1.5 tailpipe rule and vacuum rule?? opinions?

[kmw]

been reading about some of the new topics for possible rule changes, waiting to see what they will be like everyone else,mainly because i wasnt able to complete my car in time to race last year and now am at the point of installing exhaust on my car .
i've read where increasing the vacuum rule to 18.5 or so was said and that seems fair , especially a steady reading, not fluctuating.
the 1.5" tailpipe rule i must say is quite ridiculuos.first off no stock car every came with such a thing especially since these discussions were more focusing on the big cars. references are often made to howie and tim of how their cars are legal and thats great and thats how it should be . having more than the vacuum required . the tailpipe rule is spoken of to slow down or restrict the guys with big motors as i have read. so i'm reading how 2 of our good examples are legal and others are not , so how is the tailpipe rule practical.
lets agree that these are still race cars or atleast cars we race and we all need to comply by the rules . but seriously how is an 1.5 tailpipe even race worthy. guys build v-8s for a reason , not to choke them down.
there are always guys who bend and break rules but there are guys who can comply and run fast as well like tim and howie so why would you want to institute a rule that is both ridiculous and again not stock either?
opinions? come on guys help us out here, heck it looks big diamond even dropped that from their roadrunners rule now and the wall factory stocks are 2.25 ehaust , which was stock. thanks

[richardpetey]

The new "tailpipe rule" probably was instituted because of the experienced enduro peeps who know how to get around the vacuum rule.................:(
These cars consistently pull 17 to 20 inches/Hg vacuum and idle smoothly because the engine was built to do so......................;)
These engines are not very expensive to build and they make good power........................:rolleyes:
Any rule change costs the racer money, so naturally I don't like it......................:disgusted
Wall Stadium F/S rules are a prime example of how rules aimed at equalizing the field have failed!..........................:help:
They mandate things that cost more than using the stock parts/set-up...........................:*-(
But they do prove one of "Uncle Petey's Enduro Commandments": No matter what rules are instituted to equalize the field, the same group of drivers will STILL finish up front..............................:D
UNCLE PETEY...........................:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[kmw]

no doubt people can get around the vacuum rule to a degree but not to the point of a major gain,thats where strict vacuum enforcement or a higher vacuum rule does make sense.,its not rocket science . i agree also how rules fail and strongly agree with how changes always cost us money. just not agreeing and seeing how this rule is practical.
we build v-8 cars to go faster and not to be choked down slower. the rules we have now are great and simple and i just dont see where they are failing us . every race i 've been to with neets , i've yet to see the fastest cars win anyhow . if guys are wining and placing well and their cars arent legal they are dq'd so why the need for a change to unlogical rule?

[richardpetey]

If you look at My-Lap times, many of the fastest cars are winning the races.........................:rolleyes:
Do a little research and you'll see how you can get major engine power gains and still maintain high vacuum at idle................:angel:
I agree, the rule stinks, but somebody, somewhere had to start whining about enduro cars turning into S/S's and hence your new rule....................:disgusted
Don't know, maybe its easier for NEETS to tech the cars..............................:confused:
Like Clint Eastwood said: "Your gonna have to adapt and improvise"............................;)
UNCLE PETEY........................:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[RICK16RACIN]

Well after doing the math a stock 2 1/2 single exhaust will flow 8.95 square , when you double that you get 17.90 square right !! if you cut it down to 1 1/2 inches at the last one foot you get 12.80 so i still would say since most cars came stock with a y pipe and single exhaust for the most part , so with that the motors that are more stock will benifit with the 12.80 ?? Only the big motors will get cut down !! I know that any change is an expense to you guys and the cheapest way to do this is to put the 1 1/2 tips on the exhaust ( $ 20 ) ?? rev limiters ( $95 ) and mandating a specific carb ( $300) and a gear rule ( $200 ) isn`t the way to go for know and raising the vacumm ( $??? ) rule will really cost money and alot if time !!( but a carb or raising the vacumm will be the next step) And i know no one wants that?? This division is going to remain an affordable division !! so lets keep it simple guys ! :confused:

[Easy E]

Yea, You tell'em rick! Hey Rookie, Let me be the first to say, Welcome to neets racing!! Secondly, you just worry about having that car do 100 to 150 laps, with some of the best and brightest drivers in PA and NJ. Take notes!! Do your homework!!

Only 88 days left!

