2012 licenses

[worm]

driver/owner 350.00 each crew member 295.00 each you can buy on line now for 2012

[SteveS]

Funny how NASCAR lowers what they pay out but they don't reduce the license fees. Maybe they need a occupy NASCAR protest.

[worm]

they went up again this year

[MJProcko]

So am I right in saying a local Maddawg or Riverhead team looking to defend their home turf against the WMT invaders is looking at $1,880 for driver, owner and 4 crew members just for the privilege of approaching the pit gate before any other costs are incurred? On top of the WAAS Nascar license they already pay that keeps the track open week in and week out.

[CynthiaTork]

Don't have to worry about the Monadnock guys. Monadnock is dropping the tour type modifieds, other than the WMT and the MRS shows

[bud]

Not trying to stir the pot but I'm sure I saw somewhere k&n owners are $50 and team members $25. Drivers get in free. ....just kidding BUT it might as well be as its obvious the k&n series is a NASCAR subsidized entity just like the truck series was when it first started. They have "crappy" racing in all 4 of those fendered divisions. Atleast even when nose to tail racing the mods mix it up.....hence all the cautions. Like mike says " pacing ain't racing

[NONCENT$]

I just always thought that its amazing the entertainers of an event actually pay out of pocket, to put on a show for the audience! (Wonder how much Derek Jeter pays to play at Yankee Stadium)?

[uticamike]

Funny how NASCAR lowers what they pay out but they don't reduce the license fees. Maybe they need a occupy NASCAR protest.

No, maybe they need to occupy another Modified series. The MRS and ROC would benefit and with the tire use restrictions the teams would save

money there. The purses suck in every series but maybe it's even time to come up with NE based organization to continue to bring Mod racing to

the northeast fans. If your a Modified fan just what does the brand name NASCAR do for you? Jason...........?

[bud]

No, maybe they need to occupy another Modified series. The MRS and ROC would benefit and with the tire use restrictions the teams would save

money there. The purses suck in every series but maybe it's even time to come up with NE based organization to continue to bring Mod racing to

the northeast fans. If your a Modified fan just what does the brand name NASCAR do for you? Jason...........?

Only thing you loose is the carrot they been dangling infront of you for yrs. Don't forget things change...... I can't wait till the day Burton sees that he can break away...... He's a way better promoter than NASCAR

[catfish]

Who is Burton? What does he promote?

[bud]

That was supposed to be Bruton.......dam Droid....

[RacnJason00]

That was supposed to be Bruton.......dam Droid....


That will happen. NASCAR has killed itself. It's killed the Cup and Nationwide Series. No more short tracks, no bullrings. Bruton will save it and when he does it will be a great day!!

[JMB]

I would not let Bruton Smith or any of his current or former track presidents run a racing series. Operate a race track, absolutely. But in charge of the actual racing going on, no way in the world. He's not going to do it anyway. There was a recent article that shows that the TV money for each Cup race accounts for more then double of what most tracks pay out in purses\sanction fees. No, NASCAR, no TV contract. Plus, the guy is in his 80's and his kid appears to be dumber than Bill France Jr.'s kids.

[Revscott]

That will happen. NASCAR has killed itself. It's killed the Cup and Nationwide Series. No more short tracks, no bullrings. Bruton will save it and when he does it will be a great day!!

No actually if there was a split thats what would kill it. Theres no sponsorship for one series and we want two? If this happened it would be the beginning of the end. Does anyone remember when Indy was popular? Yeah what happened after the split there?

10 years ago it was talked about that Smith was going to break away. If it didnt happen when things were going well. Its definately not going to happen when all the money has dried up and you cant even fill a field with out start and parks.

[NWMT PR]

NWMT
driver-350
owner-350
crew-295

NWSMT
driver-220
owner-220
crew-120

K&N
driver-550
owner-600
crew-400

[NWMT PR]

Not trying to stir the pot but I'm sure I saw somewhere k&n owners are $50 and team members $25. Drivers get in free. ....just kidding BUT it might as well be as its obvious the k&n series is a NASCAR subsidized entity just like the truck series was when it first started. They have "crappy" racing in all 4 of those fendered divisions. Atleast even when nose to tail racing the mods mix it up.....hence all the cautions. Like mike says " pacing ain't racing

I think this is a good time to post my annual audit of the actual statistics of the two series side-by-side. Now I grant you that often on this board I stress not to compare the Modifieds with the East because they're generally two different animals, but if you want to talk about the quality of the racing versus one another, here are some numbers ...


