NASCAR -Loudon Cuts Modified Purse

[MOD11RACER]

Could someone from NASCAR, Loudon, Phil K. of Whelen or even Burtin Smith explain the motive behind cutting the Modified purse at Loundon $17,165 cash. First cut $4,000, second cut $3,800 and third cut $1,800. This has to make everyone on the Tour sick.

The owners of the Modifieds on this Tour are the most dedicated racers i've even seen in any sport and race for next to nothing, now you want to take that away.

I have tried to stick up for the WMT for years, but this is total disgrace to all of the owners, drivers, fans that support this Tour. It makes me sick and I don't even own a car on the Tour.

NASCAR if you want to kill this great Tour just do it and stop the slow death.

Phil K. of Whelen : I know this is not your fault, but with that said you need to step up to the plate and tell NASCAR this isn't right.

If this is not corrected the Owners should not show up for the Loudon race. SCREW NASCAR and SCREW BURTON SMITH.

Go ahead NASCAR PR man JC. Lets see you put a spin on this one.

Craig A. Gabriele

[RGeeProductions]

Do you have the run down for lower finishing positions?
My understanding is that they were to more. Money was supposed to be shifted into the lower end to benefit lower finishing teams and attract a few more cars.

I am more po'd about the competition caution that will be thrown at lap 50 only because the new spec engine can't go the full distance on topped off fuel!!!!! They are not saying that but there is NO reason for a mandatory caution during this race.

[outlawfab]

............

[Acadia]

I am more po'd about the competition caution that will be thrown at lap 50 only because the new spec engine can't go the full distance on topped off fuel!!!!! They are not saying that but there is NO reason for a mandatory caution during this race.


WHAAAAAA!?!?!??!?!!?! The Loudon events are by far the best, or should I say were the best. If the spec engine can't keep up with the built engines at this horsepower track, then the spec engine idea needs to be scrapped. Handicapping and knee-capping the cars that run the built engines will ruin this race. As it is, the gear rule will just about eliminate the draft advantage and dive bomb moves. Loudon is a horsepower track, no place to force a spec engine and it's consequences on the entire field.

And a mandatory competition caution????? There will be plenty of opportunies to top off with fuel, no need for another caution in a series that has too many already.

[RGeeProductions]

WHAAAAAA!?!?!??!?!!?! The Loudon events are by far the best, or should I say were the best. If the spec engine can't keep up with the built engines at this horsepower track, then the spec engine idea needs to be scrapped. Handicapping and knee-capping the cars that run the built engines will ruin this race. As it is, the gear rule will just about eliminate the draft advantage and dive bomb moves. Loudon is a horsepower track, no place to force a spec engine and it's consequences on the entire field.

And a mandatory competition caution????? There will be plenty of opportunies to top off with fuel, no need for another caution in a series that has too many already.

But if the spec motored cars have to stop for fuel and the builts do not.... remember 850cfm carb here....
fuel and tires separate stops here.....

[Acadia]

But if the spec motored cars have to stop for fuel and the builts do not.... remember 850cfm carb here....
fuel and tires separate stops here.....


Nah, there are already way too many cautions. Fuel and tires are normally taken during one of the already too many cautions.

I've never seen green flag stops for fuel or tires at Loudon.

[bud]

Wow mod11 I never thought id see the day........
Proud of you. The light is coming down the tunnel.
So Jason......please tell us. Must be they need the money cause of low cup ticket sales!

[MJProcko]

I've been negotiating with my wife on vacation dates, my first back home in sometime. I say negotiate because I am trying to angle for early August to slip in both Stafford/Thompson into the Itinerary. Normally Loudon would be the fall back week but a reduced purse, no TV, and now the added halftime break knocks that out on principal alone. It is important to me because at the rate Nascar is going this could very well be my last chance to see Modified racing in all its glory. I figure a family of 4 can swing that. I notice they charged $20 to get into the K&N race at Gresham this past weekend so.... I check the ticket costs..... $35 for Stafford, $44 for Thompson. It looks like I am going to have to go to Foxwoods and pray for luck or the wife and kids won't be going to the races.....

[mod35]

Guys lets face it nascar would love it if this division rode of into the sunset

[Magicshoes12]

If this is not corrected the Owners should not show up for the Loudon race. SCREW NASCAR and SCREW BURTON SMITH.

Craig A. Gabriele

Craig, If you were an owner on the WMT and were running for a Championship, would you skip this race? Would you lose your Championship points? Would you pass on the opportunity at Winning $10,000? If these guys are there to make money then they are in the wrong sport. Get out of racing completely. And I'm not a big Burton Smith fan, but would you want to screw the guy who pays the tour's 3 biggest purses of the season for a regular points race? If you guys complain so much about the WMT just go to the VMRS Tour, Take it for what it is. If fans stop going they stop going, That isn't going to effect Nascar's Billion Dollar Business, yes it'll effect the WMT but that isn't the only Modified Tour out there.

[BigMac]

I've been negotiating with my wife on vacation dates, my first back home in sometime. I say negotiate because I am trying to angle for early August to slip in both Stafford/Thompson into the Itinerary. Normally Loudon would be the fall back week but a reduced purse, no TV, and now the added halftime break knocks that out on principal alone. It is important to me because at the rate Nascar is going this could very well be my last chance to see Modified racing in all its glory. I figure a family of 4 can swing that. I notice they charged $20 to get into the K&N race at Gresham this past weekend so.... I check the ticket costs..... $35 for Stafford, $44 for Thompson. It looks like I am going to have to go to Foxwoods and pray for luck or the wife and kids won't be going to the races.....

I might be out on principle as well. The mandatory caution is stupid. They need to fix this before NHMS weekend rolls around.

[worm]

spec motor can not make 100 laps with out fuel,and you can not put tires and fuel in on a reg pit stop so spec motor would have to stop twice. so u get coffee break half way

[WMT10]

How many cars are running a spec motor? They changing this for 2-3 cars?

[RGeeProductions]

worm - I said that above but some don't get that skipping one stop for fuel, even under caution, is track position
gary - not known if that's the reason but I can't see any other except for that

[bud]

Magic are you married to Jasons sister.....lol.
I sent an email to Jerry Gappens today.
I suggest you all let them know how you feel.

[stabone]

The Biggest Stage we have for our guys to go over the wall and show there stuff.....Also The Biggest and safest pit boxes that we have. But wait NASCAR IS NOT DONE YET Sept. race might be 75 laps!!! And no one will speak up and ask why....What a shame....

[NWMT PR]

As I've stated before, I'm not going to comment on the specifics of a race purse. Is it less than last year's July race? ... Yes. Is it more than last year's August race? ... Yes. Is it still the highest paying race of the year? ... Yes. Beyond that, I'm not going to be able to comment.

The reason for the midway break is very simple. If you're aware of what goes on in the other NASCAR touring series, then you know that midway breaks are not a new concept. We've had more than 30 races dating back to at least 2005 that have had a midway break, including Whelen Modified Tour races at Martinsville, Bristol and Delaware. ... It is designed as a cost-savings measure for the teams.

Now you will say, "we've been racing at Loudon for 20 years and never needed a midway break before." That may be true, but team owners have been very clear in asking for help with cutting down on travel and at-track expenses. The result of that is the upcoming race weekend at NHMS. The off day on Friday has been eliminated, and teams can now also travel with fewer crew members because there are no live pit stops. The K&N East race at NHMS in September will have a midway break, and in fact, 4 of their 14 races this year have a break. The bottom line here is ... this had nothing to do with fuel mileage of one engine vs. another.

And while I'm being asked questions from you all, will you allow me to turn it around? Please explain why things like a gear rule change, a 5-minute midway break, and a different purse for the competitors in any way changes whether you wish to attend a race or not? I'm assuming you all still believe this is the best race of the year, so how does any of the above affects whether you would want to witness it? I will grant you that the midway break can potentially take away 30 seconds of excitement and intrigue, but what about the other 1 hour and 15 minutes of action?

[Acadia]

Too many cautions already, no need for a competition caution. C'mon, we talk about too many cautions all the time here. There will be ample opportunity to refuel or take on tires. Accommodating a spec motor that can't compete is a complete slap in the face to those that run built motors. Come up with a spec motor that can compete on the track, and last as long as a built motor, and will be allowed to be reworked by a shop other than one anointed by NASCAR, and then you'll be doing something productive. The spec motor is no bargain, about the only parts that can survive a refresh are the carb and intake manifold. And remember, only the NASCAR anointed shop can do the "refresh".

Handicapping and kneecapping to try to make the spec motor competitive is bad, real bad. The mod crowd are a bunch of unique, independent, creative types. Could you imagine what Boehler, Evans or Jarzombek would be thinking if they saw this???

The gear rule is aimed to kneecap the built motors and handicap the spec motors. The gear rule stinks. It has eliminated the draft advantages, there's no RPM gain from the draft anymore. There will be no more excitement of a car drafting up behind another and pulling out for a pass. This will also eliminate the dive passing at the end of the straights on entry. That pretty much eliminated the two most exciting aspects of mod racing at Loudon. Blame it on the spec motor. This event is going to look like a freight train, and occasionally, two turtles will be involved in an attempted pass. It was rare that a race turned into freight train, but the rules in place for Loudon seem to be designed to make sure it is a freight train.

And a new fuel can and fuel can cart is needed for Loudon. Way to go in helping reduce costs, NASCAR. <sarcasm>

So let's see how many less crew there are at this event to reduce costs. And let's not forget that teams had to buy a new quick change rear (about 27# heavier) to accommodate the gear rule that is aimed at enabling the spec motor that can't breath, even with the big carb. So the built motor teams had to incur huge expense already on behalf of the spec motors... this is profoundly absurd.

So let's say we are at lap 45... Szegedy, Coby, Santos, Stefanik, Rocco, Lia, Preece, Pennink, Newman and Silk are swapping the lead a couple times per lap... Here comes lap 50... WHAM!!!!!! Competition caution to throw a wet towel on the racing. What is the difference between this competition caution and the several other cautions that are going to happen??? Good long competitive runs are rare as it is, there are too many cautions already, and then to mandate another caution is counter-productive.

Can NASCAR please consider calling the competition caution when an on-track caution happens within laps 40-60, or some other window, instead of invoking another caution?

So how many crew are going to be allowed to work on the car during the intermission break? How about a rule that reduces the number of crew that are allowed over the wall and ditch the competition caution?

And ditch the rule that prohibits fuel and tires in the same pit stop.

In summary:

The gear rule eliminates what real racing potential there was.

A competition caution is yet another 5-minute break, which is like every other caution which there are way too many already.

Owners that run built motors are kneecapped when they have to run a gear to accommodate the other car(s) that run a spec motor, and have to pay the expense of the new quick change rear end while facing the prospects of a significantly reduced purse. So they are subjected to more cost and a lower purse. That is very disappointing and I feel like I am supporting that if I attend this event.

It's a long drive for mod fans to go watch a freight train at Loudon. That has happened in the last couple races, and it was painful. Giving the cat a bath is looking like a better option.

[JWfor8x]

As I've stated before, I'm not going to comment on the specifics of a race purse. Is it less than last year's July race? ... Yes. Is it more than last year's August race? ... Yes. Is it still the highest paying race of the year? ... Yes. Beyond that, I'm not going to be able to comment.

The reason for the midway break is very simple. If you're aware of what goes on in the other NASCAR touring series, then you know that midway breaks are not a new concept. We've had more than 30 races dating back to at least 2005 that have had a midway break, including Whelen Modified Tour races at Martinsville, Bristol and Delaware. ... It is designed as a cost-savings measure for the teams.

Now you will say, "we've been racing at Loudon for 20 years and never needed a midway break before." That may be true, but team owners have been very clear in asking for help with cutting down on travel and at-track expenses. The result of that is the upcoming race weekend at NHMS. The off day on Friday has been eliminated, and teams can now also travel with fewer crew members because there are no live pit stops. The K&N East race at NHMS in September will have a midway break, and in fact, 4 of their 14 races this year have a break. The bottom line here is ... this had nothing to do with fuel mileage of one engine vs. another.

And while I'm being asked questions from you all, will you allow me to turn it around? Please explain why things like a gear rule change, a 5-minute midway break, and a different purse for the competitors in any way changes whether you wish to attend a race or not? I'm assuming you all still believe this is the best race of the year, so how does any of the above affects whether you would want to witness it? I will grant you that the midway break can potentially take away 30 seconds of excitement and intrigue, but what about the other 1 hour and 15 minutes of action?

First, in answer to your question, those changes are not the deciding factor for me as to whether or not I choose to attend that particular race. For example, NASCAR has implemented the ridiculous free pass rule that not only adds at least one extra lap of yellow to each caution but is contrary to everything that racing is all about and yet, I still go. When I attend a tour race at Riverhead, I am invariably stunned by how poorly the Tour officials run the race compared to the regular track ones. I can't think of a better example of that than two years ago. On the first restart, the pace car had his lights on on the final caution lap before the green only turning them off in the fourth turn. The pace car was on the track blocking the leader, George Brunnhoelzl lll when the starter threw the green. By the time the pace car cleared the track, Brunnhoelzl was in third. I have been attending races since the 1950's and have never seen anything as bad as that happen before and yet, I still go. That does not make it right. The midway break does more than potentially take away 30 seconds of excitement and intrigue. It potentially takes away excitement and intrigue from the entire first half of the race. I think your point about saving owners money could be valid, but since you wanted to turn it around to be strictly from a fans perspective with your question, do you really think most casual fans going to see the race know about or care about things like the spec motor or the gear rule at all? I don't. They want to see exciting racing and just because NASCAR chooses to do things in 4 of 14 races really doesn't matter to them. They don't want a 5 minute break in the action, they want to see a race.

[RGeeProductions]

Acadia, the gear rule isn't such a bad idea as you state. Yes, you do have to buy a quick change if you run a straight rear, as we do, but the purpose was to get the rpm's down on the BUILT motors. Only those with mega dollars can have these motors built and that's an advantage. This does help those who can not afford the $$$$ to be somewhat competitive.

I am not sure that this will effect drafting as much as you think. I think we will still have a good race here.

And I like Jason's closing statement. Why this "in any way changes whether you wish to attend a race or not?"
I don't see any drivers (maybe 1 hiding under fake registered info) or team owner complaining here, mostly fans.

[MOD JUNKIE]

Who is running the spec engine ? I didn't know anyone was using it unless nascar supplies one to a team.

[RGeeProductions]

Who is running the spec engine ? I didn't know anyone was using it unless nascar supplies one to a team.
NASCAR supplies it to a team?
I have heard a few have them but don't know who will actually be running them till race weekend.
It's available to any team for $25,000. If you go to a tour race, check by the NASCAR trailer. They have the handout sheet with all the info.

[MOD JUNKIE]

NASCAR supplies it to a team?
I have heard a few have them but don't know who will actually be running them till race weekend.
It's available to any team for $25,000. If you go to a tour race, check by the NASCAR trailer. They have the handout sheet with all the info.

All I know of the spec engine being used is when nascar supplied one for test in a few races like LW Miller a while back at New Hamsphire. I was just wondering who is using that engine on the tour instead of using the built motor.

[Acadia]

But if the spec motored cars have to stop for fuel and the builts do not.... remember 850cfm carb here....
fuel and tires separate stops here.....

The spec motor uses the 850 cfm carb to make up where it lacks in head work. The spec motor is choked by the valve train and heads. It is far less expensive to bolt on a bigger carb than to massage the heads for more flow. The built motor has free flowing heads and is choked by the 390 cfm carb. An 850 CFM carb on a built motor would be crazy fast.

The spec motor has a 2X carb and still can't breathe... wonder why?

[MOD JUNKIE]

ok so I looked up the spec motor and it comes as a yates ford. Not picking chevy or ford but nascar seems to be wanting a "ford" modified series. Why are there no chevy spec motors ? A few of us still like to pull for our car brand still and without a chevy-ford battle it takes some of the interest away. Thinking nobody is using this spec motor anyways.

[RGeeProductions]

MOD JUNKIE, how would you know what motor they are running? We run a chevy now but come NHMS we will run a Ford. We use the same car, same body. Not like full bodied cars which run body to match motor.
And as of right now, there are at least 2 teams that have a spec motor but have not run them on the tour yet. Sorry, I am on a tour team and also involved with media (thechromehorn.com), but unless a team, driver or anyone else whats their info put out, I do not say anything specific about it. I get respect from them that way and find out a lot of info this way due to trust of that fact.

Growing up I was always a GM man. I had a few fords and can't complain but much more GM vehicles.
With that being said, I feel Ford makes a better motor for modifieds.
From what I have been told, when the peak of the torque curve is reached, chevy drops off rather quickly where a ford drops a lot slower. Makes sense for a modified motor. (maybe the reason for a gear rule to equal the field???)
Some NHMS testing video from June 5, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klAsmGR9Y1M

Was said, by the Yates representative at Stafford's Spring Sizzler, it takes a bit of difference driving the Spec motor. Heavy crank so different driving style compared to a light crank built motor. Corey LaJoie did pretty well qualifying (2) his car and running the race, for the short time he did race. Pretty impressive for first time there.

[RGeeProductions]

Actual NASCAR Spec Motor hand out sheet...

