Twin 30's

[Lugnuts]

I must say that the twin 30 format was, well not twin 30's in my opinion. A modified/glorified 60 lap feature is more like it. I understand the reasoning behind doing what was done however it doesn't really give drivers the chance at points being that the second 30 lap event, so to speak is just a continuation of the first. Oh yea and a single file start to boot. It was not really two features as one would be led to believe.

In my opinion based on the time trial format, the first 30 lap feature should be run as they did, based on time and a redraw and should be run between the blunderbusts and the chargers. After completion of that have a straight up redraw picked in the order of finish. Allow drivers to make some adjustments, repair damage etc. (NO NEW TIRES, MUST START SECOND 30 ON SAME TIRES) and then run the second 30 lap feature in its normal slot.

I don't know what people think this is just my opinion. All that was done was a yellow/checker, competition yellow as some would call it was thrown to signify the end of the event which was nothing more that a break in the action to relign the field and continue, "single file". A good decision on adding races for the pionts game, but bad decision on format.

[TTOR]

I agree completely. I can't comment on what it's like for the drivers or crews, but from a spectator's standpoint it was a pretty disappointing show. It was nothing more than a 60 lap feature with a competition caution. Not only was it not entertaining, but it wasn't fair to the teams that took damage in the first race and didn't have time to complete repairs for the second. Having the second "race" start with the same finishing order from the first on a single file restart was the worst possible way to start it in my opinion. I would have liked to have seen two completely separate races, ideally split up so with other divisions running in between to allow for repairs. As for the starting lineup, there are several options that would work equally well, use two redraws after time trials, one for each race, or a complete redraw after the first race finishes. But, personally, what I would want to see most is the field gets inverted for the 2nd race based on the 1st race finishing order. If they're worried about sandbagging, they could use a random invert like Nascar used to do in the All-Star race. Either way I do see any reason why they can't run the races as two separate events. Doing it the current way doesn't make much sense.

[Teds Race Tours]

We saw a 60 lap feature. But there is no reason we shouldn't get separate 30 lap races. Just My Opinion.

[attituderacing]

Well there should be no invert for the second thirty
, being the money is payed for the second thirty. I thought once the first 30 was over, everyone was back on the lead lap, I don't think that was the case

[Wheel Racing]

Were there Riverhead points awarded after the first 30 or only NYS points? Does Eddie actually get credit with a win too? I agree in breaking it up into 2 separate events and making the teams start on the same set of tires so that everyone is on a level playing field .It would also make it so that the teams don't have to spend additional money,especially if there is not an additional purse. Other tracks run double features all the time so I'm sure there is a format that can work out for everyone involved. As far as the race not being "entertaining", I couldn't disagree more. That was one of the most competitive races I have seen in a while. Lots of side by side action and people taking chances all over the track. Timmy and Dave put on a great show at the end,not to mention the race in the 1st 30 with Eddie,Tommy,Timmy and Silk. Those guys were on it and you can't tell me that wasn't entertaining to see some of the best drivers around all hungry for a win and not playing follow the leader.

[RGeeProductions]

Neal, the 1st 30 counted only for NATIONAL points. (Brunnhoelzl)
National, Regional (NY) and track points were awarded to the 2nd 30 winner. (Solomito)
For Regional & Track points it was actually a 60 lapper.

[Lugnuts]

Attituderacing, No redraw!! I get it. I believe you are disagreeing due to who was up front. Yes, I'm taking about Timmy. Had he been at the rear of the field I think you may be thinking a little different. If money is only paid on the second 30 then why are they calling it twin 30's. The fact is it really isn't that at all. Its just a points game. Like others have said including myself, Let the guys who suffered damage early get repairs made and get back out for the so called second 30. Again leave it the powers to be at the head to call things different than what they really are. Bowman Gray did twin 25's on Sat. They do a pick from a hat picking a number from 4-20. Whatever the number piked is, is the amount of cars that get inverted and then they run the second event as a totally seperat event. That is twin's. Not what was done on Sat. I would like to think that with Steve Tooker on board as well as John Ellwood, who are racers, that after reading these posts, and maybe getting some feedback, that maybe they could or would make some suggestions before this week. Maybe they don't have that ability or power, I don't know, however give the fans what was advertised, twin 30's not a 60 lap event with a competetion caution.