Averages/Race

Margin of Victory
Mod - 0.727
East - 1.586

Average Speed
Mod - 66.915
East - 68.033

Race Leaders
Mod - 3.375
East - 2.917

Lead Changes
Mod - 4.563
East - 3.250

Cautions
Mod - 7.563
East - 6.333

Caution Laps
Mod - 43.625
East - 34.167

Cars on Lead Lap
Mod - 15.313
East - 17.333

DNF
Mod - 6.938
East - 5.000


How you interpret that depends on your point of view. Of the eight categories head-to-head, I'd give the East the advantage 5-3 from a competition standpoint. You can certainly point to more lead changes and a closer margin of victory to justify better racing for the Modifieds, but the East runs slightly cleaner races that result in less caution laps (a common complaint on here of Mod races).

The schedules are fairly balanced (Riverhead vs. Bowman Gray, Bristol vs. Dover, five .5 milers vs. five .4/.5 milers), so I think the comparison works pretty good.

It is also worth noting, only because of the drafting effect that the Mods experience (for which there is no comparable for the East) that if you took the three NHMS races out of the Modified stats that the average race leaders would be 3.154 and average lead changes would be 3.231.

[Acadia]

Good post but off topic. It won't get the attention it deserves buried in a thread on 2012 Licenses. Please start a new thread on that subject (mod vs. east).

[fastbackss]

Good post but off topic. It won't get the attention it deserves buried in a thread on 2012 Licenses. Please start a new thread on that subject (mod vs. east).


Wrong - it is on topic. Please re-read the first few posts in this thread. Someone brought up the East vs. NWMT lic. costs.


And Jason - thank you for posting the specifics.

-Mike

[Acadia]

How does this...


I think this is a good time to post my annual audit of the actual statistics of the two series side-by-side. Now I grant you that often on this board I stress not to compare the Modifieds with the East because they're generally two different animals, but if you want to talk about the quality of the racing versus one another, here are some numbers ...


Averages/Race

Margin of Victory
Mod - 0.727
East - 1.586

Average Speed
Mod - 66.915
East - 68.033

Race Leaders
Mod - 3.375
East - 2.917

Lead Changes
Mod - 4.563
East - 3.250

Cautions
Mod - 7.563
East - 6.333

Caution Laps
Mod - 43.625
East - 34.167

Cars on Lead Lap
Mod - 15.313
East - 17.333

DNF
Mod - 6.938
East - 5.000


How you interpret that depends on your point of view. Of the eight categories head-to-head, I'd give the East the advantage 5-3 from a competition standpoint. You can certainly point to more lead changes and a closer margin of victory to justify better racing for the Modifieds, but the East runs slightly cleaner races that result in less caution laps (a common complaint on here of Mod races).

The schedules are fairly balanced (Riverhead vs. Bowman Gray, Bristol vs. Dover, five .5 milers vs. five .4/.5 milers), so I think the comparison works pretty good.

It is also worth noting, only because of the drafting effect that the Mods experience (for which there is no comparable for the East) that if you took the three NHMS races out of the Modified stats that the average race leaders would be 3.154 and average lead changes would be 3.231.


have anything to do with 2012 licenses?

fastbacks posted:
Wrong - it is on topic. Please re-read the first few posts in this thread. Someone brought up the East vs. NWMT lic. costs.

Well? How does cars on lead lap have anything to do with 2012 licenses?

Well??? Nothing. A contrast of cautions, caution laps, lead changes, etc. has nothing to do with license fees.

What is the thread title? "2012 Licenses" What is the relevance of 2012 licenses with an annual contrast of cautions, cautions laps, lead changes, etc? None.

fastbackss, please explain how the margin of victory difference between the mods and the K&N east has anything to do with 2012 licenses. I'm looking forward to it. Actually, go through the complete list provided by NWMT PR and show the relationship between each one of those metrics and the relevance to 2012 licenses. Remember, the thread subject, and title, is 2012 licenses.

LOL

NWMT PR, your annual comparison is a good one. It can lead to great discussion on the apparent disparities between East and Mod series, and perhaps how we can get more visibility and sponsorship to the mods. But it will be better with its own thread. I wouldn't go looking for a thread titled "2012 Licenses" to read about a race metric comparison like you did.