2667 2668

[SteveS]

ok so I looked up the spec motor and it comes as a yates ford. Not picking chevy or ford but nascar seems to be wanting a "ford" modified series. Why are there no chevy spec motors ? A few of us still like to pull for our car brand still and without a chevy-ford battle it takes some of the interest away. Thinking nobody is using this spec motor anyways.

The spec motor is supplied by Yates, but it is a Chevy engine.

[Ben Althen]

ok so I looked up the spec motor and it comes as a yates ford. Not picking chevy or ford but nascar seems to be wanting a "ford" modified series. Why are there no chevy spec motors ? A few of us still like to pull for our car brand still and without a chevy-ford battle it takes some of the interest away. Thinking nobody is using this spec motor anyways.

The spec motor is not a Ford, it is a GM LS2.

[Acadia]

Although that looks like a Ford, here's the text description from RYR about the NASCAR spec engine:

"The NASCAR-Approved Spec Engine is an alternative for competitors in the NASCAR K&N Pro Series, NASCAR Whelen Modified Tour, NASCAR Whelen Southern Modified Tour, and NASCAR Canadian Tire Series. It is also an option for the NASCAR Camping World Truck Series at select tracks.

During the 2010 season over 300 engines ran in competition. Combined they produced 23 victories, 120 top-five finishes and 229 top ten finishes; with teams reporting an average annual cost savings of $70,000 – $80,000 when compared to running “built” engines.

The foundation of the NASCAR-Approved Spec Engine is a production GM LS2 block (6.0L / 4.000) with LS2 CNC ported heads. Fully assembled the 364 cubic inch engine weighs around 415 pounds and produces approximately 600hp and 495 ft-lbs of torque. It’s components come from many of the best aftermarket companies including:..."

This spec engine has been around for a while and it is not catching on. Must be a good reason.

[RGeeProductions]

Sorry I didn't mention that.
Yes it is a chevy. My comparison of a chevy to ford made it sound like it is a ford. I was speaking of built motors and didn't specify that. :)


This spec engine has been around for a while and it is not catching on. Must be a good reason.

NOTE: The spec engine has been around for awhile. This engine is quite different and many changes have been made compared to previous versions.

[SteveS]

Nascar keeps trying to ram this down the tours throat in the interest of saving money and now they will give a half way break since the big carbed spec motor can't go the distance. They keep tweaking it to make it more competitive all in the interest of "saving the car owners money". The blocks have no durability and probably don't have a lap life 40-50% as long as a real engine before they are junk- so half the money, twice as often=savings sounds like government math. I suspect the real deal is Nascar has a stake in the spec motor but in the interest of not appearing to be a dictatorship they will make it optional, just keep tweaking the gear rule/restrictor plate until the spec has an advantage and then it is the car owners "decision". Does it really make a difference if the amount of money they save the owners just gets siphoned from the purse?

[MOD JUNKIE]

Thanks for the input guys and RG that video is so cool.
I thought the chevy RO7 was the only chevy motor with the dist. in the front and figured it was a ford. That being said and I am a chevy guy why is there not a ford spec motor availible to keep both sides happy ?
RG I know a few drivers (north n south) and the feeling for the most part are that the chevy ford built motors are pretty close but that the ford might be a little bit better restrictor plate motor. I believe the ford piece is a newer one then that of the chevy but with a 390 carb they are kept close.
I still don't understand why the big secret of the spec piece when it's in use you can hear the difference and while the hood is off you can see it. I do know a number of teams switch between motors and not the body style.
Thanks again.:cheers:

[NWMT PR]

This thread is a perfect example of why I sometimes question why I even bother participating. I specifically outlined why the midway break is taking place, and that types of engines have no bearing whatsoever, then two subsequent posts completely reset the topic back to it being all about the engine as if my explanation never even existed. Folks, I have no reason to spin this. If you don’t like the concept of a midway break, I get it, but please don’t try to make it something that it’s not.

JWfor8x … I understand the point you are making about the midway break from a fan’s perspective. And I also see your point about what fans want versus what car owners want … which is interesting, because most of the people on here talk more like they are a car owner than a fan. If we had more discussion on here about the actual fan experience (good and bad), and less about gear rules and race purses, then I think this forum could be more productive.

Acadia … Your last sentence is partially correct. The spec engine is essentially the only engine that K&N teams elect to use. They all made the switch, voluntarily, a handful of years ago. You are correct in that it has not caught on in the Modified Tours as of yet, but again, it’s voluntary. And yes, there were initial criticisms of how the spec performs in a Modified, so the natural progression from an R&D standpoint would be to address those criticisms.

SteveS … If saving money was in fact a fool’s gold claim, then why haven’t the other touring series switched back to built motors? The spec motor project is now seven or eight years old at this point, if it proved to not be a better option, I think they would have gone back the other way by now. Acadia posted the advertised per-team savings of 70-80K, and that was based on the 2010 season, which was only a 10-race schedule for the K&N East.

[Sicklajoie]

When will NASCAR realize that all these rules that are supposed to help teams save money do nothing but force them to spend MORE money.

[scott]

I'm a fan although starting to loose interest due to frieght trains and lousy shows. The car is supposed to be a modified, at least that's what they were back in the 1960s & early 70s, there were no spec motors, it was work on your own motor and see how good you were. The "modified" of today is an illusion of someone in Daytona wanting to make an equal playing field like in today's school sports where everybody wins whether you suck or not. There are usually more than enough cautions in a race, a half way point one is just stupid, remember cautions breed cautions.

[MJProcko]

"During the 2010 season over 300 engines ran in competition. Combined they produced 23 victories, 120 top-five finishes and 229 top ten finishes; with teams reporting an average annual cost savings of $70,000 – $80,000 when compared to running “built” engines."

how many of those were on the modified tour? If virtually every team in the K&N series is running them it's a pretty misleading stat.

[Acadia]

Oh yeah... If the spec engine cost is $25,000, where does the annual cost savings of $70,000 - $80,000 come from?



"During the 2010 season over 300 engines ran in competition. Combined they produced 23 victories, 120 top-five finishes and 229 top ten finishes; with teams reporting an average annual cost savings of $70,000 – $80,000 when compared to running “built” engines."

how many of those were on the modified tour? If virtually every team in the K&N series is running them it's a pretty misleading stat.

[uticamike]

Jason, many on here are more than just "fans" as you say. They also crew on a team and in fact all of us are fans or we wouldn't be here. The one Modified race that NASCAR

could justify treating like the "big3" its's this one and now your implementing a "competition" yellow to save them money while they race for a reduced purse. You get why

that might irritate people right? I myself don't work a the WMT so maybe I'm out of line asking but this I don't get. Why would NASCAR mess with the best show they have in

any series.? Maybe any series anywhere.

[MJProcko]

As I've stated before, I'm not going to comment on the specifics of a race purse. Is it less than last year's July race? ... Yes. Is it more than last year's August race? ... Yes. Is it still the highest paying race of the year? ... Yes. Beyond that, I'm not going to be able to comment.

The reason for the midway break is very simple. If you're aware of what goes on in the other NASCAR touring series, then you know that midway breaks are not a new concept. We've had more than 30 races dating back to at least 2005 that have had a midway break, including Whelen Modified Tour races at Martinsville, Bristol and Delaware. ... It is designed as a cost-savings measure for the teams.

Now you will say, "we've been racing at Loudon for 20 years and never needed a midway break before." That may be true, but team owners have been very clear in asking for help with cutting down on travel and at-track expenses. The result of that is the upcoming race weekend at NHMS. The off day on Friday has been eliminated, and teams can now also travel with fewer crew members because there are no live pit stops. The K&N East race at NHMS in September will have a midway break, and in fact, 4 of their 14 races this year have a break. The bottom line here is ... this had nothing to do with fuel mileage of one engine vs. another.

And while I'm being asked questions from you all, will you allow me to turn it around? Please explain why things like a gear rule change, a 5-minute midway break, and a different purse for the competitors in any way changes whether you wish to attend a race or not? I'm assuming you all still believe this is the best race of the year, so how does any of the above affects whether you would want to witness it? I will grant you that the midway break can potentially take away 30 seconds of excitement and intrigue, but what about the other 1 hour and 15 minutes of action?

You ask "Are we aware of what's going on in the other Nascar touring series"?????? Yes.
They are getting TV deals.
They Are getting bigger purses.
They Are getting bigger point funds.
They Are getting more contingency awards.
They Are getting more attention from Nascar.
The tracks that host their races are getting help from Nascar to keep the ticket prices at 20 bucks.

You say they eliminated the Friday activity to save the teams money and the 5 minute break is to eliminate the need for more crew members. I believe the cost was for the crew members to take off from work during the week, so being there on just Saturday is the same as if they were going to Riverhead.

I'm curious, are they only going to be allowed pit during this break?
Are they restricted on how many guys can go over the wall for the other 99 laps?
Do the cars go out in the same order they came in? If not the teams with more members will still be out faster.

If the race is running long and starts creeping into the TV time for the next race and the big suit in the tower starts telling them to cut the race I'd bet most fans would prefer to have spent those 5 minutes racing.

I've said this 100 times, Nascar has the ability to make the WMT the best series by far along the East Cost. The problem is Nascar has to want to do it. Either make it thrive or just keep it breathing enough to suckit dry in license, sanction and inspection fees. the choice is theirs.

[Acadia]

NWMT PR... Most people here sound like owners because they understand that the purse doesn't come close to covering the cost to run a car. These people want to see the Tour thrive and absolutely respect and appreciate owners that run competitive cars. In order to assure the future of the Tour, we fans need to take the perspective of an owner. Also, the folks here are also very knowledgeable and very technical, your worst fan.

NWMT PR, why aren't the monetary winnings posted with the results anymore? Sort of embarrassing for the Tour when the champion wins $70,000 for a season, eh? Forget covering costs even if you always take first place.

It is interesting how you don't want things like the gear rule and purses discussed. These are things that suck and need to be discussed, not kept out of sight like winnings. If you don't want things discussed, fix them so they don't have to be discussed.

So from the perspective of a fan, the competition caution sucks. There are too many yellows as it is, there are too few long runs. Imagine Szegedy, Newman, Preece, Silk, Lia and Santos are swapping the lead and the comp yellow flies. That will completely suck. Can't it wait for one of the all too many yellows that happen anyways and call that the comp yellow? Figure out a range, say from lap 45 to 65, if a caution happens in that range, make that the competition caution for all to service their cars. But do not wave another yellow flag!!!!! Or what about setting a rule that there are only so many over the wall crew and forget the comp yellow?

From the perspective of a fan, the gear meddling sucks. It will ruin this race. This race is a horsepower event. This is not a track to try to reduce the performance of the built motors to close the gap with the spec motor. The two most exciting aspects of the Loudon race are the draft pass and dive pass that will be eliminated with this gear rule. The cars won't have the reserve pull needed to make those moves anymore. And if this is supposed to be some sort of cost reduction, I think it won't work for teams and engine builders will come up with Loudon engine packages to tailor the torque curve for the new gear and restrictor plate.

From the perspective of a fan, the reduced purse sucks. The average fan sees a car win $3,600 bucks on Friday night and it looks impressive. But they have no idea it cost far more to run the event. I feel for the owners that do this for it is a hobby and the cost has got to be a very big factor in deciding to continue the hobby. The car counts show reason for all to be concerned with the deficient purses, fans and owners alike.




This thread is a perfect example of why I sometimes question why I even bother participating. I specifically outlined why the midway break is taking place, and that types of engines have no bearing whatsoever, then two subsequent posts completely reset the topic back to it being all about the engine as if my explanation never even existed. Folks, I have no reason to spin this. If you don’t like the concept of a midway break, I get it, but please don’t try to make it something that it’s not.

JWfor8x … I understand the point you are making about the midway break from a fan’s perspective. And I also see your point about what fans want versus what car owners want … which is interesting, because most of the people on here talk more like they are a car owner than a fan. If we had more discussion on here about the actual fan experience (good and bad), and less about gear rules and race purses, then I think this forum could be more productive.

Acadia … Your last sentence is partially correct. The spec engine is essentially the only engine that K&N teams elect to use. They all made the switch, voluntarily, a handful of years ago. You are correct in that it has not caught on in the Modified Tours as of yet, but again, it’s voluntary. And yes, there were initial criticisms of how the spec performs in a Modified, so the natural progression from an R&D standpoint would be to address those criticisms.

SteveS … If saving money was in fact a fool’s gold claim, then why haven’t the other touring series switched back to built motors? The spec motor project is now seven or eight years old at this point, if it proved to not be a better option, I think they would have gone back the other way by now. Acadia posted the advertised per-team savings of 70-80K, and that was based on the 2010 season, which was only a 10-race schedule for the K&N East.

[RGeeProductions]

You say they eliminated the Friday activity to save the teams money and the 5 minute break is to eliminate the need for more crew members. I believe the cost was for the crew members to take off from work during the week, so being there on just Saturday is the same as if they were going to Riverhead.

You misread that.
Friday was a NO activity in the past. Qualify Thursday (hence take off work), sit and do nothing Friday, race Saturday.
They now moved qualifying to Friday (still need a pit crew to practice and qualify), race Saturday.

[RGeeProductions]

"There are too many yellows as it is, there are too few long runs."
Yup Acadia, let's have some long runs. Let's spread the cars all around the track. That IS what happens on long runs at any track. Bet there will be a lot of passing then. There will be a bit of good racing for a few laps then freight train time.
I am not promoting cautions nor do I like too many cautions in a race but having a few does bunch the field back up, especially at NHMS.
And the gear rule was to make the race more competitive FOR ALL. The high $$$$$$ BUILT motors were reving up way to high and over 1/2 the field could not keep up with that, unless they won the lottery to have a high reving motor also. This levels the field more for the BUILT motors more then favoring the FEW Spec motors that MAY run.
The days of competition like in the days past are gone. The best racing was when chassis' were home built and motors were built in a garage or a local speed shop, in my opinion, and I have been watching modifieds for 48 years. It just isn't that anymore. It's all about $$$$$ and technology now.
Disappointed about a lower purse, yeah I am a bit, but if we finish this race in the same position we did last year, we will make more money as more was moved to the lower end of the payout.
The gear rule, it may give us a chance to better our finishing position over last year knowing the big $$$$ and the high reving engines can't get as much of an advantage this year over the normal and low budget teams.
This may turn out to be something that everyone is not expecting.... and that's a good damn race!

[NONCENT$]

"There are too many yellows as it is, there are too few long runs."
Yup Acadia, let's have some long runs. Let's spread the cars all around the track. That IS what happens on long runs at any track. Bet there will be a lot of passing then. There will be a bit of good racing for a few laps then freight train time.
I am not promoting cautions nor do I like too many cautions in a race but having a few does bunch the field back up, especially at NHMS.
And the gear rule was to make the race more competitive FOR ALL. The high $$$$$$ BUILT motors were reving up way to high and over 1/2 the field could not keep up with that, unless they won the lottery to have a high reving motor also. This levels the field more for the BUILT motors more then favoring the FEW Spec motors that MAY run.
The days of competition like in the days past are gone. The best racing was when chassis' were home built and motors were built in a garage or a local speed shop, in my opinion, and I have been watching modifieds for 48 years. It just isn't that anymore. It's all about $$$$$ and technology now.
Disappointed about a lower purse, yeah I am a bit, but if we finish this race in the same position we did last year, we will make more money as more was moved to the lower end of the payout.
The gear rule, it may give us a chance to better our finishing position over last year knowing the big $$$$ and the high reving engines can't get as much of an advantage this year over the normal and low budget teams.
This may turn out to be something that everyone is not expecting.... and that's a good damn race!

The problem is not too many cautions......, the problem is too many caution flag laps !!

[MJProcko]

You misread that.
Friday was a NO activity in the past. Qualify Thursday (hence take off work), sit and do nothing Friday, race Saturday.
They now moved qualifying to Friday (still need a pit crew to practice and qualify), race Saturday.

You are correct Richie.

[wrench1]

:confused:
This thread is a perfect example of why I sometimes question why I even bother participating. I specifically outlined why the midway break is taking place, and that types of engines have no bearing whatsoever, then two subsequent posts completely reset the topic back to it being all about the engine as if my explanation never even existed. Folks, I have no reason to spin this. If you don’t like the concept of a midway break, I get it, but please don’t try to make it something that it’s not.

JWfor8x … I understand the point you are making about the midway break from a fan’s perspective. And I also see your point about what fans want versus what car owners want … which is interesting, because most of the people on here talk more like they are a car owner than a fan. If we had more discussion on here about the actual fan experience (good and bad), and less about gear rules and race purses, then I think this forum could be more productive.

Acadia … Your last sentence is partially correct. The spec engine is essentially the only engine that K&N teams elect to use. They all made the switch, voluntarily, a handful of years ago. You are correct in that it has not caught on in the Modified Tours as of yet, but again, it’s voluntary. And yes, there were initial criticisms of how the spec performs in a Modified, so the natural progression from an R&D standpoint would be to address those criticisms.

SteveS … If saving money was in fact a fool’s gold claim, then why haven’t the other touring series switched back to built motors? The spec motor project is now seven or eight years old at this point, if it proved to not be a better option, I think they would have gone back the other way by now. Acadia posted the advertised per-team savings of 70-80K, and that was based on the 2010 season, which was only a 10-race schedule for the K&N East.