Agreeing with Wheel, yes the race did have some exiting racing, however I believe that a second event started double file as a new race would have provided some very exiting racing as well. JMO

[nags94]

If it was twin 30's it should have been two pay outs?

[attituderacing]

Lugnuts... I'm not just saying that because Timmy was up front... do you forget I have 3 cars out there, but why would someone race real hard in the first one, that doesn't pay anything, to have a re-draw for the second one, that pays the money, it doesnt make sense. So if that was the case my son Shawn would of been up front...hmmmm

[limodmaniac]

Please investigate how Mahoning Valley did triple 25s.

Again, this was not twin 30s. It was a 60 lap race, that just happened to give points out to the NY State Champion as if it were twin 30s. So if it comes down to it, a dominant driver will take home the State Championship. That is the only way it was a twin 30 race. However, they honestly should have started everyone at lap 1 again, so that you did not enter the last 30 laps already laps down.

And stop with the single file restarts before half way.

[Hotsauce]

I agree that it should be two 30 lap races with another division in between, but does it make sense? Its still the same payout either way. As far as the single file restarts are concerned I think it was the right decision. There were three or four attempts on lap 27 to restart double file. How much more damage needs to be done? As Tony Stewart said yesteday "I feel bad if I don't spend at least $150,000 in torn-up race cars going back to the shop"

[JWfor8x]

Please investigate how Mahoning Valley did triple 25s.

Again, this was not twin 30s. It was a 60 lap race, that just happened to give points out to the NY State Champion as if it were twin 30s. So if it comes down to it, a dominant driver will take home the State Championship. That is the only way it was a twin 30 race. However, they honestly should have started everyone at lap 1 again, so that you did not enter the last 30 laps already laps down.

And stop with the single file restarts before half way.

I have lots of problems with this format. I understand that the track does not want to pay out 2 purses for the mods. Fine, I don't blame them for that. If they are going to call them seperate races for the purpose of national and NYS point, seperate points for each 30 lap segment should be awarded. The other thing, if they are simply running a 60 lap race with a competition caution after 30 laps, how can they justify having everyone start lap 31 on the lead lap? I could have understood the single file restart if it had been considerred a single race, but not when they were calling the second 30 laps a seperate race which it didn't turn out to be anyway. They need to do some tweeking.

[Teds Race Tours]

Imagine, if it's this confusing to all of us, who have been watching modified racing for decades, how confusing this was for a new fan of the sport.

How could it pay National points for the "1st 30" and Not NY State Points for the 1st 30? Are you only doing this to help get Preece and TC here? I thought it was being done to help the Local's Do better in the NY Championship, which Justin lost last year basically when the last August Saturday Night got Rained out.

Here's my take on how it should be based on what I have seen other tracks do. Run the 1st Mod Race Early in the Evening. This gives teams who broke something an opportunity to repair it. Take the total purse thats being paid and chop it in half. 50 % purse for 1st race. 50% to the 2nd race. After 1st Race, impound the mods. No Tire Changes. Impounded Mods start in front of cars that need repair, who will start in the back. If you wanna realign the 2nd feature by points, or random number invert, either way is fine with me. 2nd Race starts DOUBLE FILE regardless of 1st race problems. Both Drivers Get Victory Lane. All Drivers Get Points for Both Races. The Money situation works out the same way. Same Money Paid out, just dispersed differently. Same Money Spent as a 60 lapper, since tire changes not allowed unless flat.

Now, Someone please tell me why this wouldn't work?

[TMAC]

Gotta say for opening night, the type of racin and quality of cars we had .. It's gonna be some year! Linda congrats to 99 team, hell of a pass! To take the lead , actually Increditable !! For all who wasn't there .Was a good one!!!Guess after 8x went into wall, they didn't bring car out? Anyone know who that guy in stands who got hurt in between turns one and two?