Of the 2,252 NWMT laps last season, there were 121 cautions, 1,563 racing laps and 689 non-racing laps. That's 69% racing laps. Almost a third of the season was non-racing. Six events were over 40% non-racing laps. And that has nothing to do with 2012 licenses.

Can we stay on topic this year? If you want to start another topic, start another thread.

[fastbackss]

I will tell you how! Ok, I can't. Because one post was on page 1 and the next on page 2, somehow only the first one showed up - the one that had the licence costs. So, I apologise.

[RGeeProductions]

That would be up to a moderator to decide Acadia.
No harm, no foul, YET, here, so straying a bit with many posting and following is not a big deal.

[bud]

So 5-3 why the 10 times plus difference in point fund money????? Give me a break....lol Kyle led almost all the laps in the truck race at Louden. There is no way you can justify the difference. One other thing, while I admit the mods need to clean up thier act (cautions wise) if they want TV coverage, if you take into account open wheels verses fenders and the fact that the K&N guys are kinda candy butts at close quarters racing, the caution lap thing really doesnt come into play. Seriously, the last K&N race at Stafford kinda proved the mod guys have them covered. Ted would have won that race if Juan Valdez or what ever his name was hadn't waited on Ted on the last lap. Its pretty bad when a mod guy in a Ted Marsh car kicks DEI, Joe Gibbs, RCR and Everham's butts in his only start of the yr......lol. I mean come on lol there is no real comparison. Might add Juan Valdez never got a penalty either. Go ahead NASCAR PR spin a story on that. I mean we all admit Teddy is not an average driver but............. So Im thinking if we had DEI, Gibbs, and Everham cars in the mod ranks (obviously encouraged by the brain trust in Daytona) the mods would get a better point fund????? Yup we'll leave out Louden too.....heck they don't even want them (K&N) back. Give me a break .... Yep I'm a jerk. If NASCAR wanted a true car of tomorrow they would have taken a step back to thier roots and there would be no seven posts. Just wide tires, nerf bars and balls big enough you need a wheel barrel to carry them in! THESE OPINIONS IN NO WAY RELFECT THE THOUGHTS OF THE OWNERS OF THE CRHOME HORN OR ANY OF THE LOYAL OPEN WHEEL MEMBERS.........LOL
BTW Jason I realize you are probably a really good guy and they pay you to defend them. Just wanna make sure you realize none of this is ment to be taken personal.

[Magicshoes12]

So 5-3 why the 10 times plus difference in point fund money????? Give me a break....lol Kyle led almost all the laps in the truck race at Louden. There is no way you can justify the difference. One other thing, while I admit the mods need to clean up thier act (cautions wise) if they want TV coverage, if you take into account open wheels verses fenders and the fact that the K&N guys are kinda candy butts at close quarters racing, the caution lap thing really doesnt come into play. Seriously, the last K&N race at Stafford kinda proved the mod guys have them covered. Ted would have won that race if Juan Valdez or what ever his name was hadn't waited on Ted on the last lap. Its pretty bad when a mod guy in a Ted Marsh car kicks DEI, Joe Gibbs, RCR and Everham's butts in his only start of the yr......lol. I mean come on lol there is no real comparison. Might add Juan Valdez never got a penalty either. Go ahead NASCAR PR spin a story on that. I mean we all admit Teddy is not an average driver but............. So Im thinking if we had DEI, Gibbs, and Everham cars in the mod ranks (obviously encouraged by the brain trust in Daytona) the mods would get a better point fund????? Yup we'll leave out Louden too.....heck they don't even want them (K&N) back. Give me a break .... Yep I'm a jerk. If NASCAR wanted a true car of tomorrow they would have taken a step back to thier roots and there would be no seven posts. Just wide tires, nerf bars and balls big enough you need a wheel barrel to carry them in! THESE OPINIONS IN NO WAY RELFECT THE THOUGHTS OF THE OWNERS OF THE CRHOME HORN OR ANY OF THE LOYAL OPEN WHEEL MEMBERS.........LOL
BTW Jason I realize you are probably a really good guy and they pay you to defend them. Just wanna make sure you realize none of this is ment to be taken personal.

Modifieds have a cup owner in their series, Tommy had two drivers in Rudolph and Santos under the HBR development.

Also just a pet peeve its spelled Loudon not Louden

As far as the comparison with the Modifieds and the East Series, the stats are pretty cool to see, would be interesting to see how they compared when they use to run twin 150's and stuff back in the 90's when two series supported each other.

