Today's Thompson Finish

[RacnJason00]

First of all I wasn't there but I did follow the Horn and Twitter with reports from Shawn C and here are my thoughts and I welcome yours...


So here is my thought on the race today at Thompson International Speedway and the outcome of the NASCAR Whelen Modified Tour race. So its simple. If there is a yellow on lap 135 of a 150 lap race leaders sets the pace and needs to be first to the line. How frigging hard is that.. It would also be better for the fans. There isn;t a NASCAR Whelen Southern Modified Tour or NASCAR Whelen Modified Tour team out there that I dislike. I like everyone. But if its GWC there shoudn't be a rule like this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats my opion and I would like to hear yours..


PS . Why the hell was today's race a Demo Derby????

[Sicklajoie]

Sure “rules are rules” but the fact of the matter is the restart rules stink. The Tour needs to quit trying to be like the Cup Series. No matter if the leader spins his tires, misses a shift, or is just plain asleep on a restart, he always seems to get the benefit of the doubt. It shouldn’t be that way. Restarts are a part of racing, whatever happens happens and just let it go, period end of discussion. The boos spoke volumes of what the fans thought about the way NASCAR handled the end of the race. Just let the racers race!!!

[RacnJason00]

sure “rules are rules” but the fact of the matter is the restart rules stink. The tour needs to quit trying to be like the cup series. No matter if the leader spins his tires, misses a shift, or is just plain asleep on a restart, he always seems to get the benefit of the doubt. It shouldn’t be that way. Restarts are a part of racing, whatever happens happens and just let it go, period end of discussion. The boos spoke volumes of what the fans thought about the way nascar handled the end of the race. Just let the racers race!!!

well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rim runner]

Well I was there and here are a few of my opinions:

1) Pennick got hosed a couple of times by "offical's calls".
2) There were a couple of big wrecks (caused by back markers), while 80% of the cautions were minor spins. Most of the carnage happened when Chew was dumped going into turn 1 - I wouldn't call that a demo derby.
3) Wade Cole needs to find a new hobby - lower car counts or not, a slow poke like him shouldn't be screwing up the final laps for the front runners.

[MJProcko]

I think I'll wait for Nascar to release the video before I make a comment.... oh wait, Nascar doesn't broadcast WMT events..... wasn't even on the Home tracks radio..... too bad because the stands were packed from the photos I've seen. just sad.

[nflobster]

i give props to wade. a top ten and on the lead lap. couldn't have been all that slow.....

[JMB]

I don't think they could have instituted the "can't beat the leader to the line" rule until after they made up the rule for the Cup series. I am pretty sure I remember WMT and Busch North races where some of the official lead changes NASCAR counted were from the second place car beating the leader to the line on restarts.

[DaFingz]

i give props to wade. a top ten and on the lead lap. couldn't have been all that slow.....

Agreed. I have a hardtime discrediting a man who has the most underfunded team, travels to damn near all the races and somehow managed a top 10 while finishing on the lead lap. There are plenty of driver's in far better equipment who don't know how to get out of the way either.

[Linda]

Agreed. I have a hardtime discrediting a man who has the most underfunded team, travels to damn near all the races and somehow managed a top 10 while finishing on the lead lap. There are plenty of driver's in far better equipment who don't know how to get out of the way either.

THANK YOU :applause: DaFingz and Nflobster!!! I really wanted to respond to that previous post but I respect this forum and didn't want to cause an argument. ANYONE who knows Wade knows that it's not a "hobby" but a passion for the love of racing AND the Tour!!! He's an awesome guy who works very hard with the limited funds he has. If you read Polly and Denise's article you will see he had a steering problem and that's why he spun a few times.

[Sicklajoie]

I saw this posted elsewhere.
http://youtu.be/IlBBP8cWiUk?t=13m21s

[RacnJason00]

I saw this posted elsewhere.
http://youtu.be/IlBBP8cWiUk?t=13m21s

Pennick got the Shaft hard.. Unfortunate

[csammy]

i respect wade cole as a driver i even root for him during the race and hope he does well he does alot with very little money i read pollys article how ever if he was having a bad steering problem to the effect that it would cause him to spin out then he was a danger to himself and the other drivers and he should of parked the car

[WEEZER]

Hey Racenjacen, I see your boy William made the cover of Area Auto the hard way, looks like ernie has his work cut out for him.

[MOD JUNKIE]

From seeing this Silk spun his tires on restart and Pennick took off, Pennick should have won.