[wrench1]

You are correct Richie.

who is going to beleive a thing nascar has to say anyhow?????????????.they are going to do what ever they want.its their sandbox.we all have to do want the fans would like to see.someday i hope,nascar wakes up,before its toooooo late.one can only hope.

[Magicshoes12]

From the perspective of a fan, the reduced purse sucks. The average fan sees a car win $3,600 bucks on Friday night and it looks impressive. .

Where do you go racing on Friday Nights?

Stafford Motor Speedway pays $1400 to the winner of the SK Feature
Thompson Speedway pays $1400 for a normal feature winner in the SK's

[Acadia]

We are talking Tour here, and the night the winnings occur was not the point.



Where do you go racing on Friday Nights?

Stafford Motor Speedway pays $1400 to the winner of the SK Feature
Thompson Speedway pays $1400 for a normal feature winner in the SK's

[mikel 3]

There is a very simple way to put the gas/spec engine crap to rest.If the reason that the break was not that it was put in to save the spec engine prove it.Make it that no one is allowed to take gas on the 50 lap break end of story.Make the rule put up or shut up,end of story.

[NWMT PR]

MJProcko …
The tracks that host their races are getting help from Nascar to keep the ticket prices at 20 bucks.
You think NASCAR cuts a track a better deal for a K&N race than a Whelen Modified race? As is well documented on this forum, the K&N purse is higher, so I’m not sure how that would work out. You’d have to ask the tracks about the economics of their ticket prices.

I'm curious, are they only going to be allowed pit during this break?
Are they restricted on how many guys can go over the wall for the other 99 laps?
Do the cars go out in the same order they came in? If not the teams with more members will still be out faster.
Same rules as when we’ve had a midway break at Bristol, Martinsville and Delaware.

If the race is running long and starts creeping into the TV time for the next race and the big suit in the tower starts telling them to cut the race I'd bet most fans would prefer to have spent those 5 minutes racing.
The Nationwide Series race will have its broadcast window, and that will not change. ABC/ESPN is not going to go into a delay with live TV. But let’s be real, unless there are weather issues, then two hours should be more than enough time for 100 Modified laps.


Acadia …
Sorry, maybe it’s just me, but I still don’t get it. Personally, I couldn’t care less how much the players on my favorite teams make, how much the owner makes, or how much the arena makes. At the end of the day, if you’re a fan sitting in the stands, are you walking back to your car talking about how the race finished or about how much money is in the winner’s paycheck? It's admirable that you’re concerned about your fellow man, but do you care about how much the person sitting next to you in the grandstand is pulling down at their job? … Apples to oranges, maybe, but still.

As far as the technical aspects that you address as a concern, you’ve got a well thought out theory. At this point it really can be only classified as a theory, no? All I can say is, let’s let it play out, and at the end of the day evaluate whether the competition actually suffers or not.

Your point about picking a range of laps, 45-65 as you suggested, for the competition caution actually is in play for this race. The entry blank clearly states “at or near the conclusion of Lap 50.” In races that we’ve had midway breaks before, and there have been plenty (yes, even in the Mod Tour), this scenario usually works out that way. In my experience, more often than not a natural caution is turned into the midway break competition caution. It even happened that way in the Cup race at Pocono on Sunday. Would we go all the way to 60 or 65 hoping for a caution, not likely, but the possibility is quite reasonable for it to occur naturally.

All ...
The feedback here, the part of it that is constructive, is good stuff. Let's keep it going.

Hope some of you are planning to come to Waterford. Should be fun.


thanks,
Jason

[BigMac]

I get that Nascar is listening to the teams in an attempt to save them money.I think Nascar deserves kudos for spacing out the 2012 schedule to ease up on the purse strings of both the teams and the fans. In terms of travel, last years schedule was brutal in Aug/Sept. However, Nascar had a no tire rule at Monadnock last month, presumably to save the teams money. After the race both the drivers and the fans said a one tire change would have provided more intrigue and strategy to the show. I'm not knocking Monadnock either. I enjoyed my time there and I hope the WMT is back there next year. Now take NHMS. Regardless of the reason for the break, it doesn't make it a better show. Its that simple. It might end up being as good a show. If it is then fine. If it isn't, how much money are the teams really saving and is it worth it if it affects the fans enjoyment level. The greatest part of being a modified fan is watching a driver come get tires late and make that charge thru the field as the laps tick away. Like TC did at Thompson last June. These breaks all but eliminate the possibilityof having one of those moments. In all honesty, if there was one thing fans would ask of Nascar it would probably be that you not mess with the NHMS races. That is our 1 mile slice of heaven.

I see so much focus on Nascar's behalf to make the cars equal. They should focus on the races themselves. Richie Evans went to the HOF by winning most of the races he entered. With all of the focus on the cars there are honestly still only 6 or 8 cars,maybe 10 that can win the NHMS race. Fans know that going in. We're good with it. Just give us a good race with as few cautions as possible. I'm going to Star Speedway on Saturday to watch a 125 lap green flag race that is only going to cost me $25 at the gate. Thats what fans want. Well that and a Saturday WMT race at Bristol.

[Acadia]

One of my favorite quotes is, "I can teach, but I can't make them understand." - unknown

NWMT PR, why was the Mod winnings pulled from the results pages, but the winnings continue to be included for the Cup, NW and Truck results?

I don't care how much players on the Rangers, Caps, Yankees, etc. make. I don't care how much the owners of those teams make. I don't care how much the arenas for those teams make. They are financially sound and not at risk. At the end of the day, when I'm walking back to my car after a race, you are damn right I'm talking about the winner's paycheck and how lucky we are that this Tour has owners willing to continue the sport when so many have dropped out, or left to another series, because the disparity between winnings and cost to run. This is clear since there are cars that come out for a handful of events, or part-timers. I'm sure they wish they could afford to run a full season. If the purses were healthier, more cars would run. In case you haven't noticed, there hasn't been many full fields in a long time. That doesn't concern you?!?!??!??!!?! What part of that don't you get? Oh, I think you understand it, but I think you want the exposure it gets here to go away.

No, I really don't care what the guys sitting around me are making. And that too doesn't have anything to do with the disparity between winnings and cost to run a car.

And as far as what you think is a theory goes, things like gear ratios aren't theories, they are exact science. It is well known what changes to gear will do. You either know it and know it is exact science, or you don't know and think it is a theory. Really, high school physics explains it all. And simple machines that is taught in grammar school does it too.

Any idea why restrictor plate racing sucks, or why IROC doesn't exist any more? It is cookie cutter racing, it stinks. Why do that to the mods?

The mod race at NHMS is a horsepower event. In reality, only a few cars really have a chance to win, and that is well known, and it has been that way for years. If you are wondering about what the fans think about it, I don't think they care, they know NHMS will be a battle between a few. Only the best have a chance to win NHMS, look at the past winners, no surprises there.

What should be done about the best teams in other sports? Should the leagues intervene and dictate what players can play on what teams so no teams are better than the rest? Of course not, that would be absurd. Why do it here? Here goes, the Yankees are playing the Chicago Cubs, so that should mean that A-Rod, Jeter, Tex, Cano, CC, and Swisher aren't allowed to play because it wouldn't be fair.

And there are cars that run mega-buck motors that don't have a snowflakes chance in hades of winning at NHMS. Keep that in mind.

I'm glad you are thinking of using a naturally occurring caution for a comp caution, let me know if there's any other way I can help. ;)



Acadia …
Sorry, maybe it’s just me, but I still don’t get it. Personally, I couldn’t care less how much the players on my favorite teams make, how much the owner makes, or how much the arena makes. At the end of the day, if you’re a fan sitting in the stands, are you walking back to your car talking about how the race finished or about how much money is in the winner’s paycheck? It's admirable that you’re concerned about your fellow man, but do you care about how much the person sitting next to you in the grandstand is pulling down at their job? … Apples to oranges, maybe, but still.

As far as the technical aspects that you address as a concern, you’ve got a well thought out theory. At this point it really can be only classified as a theory, no? All I can say is, let’s let it play out, and at the end of the day evaluate whether the competition actually suffers or not.

Your point about picking a range of laps, 45-65 as you suggested, for the competition caution actually is in play for this race. The entry blank clearly states “at or near the conclusion of Lap 50.” In races that we’ve had midway breaks before, and there have been plenty (yes, even in the Mod Tour), this scenario usually works out that way. In my experience, more often than not a natural caution is turned into the midway break competition caution. It even happened that way in the Cup race at Pocono on Sunday. Would we go all the way to 60 or 65 hoping for a caution, not likely, but the possibility is quite reasonable for it to occur naturally.

All ...
The feedback here, the part of it that is constructive, is good stuff. Let's keep it going.

Hope some of you are planning to come to Waterford. Should be fun.


thanks,
Jason

[Rentawrench]

Jason tell me WHY they had a Halfway break at Martinsville & Bristol ? Were these combo races with the Southern tour ? Were those Breaks because the SOUTH teams could Not fuel an had no firesuits an equipment on the cars ? The Halfway break started with the CWTS,WHY did they STOP doing it?

Yes Most all the K&N teams use the Spec, But it's an "Voluntary" you said. Read your Rules Teams Running Toyota MUST run the spec.

IF the gear rule was Not the HELP one over the other why not just change the plate size . ( that would have cost NASCAR)

Also Stick with your" Pitchfork & Torch" Mentallity about the FANS. There the Reason you have a JOB, ASK the former holders of your job,your the Corp Spin Doctor. The Fans ( Hopefully)will Still be here when your gone.

No need for the Break Just cut the length of the race an keep the purse the same . We have Seen All the Rules come & Go on How NASCAR will SAVE Owners Money. But this year the Purse is going Down an the Cost Just to enter has gone up.

[stabone]

Well Said Rentawrench ALL FACt WHAT YOU SAId.....ANYWAYS I know theres a another thread.....But 1 more day to the SBM 125!!!! Come on People lets pack the place we are gona need more and more of these races the way the TOUR is going!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wrench1]

Craig, If you were an owner on the WMT and were running for a Championship, would you skip this race? Would you lose your Championship points? Would you pass on the opportunity at Winning $10,000? If these guys are there to make money then they are in the wrong sport. Get out of racing completely. And I'm not a big Burton Smith fan, but would you want to screw the guy who pays the tour's 3 biggest purses of the season for a regular points race? If you guys complain so much about the WMT just go to the VMRS Tour, Take it for what it is. If fans stop going they stop going, That isn't going to effect Nascar's Billion Dollar Business, yes it'll effect the WMT but that isn't the only Modified Tour out there.

who thinks the 7ny will show up with a crate motor,oh yeah

[MJProcko]

The tracks that host their races are getting help from Nascar to keep the ticket prices at 20 bucks.
You think NASCAR cuts a track a better deal for a K&N race than a Whelen Modified race? As is well documented on this forum, the K&N purse is higher, so I’m not sure how that would work out. You’d have to ask the tracks about the economics of their ticprices.ket

Well, since I am so wrong, I sent tfolks at GMP an email congratulating them on being able to put a Nascar K&N series race on Television with a bigger purse and bigger point fund than the upcoming WMT races at Stafford & Thompson. And, despite a smaller seating capacity, they did it all this for only 20 bucks, half the ticket he price of Stafford and Thompson, all with no break from NAscar. They are the my early favorites for the Promoter of the year in the seasons end speed 51 voting.


I'm curious, are they only going to be allowed pit during this break?
Are they restricted on how many guys can go over the wall for the other 99 laps?
Do the cars go out in the same order they came in? If not the teams with more members will still be out faster.
Same rules as when we’ve had a midway break at Bristol, Martinsville and Delaware.

And those rules would be????

[MOD JUNKIE]

who thinks the 7ny will show up with a crate motor,oh yeah

He might have to with the ford being a better motor lol. Wait, chevy's are still winning plenty of race's and recent championships so if the ford is that much better then I have a lot of respect for the drivers n teams still getting it done with the lesser bow-tie stuff.

[RacnJason00]

could someone from nascar, loudon, phil k. Of whelen or even burtin smith explain the motive behind cutting the modified purse at loundon $17,165 cash. First cut $4,000, second cut $3,800 and third cut $1,800. This has to make everyone on the tour sick.

The owners of the modifieds on this tour are the most dedicated racers i've even seen in any sport and race for next to nothing, now you want to take that away.

I have tried to stick up for the wmt for years, but this is total disgrace to all of the owners, drivers, fans that support this tour. It makes me sick and i don't even own a car on the tour.

Nascar if you want to kill this great tour just do it and stop the slow death.

Phil k. Of whelen : I know this is not your fault, but with that said you need to step up to the plate and tell nascar this isn't right.

If this is not corrected the owners should not show up for the loudon race. Screw nascar and screw burton smith.

Go ahead nascar pr man jc. Lets see you put a spin on this one.

Craig a. Gabriele

very well said.... This blows

[MOD11RACER]

Craig, If you were an owner on the WMT and were running for a Championship, would you skip this race? Would you lose your Championship points? Would you pass on the opportunity at Winning $10,000? If these guys are there to make money then they are in the wrong sport. Get out of racing completely. And I'm not a big Burton Smith fan, but would you want to screw the guy who pays the tour's 3 biggest purses of the season for a regular points race? If you guys complain so much about the WMT just go to the VMRS Tour, Take it for what it is. If fans stop going they stop going, That isn't going to effect Nascar's Billion Dollar Business, yes it'll effect the WMT but that isn't the only Modified Tour out there.

Absolutely YES and I have owned Modifeds in the past. The Tour doesn't need Loudon anymore if this is the way thay are going to be treated. They should end all of Modified racing altogether.

[MOD11RACER]

as i've stated before, i'm not going to comment on the specifics of a race purse. Is it less than last year's july race? ... Yes. Is it more than last year's august race? ... Yes. Is it still the highest paying race of the year? ... Yes. Beyond that, i'm not going to be able to comment.

The reason for the midway break is very simple. If you're aware of what goes on in the other nascar touring series, then you know that midway breaks are not a new concept. We've had more than 30 races dating back to at least 2005 that have had a midway break, including whelen modified tour races at martinsville, bristol and delaware. ... It is designed as a cost-savings measure for the teams.

Now you will say, "we've been racing at loudon for 20 years and never needed a midway break before." that may be true, but team owners have been very clear in asking for help with cutting down on travel and at-track expenses. The result of that is the upcoming race weekend at nhms. The off day on friday has been eliminated, and teams can now also travel with fewer crew members because there are no live pit stops. The k&n east race at nhms in september will have a midway break, and in fact, 4 of their 14 races this year have a break. The bottom line here is ... This had nothing to do with fuel mileage of one engine vs. Another.

And while i'm being asked questions from you all, will you allow me to turn it around? Please explain why things like a gear rule change, a 5-minute midway break, and a different purse for the competitors in any way changes whether you wish to attend a race or not? I'm assuming you all still believe this is the best race of the year, so how does any of the above affects whether you would want to witness it? I will grant you that the midway break can potentially take away 30 seconds of excitement and intrigue, but what about the other 1 hour and 15 minutes of action?

spin, spin, spin

[MOD11RACER]

This thread is a perfect example of why I sometimes question why I even bother participating. I specifically outlined why the midway break is taking place, and that types of engines have no bearing whatsoever, then two subsequent posts completely reset the topic back to it being all about the engine as if my explanation never even existed. Folks, I have no reason to spin this. If you don’t like the concept of a midway break, I get it, but please don’t try to make it something that it’s not.

JWfor8x … I understand the point you are making about the midway break from a fan’s perspective. And I also see your point about what fans want versus what car owners want … which is interesting, because most of the people on here talk more like they are a car owner than a fan. If we had more discussion on here about the actual fan experience (good and bad), and less about gear rules and race purses, then I think this forum could be more productive.

Acadia … Your last sentence is partially correct. The spec engine is essentially the only engine that K&N teams elect to use. They all made the switch, voluntarily, a handful of years ago. You are correct in that it has not caught on in the Modified Tours as of yet, but again, it’s voluntary. And yes, there were initial criticisms of how the spec performs in a Modified, so the natural progression from an R&D standpoint would be to address those criticisms.

SteveS … If saving money was in fact a fool’s gold claim, then why haven’t the other touring series switched back to built motors? The spec motor project is now seven or eight years old at this point, if it proved to not be a better option, I think they would have gone back the other way by now. Acadia posted the advertised per-team savings of 70-80K, and that was based on the 2010 season, which was only a 10-race schedule for the K&N East.

Jason: You and NASCAR know squart about Modifieds or the fans. WE DO NOT WANT TO BE LIKE OTHER TOURING SERIES TAHT SUCK WITH EMPTY GRANDSTANDS AND IF YOU WANT US TO BE LIKE MIKE THEN PAY US.