My only thought about the licenses and the purse and points fund, if it is really that bad and all of these owners/drivers/crew members complain about it, why do they keep coming back? Nascar doesn't have the only Modified Touring Series, This is no way a plug for the MRS but I go to both and they are both great in their own way. By the way some people are talking about the point fund and license cost and the purses why not just leave instead of keep coming back to complain. It would be like putting your hand on a Wood Stove, you put your hand on it and get burned are you going to put your hand back on it over and over again and complain that its to hot? Oh and in case you didn't know there is only 86 days until the green flag Drops at Thompson!

[Acadia]

NWMT
driver-350
owner-350
crew-295

NWSMT
driver-220
owner-220
crew-120

K&N
driver-550
owner-600
crew-400


Really, why the difference? That's a huge disparity.

[Bob T. Racer]

Really, why the difference? That's a huge disparity.

Why? Because the north makes pit stops during the race. NASCAR wants to make sure that Hoosier isn't the only one that can make money off pit stops, right Jason?

[bud]

Why does a man Chase a woman that is no good for him.....love and excitement....lol. everyone knows he getting used but him. Repeat after me.....loudon loudon loudon.....loldone.......if the economy dosent improve it will bee k& been d

[NWMT PR]

Really, why the difference? That's a huge disparity.

Arcadia,
Think about the license fees of one series versus another, then compare that to all of the other ways money becomes involved in other series, both in costs and in earnings, for all parties involved. The national series licenses are incrementally higher from one to the next, just like from weekly up to the different tours.

Your point about moving the East vs. Mod comparison to a separate thread was valid. I only included it here as a direct response to Bud's contention that the Mod competition was so much better than racing in the East.
Quoting Bud:

So 5-3 why the 10 times plus difference in point fund money????? Give me a break....lol Kyle led almost all the laps in the truck race at Louden. There is no way you can justify the difference. One other thing, while I admit the mods need to clean up thier act (cautions wise) if they want TV coverage, if you take into account open wheels verses fenders and the fact that the K&N guys are kinda candy butts at close quarters racing, the caution lap thing really doesnt come into play. Seriously, the last K&N race at Stafford kinda proved the mod guys have them covered. Ted would have won that race if Juan Valdez or what ever his name was hadn't waited on Ted on the last lap. Its pretty bad when a mod guy in a Ted Marsh car kicks DEI, Joe Gibbs, RCR and Everham's butts in his only start of the yr......lol. I mean come on lol there is no real comparison. Might add Juan Valdez never got a penalty either. Go ahead NASCAR PR spin a story on that. I mean we all admit Teddy is not an average driver but............. So Im thinking if we had DEI, Gibbs, and Everham cars in the mod ranks (obviously encouraged by the brain trust in Daytona) the mods would get a better point fund????? Yup we'll leave out Louden too.....heck they don't even want them (K&N) back. Give me a break .... Yep I'm a jerk. If NASCAR wanted a true car of tomorrow they would have taken a step back to thier roots and there would be no seven posts. Just wide tires, nerf bars and balls big enough you need a wheel barrel to carry them in! THESE OPINIONS IN NO WAY RELFECT THE THOUGHTS OF THE OWNERS OF THE CRHOME HORN OR ANY OF THE LOYAL OPEN WHEEL MEMBERS.........LOL
BTW Jason I realize you are probably a really good guy and they pay you to defend them. Just wanna make sure you realize none of this is ment to be taken personal.

Bud,
I don't take your rants personally, but I have to admit you frustrate me because you shotgun out these blasts of multiple points and I never know where to start. :rolleyes:

I'm not going to go through all of this one, but here are a few ...

point fund:
Lets's start with dispelling this myth, and one that is going to kill LIMM's main talking point ... there is no million dollar point fund for K&N. It is much less than that, total, between East and West combined. It is, however, approximately three times the total point fund for the NWMT. Now when you consider that they haul all over the eastern U.S., I would hope that you would all agree that they should get more of a point fund just to compensate for the travel alone.

"candy butts":
You made a good point about comparing fenders versus fenderless, then invalidated it with an unfounded opinion about a percieved lack of aggressiveness by East drivers.

last Stafford East race:
It was actually Peyton Sellers that spun out Christopher. I won't get into the inconsiderate reference to a minority driver.