[BBL]

The win should have been Rowans...he really got screwed

[NWMT PR]

Sure “rules are rules” but the fact of the matter is the restart rules stink. The Tour needs to quit trying to be like the Cup Series. No matter if the leader spins his tires, misses a shift, or is just plain asleep on a restart, he always seems to get the benefit of the doubt. It shouldn’t be that way. Restarts are a part of racing, whatever happens happens and just let it go, period end of discussion. The boos spoke volumes of what the fans thought about the way NASCAR handled the end of the race. Just let the racers race!!!

A couple of points that are part of the reason why the restart rule is the way it is ...

The touring series went to double file restarts before the national series did, and we had our own restart rules at that time. When the national series went to double-file restarts, they had their own set of rules (no passing, leader leads at the line). What we found out in the time that the touring and national series had different rules is that there was confusion from the drivers, media and fans on the difference between the two. One touring driver restarted a race one time in the lead thinking it was national rules, got all messed up, then expressed confusion after the race. Thus, the move to sync the touring and national series restart procedure was in part due to simplifying things for everyone involved.

One other justification for the change from the previous rule to the current rule is that when pulling out of line and passing was allowed before the start/finish line, the result was a number of wrecks in Turn 4 and on the frontstretch before the field could even get going again. The current procedure at least allows for the field to get further down the frontstrech and more up to speed before passing is allowed.

[bud]

Hmmmm Massy/Pennink. MRS supporters. Dont see a pattern here. BTW from the looks of it theMRS may have larger fields soon. Be inteeesting to see how Todd does at mad dog sat.

[SUfan]

Let's not go there. First- Chad had nothing to do with the Masse call. He wasn't even in the tower when that call was made. This restart was an entirely different set of circumstances. It's the rule that is the problem. It needs to be changed back for the Modifieds. Chad has been the best when it comes to allowing drivers to race wherever they want to race outside of the WMT. Todd likely would have run a weekly Mod race at Monadnock instead if there was one to go to.

[JEFF]

First of all i was there. Silk started before Rowan and spun the tires. Yes Rowan did beat Silk to the line. But when Silk spun the tires all rules should be off. Just watch the video there is no way Rowan jumped the start. It was just a terrible call.

[csammy]

nwmt pr still waiting for an answear on restarts you did not adress the issue of the leader spinning his tires getting side ways does that mean that the rest of the field must slow down wait for the leader to get his car streight and then step on the gas or can he lead the field down to the green at a snails pace cross the start line and then gun it and the rest of the field has to wait cause thats how i interperate your ruling on sundays restart but then again a precident has been set years ago when the leader tom baldwin spun out on the green flag did a dounut in the infield and then was reinstated as the leader of the race of which he went on to win

[BigMac]

Let the boys race. The second place car should be allowed to race the leader to the line as long as the leader initiated the start. The whole cat and mouse game between the front two cars is part of the excitment. If they don't change the rule they might as well go to single file restarts.

[Sicklajoie]

Back in the day, the flagman (i.e. Chris Hopkins) ran the show. The flagman had a big ego because he was the boss - not some guy up in a tower. When he threw the green, the race started. Not when they hit a starting box, not when they hit the start-finish line, when he threw the green. Whatever happened after the green flag falls is racing. This is about racing, right?? And starts and restarts are a big part of racing.
All the flagman is now is a puppet for "race control". I'd go so far as to say that the way races are run nowadays - if it weren't for some kind of visual for the spectators, you don't even need a flagman anymore.

[Magicshoes12]

Here is my video,
Sorry for the shakyness

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3pfK3nwxYc&feature=youtube_gdata

[CuriousGeorge]

Man, TC was so close. Almost ran Silk over at the start line. A rule is a rule, but the rule sucks.

[fastbackss]

That view sure tells an interesting story. Thanks for posting the video (both folks who have done so).

[stabone]

[quote]2651[/quot

[CTtoPA]

If a driver isn't aware of the rules, shame on him. As far as the restarts, just make the rule so that they can't break formation before the start/finish line. Is it me or did it look like Silk got a little sideways on the restart?

[Acadia]

As I have said before, many times, the flagman needs to start or restart the race. It looks like they started while still in T4, which is way too early. It is silly to put a rule in place that says the 2nd place car can't pass the Start/Finish line before the 1st place car on a restart like that. Like the driver of the 2nd place car is really going to be able to make sure that happens. How was the 93 supposed to mark the 6 and make sure he didn't pass the line before the 6 on the restart? If that is really what the rule is supposed to do, it's a bad rule. Interestingly, there was the same infraction with another NASCAR series just the past week or so, with photo evidence, and NASCAR did not enforce the same rule the same way. The 2nd place car was allowed to be ahead at the line on restart. So apparently NASCAR has to define how far ahead the 2nd place car can be before it is a penalty, and make sure everyone knows and the drivers can assess this while restarting.