[MOD11RACER]

jason, many on here are more than just "fans" as you say. They also crew on a team and in fact all of us are fans or we wouldn't be here. The one modified race that nascar

could justify treating like the "big3" its's this one and now your implementing a "competition" yellow to save them money while they race for a reduced purse. You get why

that might irritate people right? I myself don't work a the wmt so maybe i'm out of line asking but this i don't get. Why would nascar mess with the best show they have in

any series.? Maybe any series anywhere.

agree, agree, agree

[MOD11RACER]

nwmt pr... Most people here sound like owners because they understand that the purse doesn't come close to covering the cost to run a car. These people want to see the tour thrive and absolutely respect and appreciate owners that run competitive cars. In order to assure the future of the tour, we fans need to take the perspective of an owner. Also, the folks here are also very knowledgeable and very technical, your worst fan.

Nwmt pr, why aren't the monetary winnings posted with the results anymore? Sort of embarrassing for the tour when the champion wins $70,000 for a season, eh? Forget covering costs even if you always take first place.

It is interesting how you don't want things like the gear rule and purses discussed. These are things that suck and need to be discussed, not kept out of sight like winnings. If you don't want things discussed, fix them so they don't have to be discussed.

So from the perspective of a fan, the competition caution sucks. There are too many yellows as it is, there are too few long runs. Imagine szegedy, newman, preece, silk, lia and santos are swapping the lead and the comp yellow flies. That will completely suck. Can't it wait for one of the all too many yellows that happen anyways and call that the comp yellow? Figure out a range, say from lap 45 to 65, if a caution happens in that range, make that the competition caution for all to service their cars. But do not wave another yellow flag!!!!! Or what about setting a rule that there are only so many over the wall crew and forget the comp yellow?

From the perspective of a fan, the gear meddling sucks. It will ruin this race. This race is a horsepower event. This is not a track to try to reduce the performance of the built motors to close the gap with the spec motor. The two most exciting aspects of the loudon race are the draft pass and dive pass that will be eliminated with this gear rule. The cars won't have the reserve pull needed to make those moves anymore. And if this is supposed to be some sort of cost reduction, i think it won't work for teams and engine builders will come up with loudon engine packages to tailor the torque curve for the new gear and restrictor plate.

From the perspective of a fan, the reduced purse sucks. The average fan sees a car win $3,600 bucks on friday night and it looks impressive. But they have no idea it cost far more to run the event. I feel for the owners that do this for it is a hobby and the cost has got to be a very big factor in deciding to continue the hobby. The car counts show reason for all to be concerned with the deficient purses, fans and owners alike.

great post !!!!!!

[MOD11RACER]

Jason tell me WHY they had a Halfway break at Martinsville & Bristol ? Were these combo races with the Southern tour ? Were those Breaks because the SOUTH teams could Not fuel an had no firesuits an equipment on the cars ? The Halfway break started with the CWTS,WHY did they STOP doing it?

Yes Most all the K&N teams use the Spec, But it's an "Voluntary" you said. Read your Rules Teams Running Toyota MUST run the spec.

IF the gear rule was Not the HELP one over the other why not just change the plate size . ( that would have cost NASCAR)

Also Stick with your" Pitchfork & Torch" Mentallity about the FANS. There the Reason you have a JOB, ASK the former holders of your job,your the Corp Spin Doctor. The Fans ( Hopefully)will Still be here when your gone.

No need for the Break Just cut the length of the race an keep the purse the same . We have Seen All the Rules come & Go on How NASCAR will SAVE Owners Money. But this year the Purse is going Down an the Cost Just to enter has gone up.

You nailed it.

[MOD11RACER]

Jason: This race at Loundon is suppose too be special. The Modified Super Bowl. Now NASCAR wants it to be a plain Jane race like all of the other races. How does cutting $17,000 out of the purse make this race special? Like I said before Kill it if that’s your plan, because that's what's going to happen. Look at history son. Satfford Motor Speedway is the perfect example. They dropped the Real Modifieds and the track has never recovered to this day.

Chad Little called some of the teams and asked why the car counts were down and how we could improve on the car counts.

This was Chad Little's response.

1) The WMT with Chad Little at the Helm: Point Fund Cut from the top 20 positions to the top 15. That helped right?

2) Now lets cut the purse on the BIGGEST MODIFIED RACE of the year. That's going to help Right?

3) Lets push the Spec Motor on everybody, because all of the other Touring Series are running them and those series sure make for great racing. That's going in the right direction. Right?

I hope the owners boycott the race at Loudon. We run for nothing now so screw Burton Smith and everybody associated with Loudon. We don't need them.

Bristol Purse Sucks. Another track that should be canned. Been there done that.

NASCAR sure is arrogant, but we all know that.

Jason: What's going to happen when only 18 Modifieds show up at Loudon ? What will the spin doctors tell you to say then ?

Phil from Whelen where are you on this ????? Is this OK with you ????

[MOD11RACER]

Interesting some of the biggest Modified supporters (or fakers) have not commented on the purse cut. They sure ***** about how come the Tour gets screwed by NASCAR and the K&N, but no comment. Humm. One of them even thinks the purse cut was OK, because of the additional purse money of a total of $900 for positions 8TH thru 16TH. WOW ! What a trade off $900 for $17,165. They can't be to big of a fan. Then you try to tell them whats going on with who you have talked to and they tell you don't no a thing. That's why this is all BS. All talkers and no action takers.

Where the hell is AARN on this or any other reporter. They are complete sell outs. Oh I can't bad mouth NASCAR. I might have to pay to get in.

[RacnJason00]

Jason: This race at Loundon is suppose too be special. The Modified Super Bowl. Now NASCAR wants it to be a plain Jane race like all of the other races. How does cutting $17,000 out of the purse make this race special? Like I said before Kill it if that’s your plan, because that's what's going to happen. Look at history son. Satfford Motor Speedway is the perfect example. They dropped the Real Modifieds and the track has never recovered to this day.

Chad Little called some of the teams and asked why the car counts were down and how we could improve on the car counts.

This was Chad Little's response.

1) The WMT with Chad Little at the Helm: Point Fund Cut from the top 20 positions to the top 15. That helped right?

2) Now lets cut the purse on the BIGGEST MODIFIED RACE of the year. That's going to help Right?

3) Lets push the Spec Motor on everybody, because all of the other Touring Series are running them and those series sure make for great racing. That's going in the right direction. Right?

I hope the owners boycott the race at Loudon. We run for nothing now so screw Burton Smith and everybody associated with Loudon. We don't need them.

Bristol Purse Sucks. Another track that should be canned. Been there done that.

NASCAR sure is arrogant, but we all know that.

Jason: What's going to happen when only 18 Modifieds show up at Loudon ? What will the spin doctors tell you to say then ?

Phil from Whelen where are you on this ????? Is this OK with you ????

Owe I know. I agree. I was *****ing at Star last night about the mods and TV Time

[bud]

Mod11 you are the man. The teams are scared. Talk and it can only get worse. Think about this Hirshman won more last night at lil star speedway than most of the tour races pay! JASON LISTEN UP! THAT MY MAN IS PROMOTION!

[Acadia]

Hope some of you are planning to come to Waterford. Should be fun.


thanks,
Jason



So let's set up the time and place for us to meet up...

Any suggestions?

[Acadia]

There is a very simple way to put the gas/spec engine crap to rest.If the reason that the break was not that it was put in to save the spec engine prove it.Make it that no one is allowed to take gas on the 50 lap break end of story.Make the rule put up or shut up,end of story.

mikel 3, there is no gas/spec engine issue. Just because the spec engine has a 850 cfm carb doesn't mean it will consume more fuel. The spec engine does not have the free flowing heads the the built motors have that enable the built motor to make all that power with that itsy-bitsy teenie-weenie 390 cfm carb. Since the built motors can make the distance on one tank of gas, the lesser endowed spec motor simply has to be able to go the distance, or it just wasn't tuned properly. The spec motors don't make the power a built motor does, therefore it shouldn't consume more fuel than the built motor. The air-fuel ratio should be the same for both engines.

[RacnJason00]

Owe I know. I agree. I was *****ing at Star last night about the mods and TV Time

Sorry Im Jason too, thought you was talkiung to me as well...

[Acadia]

Interesting some of the biggest Modified supporters (or fakers) have not commented on the purse cut. They sure ***** about how come the Tour gets screwed by NASCAR and the K&N, but no comment. Humm. One of them even thinks the purse cut was OK, because of the additional purse money of a total of $900 for positions 8TH thru 16TH. WOW ! What a trade off $900 for $17,165. They can't be to big of a fan. Then you try to tell them whats going on with who you have talked to and they tell you don't no a thing. That's why this is all BS. All talkers and no action takers.

Where the hell is AARN on this or any other reporter. They are complete sell outs. Oh I can't bad mouth NASCAR. I might have to pay to get in.


Well, several years ago, the conditions were such that the MRS was formed. Prior to that, there was rumblings that the NASCAR Mod Tour series would leave NASCAR and go on their own. Now might be a good time to reconsider that. They could organize and run series of "open" shows. Let's face it, the open shows appear to be pretty successful. NASCAR does not appear to be a benefit to modified racing.

[Acadia]

"There are too many yellows as it is, there are too few long runs."
Yup Acadia, let's have some long runs. Let's spread the cars all around the track. That IS what happens on long runs at any track. Bet there will be a lot of passing then. There will be a bit of good racing for a few laps then freight train time.
I am not promoting cautions nor do I like too many cautions in a race but having a few does bunch the field back up, especially at NHMS.
And the gear rule was to make the race more competitive FOR ALL. The high $$$$$$ BUILT motors were reving up way to high and over 1/2 the field could not keep up with that, unless they won the lottery to have a high reving motor also. This levels the field more for the BUILT motors more then favoring the FEW Spec motors that MAY run.
The days of competition like in the days past are gone. The best racing was when chassis' were home built and motors were built in a garage or a local speed shop, in my opinion, and I have been watching modifieds for 48 years. It just isn't that anymore. It's all about $$$$$ and technology now.
Disappointed about a lower purse, yeah I am a bit, but if we finish this race in the same position we did last year, we will make more money as more was moved to the lower end of the payout.
The gear rule, it may give us a chance to better our finishing position over last year knowing the big $$$$ and the high reving engines can't get as much of an advantage this year over the normal and low budget teams.
This may turn out to be something that everyone is not expecting.... and that's a good damn race!


If cautions are your way of catching the leaders, find a new hobby.

Cautions suck. Cautions breed cautions. Cautions aren't racing. I'd rather see the cars leg it out, spread out with little passing, instead of a concatenation of restarts.

It's not all about $$$$ and technology now. There are a few modest teams that do very well, and many cars that have all the right parts and don't have a chance. There are a few teams that have the knowledge, and that makes the difference. It's fun watching those teams.

Leveling the field for the built motors as you said is not what the fans want to see at Loudon. I don't want to see the built motors kneecapped at Loudon. Loudon is a horsepower track and I want to see the cars leg it out. It's not all about the motor, but the ability to get the car to run and put the power down to the track. Many more have the potential power, but only a few know how to get the most of it and use it. Those that know how to make it all work shouldn't be affected at all because of those that can't figure it out.

I go to Loudon to see the 2,3,4,6,16,52,66, and 93 leg it out. As long as these cars do not have bad luck, one of these cars will win. I'm ok with that, that's what I expect, these cars are consistently the best at putting it all together, and Loudon is the track for that superior expertise to shine. Kneecapping these cars so others may have a chance is wrong, wrong, wrong.

But then, the gear rule will affect all cars, so I don't think this will keep the 2,3,4,6,16,52 and 93 with the rest of the field as hoped. The gear rule could end up hurting the teams that don't usually put it all together. The cars that weren't able to keep up with the 2,3,4,6,16,52 and 93 still won't. It doesn't appear this was well thought out. Be careful what you ask for. :eek:

[RGeeProductions]

Acadia.. which team are you on or own?
Sorry but a majority of my posts have come from talking directly with a few teams. And only when I state that it is my opinion, it is my opinion, otherwise from fact.
I am done here because I have mentioned in previous posts here that I don't necessarily agree with all that is going on (but will not got to extremes with negativity as that route does not work) and I still haven't seen owners/drivers voicing here. Oh yeah, forgot, they are scared... right

[MOD11RACER]

Don Hoenig wanted to start a new Modified Touring Series a few years ago when he was having a fued with NASCAR. The tracks who were invited Stafford, Seekonk, Waterford and Thompson with 4 or 5 races at each track paying a great point fund and purse for each event. For this to work D.H. had to have all of the tracks go along with the plan. Thompson, Waterford and Seekonk were all in, but Stafford would not do it. End of the story. This is a fact.

Just think a new Modified Tour paying the same cash purse payout and saving the tracks $25,000 per event. That's what NASCAR gets from the Tracks to put on one of these races.

Thompson Icebreaker: NASCAR Posted purse of $87,414. Total cash payout to the race teams $61,414. You do the math.

Stafford Spring Sizzler: NASCAR Posted Purse of $89,189. Total cash payout to the race teams $62,869. Again you do the math.

Each race team also pays $300 per team to buy back gate tickets. $300 X 26 Teams. You do the math.

Do you think these tracks would jump at the idea of saving over $25,000 per event ?

Still waiting to hear from the the WMT Sponsor.

[bud]

RG actions detrimental to the sport! Hmmmm PR JASON. SEE THE WRITING ON THE WALL?41 VMRS CARS AT STAFFORD.......23 M A Y B E 24 AT WATERFORD....... WOW WHO WOULD HAVE EVER THOUGHT THAT WOULS HAPPEN. GEEZ

[TnLRacing]

Jason( WMTPR),
I have a question for you, that involves NASCARS efforts to "save the teams money"

A) Park Haulers and start inspection on Thursday ( You can be inspected on Friday if you pay a late charge)
1- so lets see that one guy to drive the truck and trailer up, and at minimum a second guy to help him unload the car and push it around for inspection so thats hotel rooms for Thursday, and Friday
2) Lets not forget the mandatory crew chief meeting at 2:30 PM on Thurday
Hows is this Helping to save money?

B) Most all teams with have all their crew members on hand on Saturday for the RACE. Its the practice days that are tough on the crew to get off from work WE WILL ALL BE THERE ON SAT! This is our Daytona 500!
1) Halfway breaks SUCK, they have always sucked and will always SUCK. The crews are part of the team, they don't get to drive the car, so the pitstop is their time to shine! otherwise they are just fans with crappy seats, watching half the race on the TV.

C) Hotels... Great you changed the race to Friday and Sat, but wait almost every hotel in the area requires a 3 night stay
Wheres the Savings?

D) Why the gear rule Change? it Clearly puts the Spec motor at an advantage. Anyone from NASCAR that says the SPEC motor was not given any though when changing the gear rule and adding a halfway break is flat out lying.

[uticamike]

"....I go to Loudon to see the 2,3,4,6,16,52,66, and 93 leg it out. As long as these cars do not have bad luck, one of these cars will win. I'm ok with that, that's what I expect, these cars are consistently the best at putting it all together, and Loudon is the track for that superior expertise to shine. Kneecapping these cars so others may have a chance is wrong, wrong, wrong........"

Ah....you left out a certain red 36. He's not too bad at Loudon either. To the point of having open shows instead of a tour I don't think by themselves they could sustain Modified racing on their own. They have always been a nice compliment to a series but they take enormous effort to pull off and be successful. RG> I was talking to a
long time car owner at Star the other night (not Mario) and his thoughts on NASCAR I won't print here. I'll bet there are a host of other current ones that don't like what
the WMT is becoming but don't bother or maybe fear reprisal if they do speak out. It's not just us blathering fans. Who shows or doesn't speaks the loudest anyway and
as car counts dwindle to a couple dozen maybe that will wake NASCAR up. I wish it weren't so but neither the VMRS or the ROC is in a position to take over and run the
WMT as we know it. Something is going to give sooner or later though.

[Acadia]

Acadia.. which team are you on or own?
Sorry but a majority of my posts have come from talking directly with a few teams. And only when I state that it is my opinion, it is my opinion, otherwise from fact.
I am done here because I have mentioned in previous posts here that I don't necessarily agree with all that is going on (but will not got to extremes with negativity as that route does not work) and I still haven't seen owners/drivers voicing here. Oh yeah, forgot, they are scared... right

and



---Quote (Originally by MOD11RACER)---
Interesting some of the biggest Modified supporters (or fakers) have not commented on the purse cut. They sure ***** about how come the Tour gets screwed by NASCAR and the K&N, but no comment. Humm. One of them even thinks the purse cut was OK, because of the additional purse money of a total of $900 for positions 8TH thru 16TH. WOW ! What a trade off $900 for $17,165. They can't be to big of a fan. Then you try to tell them whats going on with who you have talked to and they tell you don't no a thing. That's why this is all BS. All talkers and no action takers.

Where the hell is AARN on this or any other reporter. They are complete sell outs. Oh I can't bad mouth NASCAR. I might have to pay to get in.
---End Quote---

1. Go watch another series then if this is so bad!!!
2. Pay cut. My post CAME from some lower drivers AND how many drivers/owners are complaining here??? WTF


What team am I on or own? What does that have to do with the gear rule? What does that have to do with the purse cuts? And why do you keep bringing up that you don't see any owners/drivers here? Please explain. Here's why it doesn't matter... If I were to say I'm with Team ABC, one of the top 3 teams, whatever I say is golden or considered jaded and self-serving. If I am not with a team, I'm just a fan and what I say doesn't matter, even if I say the exact same thing as a top 3 owner. Get it? Do you think your affiliation with the 18 gives you some sort of credibility that is superior to the knowledge of others?