Considering the experience that TC has overall, and especially at Stafford, I think it would be fairly safe to say that he would have had the upper hand in that race whether it was his first one in that series that year or not. Ted Marsh certainly brings solid equipment that is respected throughout the racing community, so combine that with TC's skills, and it would be no surprise that he had the field covered. And while it had been a few years since he ran regularly in the series, Kobyluck was probably the only driver in the field that day that had more career East starts than him, so its not like it was an unproven guy getting behind the wheel and smoking a bunch of fendered veterans.

And while I'm one this topic, even though Bud didn't bring this point of it up ... but good thing the series didn't go back to Stafford because there sure wasn't any talent in that race. Only TC, Kobyluck, Sellers (a past Whelen All-American Series national champ), Trevor Bayne (Daytona 500 winner, and so on), Austin Dillon (2011 Truck champ), Ricky Carmichael (Truck veteran), Kevin Swindell (3x Chili Bowl champ), Mike Olsen (2x East champ), Ryan Truex (2x East champ), Steve Park (you know him), and others.

Bud ... you seem to be so set in your pre-determined ways that I don't know why I bother, but hey, I respect your pasion. I hope that we can continue to deliver a good NWMT product so that you keep caring.

[MJProcko]

The last Stafford race for the K&N series problem was not who was in the event or even the quality of racing. It was the suits coming into the Fall Final and sticking it in the face of the mods by pushing the modifieds off the top bill and sticking the K&N race on TV but not the modifieds. They didn't even record the race for a later broadcast, not only not a good use of resources since everyting was already in place but it's a slap in the face of Whelen also. Well atleast in the suits eyes they were top billing anyways, everyone else knew what the crowd was there for. Many of us warned on here back then when the race was annouced of the backlash Nascar would face because of it. But what do we know, we just buy the tickets, buy the 'official widget of Nascar' products and love modifieds.

I know Nascar feels they are being malaigned here and NWMT PR is stuck doing damage control but it is not that at all. What you are seeing is extremely passionate race fans who are frustrated because they see what is possible with just a minimal effort out of Nascar.

[Acadia]

Well said on all points. And now I am wondering why do we modified fans compare our series to any other. It is really a very different car. A car only a hard core racer can appreciate. Where else do you get those headers, tires and low CG? Ain't nuthin' like it!

Several years ago at a Loudon race, I think Ned Jarret and DW were doing the TV announcing for the Cup cars on Saturday activity and they mentioned that they were going to cut out so they can go watch the modifieds and they were excited to do so. They made it clear that the mods were awesome cars at Loudon. That was the best and only press I've heard about mods. On these weekends where the mods run with the trucks, NW and Cup cars, NASCAR would be doing a great service for the mod series if it were to talk up the mods on TV that weekend and simply acknowledge the existence of the mods at these events in the media. The major media only covers top three series, ignoring the mods. So during the airing of NW, truck and Cup activity, would it really be that much to also discuss the mods? And with that exposure, it can also be mentioned that these cars (the mods) can be seen as a touring series and weekly series at a local track near you. Is that really too much? It's too obvious and too simple.



The last Stafford race for the K&N series problem was not who was in the event or even the quality of racing. It was the suits coming into the Fall Final and sticking it in the face of the mods by pushing the modifieds off the top bill and sticking the K&N race on TV but not the modifieds. They didn't even record the race for a later broadcast, not only not a good use of resources since everyting was already in place but it's a slap in the face of Whelen also. Well atleast in the suits eyes they were top billing anyways, everyone else knew what the crowd was there for. Many of us warned on here back then when the race was annouced of the backlash Nascar would face because of it. But what do we know, we just buy the tickets, buy the 'official widget of Nascar' products and love modifieds.

I know Nascar feels they are being malaigned here and NWMT PR is stuck doing damage control but it is not that at all. What you are seeing is extremely passionate race fans who are frustrated because they see what is possible with just a minimal effort out of Nascar.

[limodmaniac]

point fund:
Lets's start with dispelling this myth, and one that is going to kill LIMM's main talking point ... there is no million dollar point fund for K&N. It is much less than that, total, between East and West combined. It is, however, approximately three times the total point fund for the NWMT. Now when you consider that they haul all over the eastern U.S., I would hope that you would all agree that they should get more of a point fund just to compensate for the travel alone.

.


Cool.. i'm getting mentioned in a post I didn't even comment on!

So what is the actual point fund for the K and N East Series and what is the point fund for the Whelen Tour and what is the point fund for the Southern Whelen Tour?

And you know , I don't really think that because "they haul all over the eastern U.S" they should get more of a point fund just to compensate for the travel alone.