[Philter39]

I agree with Easy E. 1st you have to finish the race. Last season I failed to finish 2 races missed 1 ,11th in points. Year before finished all the races 6 top 5s and 2 11ths won the points. In a totally stock car. I see that a $10-20 exhaust part is the cheapest way to try to level the playing field. As Rick so aptly posts the cost for any other rule change has a much higher cost. We ALL know that some racers/owners/builders will spend way more money then sensible to get an advantage to win a race. Look at the Big Diamond Roadrunners $10,000 cars racing for $200 or so that class started out as a $500 car entry level class. I have been around enduro racing since 1986. And have seen what the over spending did to this class. Slims the field down to near extinction. Billy Bartley brought it back with no nonsense STOCK car rules and Joe and Erin and team have done all they can to try to keep enduro racing AFFORDABLE. That is all we need minimal spending maximum fun. And is that not why we race really? For the fun. And what fun is having to over spend just to be in the same zip code. I am ready to weld on the 1-1/2 " peashooters and lets go racing. phil

[CJfilms]

Remember the point here....

Enduros are meant to be cheap...er... Nowadays, everything is getting more and more expensive, so a $12 part at Autozone that fails in the end only cost you $12... IF we mandated rev limiters this season and everyone spent over $100 and it failed out in the end...you would be out more money.

This is an idea that looks good on paper... We, the officials, are hoping this works out for the most part and IF someone (as in only one person) finds their way around the vacuum rule and the tailpipe, then we have rules that allow us to slow down an overly competitive car....

The rules will be available shortly and until then, ...and afterwards..., there's no use complaining as you ALL had the chance to voice your opinions at the rules meeting.... Some chose not to attend, some had business/family matters that conflicted....those who just chose not to go will ultimately lose out when they want to change something after the fact....

I'm going to post up the rules in the next day or so....the full set...and just create a quick link on the site so everyone can stop asking for them for now.....the full rules pages will be worked on and posted shortly though...

Make sure you ALL read through and take a VERY GOOD OBSERVANT LOOK at the new claim rules...we are NOT CLAIMING CARS in 2012...but, we will claim PARTS for LOW BUCKS....think twice before you throw an over the top $1,000 performance part on the car because it might be claimable for $200 or less....parts will be marked for illegality and resold after the race season; car owner has first dibs!

[CJfilms]

By the way, Phil.....love the pep talk!!! I think I'm having you give the drivers meetings!!!

[glassmanjtf]

I agree with you guys, Worry about your car overheating and gettin a flat. I am sure that all of the people running Neets, Know what they are doing.
Like Phil said we are only racing for fun, so lets have fun this year !! See ya in the winners circle !! :applause: :wave: :angel: Hopefully !!!

[scottrig09]

I installed my 1.5 inch pea shooter on my neets enduro car tonight. now i hope everybody else does the same. i jus have a bad feeling i am gonna be the only one at the race in march at wall stadium with this pea shooter on my car. i talked to photo joe at the motorsports show and he said anybody without it will be dq'ed. the problem is when you talk to guys with factory stocks they nothing about this rule. they say i looked at 2012 neets rules and it didnt say anything about a pea shooter. neets needs to get the word out about this and the no holley carb rule to the factory stock guys.

[Poppop]

:lol:I just finished making a bracket and bolting up my pee shooter. It looks kind of funny but I got it tight to the body so it doesn't get smashed flat like the old tip always did. We'll just have to wait and see who gets to race and who gets to watch!:cheers:

Poppop

[richardpetey]

I agree Scott, hope this series at Wall doesn't go down the tubes because of a "failure to communicate".................:rolleyes:
UNCLE PETEY................:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[NeetsSpectator]

Let the cars without pea shooters race.
They get scored behind all of the cars who have pea shooters.

So if Poppop were the only one there with a pea shooter and completes only 1 lap, he wins the race.

JMO
Sounds like a good idea.

[don38]

My opinion is that this rule will only slow down the whole field. The faster cars will be slower and the slower ones will just get slower. And something that was not discussed is that you restrict exhaust flow something gotta give and that will be motor temps.. How many of you guys/gals that race at grandview on the hot summer days with the mud all over the radiators just make the end of the race without overheating. With the pea shooter rule you will never make the finsh.. ENGING TEMPS WILL GO UP ATLEAST 25 TO 50 degree...