Let's look into this... You say your information is from talking directly with a few teams. What teams would that be? Teams that are competitive with the 18, or teams like the 2,3,4,6,16,52,66 and 93? Did you talk to any of those and did any of those favor the gear rule? I don't think so. I think the 2,3,4,6,16,52,66 and 93 want to race with as few restrictions as possible, and certainly not a gear rule after all these years this race has been run. Let the teams decide what RPM they want to run.

I don't think this has been carefully thought out.

Think about it... if the $$$$$ BUILT motor loses RPM because the gear rule, which it will, then the lesser motors are gonna die trying push that harder gear. Now this is Loudon and teams pull out the big guns for this event, but some can not. These cars are going to lose RPM in the turns, and not be able to accelerate at a great rate in the straight because of the harder gear. Being able to turn will be so important so as not to lose RPM. The cars that are not well engine endowed usually don't turn well either, so they are going to lose lots of RPM in the turn that their motor ain't gonna be able to recover as well as the better motors. This is going to lead to cars running in deeper and losing it. Don't be surprised when the lesser engine endowed cars are further behind the 2,3,4,6,16,52,66 and 93 than without the gear rule. And teams, bring your regular Loudon rears, for I wouldn't be surprised if after the first full practice session with a broad spectrum of cars instead of the cream of the crop that were at Loudon testing, the gear rule is scrapped.

And one of my favorite things about the Loudon event is now gone... the song. The song of open headers, on both sides of the car, at full song down the straights. Figure the cars are going to lose about 800-1000 RPM with the new gear. That sucks!!!!!

[RGeeProductions]

What team am I on or own? What does that have to do with the gear rule? What does that have to do with the purse cuts? And why do you keep bringing up that you don't see any owners/drivers here? Please explain. Here's why it doesn't matter... If I were to say I'm with Team ABC, one of the top 3 teams, whatever I say is golden or considered jaded and self-serving. If I am not with a team, I'm just a fan and what I say doesn't matter, even if I say the exact same thing as a top 3 owner. Get it? Do you think your affiliation with the 18 gives you some sort of credibility that is superior to the knowledge of others?

Let's look into this... You say your information is from talking directly with a few teams. What teams would that be? Teams that are competitive with the 18, or teams like the 2,3,4,6,16,52,66 and 93? Did you talk to any of those and did any of those favor the gear rule? I don't think so. I think the 2,3,4,6,16,52,66 and 93 want to race with as few restrictions as possible, and certainly not a gear rule after all these years this race has been run. Let the teams decide what RPM they want to run.

I don't think this has been carefully thought out.

Think about it... if the $$$$$ BUILT motor loses RPM because the gear rule, which it will, then the lesser motors are gonna die trying push that harder gear. Now this is Loudon and teams pull out the big guns for this event, but some can not. These cars are going to lose RPM in the turns, and not be able to accelerate at a great rate in the straight because of the harder gear. Being able to turn will be so important so as not to lose RPM. The cars that are not well engine endowed usually don't turn well either, so they are going to lose lots of RPM in the turn that their motor ain't gonna be able to recover as well as the better motors. This is going to lead to cars running in deeper and losing it. Don't be surprised when the lesser engine endowed cars are further behind the 2,3,4,6,16,52,66 and 93 than without the gear rule. And teams, bring your regular Loudon rears, for I wouldn't be surprised if after the first full practice session with a broad spectrum of cars instead of the cream of the crop that were at Loudon testing, the gear rule is scrapped.

And one of my favorite things about the Loudon event is now gone... the song. The song of open headers, on both sides of the car, at full song down the straights. Figure the cars are going to lose about 800-1000 RPM with the new gear. That sucks!!!!!

My affiliation with a team AND my affiliation with media information DOES give me a little more heads up info on things. And by just getting info from lower teams would not make accurate statements across the board would it?
And I would be a bit more concerned about all this if a few teams were sending out their feelings about all this, in the same manner as yourself, as it is affecting them.
I didn't say I was happy about the purse cut but did say it does help the lower finishers. Sorry that I like positives over negatives. The overall purse cut stinks.
And I really don't think the gear rule will be as bad as you think. A few stories were written stating that home builts were running 8000 rpm before. We were running over that and the cream were still pulling us down the straights. Try maybe 8500-8600 for them. They needed to cut that down, and I agree with that. The better $$$$ motors will still pull more with or without a gear rule. Would a smaller restrictor plate be a better answer then? Won't know as the gear rule is what they chose.
Again, I don't think this race is going to be as bad as many seem to think it's going to be.

[limodmaniac]

[QUOTE=RGeeProductions;175946]I didn't say I was happy about the purse cut but did say it does help the lower finishers. Sorry that I like positives over negatives. The overall purse cut stinks.

Comparing the purse from last year and this year. Only positions 8-16 and 23-26 have an increase in purse. However, at most, it's a $150 increase for 3 cars and an increase of $100 for 5 other cars.

I agree totally, that the overall purse cut stinks. Any purse cut stinks.

[DaFingz]

RG actions detrimental to the sport! Hmmmm PR JASON. SEE THE WRITING ON THE WALL?41 VMRS CARS AT STAFFORD.......23 M A Y B E 24 AT WATERFORD....... WOW WHO WOULD HAVE EVER THOUGHT THAT WOULS HAPPEN. GEEZ

the 24 cars at Waterford the the NWMT tour race are confirmed entries. The "41" cars on the VMRS @Stafford are projected entries. I would be shocked to see that many teams show. 28-33 would be realistic

[Acadia]

My affiliation with a team AND my affiliation with media information DOES give me a little more heads up info on things. And by just getting info from lower teams would not make accurate statements across the board would it?
And I would be a bit more concerned about all this if a few teams were sending out their feelings about all this, in the same manner as yourself, as it is affecting them.
I didn't say I was happy about the purse cut but did say it does help the lower finishers. Sorry that I like positives over negatives. The overall purse cut stinks.
And I really don't think the gear rule will be as bad as you think. A few stories were written stating that home builts were running 8000 rpm before. We were running over that and the cream were still pulling us down the straights. Try maybe 8500-8600 for them. They needed to cut that down, and I agree with that. The better $$$$ motors will still pull more with or without a gear rule. Would a smaller restrictor plate be a better answer then? Won't know as the gear rule is what they chose.
Again, I don't think this race is going to be as bad as many seem to think it's going to be.


No owner or driver is going to say anything non-positive about NASCAR, no matter how truthful it may be. Do you remember from not too long ago very hefty fines that were given out to Cup teams/owners for non-positive comments about NASCAR? It was all over the news. I think one of those fines went into the six figure range. Teams are not to say anything that's in disagreement with NASCAR or fear fines or some other punishment. NASCAR has made it rather clear that they don't want to hear, or hear of, any non-positive feedback. And the fine system was like triple secret... it has only recently come out into the light. I thought you would be very aware of this.

So the top cars that are expected to win what would have been the big bucks are effectively muzzled and can't say anything about the reduction in the purse or face the thumb of NASCAR. The teams outside of the top really can't complain about the purse reduction, they are getting $100-$150 more. NASCAR has divided and conquered. If the entire field had their potential winnings reduced, there could have been a unified resistance, but the lower teams were not affected by the purse reduction, and the lower teams have no problem with the purse reduction since the top cars will be the ones getting lots less. And in the big picture, looking at the total cost to run an event like Loudon, the $100-$150 more for the lower finishing teams is not newsworthy. That doesn't even cover one tire. I don't see how that would help the car count. That won't even cover the team pizza party. All it does is divide the competitors.

[NWMT PR]

I get that Nascar is listening to the teams in an attempt to save them money.I think Nascar deserves kudos for spacing out the 2012 schedule to ease up on the purse strings of both the teams and the fans. In terms of travel, last years schedule was brutal in Aug/Sept. However, Nascar had a no tire rule at Monadnock last month, presumably to save the teams money. After the race both the drivers and the fans said a one tire change would have provided more intrigue and strategy to the show. I'm not knocking Monadnock either. I enjoyed my time there and I hope the WMT is back there next year. Now take NHMS. Regardless of the reason for the break, it doesn't make it a better show. Its that simple. It might end up being as good a show. If it is then fine. If it isn't, how much money are the teams really saving and is it worth it if it affects the fans enjoyment level. The greatest part of being a modified fan is watching a driver come get tires late and make that charge thru the field as the laps tick away. Like TC did at Thompson last June. These breaks all but eliminate the possibilityof having one of those moments. In all honesty, if there was one thing fans would ask of Nascar it would probably be that you not mess with the NHMS races. That is our 1 mile slice of heaven.

I see so much focus on Nascar's behalf to make the cars equal. They should focus on the races themselves. Richie Evans went to the HOF by winning most of the races he entered. With all of the focus on the cars there are honestly still only 6 or 8 cars,maybe 10 that can win the NHMS race. Fans know that going in. We're good with it. Just give us a good race with as few cautions as possible. I'm going to Star Speedway on Saturday to watch a 125 lap green flag race that is only going to cost me $25 at the gate. Thats what fans want. Well that and a Saturday WMT race at Bristol.

This is good feedback.

You know you can get an advance general admission ticket for Saturday at NHMS to see 100 laps of NWMT for $25, plus the 200 lap Nationwide race and Rally Cross, if you so choose.

[NWMT PR]

NWMT PR, why was the Mod winnings pulled from the results pages, but the winnings continue to be included for the Cup, NW and Truck results?

It is that way for all regional touring series. The NWMT was not singled out.


In case you haven't noticed, there hasn't been many full fields in a long time. That doesn't concern you?!?!??!??!!?! What part of that don't you get? Oh, I think you understand it, but I think you want the exposure it gets here to go away.

We have certainly noticed that the car counts have gone down ... slightly, but not drastically. We are still in a recession though, so I think its fair to say that has at least something to do with it. And yes, there is no doubt that all of us with a stake in the sport would rather focus on the positives and not dwell on the negatives. Would it be nice if there were 28 or 30 cars this weekend at Waterford? You bet. But we've got 24, and we're looking forward to seeing those 24 put on a good show. And let's not forget, there could be other circumstances why some other cars are choosing not to attend other than pure economics. Family obligations and other related situations have prevented teams from attending races before as well.


And as far as what you think is a theory goes, things like gear ratios aren't theories, they are exact science. It is well known what changes to gear will do. You either know it and know it is exact science, or you don't know and think it is a theory. Really, high school physics explains it all. And simple machines that is taught in grammar school does it too.

All I'm saying here is, I'm not willing to concede that a race is going to stink or be non-competitive until I actually see it transpire in front of me. No insults to intelligence given, and none needed in return.


What should be done about the best teams in other sports? Should the leagues intervene and dictate what players can play on what teams so no teams are better than the rest? Of course not, that would be absurd. Why do it here? Here goes, the Yankees are playing the Chicago Cubs, so that should mean that A-Rod, Jeter, Tex, Cano, CC, and Swisher aren't allowed to play because it wouldn't be fair.

I'm not sure I completely grasp your point here, but the way I interpret it, I would have to somewhat disagree. All sports major have a draft, and in those drafts the teams with the worst records get to pick first, theoretically to evenly distribute the talent. Salary caps also aid in this effort as well. I'm not endorsing the rights and wrongs of any of this ... just sayin.

[NWMT PR]

Jason tell me WHY they had a Halfway break at Martinsville & Bristol ? Were these combo races with the Southern tour ? Were those Breaks because the SOUTH teams could Not fuel an had no firesuits an equipment on the cars ? The Halfway break started with the CWTS,WHY did they STOP doing it?.

You are partially correct. There are additional reasons for the midway break concept, which have previously been outlined.


Yes Most all the K&N teams use the Spec, But it's an "Voluntary" you said. Read your Rules Teams Running Toyota MUST run the spec.

Again, true. But you don't have to run a Toyota. There are three other approved manufacturers to choose from.


Also Stick with your" Pitchfork & Torch" Mentallity about the FANS. There the Reason you have a JOB, ASK the former holders of your job,your the Corp Spin Doctor. The Fans ( Hopefully)will Still be here when your gone.

I never said "Pitchfork & Torch", but the term seems to have been embraced by some on here. ... Anyway, yes, like many of my colleagues in the sport, we certainly understand that we wouldn't be doing what we're doing without the support of the fans. Now I'm not a veteran of many, many years with NASCAR, but in my few years I'd like to think we've paid a lot of attention to fan feedback, and for that I'm pretty proud. You may notice that more at the Sprint Cup Series level, and you may not care about that, but overall we do listen and we do take things into consideration. That is, afterall, the main reason why I view this message board.

And I also hope you are all still supporting the tour after I'm gone, I just hope you're not so eager to kick me out the door. :lol:

[NWMT PR]

I sent tfolks at GMP an email congratulating them on being able to put a Nascar K&N series race on Television with a bigger purse and bigger point fund than the upcoming WMT races at Stafford & Thompson. And, despite a smaller seating capacity, they did it all this for only 20 bucks, half the ticket he price of Stafford and Thompson, all with no break from NAscar. They are the my early favorites for the Promoter of the year in the seasons end speed 51 voting.

You should congratulate them, they do a great job. They're not the only ones that charge $20 for races though, it is quite common in the southeast and beyond, and not just for K&N East races.


I'm curious, are they only going to be allowed pit during this break?
Are they restricted on how many guys can go over the wall for the other 99 laps?
Do the cars go out in the same order they came in? If not the teams with more members will still be out faster.

Same rules as when we’ve had a midway break at Bristol, Martinsville and Delaware.

And those rules would be????

Any team member that needs to know has access to the rules and regulations of the midway break, but again, this isn't a novel concept. They've done this before.

[Axel]

Mr NWMT PR. You have the toughest job on here, (after Richie that is!)

But you handle yourself so well and so diplomatically, that my hat is off to you. You have a tough job. I will say that my loyalties and passions lie with most of the posters. I view NASCAR as a large malevolent corporate entity that’s hopelessly out of touch with the teams and fans, but I do applaud how you handle yourself here. I know you are a representative of NASCAR and not NASCAR itself, so take this post for what it is.

I cant even begin to discuss the technical stuff about the gear rule. I barely know the diff between a 3.80 quick change gear from a 220v outlet (220, 221. Whatever it takes.) but I do know one thing. I like modified racing and I love the Loudon tour races. By and large, the 100 lap New Hampshire format has worked beautifully since its inception in the early 90’s. Yes, some of the races are caution filled and klunkers, but when it’s great, it’s like really great sex. (OK, that’s a bit of a stretch, but your get the idea.)

My advice is this: Market your product like your life depended on it. Give 110% to the modifieds. Have some passion, NASCAR. You’ve become a corporate entity, pleasing shareholders. You’re out of touch. Bring it back to the grass roots and build a great product from there.

I remember talking to a big name racer about 10 years ago about the modifieds and his response was, “NASCAR really has no idea what they have here.” This tour could be complete kick-ass east coast tour if it was promoted properly. You could really have a super fan base. No one seems to care much about the modifieds anymore. It’s a shame. If you wonder why the tour isn’t as big anymore, ask drivers, team members and owners. Then ask the fans.

In addition to a competition committee, maybe you should adopt a fans committee. No fans, no teams, no races. I am an optimist, but I don’t feel all that optimistic about the tour. It just IS. It’s not growing. It’s not thriving. It’s just kind of there. I know running a tour is big work with a lot of moving pieces. I don’t want to minimize that. But show some goddamn passion, NASCAR.

In an uncivil world, I am glad, we’ve kept it pretty civil. On your part, I know you have.

Sincerely,
Alex Rogovin
Flemington NJ

[Teds Race Tours]

I know it's off topic, but Jason wants fan feedback. One weekend about 3 weeks ago, there were 150+ unique Tour Type Modifieds(NOT COUNTING SK's in that number, just full blooded Modifieds) in action all over the east coast on the same weekend. There are plenty of modifieds out there. What NASCAR needs to do, is make it possble for more of them to run 1 or 2 races during the season. That 24 you have entered at Waterford just might have been 30+ if NASCAR wasn't so ridiculous in there entry fees, licenses, and other BS that makes it impossible for teams to wet their feet on The Whelen Modified Tour. You are dropping the ball big time.

[Acadia]

Any team member that needs to know has access to the rules and regulations of the midway break, but again, this isn't a novel concept. They've done this before.


Just because it has been done before doesn't make it right. A break at Loudon for the mods is wrong, wrong, wrong.

[Acadia]

I know it's off topic, but Jason wants fan feedback. One weekend about 3 weeks ago, there were 150+ unique Tour Type Modifieds(NOT COUNTING SK's in that number, just full blooded Modifieds) in action all over the east coast on the same weekend. There are plenty of modifieds out there. What NASCAR needs to do, is make it possble for more of them to run 1 or 2 races during the season. That 24 you have entered at Waterford just might have been 30+ if NASCAR wasn't so ridiculous in there entry fees, licenses, and other BS that makes it impossible for teams to wet their feet on The Whelen Modified Tour. You are dropping the ball big time.

There are way too many that are idle...

[Mod Squad]

Mr NWMT PR. You have the toughest job on here, (after Richie that is!)