[Lugnuts]

Attituderacing, First let me start with my apologies to you. If I insulted you that was not my intent, I am not looking to insult anyone here, and yes I do know you have three cars on the track. All I was doing was commenting on the fact that your thoughts may have been different under different circumstances. Point well taken, and a fine gesture on Timmys part by not parking in victory lane in tribute to Jason, Congrats on your win.

With that said all i was looking to do as was said in many ways here on this thread was to have a better rounded race or races and to be fair to all involved, owners, racers, fans etc.

Lets hope things can be tweeked to better suit everyone, and lets face it, there are some good ideas here.

[TTOR]

Imagine, if it's this confusing to all of us, who have been watching modified racing for decades, how confusing this was for a new fan of the sport.

How could it pay National points for the "1st 30" and Not NY State Points for the 1st 30? Are you only doing this to help get Preece and TC here? I thought it was being done to help the Local's Do better in the NY Championship, which Justin lost last year basically when the last August Saturday Night got Rained out.

Here's my take on how it should be based on what I have seen other tracks do. Run the 1st Mod Race Early in the Evening. This gives teams who broke something an opportunity to repair it. Take the total purse thats being paid and chop it in half. 50 % purse for 1st race. 50% to the 2nd race. After 1st Race, impound the mods. No Tire Changes. Impounded Mods start in front of cars that need repair, who will start in the back. If you wanna realign the 2nd feature by points, or random number invert, either way is fine with me. 2nd Race starts DOUBLE FILE regardless of 1st race problems. Both Drivers Get Victory Lane. All Drivers Get Points for Both Races. The Money situation works out the same way. Same Money Paid out, just dispersed differently. Same Money Spent as a 60 lapper, since tire changes not allowed unless flat.

Now, Someone please tell me why this wouldn't work?

This makes sense to me. Like I said from the start, I don't understand the reasoning as to why they wouldn't do it this way. I don't understand what the track or the promoters have to lose by running it as two distinct events (as advertised). What is the motivation of the powers that be to run as a single event rather than as two distinct events? If there is a legitimate reason, then okay I'll accept that, but as far as I can tell there isn't one. It's perplexing, to say the least.

What exactly was the motivation for the "Twins" anyway, I've heard several different reasons, all having something to do with rain-outs and minimum race dates and NYS points. Can someone clarify exactly what the deal was that led to this in the first place? thanks.

[Fat Albert]

Imagine, if it's this confusing to all of us, who have been watching modified racing for decades, how confusing this was for a new fan of the sport.

How could it pay National points for the "1st 30" and Not NY State Points for the 1st 30? Are you only doing this to help get Preece and TC here? I thought it was being done to help the Local's Do better in the NY Championship, which Justin lost last year basically when the last August Saturday Night got Rained out.

Here's my take on how it should be based on what I have seen other tracks do. Run the 1st Mod Race Early in the Evening. This gives teams who broke something an opportunity to repair it. Take the total purse thats being paid and chop it in half. 50 % purse for 1st race. 50% to the 2nd race. After 1st Race, impound the mods. No Tire Changes. Impounded Mods start in front of cars that need repair, who will start in the back. If you wanna realign the 2nd feature by points, or random number invert, either way is fine with me. 2nd Race starts DOUBLE FILE regardless of 1st race problems. Both Drivers Get Victory Lane. All Drivers Get Points for Both Races. The Money situation works out the same way. Same Money Paid out, just dispersed differently. Same Money Spent as a 60 lapper, since tire changes not allowed unless flat.

Now, Someone please tell me why this wouldn't work?


Ted! You're making way to much sense! Real twin 30's with half money would be the best way to go! EBIII won the "first" 30 and what did he get? 20th place money won't help him with the repair bills.

[hollywoodmic]

Hey Fat Albert, Ted and everyone else, be careful what you wish for. If I owned this place and my premiere division would run 30 laps for $750 to win, that would make for a good deal for me on non-twin nights. Why wouldn't I pay them $800 for 35 laps next year?? If they were willing to run for $750 for 30 laps??? Just be careful here that's all I'm saying. The format needs to be worked on for sure, but don't offer to run 30 laps for $750 to win it could be the kiss of death to this division.