[RICK16RACIN]

I have told all the regular cars that run the Factory Stocks at Wall that have been competing with us about all the rules that will be in effect this race coming , but to make sure i put a post on the Wall board to remind anyone who might be thinking about running this race!! :cool:

[RICK16RACIN]

tail pipe!!
Well after doing the math a stock 2 1/2 single exhaust will flow 8.95 square , when you double that you get 17.90 square right !! if you cut it down to 1 1/2 inches at the last one foot you get 12.80 so i still would say since most cars came stock with a y pipe and single exhaust for the most part , so with that the motors that are more stock will benifit with the 12.80 ?? Only the big motors will get cut down !! I know that any change is an expense to you guys and the cheapest way to do this is to put the 1 1/2 tips on the exhaust ( $ 20 ) ?? rev limiters ( $95 ) and mandating a specific carb ( $300) and a gear rule ( $200 ) isn`t the way to go for know and raising the vacumm ( $??? ) rule will really cost money and alot if time !!( but a carb or raising the vacumm will be the next step) And i know no one wants that?? This division is going to remain an affordable division !! so lets keep it simple guys ! most of the cars who are running close as can be to stock wont have any issues with heat !! we have cars with single exhaust running all the time and they finish !! Bigger compression cars run hot anyway !!??
MR. RICK

[clammer]

Does this rule apply to the 4 cylinders, just asking.

[BIGDADDY64]

amen Rick iam getting tired of reading about this. run as close to stock as possible and all will be good. right?????

[RICK16RACIN]

in less your car is already running an 1 1/2 exhaust , then yes it applies to all !! :wave:

[RICK16RACIN]

Yes Big Daddy you are right !!!;)

[richardpetey]

In the new rules it states all exhaust pipes must have the peashooters...................:rolleyes:
Does this include "Y" pipes? Originally you said "Y" pipes were exempt from this rule...........................:confused:
Just asking before I install an exhaust system.........................:help:
UNCLE PETEY.......................:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[RICK16RACIN]

Yes if you run a single exhaust with a Ypipe that comes together no further then 2 1/2 inches behind the tail shaft of the transmission and continues back and ends as a single pipe no bigger then 2 1/2 inches you do not need a pea shooter tip . ( just remember i want stock configuration , when the pipes join i want a 45 degree angle joining them ) . Joe is putting it in the rules , it was omitted by accident but will be there!! ;)

[richardpetey]

Not to heap too many questions on ya Rick, but whats the deal with the seatbelts?.............................:confused:
The NEETS rules say one thing and the NJ state cops say something else.................:help:
Is it SFI, FIA or belts must not be older than 2 years........................:D
I'm buying new belts, but I'd hate to see a driver/crew have to swithch belts 5 minutes before the race because these a$$holes decided to do a last minute spot check............................................. ...:mad:
BTW, thanks to everybody in the pits who helped me(Vern, Philter, Howie, etc.) and Pat Hires, 2jr, for letting me use his belts in last race.................:cool:
UNCLE PETEY...............................:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[RICK16RACIN]

As of now all cars that run in New Jersey have to have seat belts no older then 2 years no matter what type of belts they are !! We are not gonna be able to do anything anytime soon about it !! sorry we tried ????:disgusted

[racinrob43]

Just a note, if your car was right at the vacuum minimum and you had to put the "pea shooters" on, you better recheck your vacuum. Exhaust restriction will lower vacuum reading.

If your vacuum is not consistent (gauge quickly bouncing), you may have something wrong with 1 or more cylinders (low compression leads to low vacuum).

If you want to take a few minutes to do some reading on the subject, here is a good link:

http://www.linnbenton.edu/auto/perform/vacuum.html

[310fig8]

I called Joe on Daytona Sunday. He said If I do not have Vortex heads then I do NOT NEED Peashooters. I have nothing Vortex at all with my car. AM I LEGAL Rick?????

[Philter39]

Rick is going to say Yes you are legal. I would add as long as your exhaust meets the other criteria.
Long enough, does not point down, and othes. phil

[Erin C]

As long as there is NO Vortec heads you do not need a pea shooter.

[RICK16RACIN]

yes you are legal .

[310fig8]

Great See you Saturday !!

[Mobigsly]

So, you dont need the "neets restrictors" in your not running vortex head?

[RICK16RACIN]

No- you do not need the peashooters if you are not running vortec heads.

[Mobigsly]

thats good. I didn't want to have to redo the exhaust everytime I ran Wall.