But you handle yourself so well and so diplomatically, that my hat is off to you. You have a tough job. I will say that my loyalties and passions lie with most of the posters. I view NASCAR as a large malevolent corporate entity that’s hopelessly out of touch with the teams and fans, but I do applaud how you handle yourself here. I know you are a representative of NASCAR and not NASCAR itself, so take this post for what it is.

I cant even begin to discuss the technical stuff about the gear rule. I barely know the diff between a 3.80 quick change gear from a 220v outlet (220, 221. Whatever it takes.) but I do know one thing. I like modified racing and I love the Loudon tour races. By and large, the 100 lap New Hampshire format has worked beautifully since its inception in the early 90’s. Yes, some of the races are caution filled and klunkers, but when it’s great, it’s like really great sex. (OK, that’s a bit of a stretch, but your get the idea.)

My advice is this: Market your product like your life depended on it. Give 110% to the modifieds. Have some passion, NASCAR. You’ve become a corporate entity, pleasing shareholders. You’re out of touch. Bring it back to the grass roots and build a great product from there.

I remember talking to a big name racer about 10 years ago about the modifieds and his response was, “NASCAR really has no idea what they have here.” This tour could be complete kick-ass east coast tour if it was promoted properly. You could really have a super fan base. No one seems to care much about the modifieds anymore. It’s a shame. If you wonder why the tour isn’t as big anymore, ask drivers, team members and owners. Then ask the fans.

In addition to a competition committee, maybe you should adopt a fans committee. No fans, no teams, no races. I am an optimist, but I don’t feel all that optimistic about the tour. It just IS. It’s not growing. It’s not thriving. It’s just kind of there. I know running a tour is big work with a lot of moving pieces. I don’t want to minimize that. But show some goddamn passion, NASCAR.

In an uncivil world, I am glad, we’ve kept it pretty civil. On your part, I know you have.

Sincerely,
Alex Rogovin
Flemington NJ

Well Said Alex, as the kids today say; "Done"-drops mic...exits stage left.

[fastbackss]

Well Said Alex, as the kids today say; "Done"-drops mic...exits stage left.


I thought it was "end scene." Lol. Nonetheless, Alex hit it right on the head. I feel for NWMT PR because so many of the vitriolic posts are directed at him, as the representative for the overarching entity. He does not need to troll the boards, but he does, and responds where he can and with diplomacy as Alex said. I am confident that I would not have the patience he does if I were in his shoes, and would likely have been fired long ago.

This group of fans is ardent - let's keep it civil and not "bash." We want our opinions (and there are many good ones on here) to be heard, and hopefully acted on. There always is a polite way to do that without the aforementioned pitchforks.

Quick story, since this is completely off-topic anyway, I used to race with a group that toured a number of speedways that have that filthy surface. We had a night where we admittedly were treated less than stellarly. Well, a few in our group, equally fervent to some on here, went about hooting and hollering to anyone that would listen including up to the track owner and other bigwigs. They did it each independently. But, the common theme is that they were foul-mouthed, confrontational, and by proxy, belligerent. Guess who was never invited back...

-Mike

[MJProcko]

"I'm curious, are they only going to be allowed pit during this break?
Are they restricted on how many guys can go over the wall for the other 99 laps?
Do the cars go out in the same order they came in? If not the teams with more members will still be out faster.

Same rules as when we’ve had a midway break at Bristol, Martinsville and Delaware.

And those rules would be????

"Any team member that needs to know has access to the rules and regulations of the midway break, but again, this isn't a novel concept. They've done this before."

Did I stumble onto a matter of national security???? Did Nascar get the DOJ to claim executive privlage over weather or not the cars remain in the same spot at the end of the break or not. Or are you telling me I need to buy a Nascar license to find out the pitting procedure during the halftime break.

I guess I need to do a little investigative journalism to find out the big secret.
Hmmmm google NWMT halftime break at Martinsville and I get the truck race...
Dig up the statistical advance and news and notes from the 2011 Delaware race..... nope no mention of it in either.

Idea... I go to the results of the 2008 Whelen all American 300 at Martinsville and I see that Ryan Preece led from lap 7 to 270. I'll assume that the halftime is somewhere in between those laps and since Preece was still in the lead might assume that the cars do infact line up the way they came in. Now I hate to assume anything because... well you know what happens when you assume that's why I asked the someone who should have better knowledge than I. Thank's for the help.

[MJProcko]

Will Janet Jackson be performing during the halftime show?

On the brightside atleast we'll get to see all those cool commercials.... oh, this race is no longer televised.

[Acadia]

I haven't seen any bashing, it could get lots worse. This has been remarkably civil. I could be much more assertive and some would be squeezed. It has been entertaining.

Some of you are very passive and squeamish with disagreements of any kind. Some are not. A disagreement is not uncivil, bashing, rude, belligerent, bellicose, hating, etc. If someone says that 2 + 3 is anything other than 5, I feel I can help that person and point out that 2 + 3 = 5. That's being helpful. Now what usually happens is that person would take offense, get defensive and all pissy, and then make like they are a victim, assign the blame on someone else, try a diversion or distraction, and on and on. I find it very entertaining.

As far as NWMT PR goes, that's his job. He is a PR asset, he is the liaison between the big cheeses at the overarching entity and the public. To the public, he is NASCAR, as much as we'd like to communicate with people at NASCAR a few pay grades above NWMT PR. He is the person the public goes to for problems with the product, that's the way it works. We are the consumer and we bring problems to the attention of NWMT PR. That's his job, to take these concerns to the cabals. It is not our burden to sugar coat our complaints so as to try not to upset NWMT PR. That's part of the job, he can leave if he doesn't like it. So if you buy a car and it's a lemon, do you not take it back for remediation because you fear being considered mean, bashing, belligerent, a complainer and a hater?

And as far as this rather be positive than negative attitude goes... right now, the fact that the NWMT exists at all is about the only thing to be positive about. Declining car counts, less than full fields, and fewer races per season, isn't much to be positive about. And then there are really only a few cars that are competitive. Those that want to dwell on being "positive" can be said to be stuffing their heads deeply in the sand. Those that truly want to see the tour type mod survive and thrive do not hesitate to address any threat. That's the way it has to be. Keeping the problems the mods are facing out of sight and out of mind is not going to fix the problems.





I thought it was "end scene." Lol. Nonetheless, Alex hit it right on the head. I feel for NWMT PR because so many of the vitriolic posts are directed at him, as the representative for the overarching entity. He does not need to troll the boards, but he does, and responds where he can and with diplomacy as Alex said. I am confident that I would not have the patience he does if I were in his shoes, and would likely have been fired long ago.

This group of fans is ardent - let's keep it civil and not "bash." We want our opinions (and there are many good ones on here) to be heard, and hopefully acted on. There always is a polite way to do that without the aforementioned pitchforks.

Quick story, since this is completely off-topic anyway, I used to race with a group that toured a number of speedways that have that filthy surface. We had a night where we admittedly were treated less than stellarly. Well, a few in our group, equally fervent to some on here, went about hooting and hollering to anyone that would listen including up to the track owner and other bigwigs. They did it each independently. But, the common theme is that they were foul-mouthed, confrontational, and by proxy, belligerent. Guess who was never invited back...

-Mike

[bud]

Never thought id see the day.....lol
Well said big A

[Acadia]

"I'm curious, are they only going to be allowed pit during this break?
Are they restricted on how many guys can go over the wall for the other 99 laps?
Do the cars go out in the same order they came in? If not the teams with more members will still be out faster.

Same rules as when we’ve had a midway break at Bristol, Martinsville and Delaware.

And those rules would be????

"Any team member that needs to know has access to the rules and regulations of the midway break, but again, this isn't a novel concept. They've done this before."

Did I stumble onto a matter of national security???? Did Nascar get the DOJ to claim executive privlage over weather or not the cars remain in the same spot at the end of the break or not. Or are you telling me I need to buy a Nascar license to find out the pitting procedure during the halftime break.



heheheheheheheheeeee!!! I too find these replies by NWMT PR that don't answer the point to be rather entertaining. He appears to be deliberately evasive, or just doesn't know the answer. I don't want to think the NWMT PR replies are non-responsive just to be antagonistic.

You also have to understand he has to tow the company line. Given the current state of the NWMT, that means lots of image and perception management.

[NWMT PR]

heheheheheheheheeeee!!! I too find these replies by NWMT PR that don't answer the point to be rather entertaining. He appears to be deliberately evasive, or just doesn't know the answer. I don't want to think the NWMT PR replies are non-responsive just to be antagonistic.

You also have to understand he has to tow the company line. Given the current state of the NWMT, that means lots of image and perception management.

The point I was trying to make here, and with other similar topics, is that matters of race procedures, fees, payouts, etc. are made perfectly clear to those on a "need-to-know" basis. A team member that needs to know, has access to those answers. I'm not sure anybody on here really needs to know the exact blow-by-blow of how the midway break is going to transpire, but since it seems to be such a foreign concept, then here you go, straight from the entry blank ...

The TOWN FAIR TIRE “100” is to be run in two segments. There will be a five (5) minute break at or near the conclusion of lap 50. Once the yellow flag is displayed at the start/finish line for the break, the caution car will pick up the field. Once the field is under control, the caution car will lead the field on to pit road to your assigned pit stall. No work is to be performed at the break until the last car in the field is in its assigned pit stall and the red flag is displayed at the starters stand. All participants in the event will be allowed to make changes that would normally occur during a routine pit stop. DO NOT REMOVE BODY PANELS. Approximately two (2) minutes will be allowed for chassis adjustments and changes. In NASCAR’s judgment, any unauthorized adjustments that are performed may be assessed a penalty. A maximum of five (5) uniformed crew members in the car servicing area. At the break, if an announcer approaches your car, please lower your window net and stay in the car. The break will be five (5) minutes. The time will start when the last car stops on pit road and the red flag is displayed. We will roll the caution car at the five (5) minute mark and any car that is not on track may be assessed a penalty. At the end of the break, cars will line up with lead lap cars to the front.

[MJProcko]

The point I was trying to make here, and with other similar topics, is that matters of race procedures, fees, payouts, etc. are made perfectly clear to those on a "need-to-know" basis. A team member that needs to know, has access to those answers. I'm not sure anybody on here really needs to know the exact blow-by-blow of how the midway break is going to transpire, but since it seems to be such a foreign concept, then here you go, straight from the entry blank ...

The TOWN FAIR TIRE “100” is to be run in two segments. There will be a five (5) minute break at or near the conclusion of lap 50. Once the yellow flag is displayed at the start/finish line for the break, the caution car will pick up the field. Once the field is under control, the caution car will lead the field on to pit road to your assigned pit stall. No work is to be performed at the break until the last car in the field is in its assigned pit stall and the red flag is displayed at the starters stand. All participants in the event will be allowed to make changes that would normally occur during a routine pit stop. DO NOT REMOVE BODY PANELS. Approximately two (2) minutes will be allowed for chassis adjustments and changes. In NASCAR’s judgment, any unauthorized adjustments that are performed may be assessed a penalty. A maximum of five (5) uniformed crew members in the car servicing area. At the break, if an announcer approaches your car, please lower your window net and stay in the car. The break will be five (5) minutes. The time will start when the last car stops on pit road and the red flag is displayed. We will roll the caution car at the five (5) minute mark and any car that is not on track may be assessed a penalty. At the end of the break, cars will line up with lead lap cars to the front.

Now was that so hard..... just in time to, Woodward and Berstein were looking for money up front before looking into it.

[MJProcko]

From Phil Smith's column he has brief comments by Mario Fiore, and he pretty much says it all.

By Phil Smith
"The NASCAR Whelen Modified Tour Series heads to the Waterford Speedbowl this coming Saturday night. Veteran former Modified Car Owner Mario Fiore made a noteworthy observation. He said, "With the average team's equity hovering around a half-million, it just seems odd that race purses continue to decline." He added, "the latest debacle comes from the "last bastion of top paying modified purses" that being New Hampshire Motor Speedway. The entry arrived and it shows a decrease of 10% from last year". Fiore stated that Reggie Ruggiero, driving the #44 won $18,150 back in 1992, 20 years ago. Fiore also stated that next months winner of the Modified portion at New Hampshire Motor Speedway will get $10,700 according to Nascar's entry form !!! "Whats wrong with this picture ??", he asks. Fiore also alluded to the fact that also on the horizon is Nascar's plan to obsolete the Modified team's inventory of $50,000 engines, some car owners who possess three, four or five of them."



Now I know when I say something it doesn't mean much, I'm just a fan who has been following modifieds since 1966 and is willing to spend hours trying to find out if the cars line up in the same order after the halfway break at a race. But, when a Hall of Fame car owner speaks I hope everyone gives it the respect it deserves.

[NWMT PR]

While I'm temporarily breaking my "need-to-know" rule, here is something else to add. It should also be worth noting that this gear ratio topic is not unique to this series, or even this race. Here are a couple examples …

K&N East – Richmond
SPEC/Built
Quick change/Quick change
4.22 min/4.48 min
4.43 max/4.79 max

Ford SPEC/Ford Built
4.22 min/4.50 min
4.44 max/4.78 max

K&N East – Columbus
SPEC/Built
Quick change/Quick change
6.32 min/6.81 min
6.68 max/7.17 max

Ford SPEC/Ford Built
6.33 min/6.83 min
6.67 max/7.16 max

[Acadia]

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey, hold on there... there will be 5 crew allowed to service the car???? How is that a cost savings over previous races? C'mon... What is going on here? Please don't tell me that the race is being red flagged to accommodate cars that don't have a chance of finishing on the lead lap. How many cars will have less than 5 crew to service the car? What is the normal number of crew that service the car? Better be plenty more than 5 to substantiate that alleged cost savings we were told earlier as the reason for the intermission.

And clearly there is no reason any on here really should be prevented from knowing what you just told us. You're just gonna get hammered four weeks earlier than waiting until we found out during the race.

There is no difference between need to know and want to know, and fans want to know the rules. Just like watching baseball, hockey, basketball and lacrosse is bizarre without knowing the rules, watching the race is frustrating when the rules are kept to a limited few. Do you really want to keep the rules from your fans???? I don't think it is good idea for the fans to learn of the competition caution when it happens.

So NWMT PR, please step up to the microphone and speak loudly and clearly and explain why the race is being red flagged and 5 crew are allowed to service the car, and how many cars are going to have less than 5 crew on race day? I hate to sound so hard, but do any of those cars that will have less than 5 crew have a chance of finishing within a couple laps of the lead lap, and is it reasonable to impose this comp caution for a dubious cause? Like someone said earlier, Loudon is the Daytona 500 for the mods, all crew will be there on race day. At best, it appears this comp caution may reduce the laps behind for the back markers. Do you really want to keep the rules from your fans????



The point I was trying to make here, and with other similar topics, is that matters of race procedures, fees, payouts, etc. are made perfectly clear to those on a "need-to-know" basis. A team member that needs to know, has access to those answers. I'm not sure anybody on here really needs to know the exact blow-by-blow of how the midway break is going to transpire, but since it seems to be such a foreign concept, then here you go, straight from the entry blank ...

The TOWN FAIR TIRE “100” is to be run in two segments. There will be a five (5) minute break at or near the conclusion of lap 50. Once the yellow flag is displayed at the start/finish line for the break, the caution car will pick up the field. Once the field is under control, the caution car will lead the field on to pit road to your assigned pit stall. No work is to be performed at the break until the last car in the field is in its assigned pit stall and the red flag is displayed at the starters stand. All participants in the event will be allowed to make changes that would normally occur during a routine pit stop. DO NOT REMOVE BODY PANELS. Approximately two (2) minutes will be allowed for chassis adjustments and changes. In NASCAR’s judgment, any unauthorized adjustments that are performed may be assessed a penalty. A maximum of five (5) uniformed crew members in the car servicing area. At the break, if an announcer approaches your car, please lower your window net and stay in the car. The break will be five (5) minutes. The time will start when the last car stops on pit road and the red flag is displayed. We will roll the caution car at the five (5) minute mark and any car that is not on track may be assessed a penalty. At the end of the break, cars will line up with lead lap cars to the front.

[Acadia]

Now was that so hard..... just in time to, Woodward and Berstein were looking for money up front before looking into it.

Will you be at Waterford?

[Acadia]

And $18,150 1992 dollars is about $33,000 2012 dollars. That's quite a reduction in purse.



From Phil Smith's column he has brief comments by Mario Fiore, and he pretty much says it all.

By Phil Smith
"The NASCAR Whelen Modified Tour Series heads to the Waterford Speedbowl this coming Saturday night. Veteran former Modified Car Owner Mario Fiore made a noteworthy observation. He said, "With the average team's equity hovering around a half-million, it just seems odd that race purses continue to decline." He added, "the latest debacle comes from the "last bastion of top paying modified purses" that being New Hampshire Motor Speedway. The entry arrived and it shows a decrease of 10% from last year". Fiore stated that Reggie Ruggiero, driving the #44 won $18,150 back in 1992, 20 years ago. Fiore also stated that next months winner of the Modified portion at New Hampshire Motor Speedway will get $10,700 according to Nascar's entry form !!! "Whats wrong with this picture ??", he asks. Fiore also alluded to the fact that also on the horizon is Nascar's plan to obsolete the Modified team's inventory of $50,000 engines, some car owners who possess three, four or five of them."