[Jaws]

Hey Fat Albert, Ted and everyone else, be careful what you wish for. If I owned this place and my premiere division would run 30 laps for $750 to win, that would make for a good deal for me on non-twin nights. Why wouldn't I pay them $800 for 35 laps next year?? If they were willing to run for $750 for 30 laps??? Just be careful here that's all I'm saying. The format needs to be worked on for sure, but don't offer to run 30 laps for $750 to win it could be the kiss of death to this division.

Well, right now they are running 30 laps for $0.00

[Hollywood]

2 - 30 lap races....... 2 entry fees........ $1400 to win each 30 lapper...... NY State points for each, National points for each, Riverhead points for each... One race early so a lot of children would see the mods, one race later in the evening...
I wasn't there but reading the posts it seems everyone wants to call it 2 races... You can invert, pull from a hat, roll dice, or any other ideas... DOUBLE FILE RESTARTS ALWAYS BEFORE HALFWAY. If these points are important to TC, Ryan or anyone else, they WILL show up... More Mods= more money......More fans, more money.....

[JWfor8x]

Gotta say for opening night, the type of racin and quality of cars we had .. It's gonna be some year! Linda congrats to 99 team, hell of a pass! To take the lead , actually Increditable !! For all who wasn't there .Was a good one!!!Guess after 8x went into wall, they didn't bring car out? Anyone know who that guy in stands who got hurt in between turns one and two?

I have to agree with the pass for the lead, it was a ridiculously good pass. On your earlier post about what you think should be done, I honestly can't say that what you proposed wouldn't work and it sure would make it easier for many people to understand just what is going on.

[hollywoodmic]

No Jaws you're wrong they are running 60 laps for $1500 to win with a competition caution in the middle. They run the 77 and 100 lap races the purse is the same as a 35 lap race. If these guy and gals start racing for 30 laps for half the purse they will set a pressident that will not help them in the future. That's my point. If your landscaper is willing to cut your lawn for 1/2 price 6 times a year why couldn't he do that all time, if he wants the business??? If they race for $750, be the owner, why wouldn't they do it all the time?? That's no shot at the promoters at all, it's just business.

[attituderacing]

no jaws you're wrong they are running 60 laps for $1500 to win with a competition caution in the middle. They run the 77 and 100 lap races the purse is the same as a 35 lap race. If these guy and gals start racing for 30 laps for half the purse they will set a pressident that will not help them in the future. That's my point. If your landscaper is willing to cut your lawn for 1/2 price 6 times a year why couldn't he do that all time, if he wants the business??? If they race for $750, be the owner, why wouldn't they do it all the time?? That's no shot at the promoters at all, it's just business.

exactly!!!

[mal861976]

Hollywood, you are 100% correct!

[JWfor8x]

No Jaws you're wrong they are running 60 laps for $1500 to win with a competition caution in the middle. They run the 77 and 100 lap races the purse is the same as a 35 lap race. If these guy and gals start racing for 30 laps for half the purse they will set a pressident that will not help them in the future. That's my point. If your landscaper is willing to cut your lawn for 1/2 price 6 times a year why couldn't he do that all time, if he wants the business??? If they race for $750, be the owner, why wouldn't they do it all the time?? That's no shot at the promoters at all, it's just business.

You're partially right but I think partially wrong too. If the promoters double the payout, they will make it up in other ways. They will not just absorb the increased cost. The competitors will pay more at the back gate and the spectators will pay more at the front gate. Will that help with car counts? Will that help bring in more fans or competitors? I don't think so.

[Hollywood]

The back gate pays the purses....The back gate has ALWAYS covered the purses and then some.... The front gate pays everything else..

[Turbo]

Does anyone know how much it was to win in 1990?