The racers should not be determining when to start or restart. It is ridiculous to see the cars go and then the green flag waves. What's the point? The flagman needs to control the restart and then this rule is no longer an issue. The restart should not happen much more than a couple car lengths before the line, and definitely not in T4 or earlier. This is the way it use to be, and it was better than what we have now.

This was not a demo derby at all. Last year's IceBreaker also had 12 cautions. Unfortunately, there are too many cautions as standard procedure on the Tour, caused by well funded teams. Oh dear, you think the 33 had mechanical problems and caused a wreck so you are going to dump on him? Are you serious???? Why is this not a problem when a well funded team wrecks, and wrecks far more often? Oh yeah, even without mechanical problems... LOL

[shep 06]

Silk was sideways while spinning his tires, if Rowan lets off he stacks up the field =more wrecked cars. This rule sucks I feel bad for 93 team. As far as a rule is a rule how many times have seen nascar use judgement calls.This rule needs to be changed and I dont care how they do it for cup cars.

[RacnJason00]

That video there even makes it look like TC beat Silk to the line by a nose

[Groundpounder]

For those saying "a rule is a rule", Chad Little was quoted in Shawn Courchesne's blog stating that there is an exception to the rule if the leader spins his tires (among other things). Chad must be the only one who doesn't think Silk spun his tires on that restart.

[Acadia]

One of those videos clearly shows that the 6 was sideways on exiting T4 while restarting. While there are too many things wrong with that, there is no way stuff like this should be put on the 2P driver. Rules that are impossible to abide by or enforce are detrimental, not beneficial. The second place car hears/sees the first place car go so the second place car goes... The driver of the 2nd place car has too much going on as is to now to have to worry about not being ahead of the first place car at the line.

When the first place car stumbles on the restart, that's his problem and only his problem. Don't make it anybody else's problem, the 2P car is free to go.

Get grid of that ridiculous burden on the 2P driver.

Hey, why not use the flagman?

[Teds Race Tours]

http://www.facebook.com/events/#!/photo.php?v=2967533869114&set=vb.1284690248&type=2&theater

My Version of the finish.....Just change the rule....it's stupid, and it doesn't work for Modifieds. Modifieds are not Cup Cars and we SHOULD NOT have identical rules.

[Goldy]

This rule is so lame I don't know where to begin. As someone else stated we might as well go single file - Acadia is right, this is P1 (Silk's) problem he didn't get up to speed - the 93 should go and go with the hammer down, not having to worry about if the P1 car is in front at the line - You're only as good as your last restart - right? Absolutley right!!! come on, this is racing isn't it?? As if the videos were not enough, that picture Stabone has there - says it all.. Chad's exception he stated (spinning tires) is clearly in conflict with the outcome here..

I also gotta say - imo, our defending champ Silk comes away from this looking like a brat - "he (93) got what he deserved"? give me a break man - this win was gift wrapped courtesy of a lousy rule (that needs to be changed). Accept the win for what is was - a gift - and move on without throwing mud. Silk sucked on the last restart and got passed - he shouldn't win - period. Also, to say the 93 should then check up somewhere and let Silk by - I'm sorry but this is a G-W-C, there is very little room to be pulling over without getting run over by others chasing the win.. let these guys race without having them micro-manage every little aspect of the outcome - put the control back in the flagman’s hands - if he doesn't like the restart, throw the yellow in turn 2 - issue warnings and try again..

Way to stink up an otherwise solid race to start the season - Silk can smirk and make jabs because he "technically" won the race - but for this race fan - that's a sh*t stain of a win and nothing to be proud of..

[limodmaniac]

It's like that Millionaire TV game show.. When the player gets stuck , they poll the audience, and somehow the audience always knows the correct answer.. Well, if you listened to the chorus of boos from the fans at Thompson, once again, the audience had it right. Just like they had it right back in September of last year.

[Acadia]

And let's not forget that the first place car can ease off a little to force the 2P car across first. Rules have to prevent that possibility from happening.

[LiquidBread]

It just seems so simple and straight forward .... USE THE FLAGMAN. Bear was right in referring to the tower as 'The Clown House' on last Monday's Speedway Line Report. NASCAR's reasoning sounded like it came straight from Professor Irwin Corey.