Now I know when I say something it doesn't mean much, I'm just a fan who has been following modifieds since 1966 and is willing to spend hours trying to find out if the cars line up in the same order after the halfway break at a race. But, when a Hall of Fame car owner speaks I hope everyone gives it the respect it deserves.

[TnLRacing]

Jason in case you missed my questions earlier in the thread, I was wondering if you could take the time to answer them now:

Jason( WMTPR),
I have a question for you, that involves NASCARS efforts to "save the teams money"

A) Park Haulers and start inspection on Thursday ( You can be inspected on Friday if you pay a late charge)
1- so lets see that one guy to drive the truck and trailer up, and at minimum a second guy to help him unload the car and push it around for inspection so thats hotel rooms for Thursday, and Friday
2) Lets not forget the mandatory crew chief meeting at 2:30 PM on Thurday
Hows is this Helping to save money?

B) Most all teams with have all their crew members on hand on Saturday for the RACE. Its the practice days that are tough on the crew to get off from work WE WILL ALL BE THERE ON SAT! This is our Daytona 500!
1) Halfway breaks SUCK, they have always sucked and will always SUCK. The crews are part of the team, they don't get to drive the car, so the pitstop is their time to shine! otherwise they are just fans with crappy seats, watching half the race on the TV.

C) Hotels... Great you changed the race to Friday and Sat, but wait almost every hotel in the area requires a 3 night stay
Wheres the Savings?

D) Why the gear rule Change? it Clearly puts the Spec motor at an advantage. Anyone from NASCAR that says the SPEC motor was not given any though when changing the gear rule and adding a halfway break is flat out lying.

[NWMT PR]

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey, hold on there... there will be 5 crew allowed to service the car???? How is that a cost savings over previous races? C'mon... What is going on here? Please don't tell me that the race is being red flagged to accommodate cars that don't have a chance of finishing on the lead lap. How many cars will have less than 5 crew to service the car? What is the normal number of crew that service the car? Better be plenty more than 5 to substantiate that alleged cost savings we were told earlier as the reason for the intermission.

And clearly there is no reason any on here really should be prevented from knowing what you just told us. You're just gonna get hammered four weeks earlier than waiting until we found out during the race.

There is no difference between need to know and want to know, and fans want to know the rules. Just like watching baseball, hockey, basketball and lacrosse is bizarre without knowing the rules, watching the race is frustrating when the rules are kept to a limited few. Do you really want to keep the rules from your fans???? I don't think it is good idea for the fans to learn of the competition caution when it happens.

So NWMT PR, please step up to the microphone and speak loudly and clearly and explain why the race is being red flagged and 5 crew are allowed to service the car, and how many cars are going to have less than 5 crew on race day? I hate to sound so hard, but do any of those cars that will have less than 5 crew have a chance of finishing within a couple laps of the lead lap, and is it reasonable to impose this comp caution for a dubious cause? Like someone said earlier, Loudon is the Daytona 500 for the mods, all crew will be there on race day. At best, it appears this comp caution may reduce the laps behind for the back markers. Do you really want to keep the rules from your fans????

Acadia,
I know you are studying the language ... "At or near" and "a maxium of 5" ... these are not absolutes. If a team does not have five members, or does not wish to take five members, then they don't have to.

I'll give you credit for the point about wanting to know all the rules. But just like stick and ball sports, you're not necessarily always going to know the entire decision-making process that goes into the establishment of every rule.

We're going in circles here, and since you seem to want to keep us spinning on the midway break, gear rules, cautions, conspiracy theories, and all things NHMS ... I'm not sure I can see an end in sight. So on this and related subjects, I'm done for the time being.

See you at Waterford, and hope you enjoy the show.

Jason

[Acadia]

How many teams will not have 5 crew to conduct live pit stops on race day? Pretty simple and direct. How is the comp caution saving the teams money? What an oxymoron: competition caution. I think it will be an extreme minority, such as very few teams, that will have less than 5 crew to service the car on race day, if any. It is unreasonable to impose a red flag on the race, fans and rest of the field on behalf of a couple cars, if any. So because one team can not swing a crew, the entire race has to be subject to a comp caution? And I suspect the cars that are requesting the crew relief are not even close to being competitive cars. If a team can't collect enough crew, that's their problem. Don't make it a problem for everyone else, especially the fans that are paying.

Thanks for giving me credit for wanting to know the rules. That's so nice of you. It's good to see you might understand the importance of your customers and fans having the rules to understand the sport and each event. I wasn't inquiring about the decision making process. I've been around plenty of sausage making. I just want the rules. Why can't the general public get the rulebook without buying a NASCAR license? If that has changed, please provide a NASCAR website link so I can download the current rulebook. Don't have to have a license for the NFL, MLB, NHL, etc. rules. Why the need-to-know policy, unless there's something to hide? Now that I think about it, NASCAR should have a website for all to see how the rules for that event are shaping up. Why not?

There's no circles. NASCAR hasn't provided a tight answer for the comp caution or the gear rule. If 5 crew are still allowed, then it can't be a meaningful cost reduction, certainly not across the board. If it is to be a real worthwhile comp caution, all teams must be subject to the lesser number of crew that the crew deficient teams can swing. The Loudon event has been going on for 20 years, engines have gotten better and better, engines haven't been blowing up to necessitate the gear rule. The only reason for the gear rule is to enable the spec engine. Get somebody at NASCAR to explain it to you. If the spec engine didn't exist, there would be no gear rule. That was too obvious.

So car XX can't bring 5 crew to service the car to some race, they give you a call and no problem, NASCAR will just mandate a comp caution to accommodate. How nice. Sorry, that dog won't hunt. Makes no sense. No matter how many times the field gets bunched up, the wannabes will not be able to hang with the big dogs. Stop getting their hopes up.



Acadia,
I know you are studying the language ... "At or near" and "a maxium of 5" ... these are not absolutes. If a team does not have five members, or does not wish to take five members, then they don't have to.

I'll give you credit for the point about wanting to know all the rules. But just like stick and ball sports, you're not necessarily always going to know the entire decision-making process that goes into the establishment of every rule.

We're going in circles here, and since you seem to want to keep us spinning on the midway break, gear rules, cautions, conspiracy theories, and all things NHMS ... I'm not sure I can see an end in sight. So on this and related subjects, I'm done for the time being.

See you at Waterford, and hope you enjoy the show.

Jason

[Sicklajoie]

Good Gawd Acadia, I don't agree with a lot of stuff going on either, but give it a rest will ya? How many times do you have to bring up the same points over and over and over again. We. Get. It.
Oh and BTW, the NASCAR Mod Tour Rulebook has been on the Stafford Speedway website under the Downloads/Rules link for a couple years. You're welcome.

[RGeeProductions]

Good Gawd Acadia, I don't agree with a lot of stuff going on either, but give it a rest will ya? How many times do you have to bring up the same points over and over and over again. We. Get. It.
Oh and BTW, the NASCAR Mod Tour Rulebook has been on the Stafford Speedway website under the Downloads/Rules link for a couple years. You're welcome.

Thanks Joe!!!! :cheers:

[Magicshoes12]

Good Gawd Acadia, I don't agree with a lot of stuff going on either, but give it a rest will ya? How many times do you have to bring up the same points over and over and over again. We. Get. It.
Oh and BTW, the NASCAR Mod Tour Rulebook has been on the Stafford Speedway website under the Downloads/Rules link for a couple years. You're welcome.

Yes, Thank you Joe, Acadia probably won't even go to the race anyways. LOL. Acadia if you go to the race talk about this crap after, if you aren't going, I don't think you have any ground to stand on when talking about it! Don't knock it until it's over. I was at Bristol in 2009 when they had a halfway break, and the racing was 10 times better after the break. Who knows you might be surprised at the race to see what happens. I know guys like TC will use this to their advantage. Take the first 50 to feel in the car, see how well they can push it and then have a 50 lap dash. I think once July 15th is here, then you can say whatever you want.

[catfish]

Dam, you want and hope that someone from Nascar will post information and then beat the crap out of the guy at every turn. I can pretty well guarantee that it is not part of his job description to go on a racing board and answer to everything about the race. He does this on his own, and pretty soon he may not be willing to come on here and post anything!!!! And while I see nothing wrong with members asking these questions but beating the crap out of the guy for technical info info and data when the majority of the posters on here are fans, come on. Most of this crap should be directed to Nascar by the car owners and sponsors, in reality the cars are not not showing up because the purse is being cut because lets face it, if the teams HAVE to have the purse money to be able to afford to race then they are not getting much of the purse money anyway as they are not finishing in the top few cars. I have been reading these posts go on and on repeatedly on sixty seven different topics beating up Jason by FANS when this is things the car owners need to worry about and address with Nascar. I am not saying that this is all wrong with people asking questions but when they start telling Jason that these are the facts about why the counts are down and that why teams don't show up I think this not not the place for this nor the posters responsibility to speak for the car owners. If some guys on here are owners and DIRECTLY responsible for needing these answers and I have pissed you off that is not my intent (but maybe this is the incorrect forum for you to be trying to get this info). But armchair debaters on everything thing wrong with the tour, come on lighten up a little bit.

[Acadia]

Please take a look a the emphasized line and tell me what you see...

I'm surprised nobody has commented about it yet.

The modifieds are going to be a spec. series.

Which is why there is a gear rule to potentially take away any advantage of the built motors and evolve to a spec. series.







From Phil Smith's column he has brief comments by Mario Fiore, and he pretty much says it all.

By Phil Smith
"The NASCAR Whelen Modified Tour Series heads to the Waterford Speedbowl this coming Saturday night. Veteran former Modified Car Owner Mario Fiore made a noteworthy observation. He said, "With the average team's equity hovering around a half-million, it just seems odd that race purses continue to decline." He added, "the latest debacle comes from the "last bastion of top paying modified purses" that being New Hampshire Motor Speedway. The entry arrived and it shows a decrease of 10% from last year". Fiore stated that Reggie Ruggiero, driving the #44 won $18,150 back in 1992, 20 years ago. Fiore also stated that next months winner of the Modified portion at New Hampshire Motor Speedway will get $10,700 according to Nascar's entry form !!! "Whats wrong with this picture ??", he asks. Fiore also alluded to the fact that also on the horizon is Nascar's plan to obsolete the Modified team's inventory of $50,000 engines, some car owners who possess three, four or five of them."



Now I know when I say something it doesn't mean much, I'm just a fan who has been following modifieds since 1966 and is willing to spend hours trying to find out if the cars line up in the same order after the halfway break at a race. But, when a Hall of Fame car owner speaks I hope everyone gives it the respect it deserves.

[Acadia]

See... the gear rule is because of the spec. motor.

Can you imagine showing up to a race then complain that your motor isn't as powerful as the rest, so attempt to kneecap the fastest cars.

That's what's wrong with America these days.





While I'm temporarily breaking my "need-to-know" rule, here is something else to add. It should also be worth noting that this gear ratio topic is not unique to this series, or even this race. Here are a couple examples …

K&N East – Richmond
SPEC/Built
Quick change/Quick change
4.22 min/4.48 min
4.43 max/4.79 max

Ford SPEC/Ford Built
4.22 min/4.50 min
4.44 max/4.78 max

K&N East – Columbus
SPEC/Built
Quick change/Quick change
6.32 min/6.81 min
6.68 max/7.17 max

Ford SPEC/Ford Built
6.33 min/6.83 min
6.67 max/7.16 max

[MXCHAMP04]

I'm sorry, but this is a complete joke. I have finally convinced four of my coworkers on the awesome show of the mods. They have already been watching the cup cars to a small extent this year and interested in racing in a small way. So, after touting the mods for four years now to them, and finally they wanted to really go see this race, we get a coffee break. Sorry man, but they're gonna think it's a complete joke, and will surely laugh at it, and me, for suggesting we see this race above all others. You should really examine why the WMT has the same cars year after year and is just recycling drivers. Look at the drivers/cars you have lost. Summers, Dupuis, Sypher, Rodgers, Grigas, Rudolph, all gone, and these just came to mind without even really having to think. And a lot more just running select events. Ask yourself why does the VMRS have 41 entries for today (not sure how many will show), and their car counts keep rising year after year. Yuo should do things 100% the right way, or get out of the way.

[MJProcko]

Will you be at Waterford?

Nope, I would if I still lived in CT but living in S Florida makes it a 1000 mile trip ea. way. My vacation is scheduled around the Aug. races at Stafford and Thompson. As stated before I could have scheduled for Loudon but the idea that the cars that start up front will stay there after the halftime show kills any chance of pit strategy or cars racing back from the rear of the field. My wife is not thrilled at the thought of us traveling 1000 miles and spending 326 dollars just to get in the gate of Stafford and Thompson when we can go 2 hours up the road and buy 20 dollars seats for the Daytona 400......

[Acadia]

So one day, I was at a department store and a woman had her arms full of packages, and was struggling to open a door. So I went over and opened the door for her. She did not thank me, she accused me of trying to make her look like an idiot that couldn't open the door while holding all those packages. I will still be helpful, in spite of that profoundly selfish person.

Another time I had a lawyer in my office and she had a booger hanging out of her nose. I offered some tissues and she did not thank me either. I was going to say she got snotty, but that would have been way too funny. So the next time you find yourself with a booger hanging out of your nose, don't be pissed off because nobody told you about it. They did so for their own protection, or they deliberately let you walk around with the booger hanging out of your nose.


Okay, moving on...



As I've stated before, I'm not going to comment on the specifics of a race purse. Is it less than last year's July race? ... Yes. Is it more than last year's August race? ... Yes. Is it still the highest paying race of the year? ... Yes. Beyond that, I'm not going to be able to comment.

The reason for the midway break is very simple. If you're aware of what goes on in the other NASCAR touring series, then you know that midway breaks are not a new concept. We've had more than 30 races dating back to at least 2005 that have had a midway break, including Whelen Modified Tour races at Martinsville, Bristol and Delaware. ... It is designed as a cost-savings measure for the teams.

Now you will say, "we've been racing at Loudon for 20 years and never needed a midway break before." That may be true, but team owners have been very clear in asking for help with cutting down on travel and at-track expenses. The result of that is the upcoming race weekend at NHMS. The off day on Friday has been eliminated, and teams can now also travel with fewer crew members because there are no live pit stops.


How many of you bought it as a valid answer? It is not a good answer.

Loudon is the wrong track and location to do a comp. caution. Canada, Bristol, Martinsville, okay, but not Loudon. Loudon is the most incredible track out there for the modifieds, all crew will be there on race day, regardless. Nobody is going to miss that race. Loudon is our backyard.

Messing with Loudon will be the fart that brought down the house of cards.

Please don't mess with Loudon.

[MOD11RACER]

While I'm temporarily breaking my "need-to-know" rule, here is something else to add. It should also be worth noting that this gear ratio topic is not unique to this series, or even this race. Here are a couple examples …

K&N East – Richmond
SPEC/Built
Quick change/Quick change
4.22 min/4.48 min
4.43 max/4.79 max

Ford SPEC/Ford Built
4.22 min/4.50 min
4.44 max/4.78 max

K&N East – Columbus
SPEC/Built
Quick change/Quick change
6.32 min/6.81 min
6.68 max/7.17 max

Ford SPEC/Ford Built
6.33 min/6.83 min
6.67 max/7.16 max

You don't get it . Who cars what the hell K&N is doing. The WMT is a MODIFIED not a full body race car. Nobody goes to watch the K&N races. Why do the Modifieds have to run like a K&N car ? It's a MODIFIED. Do yourself a favor and get a history lesson on what a Modified race car is.

[Acadia]

This needs some more exposure, it's that good...


I'm a fan although starting to loose interest due to frieght trains and lousy shows. The car is supposed to be a modified, at least that's what they were back in the 1960s & early 70s, there were no spec motors, it was work on your own motor and see how good you were. The "modified" of today is an illusion of someone in Daytona wanting to make an equal playing field like in today's school sports where everybody wins whether you suck or not. There are usually more than enough cautions in a race, a half way point one is just stupid, remember cautions breed cautions.

[MOD11RACER]

Jason :

Under the watch of Chad Little has anything good happened to the WMT ?

This is the way I see it.

Car counts down to 24 to 28 Mods on a given event.

Loudon purse cut

No TV

Point fund payout went from the top 20 to the top 15.

Spec Motor. Junk

Is this good for any Touring Division ?

How much is the Thompson Purse going to be cut ? With the races going from 125 laps to 75 laps. You know what's coming.

2013 - The number 10. Count them 10 Tour teams will not be running in the WMT or anywhere else in 2013. Jason where will the cars come from ? Are you going to start 14 to 16 Modifieds per event ? 14 Modifieds running around Loudon for no money. What a joke. Maybe to should try a strike a deal with Jack Bateman. LOL

NASCAR HAS SET THE STAGE FOR THE DEATH OF THE MODIFIEDS It's coming folks.

[Acadia]

It's not about cost reduction, it's about getting people in the stands. That will increase revenue.