[j-rod]

turbo- dont get me started on payouts lol ... 750 would be great for a payout in lm's. the mods get a fair purse, for their sake i wouldnt want to sacrifice it in any way

[hollywoodmic]

Turbo- Be the owner- Why change the purse you had 29 Modifieds for opening night. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. If it was my business and they were still coming I wouldn't change the purse either.......Unless of course they showed me it was OK to lower it, which is what the drivers will do if they run for $750 for 30 laps.
Harold (Hollywood) Great idea, great concept. But, if I came through the back gate I'd say I was with a Charger team, there goes your two entry fees even if you charged the driver a 2nd entry fee that's not covering the purse if the back gate was $40 that would only be an additional entry fee of $1160 that would barely pay 1st and 2nd, who's paying the the other 24 spots (based on dbl entry fee). I know what my insurance is in my business and I know my electric bill and payroll, I'm sure you know yours, How do you know theirs???
I know we did the Daytona 500 party at the restaurant and to put a tent on my outside deck I had to pay $600 for a 1 day insurance policy. Someone lay out the 7 purses see what the purses actually cost before making that statement. I'm not saying you're wrong but you know the cost of doing business in this state. They are entitled to make $$ otherwise why be in business.

[Ka$h25]

I'm pretty sure these twin races were discussed long before we heard any rumors of TC and Preece being weekly competitors. So we can nix that talk.

The format was weird, for sure. I don't see any reason to complain about it though.

There shouldn't be any kind of field inversion. Not even randomly.

I think there should be SOME kinda payoff bonus to the winner of the first 30.

And everyone should be on lap 1 to start the second half.

That's my two cents.

[uticamike]

Way back in my yoot (the early 70's) Utica/Rome had their premier event of the season ( New Yorker 400) as two 200 lap events. The field was inverted and the second 200

raced like it was a whole new race. The ave finish is what mattered at the pay window and points awarding. The fans got to see some of the good guys race back through the

field to claim their prize. (read passing..which is what the fans pay to see) I thought. I think that point is lost too often in this day and age.

[hollywoodmic]

JWfor8x did you read what you wrote??? Why would the spectators pay more $$ to get in if the promoters paid a double purse??? People complain now that it cost to much to get in. So now you want the fans and competitors to pay the purse not the promoters. I think you also mis-quoted yourself otherwise your plan really wont work: you ended your point with,

"The competitors will pay more at the back gate and the spectators will pay more at the front gate. Will that help with car counts? Will that help bring in more fans or competitors? I don't think so."

If it's not going to help car counts and it's not going to bring in more fans or competitors, if you're the promoter why would you pay double the purse???
If you mis-quoted and wanted to say " I think so" what assurance do the promoters have that the cars will come, more people will come??? Your word?? Your word doesn't put $$ in their pockets. Neither does mine for that matter.

The only point I'm trying to make with my original post was don't run 30 laps for $750 to win you'll be sorry. I don't know how that was wrong???

[Hollywood]

HollywoodMic, I hear ya! What is going to bring Mods is National points and state points.. Riverhead points mean nothing to a lot of the traveling teams.. Teams make commitments before the season to run for national championships.. If there are no conflicts during the season with other points races the cars are going to show up. I agree DON'T change the purse... Maybe a little incentive to win the first 30 lapper? Maybe a set of right sides? Just a thought!

[RGeeProductions]

Riverhead drivers have never had an opportunity to be in the NASCAR points system on a national level. This whole scheduling had to do with helping Riverhead regulars to get into the NASCAR system, not to benefit the track but the drivers. Years ago NASCAR had a regional point system. This didn't work, so they went to a state point system, which does work. Riverhead's twin 30's was created to give Riverhead drivers enough races to competitive within the NASCAR New York point system. The state system is the groundblock for the NASCAR National points and it does not go by just one states points for a driver. You may be in 3 or 4 states racing, and all of those would count into your national points, which kept Riverhead racers out of the picture. This is why TC, Preece, Silk and Pallai have come to race here (National Points). Both of these NASCAR point systems have great benefits at the end of the year for the top drivers (recognition, awards, money). Remember, the twins only count for New York points and the 2nd 30 winner (60 lap race) would also get the Riverhead track points from the overall racing. I really think they have done the right thing here for the drivers. hollywoodmic and Hollywood made some great valid points above in their posts. And breaking the race up to run at 2 different times during the night would open another bag of worms (which is not necessary with the intent of the format)... Funny I haven't seen any drivers here complaining about what is being done for them. Wonder why?