[Acadia]

Although there was dubious drama at the conclusion, let's not lose sight of the fact that there was some pretty good racing and many cars looked very good. Yeah, still too many cautions, regardless of what the average is. The average is just too high. There is a new racing groove through T3-4 now so the cars go through without drifting and recovering, a big improvement. There were a couple good runs and the cars really got going, it was pretty good racing.

I wish the track would be repaved... it is awfully bumpy. If that track were smooth, racing would be incredible.

[Magicshoes12]

Although there was dubious drama at the conclusion, let's not lose sight of the fact that there was some pretty good racing and many cars looked very good. Yeah, still too many cautions, regardless of what the average is. The average is just too high. There is a new racing groove through T3-4 now so the cars go through without drifting and recovering, a big improvement. There were a couple good runs and the cars really got going, it was pretty good racing.

I wish the track would be repaved... it is awfully bumpy. If that track were smooth, racing would be incredible.

It's been about 10 years since they did repave it

[Acadia]

This "1P crosses the line first on the restart" is just crazy. I can't believe this really happened. This is what happens when the inmates are running the joint. The drivers should not be allowed to go on their own volition, ever. And if the flagman actually restarted, the "1P crosses the line first on restart" would have no reason to exist.

Back when the flagman controlled the restart, he would keep them slowed with his left hand holding a yellow flag and wave the green flag in his right hand when the field deserved it. It was yellow until the green was waved. It was common to make the cars go round yellow again because they weren't lined up properly. Now, the restart for practical purposes happens when the pace car gets out of the way, which is not good at all.

What is the point of a rule that requires the 1P car to cross the line first on a restart? If that is really the rule, then the cars should not be allowed to go until they get to the line. It is irrefutably absurd to start the race in T4 and require the 1P car to cross the line first. What is supposed to happen in the time the cars go in T4 and the line?

<SMH>

[Sicklajoie]

I wish the track would be repaved... it is awfully bumpy. If that track were smooth, racing would be incredible.
IMO the racing has suffered at tracks that have repaved. Thompson used to have better racing before the repave. Now it's everyone fighting for the upper groove and playing chicken with slidejobs. The bottom used to work well back in the day it you set the car up for the bump coming off of 2.
Stafford took a real turn for the worse when they repaved in 1998. There used to be 2 legitimate grooves and the track had a ton of character with the bumps and the seams. Now for the most part it's a bottom feeder track. There's only a select few that can make the outside work.
Tracks like Monadnock - I think they still have the original pavement from the early 70's - and Waterford - it was last repaved in 1988 still offer really good racing.
Leave the tracks alone. The more the character the better the racing.

[worm]

the older the payment the better it is

[Acadia]

It's not so much about the surface as it is about the dips and bumps, although there are enough cracks and patches already a repave should not be out of the question. It's like a roller coaster and those bumps and dips upsets the cars. Clearly the track has sagged in many areas, and maybe there are residues of frost heaves, but the bumps and dips are there and affect the cars.

[Teds Race Tours]

When Riverhead repaved(around 1999) it was way too fast, and the racing suffered.....somewhere around 5 or 6 years later, the inside groove started to wear down, and the outside groove had some really good grip for a year or 2, and honestly, it was the best racing I've seen in 40 years at the track. Tracks are always changing...sometimes for the worse, sometimes for the better.

[SUfan]

My concern is Loudon being repaved in "two to three years" (Gappens). What will that do to the Modified racing there?

[csammy]

i wonder what will be said at this weekends tour race at the drivers meeting will chad little adress the problem of the restart issue or if the drivers have a question will he say see me in the hauler like he did to flemke and stefanik instead of taking care of the problem in the open not behind closed doors

[spotter27]

did anyone see what carl edwards did last nite at richmond? was that not what happend at thompson and same call was made?

[SteveS]

did anyone see what carl edwards did last nite at richmond? was that not what happend at thompson and same call was made?
The difference last night was the launch occurred ahead of the lines. There were plenty of replays from various angles to prove out the call. The WMT doesn't get the benefit of a single TV angle much less multiple TV angles. It seemed pretty clear that Ronnie spun at Thompson on the final restart but as far as whether Rowan jumped ahead of the line on the wall I couldn't discern from any video I saw. Maybe they should just have them race an unspecified number of laps and when Nascar likes the running order they can just throw the checkered flag on that lap.

[RacnJason00]

did anyone see what carl edwards did last nite at richmond? was that not what happend at thompson and same call was made?

Same exact thing happened as last night and thats coming from another spotter!!