NASCAR needs to be working on getting the stands full again. I'm amazed at the empty stands with the Camping World and Nationwide series, and the empty stands at the Cup races. How does the Camping World and Nationwide series exist with trivial ticket sales, and how does that get them TV time? I don't get it... people won't go to the track to see them, but they get TV coverage. Why the loss of interest? I went to a Cup race at Loudon several years ago and the ticket was over $100 bucks and I was lucky to get the ticket. Remember when the waiting list for a ticket to Loudon was years long? Today, NHMS is pushing tickets for a fraction of the price and can't come close to packing the joint. It clearly isn't the ticket prices, for they have fallen dramatically. It's the PRODUCT!!!!! Fix the product!!!!! Competition cautions are detrimental to the product from the perspective of the fans, the people that buy the tickets. It is remarkable to see how many people travel to Loudon to see the modifieds, a true testament to the race they put on.

It is too late to try cost reduction, that time was a long time ago.

Now is when the seller, NASCAR, has to invest in the product to make it better. Right now, NASCAR needs to promote, promote, promote, and promote some more. NASCAR needs to pitch in to the purse big time to get cars to come out. When that happens, the people will come back.

NASCAR had a product that was amazing and sold itself. Now NASCAR has to actually work at it and they are at a loss.

[Acadia]

I started going to Loudon in the early-mid 90s. Haven't missed a race that I can remember. I'll be there at both this year.

I'll say whatever I want whenever I want.

Racing gets better after the pit stop, that's why there are pit stops. There was a race at Thompson, maybe last season, where the 36 was junk, but made a series of hot pit stops and roared back to win. That's real racing, not like a ridiculous competition caution.

While right now you are all excited to see what TC might do next, there might be nothing for TC to do in the near future. The Tour is in deep trouble. It does not seem to be sustainable the way it is going.




Yes, Thank you Joe, Acadia probably won't even go to the race anyways. LOL. Acadia if you go to the race talk about this crap after, if you aren't going, I don't think you have any ground to stand on when talking about it! Don't knock it until it's over. I was at Bristol in 2009 when they had a halfway break, and the racing was 10 times better after the break. Who knows you might be surprised at the race to see what happens. I know guys like TC will use this to their advantage. Take the first 50 to feel in the car, see how well they can push it and then have a 50 lap dash. I think once July 15th is here, then you can say whatever you want.

[Acadia]

Fans need to know the rules. That's the only way to understand what they are watching. How that could be such a foreign concept to the sanctioning body is mind-boggling. Maybe that's why so many fans are turned off, the attitude of the sanctioning body towards the fans.


The point I was trying to make here, and with other similar topics, is that matters of race procedures, fees, payouts, etc. are made perfectly clear to those on a "need-to-know" basis. A team member that needs to know, has access to those answers. I'm not sure anybody on here really needs to know the exact blow-by-blow of how the midway break is going to transpire, but since it seems to be such a foreign concept, then here you go, straight from the entry blank ...

The TOWN FAIR TIRE “100” is to be run in two segments. There will be a five (5) minute break at or near the conclusion of lap 50. Once the yellow flag is displayed at the start/finish line for the break, the caution car will pick up the field. Once the field is under control, the caution car will lead the field on to pit road to your assigned pit stall. No work is to be performed at the break until the last car in the field is in its assigned pit stall and the red flag is displayed at the starters stand. All participants in the event will be allowed to make changes that would normally occur during a routine pit stop. DO NOT REMOVE BODY PANELS. Approximately two (2) minutes will be allowed for chassis adjustments and changes. In NASCAR’s judgment, any unauthorized adjustments that are performed may be assessed a penalty. A maximum of five (5) uniformed crew members in the car servicing area. At the break, if an announcer approaches your car, please lower your window net and stay in the car. The break will be five (5) minutes. The time will start when the last car stops on pit road and the red flag is displayed. We will roll the caution car at the five (5) minute mark and any car that is not on track may be assessed a penalty. At the end of the break, cars will line up with lead lap cars to the front.

[uticamike]

.....2013 - The number 10. Count them 10 Tour teams will not be running in the WMT or anywhere else in 2013.........

Would you care to list the 10?

[MXCHAMP04]

I'm sorry, but this is a complete joke. I have finally convinced four of my coworkers on the awesome show of the mods. They have already been watching the cup cars to a small extent this year and interested in racing in a small way. So, after touting the mods for four years now to them, and finally they wanted to really go see this race, we get a coffee break. Sorry man, but they're gonna think it's a complete joke, and will surely laugh at it, and me, for suggesting we see this race above all others. You should really examine why the WMT has the same cars year after year and is just recycling drivers. Look at the drivers/cars you have lost. Summers, Dupuis, Sypher, Rodgers, Grigas, Rudolph, all gone, and these just came to mind without even really having to think. And a lot more just running select events. Ask yourself why does the VMRS have 41 entries for today (not sure how many will show), and their car counts keep rising year after year. Yuo should do things 100% the right way, or get out of the way.Well I went to Stafford for the VMRS practice today. Even with the threat of the weather, there was still over 30 teams. I'm quite sure some teams didn't show beacuse of the weather. 24 of the same cars for the WMT tomorrow. I also find it funny that long time WMT teams are now running on the VMRS, something we would not have seen a couple years ago. Hello WMT, get your head out of the sand, or it really just shows you don't care about modified racing.

[RGeeProductions]

I am wondering why, if the WMT is so bad, that out of the 4 tours the mods have, WMT, WSMT, RoC and VMRS, that the WMT (20) has had the most mods attend all races to date in 2012. WSMT (19) rates 2nd...... RoC (17) & VMRS (15)

[Acadia]

I am amazed at the post below from NWMT PR.

This post demonstrates profound, audacious arrogance on the part of NASCAR. NASCAR has made it conclusive and irrefutable that the fans, the public, and the customers, do not need to know the rules.

Imagine going to a hockey game, baseball game, football game, soccer game, etc. and only the teams are allowed to know the rules? Absolutely absurd!!!! You would have no chance at understanding or enjoying the games.




The point I was trying to make here, and with other similar topics, is that matters of race procedures, fees, payouts, etc. are made perfectly clear to those on a "need-to-know" basis. A team member that needs to know, has access to those answers. I'm not sure anybody on here really needs to know the exact blow-by-blow of how the midway break is going to transpire, but since it seems to be such a foreign concept, then here you go, straight from the entry blank ...

The TOWN FAIR TIRE “100” is to be run in two segments. There will be a five (5) minute break at or near the conclusion of lap 50. Once the yellow flag is displayed at the start/finish line for the break, the caution car will pick up the field. Once the field is under control, the caution car will lead the field on to pit road to your assigned pit stall. No work is to be performed at the break until the last car in the field is in its assigned pit stall and the red flag is displayed at the starters stand. All participants in the event will be allowed to make changes that would normally occur during a routine pit stop. DO NOT REMOVE BODY PANELS. Approximately two (2) minutes will be allowed for chassis adjustments and changes. In NASCAR’s judgment, any unauthorized adjustments that are performed may be assessed a penalty. A maximum of five (5) uniformed crew members in the car servicing area. At the break, if an announcer approaches your car, please lower your window net and stay in the car. The break will be five (5) minutes. The time will start when the last car stops on pit road and the red flag is displayed. We will roll the caution car at the five (5) minute mark and any car that is not on track may be assessed a penalty. At the end of the break, cars will line up with lead lap cars to the front.

[Racer1_NC]

It's not about cost reduction, it's about getting people in the stands. That will increase revenue.

NASCAR needs to be working on getting the stands full again. I'm amazed at the empty stands with the Camping World and Nationwide series, and the empty stands at the Cup races. How does the Camping World and Nationwide series exist with trivial ticket sales, and how does that get them TV time? I don't get it... people won't go to the track to see them, but they get TV coverage. Why the loss of interest? I went to a Cup race at Loudon several years ago and the ticket was over $100 bucks and I was lucky to get the ticket. Remember when the waiting list for a ticket to Loudon was years long? Today, NHMS is pushing tickets for a fraction of the price and can't come close to packing the joint. It clearly isn't the ticket prices, for they have fallen dramatically. It's the PRODUCT!!!!! Fix the product!!!!! Competition cautions are detrimental to the product from the perspective of the fans, the people that buy the tickets. It is remarkable to see how many people travel to Loudon to see the modifieds, a true testament to the race they put on.

It is too late to try cost reduction, that time was a long time ago.

Now is when the seller, NASCAR, has to invest in the product to make it better. Right now, NASCAR needs to promote, promote, promote, and promote some more. NASCAR needs to pitch in to the purse big time to get cars to come out. When that happens, the people will come back.

NASCAR had a product that was amazing and sold itself. Now NASCAR has to actually work at it and they are at a loss.

I think this post above all others hit the nail on the head.....particularly the statement I highlighted.... Most any driver can run well in a fast car.....it takes a wheel man to run well in a slower one. The same holds true in business.

Several years ago I came to the conclusion that NASCAR and the track owners were thinking the explosion in popularity would continue forever. They made changes over time that alienated it's old fan base. When the "new, in thing" wore off the CUP races, the newer fans left...joining the older ones. I'm 53 and I can remember a time I'd NEVER miss a Cup race on TV.....now I can't remember the last one I watched...much less enjoyed. For all I know they may be the best thing going.....but I'm past the point of caring enough to even check one out.

I've always loved modifieds....from the first time I saw one at Bowman Gray as a child to the current day..modifieds have been my race car of choice. I attend every mod race I can from Bowman Gray to most all NWSMT shows. I try to travel to a few NWMT races as time and money allow. When the ROC was a NASCAR show I was there. These days I'm not seeing many shows on the schedule that jump out at me as "must see" races. NHIS was on my bucket list.....and for now it still is but if this trend continues I'm uncertain that it will be worth the trip.

Do I have the answers to all this? Not a chance.... I do know what this life long race fan and former crew member will spend money and time to see.... As bad as I hate to say it...the list grows shorter every year.

[NWMT PR]

You don't get it . Who cars what the hell K&N is doing. The WMT is a MODIFIED not a full body race car. Nobody goes to watch the K&N races. Why do the Modifieds have to run like a K&N car ? It's a MODIFIED. Do yourself a favor and get a history lesson on what a Modified race car is.

This reply isn't necessarily solely for MOD11RACER, but for the group as a whole.

If you don't care about the K&N Series, then fine. I've tried to encourage everyone not to compare the Mods with the K&N before, but that has fallen on deaf ears. But this is the Modified forum, so we'll talk about only Modifieds if that's what everyone wants. I won't mention K&N and midway breaks, spec motors or gear rules, and you won't talk about K&N purses, schedules and TV deals. Do we have a deal, everyone?


MOD11RACER ... I may not have been around in the 60s, 70s or 80s in the good ole days of Modified racing, but I've made it a point to become well educated on the history of the division. Anyone who knows me, knows that to be the case.

[Acadia]

Here’s a perspective from a preeminent Mod car owner, from a 2005 Hartford Courant article. The full passage is below, and here is a link to it:

http://articles.courant.com/2005-04-10/sports/0504100652_1_nascar-director-nascar-whelen-modified-tour-president-of-dale-earnhardt


First, here’s a highlight…


But Garbarino thinks more can be done for team owners to help offset racing costs.

Garbarino estimates that it costs a minimum of $150,000 to run the series. That's just getting a team on the track -- the numbers rise dramatically for a team looking to be competitive.

With an average winner's share of about $6,000 over 19 races, even a team winning every event would still fall short of its expenses.

``If you get a third of the money back in purses that you spend you're doing real good,'' Garbarino said.

So $150k/19 races is $7,900 average to run a race. And to be competitive costs much more.

That’s just as I have been saying, most have been saying. And since that article was published, purses have gotten smaller and costs have risen, making things worse for the owners. So how can purse cuts in the Cup, NW, truck, and K&N series be used to substantiate cuts in the mod series that is already a money losing deal for the owners? Somebody, anybody, please explain.

Can owners afford to lose more? Apparently some think so. Car counts say otherwise.

It appears that since the upper crust series in NASCAR are obviously well funded, perhaps it was assumed that the Mod Tour was also similarly endowed.

How can anyone not be stunned by purse cuts when the purses have been woefully deficient?

There are/were operations that had cars exclusively for Loudon. Think of how many first places that car would have to win to pay for itself, and with limited opportunities. And when it didn't string together the wins, it lost money. No team comes close to stringing wins together for the first place winnings at Loudon to pay for dedicated cars. So when you consider the cost of a dedicated Loudon car, there was no way first place winnings covered the cost to run Loudon. No way. And if anyone doesn’t agree with that, go get the financials for all teams that ran Loudon for the last 15 years and prove it otherwise. LOL

It is incredulous that some are shocked over the grumbling due to the Loudon purse cuts. With the way costs have risen and the purse being cut, those that think Loudon is pot of gold need to think again. Repeating over and over that the Loudon purse is the largest is sort of disingenuous. It comes down to paying the cost to run the cars, and the Loudon purse isn’t getting it done, and it isn’t going to make up for the woefully deficient purses from the rest of the season.





Hawk Gives Modifieds A Sense Of Direction
April 10, 2005|By SHAWN COURCHESNE; Courant Staff Writer
THOMPSON — It's an attitude that seems all too strange in the paddock of the NASCAR Whelen Modified Tour.

Happiness. Optimism. A feeling that NASCAR is showing support for the security and future of the Modified Tour. All are viewpoints that were rarely heard from Modified competitors and owners the past few years.


The Modified Tour season kicks off today with the Icebreaker at Thompson International Speedway with a new title sponsor and burgeoning feeling that the series is back on a positive path.

``I know we've been accused over the years of making promises to help the Modifieds and they didn't come through. Now we're doing it,'' said Don Hawk, NASCAR director of regional racing development.

It's a major change from two years ago when drivers and owners seemed on the brink of revolt. From the outside the series looked to be the picture of health, attracting overflow car counts at nearly every event and playing to packed grandstands.

But it was clear to all involved that NASCAR was focusing on the Busch North Series, the other NASCAR regional division based in New England.

Busch North was getting increased purses, new venues and coveted national TV time. The BNS was also struggling to get more than 25 cars to show up at events and putting on some of the most boring racing around.

``In the past we've always had this warm and fuzzy feeling from NASCAR,'' said Ed Flemke Jr., a Modified Tour driver from Southington. ``They were always telling us how important we were and how much they were going to do for us and there was never any action or results.''

That all seemed to change with Hawk's arrival in March 2004. Hawk, the former president of Dale Earnhardt Inc., immediately focused on the Modified Tour.

The changes abound for 2005. Oxford-based Whelen Engineering has replaced Featherlite as title sponsor. The winner's share of purses has been increased. And Martinsville Speedway is back on the schedule. There is also a new Southern-based Modified Tour.

``Don Hawk, he's a smooth talker but he is coming through with stuff,'' Plainville driver Ted Christopher said. ``I saw him at a lot of races last year and he always came over talked and he always said he was trying to work stuff and he definitely is. At least if you can have somebody there and their voice is really going from the track and to NASCAR, that's all you want. Hopefully things keep getting better and better.''

Hawk understood that many were immediately skeptical of his promises.

``When I first came on the scene, what I heard from most people was, `We've heard it before.''' Hawk said. ``I think guys like [car owners] Bob Garbarino and Don Barker, I've gotten honest assessments from them. It's basically come down [to] that saying from Joe Paterno, `Don't show me your talk, show me your walk.' The one thing they've been able to see is that we did tell them we were going to do things and we've done it.

``We're really trying to change the face of short-track racing in the country and we're not just saying it.''

Mystic's Garbarino, a car owner on the Modified Tour since its inception in 1985, has been surprised by the passion Hawk has shown for the division.

``He's kind of a dynamic guy,'' Garbarino said. ``I'm impressed with his energy for the job and I just hope the powers that be allow him to do his job. I'm always saying the glass is half full instead of half empty. I see somebody there that is trying to do something.''

But Garbarino thinks more can be done for team owners to help offset racing costs.

Garbarino estimates that it costs a minimum of $150,000 to run the series. That's just getting a team on the track -- the numbers rise dramatically for a team looking to be competitive.

With an average winner's share of about $6,000 over 19 races, even a team winning every event would still fall short of its expenses.

``If you get a third of the money back in purses that you spend you're doing real good,'' Garbarino said.

Garbarino is not asking NASCAR to put more money in by itself. He wants the sanctioning body to do a better job of selling the division to sponsors.

``Every time they talk to us about making the tour better it's based on them making us more saleable to somebody,'' Garbarino said. ``I agree with that. But I think they have to take a totally different approach. I think they have to go out and do the selling vs. polishing us up so we can go sell ourselves.''

Garbarino has a plan he would like NASCAR to examine.

``What would happen if NASCAR, in terms of sales, went to work and said to Mr. UPS, `OK, you've got a $20 million dollar budget for Dale Jarrett's [Nextel Cup Series] car [with Robert Yates Racing],''' Garbarino said. ```We want you to go in to Robert Yates and say, Robert, we're only going to give you $19,750,000 this year and we're going to give Bob Garbarino $250,000 to run his tour car.' I don't think Robert Yates is going to throw them out the door.

``But what I do think is that a big percentage of Dale Jarrett's fans, if they are exposed to Modified racing, would then be a fan of the UPS car in the Modified Tour. And conversely ... if the car they cheered for in the Modified Tour was sponsored by UPS, they would cheer for that car in the Cup series.''