[limodmaniac]

I don't think Silk or Pallai are running for NY State or National points. I think you pretty much have to run every race at Riverhead to get NY State Champ and 3 nights a week to get the National Champ. Don't you? TC and Ryan might be in the run for National points, but prob not NY state points. The one who really makes out in the NY State Points might be Timmy Solomito! ( if he has the kind of year that Justin had last year)

[RGeeProductions]

Whether you run NY or CT or MASS, or all 3, all your points go toward the national points.
And the reason for the twins is so there are enough races even with a rainout or two.

[Ka$h25]

Whether you run NY or CT or MASS, or all 3, all your points go toward the national points.
And the reason for the twins is so there are enough races even with a rainout or two.

And if i understand correctly, a bad finish or two as well?

[hollywoodmic]

Kash they only take your best finishes. I don't know the number of races you need I believe its 18. If you ran 24 races they take your best 18 finishes. I'm pretty sure that's how it works. Last year we had a post on here about how it wasn't fair to Justin because, had we made up a rainout he would have been eligible and probably would've won the NY Region. The promoters seeing that came up with the Twin idea. It's only "twins" in theroy people. They are trying to help one of our competitors win the Region so that they don't fall short by 1 race again. The format needs to be tweaked. I'm sure they will figure it out. Give it a chance, don't throw the towel in after week 1.

[RGeeProductions]

Correct.
And points are determined by how many cars are in the feature.
Less of a field, less points.

[JWfor8x]

Kash they only take your best finishes. I don't know the number of races you need I believe its 18. If you ran 24 races they take your best 18 finishes. I'm pretty sure that's how it works. Last year we had a post on here about how it wasn't fair to Justin because, had we made up a rainout he would have been eligible and probably would've won the NY Region. The promoters seeing that came up with the Twin idea. It's only "twins" in theroy people. They are trying to help one of our competitors win the Region so that they don't fall short by 1 race again. The format needs to be tweaked. I'm sure they will figure it out. Give it a chance, don't throw the towel in after week 1.

hollywoodmic,
As a fan, not a racer, not a sponsor and not a team owner, I have no problem with the basic format that they are running. I agree with everything that you say here. I am also very grateful to the Cromarty's for not only keeping the last race track on Long Island open but headlining it with the modifieds that I have loved since I used to root for Eddie brunnhoelzl Sr. and George Brunnhoelzl Sr. back in the 1950's. My only, slight, problem is that they advertise the race as twin 30 lap races when it is in fact a 60 lap race with a break in mid race.

[Lugnuts]

Well put. I understand the reason why they are doing what they are doing. I still think that if this is being done for the points issue then a redraw, invert or however else you want to shuffle the field, would be in best interest for people trying to get those points if in fact the two 30 lap events were run seperately, with a break in between. As stated earlier in this thread it would then give the guys that are running for the points the ability to make repairs and get back for the second event. TC is the perfect example. I believe he is running for those points. TC got wrecked early, had the event been run as I stated then he would have had the opportunity to make up some points where he lost them in the first event. As for the purse issue, i don't have an easy answer for that one. Not an easy thing to work out. I agree with the fact that is good that the powers to be have done this. With some adjustments I think things could be made better for everyone. JMO

[Teds Race Tours]

I stand by my original statement and idea. If they ran the twin 30's the way I said, it would cost the Cromarty's exactly what it would for a regular show. If Would cost the teams almost exactly what it would for a 35 lapper if you don't allow tire changes. It would create added excitment in the grandstand. Like I said before, there is nothing wrong with a 60 lapper, but 2 REAL 30 Lappers would give the paying fan that much more for their admission dollars. It's really not racing 30 laps for half purse, its racing 60 laps for full purse.....just paid out half and half. It's exactly the same amount of racing. Make them Twin 25's, I'd be fine with that too. Riverhead's Regular Modified Races when i was a child were 25 laps. The Purse hasn't really changed since the 80's, so, if it doesn't go up....i certainly don't expect it to go down. With My Idea, the Drivers would still get extra races for NYS and National Points and the Fans get added excitement. From What Justin told me last year the NYS Title paid 12k to win. That would certainly be a good deal for one of the locals. I've read all of the posts, I just don't really see anything that should prevent my idea from becoming a reality.

[Wheel Racing]

Yeah.......what Ted said^