Maybe being NASCAR's oldest division, the modifieds should get a higher point fund! Maybe because the truck series and the K and N series have come in more recently and get the higher purses and the tv exposure and the modifieds get passed by, the passionate modified fans get ticked off!

I think it's a disgrace that a track like Bowman Gray pays out a huge purse to the K and N and pays out a pitiful purse to the Southern Whelen Tour.

Can't wait to see the purse for Rockingham's double feature. Rockingham is probably hoping some northern teams are coming down for that one. Wonder if they will be compensated for the travel.

I am nothing but a huge fan of the modifieds. I would not go to a K and N race if you paid me!

There's so much injustice in all of this that I don't know why I even wasted my time writing this. It won't matter!

[JMB]

Cool.. i'm getting mentioned in a post I didn't even comment on!

There's so much injustice in all of this that I don't know why I even wasted my time writing this. It won't matter!

Because you complain about everything?

[bud]

Nope thats me.....lol. BTW. did NASCAR PR say TEDDY was the greatest of all time? Sure sounded that way to me. Who did he stomp till sellers dumped him? BTW what has Sellers or who ever he was done since?

[Acadia]

Thanks for the reply, but I do not have the details on all the ways and magnitudes that money becomes involved in all the series, hence the question as to the differences in the NWMT and NSWMT License fees.

Hard to think that the fee for a NSWMT license can be so much less than a NWMT license.

BTW, I spell my name correctly.


Arcadia,
Think about the license fees of one series versus another, then compare that to all of the other ways money becomes involved in other series, both in costs and in earnings, for all parties involved. The national series licenses are incrementally higher from one to the next, just like from weekly up to the different tours.

Your point about moving the East vs. Mod comparison to a separate thread was valid. I only included it here as a direct response to Bud's contention that the Mod competition was so much better than racing in the East.
Quoting Bud:

[Magicshoes12]

Nope thats me.....lol. BTW. did NASCAR PR say TEDDY was the greatest of all time? Sure sounded that way to me. Who did he stomp till sellers dumped him? BTW what has Sellers or who ever he was done since?


Since 2008 and his race win at Stafford Peyton Sellers has...

10 Nationwide Starts with $171,625.00 in Winnings
5 Truck Starts with $37,225.00 in Winnings
2 Arca Starts
and Various Late Model races

I would be happy with that


Also I do not agree with you that Jason said TEDDY was the greatest of all time. I'm not a TC fan but you give that guy a car with good or even mediocre equipment at Stafford of course he will be the hardest to beat, Up to that race in 2008 TC had 102 Career Wins @ Stafford Alone, Now going into the 2012 Season he has a Total or 114 Career Wins at Stafford. While I guarantee you in the Busch East race in 2008 you could take the rest of the field combined and their starts would equal TC's career wins at Stafford. Simply the fact that the guy was in good equipment that day and at HIS track he should have the field covered, by no way is he the greatest but for sure he was definitely the greatest @ Stafford in the field of cars he was in, in that race!

[Teds Race Tours]

Because you complain about everything?

I hope that was a friendly jab, because there is NOBODY who does more for the Modifieds than Jim.

[Acadia]

Get your eyes checked, or something.

I'm not seeing where NASCAR PR said anybody was the greatest of all time. :p


Nope thats me.....lol. BTW. did NASCAR PR say TEDDY was the greatest of all time? Sure sounded that way to me. Who did he stomp till sellers dumped him? BTW what has Sellers or who ever he was done since?

[NWMT PR]

Acadia,
I apologize for previously spelling your alias wrong, multiple times I guess.

Lincense fees increase all the way up the ladder from Whelen All-American Series to Sprint Cup, as do point funds, race purses, etc. But like point funds and purses, I can't break down on here the reasons why licenses are different prices. That's just the way it has to be. The economics of the sports is information that is available to NASCAR members/license holders.


The last Stafford race for the K&N series problem was not who was in the event or even the quality of racing. It was the suits coming into the Fall Final and sticking it in the face of the mods by pushing the modifieds off the top bill and sticking the K&N race on TV but not the modifieds. They didn't even record the race for a later broadcast, not only not a good use of resources since everyting was already in place but it's a slap in the face of Whelen also. Well atleast in the suits eyes they were top billing anyways, everyone else knew what the crowd was there for. Many of us warned on here back then when the race was annouced of the backlash Nascar would face because of it. But what do we know, we just buy the tickets, buy the 'official widget of Nascar' products and love modifieds.

