And yes, I would be extremely happy if the purse increased and I never had to put another cent into the race.

And ModSquad, no offense taken. I understand what you are saying also.

Jim, you have done great thing for many mod teams and races the last few years. We all appreciate what you do. I know I had a blast last year. It was pretty neat standing in the middle of the infield looking at one of the largest crowds in recent memory filling the track.

But I am afraid NASCAR did not notice and it will be the same purse next year.

JWfor8x
10-29-2011, 03:13 AM
JW, I guess my post came out wrong. I'm not trying to discredit anything LIModManiac or the Cromarty's have done. Far from it. As I said I applaud them for stepping up. My point is look what last place gets paid at any cup race. Never Mind just Daytona. The payout for 43rd in some cases surpasses the entire fields payout in NWMT event. Yes I understand bigger series, TV sponsors, more money spent, bigger venues. I get all of that. The point is the race purses on the NWMT schedule today have stagnated and/or dropped from what they were even 20 years ago. If the fans keep filling the holes up in the purses. What message is that sending to the leadership downsouth? As a side note if I had money to sponsor or drive a car myself I would, unfortunately the US Government doesn't pay me enough, but that's a whole different story. Cheers!

Like Jim said in a previous post, no offense taken. I think I did misunderstand what you wrote. I also agree that it's a shame the way NASCAR has abused the NWMT, the teams who support it and for that matter, the tracks too. That being said though, I don't think that by what Jim and the others who gave to the teams at Riverhead affected the support NASCAR gives, or doesn't give to the tour in any way at all. Cheers to you too.

Acadia
11-06-2011, 06:14 PM
Perhaps this has been lost in the chatter, but why is the purse at Riverhead so small?

Jaws
11-06-2011, 07:18 PM
Perhaps this has been lost in the chatter, but why is the purse at Riverhead so small?

Probably because they have the smallest seating of any track on the tour except maybe Monadnock among other reasons.

RGeeProductions
11-06-2011, 07:39 PM
Considered 'Flash' race and not 'Tour' race???? (Monadnock & Riverhead)

mwf44
11-06-2011, 08:57 PM
F.Y.I. Checked my records & our Gulf Racing #44 with John Blewett III driving won the Miller Lite 200 at Riverhead Raceway on June 12, 1999 and recieved $6,185. Then one year later on June 10, 2000 our MHP Racers #44with Jerry Marquis behind the wheeel won the Miller Lite 200 again at Riverhead Raceway and picked-up $5,275 !!!! Hmmmmm, I see a "definite pattern" forming. TG that I quit one race into the 2001 season or a couple years down the road without Limodmianiac's help I could owe after a Mod Tour win, ha, ha, ha !!! Memories of Riverhead are that it was the toughest of all the tracks we raced at, but the fans were the most appreciative of our efforts. Lots of good times in the pit area after the races into the wee hours of the nite then across the street at I think the Oak something.

Acadia
11-07-2011, 10:35 AM
I grew up on racing at Islip, another itty-bitty track. When I went to Riverhead this summer, it brought back some great memories of Islip, Jarzombek, Anderson, etc. I can't believe there were big events with pit stops in that tiny infield.

But Islip is no more. Freeport is gone.

The unfortunate aspect of all this is that costs go up, and up and up, but seating stays the same. It's an Achilles Heel of these tiny tracks. And racing appeals to a segment that can't simply pay more, and more, and more for entry to a race. Our form of racing needs to promote itself to get more and young fans interested and involved. But we are competing against more modern forms of entertainment and occupation. It going to be tough, but modifieds are awesome, and we have to get the word out. Somebody, come up with smartphone apps and computer games using modified cars. We have to get our series in front of the future. Look around at the track, there aren't that many kids in the stands.

It is awesome and crazy that a couple individuals provide strong financial support for the Riverhead event, but it is also dangerous. The tracks and sanctioning bodies aren't looking to help, they now know that there are those that are addicted and will go to extremes to get their racing fix.

limodmaniac
11-07-2011, 06:38 PM
1. I like to refer to it as sponsoring the drivers/ cars, not adding to the purse. Every level of racing depends on sponsorship. That's what we are doing.

2. I honestly don't think Nascar is looking at what we do and calling us fools for doing it. I honestly think they don't care. I don't think Nascar is going to raise the purse at Monadnock and not raise the purse at Riverhead based on what we are doing. I certanly don't think what we have done is dangerous.

3. We have attempted to do something at Riverhead for 3 years. The first year , only the winner received something. The 2nd and 3rd years, every driver received extra including the non qualifiers. This year we also did lap awards and special awards. And we had fun doing it!

4. Though I am hoping to continue to do this, my racing account is back to zero. It only builds up by saving, saving, saving. And I do depend on my racing friends/family to help me with the goal. There is NO guarantee that we will have enough money saved to do this again. If not, the race goes on without us. If we can do it again, I know the drivers and owners appreciate it. And I know the good feeling I get from it! Don't really care about if others think it is crazy.

Jaws
11-07-2011, 08:13 PM
1. I like to refer to it as sponsoring the drivers/ cars, not adding to the purse. Every level of racing depends on sponsorship. That's what we are doing.

2. I honestly don't think Nascar is looking at what we do and calling us fools for doing it. I honestly think they don't care. I don't think Nascar is going to raise the purse at Monadnock and not raise the purse at Riverhead based on what we are doing. I certanly don't think what we have done is dangerous.

3. We have attempted to do something at Riverhead for 3 years. The first year , only the winner received something. The 2nd and 3rd years, every driver received extra including the non qualifiers. This year we also did lap awards and special awards. And we had fun doing it!

4. Though I am hoping to continue to do this, my racing account is back to zero. It only builds up by saving, saving, saving. And I do depend on my racing friends/family to help me with the goal. There is NO guarantee that we will have enough money saved to do this again. If not, the race goes on without us. If we can do it again, I know the drivers and owners appreciate it. And I know the good feeling I get from it! Don't really care about if others think it is crazy.

Good for you Jim, if doing what you do bothers others thats their problem. There are 33 or 34 teams that sure did appreciate what happened last year. I think you are right, NASCAR and the track will go on without you.

It was neat standing in the infield this summer looking out at the crowd in the stands and knowing in some small way I was part of that.

Keep up the good work and always know there is a small but dedicated group of fans that are right behind you as long as you want to do this.

Remeber only 8 1/2 months until the 2012 Riverhead LImodmaniac 200 race!

MJProcko
11-07-2011, 08:58 PM
150 green flag laps only due to lack of infield pitting

200 if you count caution laps but I wouldn't count the first 3 in order to give cars a chance to get in and out.

I'm sorry, I should have said....
151 green flag laps only due to lack of infield pitting

201 if you count caution laps but I wouldn't count the first 3 in order to give cars a chance to get in and out without losing a lap.

Acadia
11-08-2011, 09:52 AM
Good for you Jim, if doing what you do bothers others thats their problem.


What limodmaniac does doesn't bother me, that it needs to be done is what is bothersome. It would be great if Riverhead, teams, drivers, etc., were supported with good sponsorship and attendance.

Jaws
11-08-2011, 10:51 AM
Jim is A GREAT sponsor.

Acadia
11-08-2011, 11:02 AM
Good as in abundant. Make that lots and lots of sponsorship.

There's no such thing as a bad dollar, just not enough of them.


The east end of Long Island has changed over the years, most of LI has changed. What businesses would benefit from exposure at events at the Riverhead track? Those are the potential track/event sponsors.