I know Nascar feels they are being malaigned here and NWMT PR is stuck doing damage control but it is not that at all. What you are seeing is extremely passionate race fans who are frustrated because they see what is possible with just a minimal effort out of Nascar.

I don't know who the suits were at that race, because I wasn't aware of any. ... The Modified race ran after the East race, so I think it remained clear that the Mods were the show. ... The East TV deal that year was with HD Net, which had no other association with NASCAR, especially not with the Modified Tour, so there was no leverage there to get the Modified race recorded. ... And the East raced at Stafford 28 times prior to the 2008 race, so again I'm not sure I get your point about warning that there would be backlash, the series and the track had quite a history.

The point he brings up here about TV is one that I often see in this forum, and at face value he makes some sense. I certainly get your point, however, it is much more than just saying "the cameras are already there, why aren't they recording?" The associated costs are quite significant. Staffing, satellite time, different networks, available air dates, etc., all are factors.

Have a good weekend everyone.
Jason

[bud]

Big a .... Re read that.....500 winner and on and on....lol. simply THE BEST! BTW it wasn't the winner that spun Ted out it was the 15 car with some bush league bowman grey move.wasn't even on the same lap..... Oh well where is he now. (Ps I do joke a bit....)

[NWMT PR]

I was able to gather some further info on this topic ...

NWAAS upgrade to NWMT or NWSMT
An NWAAS drivers license holder has to upgrade to a NWMT or NWSMT drivers license to compete in a Tour race. The upgrade fee from an NWAAS Feature Division 1 drivers license would be $160 for NWMT and $30 for NWSMT. The upgrade fees would be exactly the same for the car owner, which would also be required to compete in one or more races.

An NWAAS crew member can crew for up to two NWMT or NWSMT races before they have to upgrade to a Tour crew license. The upgrade fee from an NWAAS crew license would be $200 for NWMT and $25 for NWSMT.

NWSMT upgrade to NWMT
An NWSMT drivers license holder can compete in one NWMT event on their NWSMT before an upgrade is required. The upgrade fee from a NWSMT drivers license to a NWMT drivers license would be $130. The exact same guidelines and fees apply for an NWSMT owner.

An NWSMT crew license holder can crew NWMT races without restriction or requirement to upgrade, and vice versa.

NWMT competing in NWSMT
A NWMT drivers license holder can compete in up to two NWSMT races using their NWMT license. Beyond two events, the NWMT driver must buy a separate NWSMT drivers license to compete in further NWSMT races. The exact same regulations apply to car owners.


I hope that clears up some things for everyone.

thanks,
Jason C.

[Rentawrench]

After watching "Kenny Wallace Road to Daytona" I guess we should be Glad at our LOW fees. Kenny had to get a "Gold" license at a cost of $8,000.00. Up from last years $3,000.00 Now I understand thats a Hard card were the Insurance fees an pit fees included.

In a time that they have been asking us( the competors) to take a cut, they also increased the Nationwide entry fees $10,000.00 for the year. (Based on the season total)


Looking for a Sponsor for Daytona 2013 2500 mile round trip-@5 mpg an $5.00 a gal = $2500.00
room for week ( Sun to Mon) at 500 race weekend rates & tell me where has a few hundred rooms for the Three divisions running.
A new job because we need time off in Feb now.

But I know some of the BIG spenders Like Big A its Pocketchange,So Help the teams out your name will be on TV ( sometime/somewhere)

[MJProcko]

I was able to gather some further info on this topic ...

NWAAS upgrade to NWMT or NWSMT
An NWAAS drivers license holder has to upgrade to a NWMT or NWSMT drivers license to compete in a Tour race. The upgrade fee from an NWAAS Feature Division 1 drivers license would be $160 for NWMT and $30 for NWSMT. The upgrade fees would be exactly the same for the car owner, which would also be required to compete in one or more races.

An NWAAS crew member can crew for up to two NWMT or NWSMT races before they have to upgrade to a Tour crew license. The upgrade fee from an NWAAS crew license would be $200 for NWMT and $25 for NWSMT.



So am I getting this right..... if I was weekly racer at Stafford, suppoting the track each and every week, Nascar would charge me more to hold the gas can at a WMT events than to actually drive the car?

[Bob T. Racer]

[QUOTE=NWMT PR;173765]I was able to gather some further info on this topic ...

NWAAS upgrade to NWMT or NWSMT
An NWAAS drivers license holder has to upgrade to a NWMT or NWSMT drivers license to compete in a Tour race. The upgrade fee from an NWAAS Feature Division 1 drivers license would be $160 for NWMT and $30 for NWSMT. The upgrade fees would be exactly the same for the car owner, which would also be required to compete in one or more races.

An NWAAS crew member can crew for up to two NWMT or NWSMT races before they have to upgrade to a Tour crew license. The upgrade fee from an NWAAS crew license would be $200 for NWMT and $25 for NWSMT.

QUOTE]

So am I getting this right..... if I was weekly racer at Stafford, suppoting the track each and every week, Nascar would charge me more to hold the gas can at a WMT events than to actually drive the car?

Welcome to NASCAR. From their logic, you should get a refund if you have a NWMT licence and then go help a NWSMT team. I guess not,huh?

[NWMT PR]

So am I getting this right..... if I was weekly racer at Stafford, suppoting the track each and every week, Nascar would charge me more to hold the gas can at a WMT events than to actually drive the car?

An NWAAS crew member can work up to two (2) NWMT or NWSMT races before they have to upgrade. NWAAS drivers and owners have to buy a license before they can compete at all in a NWMT or NWSMT race.

So technically, no, it wouldn't cost more. An NWAAS license and a NWMT upgrade for a driver would be a total of $350. If an NWAAS crew member worked up to two NWMT races they would remain at $95 for the crew license. Only if the NWAAS crew member worked more than two NWMT races would they need to upgrade to the $295 license. As previously mentioned, these fees are all less for NWSMT.

So that being said, crew members of local teams at Riverhead, Waterford or Monadnock do not have to upgrade to compete when the Tour comes to town, and that's why the two race courtesy is in place. But if you're at Stafford or Thompson and want to crew all of the races there, then you're looking at more than a quarter of the season, that's more than just a moonlight.

[Bob T. Racer]

An NWAAS crew member can work up to two (2) NWMT or NWSMT races before they have to upgrade. NWAAS drivers and owners have to buy a license before they can compete at all in a NWMT or NWSMT race.

So technically, no, it wouldn't cost more. An NWAAS license and a NWMT upgrade for a driver would be a total of $350. If an NWAAS crew member worked up to two NWMT races they would remain at $95 for the crew license. Only if the NWAAS crew member worked more than two NWMT races would they need to upgrade to the $295 license. As previously mentioned, these fees are all less for NWSMT.

So that being said, crew members of local teams at Riverhead, Waterford or Monadnock do not have to upgrade to compete when the Tour comes to town, and that's why the two race courtesy is in place. But if you're at Stafford or Thompson and want to crew all of the races there, then you're looking at more than a quarter of the season, that's more than just a moonlight.

You're right Jason, it is more than just a moonlight, it's a joke. That's why tour teams have no pit crews for the most part, because NASCAR keeps raping them.I'm surprised they haven't been arrested for rape yet! But NASCAR thinks it's the law, so i guess it's O.K. with them.

[stabone]

NWMT competing in NWSMT
A NWMT drivers license holder can compete in up to two NWSMT races using their NWMT license. Beyond two events, the NWMT driver must buy a separate NWSMT drivers license to compete in further NWSMT races. The exact same regulations apply to car owners.


I hope that clears up some things for everyone.

This one blows my mind.......You allready pay double for Wmt License then WSMT license...... so you run more then 2 NWSMT racse you have to buy another one!??!?! ....hmmmm....What about when Ryan Newman runs 3 WMT races does he have to buy WMT license?? Bet he doesnt.....

[Bob T. Racer]

NWMT competing in NWSMT
A NWMT drivers license holder can compete in up to two NWSMT races using their NWMT license. Beyond two events, the NWMT driver must buy a separate NWSMT drivers license to compete in further NWSMT races. The exact same regulations apply to car owners.


I hope that clears up some things for everyone.

This one blows my mind.......You allready pay double for Wmt License then WSMT license...... so you run more then 2 NWSMT racse you have to buy another one!??!?! ....hmmmm....What about when Ryan Newman runs 3 WMT races does he have to buy WMT license?? Bet he doesnt.....

That brings up another interesting point. Speaking of points, if you buy both licences like the Hills did, they were then told by NASCAR in the combination races they could only run for points in one or the other and not both. WHY NOT????? They'll take there money for both, but no points for both. Does anybody know where i can board the NASCAR money train???