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racefan1
06-19-2005, 07:35 PM
Kevin orlando finIshed 12th, why did he get put to last in the results? (DOES?) anyone know?

Charlie's Angel
06-19-2005, 07:54 PM
I was wondering why he was listed last as well. As for him being 12th, the board last night listed Charlie 12th. I believe Kevin was lapped when he got back on the track but I'm not sure. But I didn't think he was last. The Jam just listed him the way the board listed it I believe.

W. Johnston
06-19-2005, 10:20 PM
The word I heard, listening to the officials on the radio, was rough riding, though no specific incident or incidents were mentioned. :confused: They wanted him placed dead last, not even the last car on the lead lap.

racefan1
06-19-2005, 10:48 PM
Kevin was not put a lap down, he came back up to 12th or 13th.....but then I heArd rumor the Denniston came back to the Orlando trialEr and told Kevin he was racing like an a**hole :( and he was a disGrace to all rookies that haVE cOme onto his race track...Kevin did spin the 57 out, but I do not think it was on purpose, that's just racing. If it did come down from the officIals, I do not agree with the call :( To put him dead last for rough riding. I've seen people spin others and not get penAlized....if any one else happens to have any information on this subject, please let me know.

44chargerfan
06-20-2005, 01:31 PM
Dan Turbush {::Cough::} {::Cough::}

LongIslandJam
06-20-2005, 01:44 PM
Dan Turbush, LOL. Obviously you didn't see them tear down his car last week...

I'll find out the official reason and then make a judgement. Until then hold on.

unowho243
06-20-2005, 02:40 PM
It's funny how the penalize Kevin for that, yet Blewett, Anderson and Denniston were all in the Mod feature.

Turbo
06-20-2005, 05:25 PM
:confused: what you mean chargerfan44? :confused:

44chargerfan
06-20-2005, 06:36 PM
Turbo, no offense, but I have seen Dan plow through some people. My friend Ron Hlatky raced against him last year, and he said he watched him plow through some guys.

Turbo
06-20-2005, 06:39 PM
plowed? nah... used the bumper , yes. Short track racing for ya. He got the 22 with his bumper and gained a spot and the 22 finished behind not losing more than that one spot so that is not dirty. Think what you want but I think thats GREAT short track racing. If he had spun them out, ok... But the fact is he didnt. :p

theshow7ny
06-20-2005, 07:21 PM
The kid in the 99 spun out the 13 before he spun out the 57. The Garret was had a good run going, he was all the way up to 11th from 17th. But the 99 spun him out going into turn one. It says it right in the Charger results, also, but they have his car number wrong. I know for a fact that Garret had a brief word with Orlando after the race, and his reply was that Garret did not give him the lane.
Are you kidding me!!! Didn't give him the lane, I'm sorry, next time we will pull over for you. It's a real shame that a few guys in this divisIon only know how to drive through you instead of driving around you. After that spin the right rear was used up and he did a great job just to bring it home in 14th.

jimmy'z
06-20-2005, 07:25 PM
My friend Ron Hlatky raced against him last year and he said he watched him plow through some guys.

Comparing it to poker; I'd call that a draw. Or push.

Jimmy D.
06-20-2005, 07:34 PM
I have 2 things to say. 1, Last week I was put finishing last instead of 16th for turning the 5 car by accident. Yet I was turned around by the 36 that same week, and the week before I was turned by the 25. NEither of those 2 cars were put finishing last. Consistency would be nice. About Dan, He uses his bumper like the rest of us out there but I don't think he drives through people on purpose, like a few other drivers out there. I just had this discussion with Dan and Chris on Sunday at the truck race.

Charlie's Angel
06-20-2005, 08:00 PM
As for Dan, Charlie has been racing with him for a few years now and we haven't had a problem with him at all. He passes us, yes but he has always taken us clean.He has had plenty of opportunity to dump us and has never done it. Not exactly sure why his name was brought up in this thread but since it was, speaking for myself, I think he is a great racer. You give respect on the track, you get respect. I don't want to list the names of those that drive through other racers, but Dan wasn't champion for running through the other guys.

Again, just my opinion. I don't know him personally, just stating what I've seen in the 4 or 5 years of watching Charlie race against him.

As for Jimmy D., you are correct, consistency would be nice. It definately wasn't fair of them to put you dead last the week before. You have never dumped anyone purposely. Your record shows that. It is a shame. I'm assuming maybe with the officials it is hard to tell sometimes who is intentional or accidental. I mean the Mod race the week before was a little more obvious!

All I can say is that I wouldn't want the job of an official. The fact that they put Jimmy and Kevin to last I guess is their way of trying to be fair. They can't see it all, I guess. Or maybe it's just Bill that makes those decisions when HE, himself sees the dumping. I don't know. But Kevin is a good racer and he should just brush it off and move on to the next race.

Don't everyone slam me, this is only my opinion and I don't race the car, so I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for you all to get penalized when you think you haven't done anything wrong.

Good luck to you all July 2nd!! May you all have a great race!

Jimmy D.
06-20-2005, 08:18 PM
ANGEL, Thanks for the kind words. Just let you know, I spoke with Bill this past Sat. He had no idea as to why I was put last. I was told the reason was because I turned the #5 by Jimmy. Bill told me he would talk to Jimmy and find out why. So obviously, Jimmy makes these calls, and not Bill.

LongIslandJam
06-20-2005, 08:23 PM
You're right. Dan Turbush should have not been brought up in this thread. And I think we got some good insight from others.

Dan Turbush and for that matter, any Turbush or virtually anyone out there will race you like you race them. Perhaps Hlatky and Dan had a tussle week's before and Dan didn't particularly care for a move Hlatky did. Who knows. Either way, from watching Dan over the past few years, he races you like you race him.

With the 22x and 8 incident, I saw that. The 8 did appear to move the 22x out of the way. He didn't spin him nor wall him, but did move him. It was last lap, and during that lap, everyone races the hardest they can do. Many folks who have been past champions have done similiar type moves. Is it legal - YES, is it right - that's up for debate as many would say it would be an ok move not move a racer while others (like I'm sure the 22) would argue it's not the way to go.

As Jim Donnelly can attest to, if you are caught rough riding, you've been kept an eye on, and the act is deemed pretty atrocious by the officials, they will put you in the back. It's common practice. Kevin Orlando is one racer to keep an eye on, as he's going to be good. But he still needs refinement. Two weeks ago, he kept bumping the leader to move him and wound up spinning himself. Last week he won. He's definitely more than capable of doing well, but refinement is something he needs, and with experience, I think that will happen.

As far as penalizing everyone who gets dumped or spun... That's a really tough job. There are plenty of people I have seen get dumped and spun and no penalty resulted and this ranges from supposed favorites to joe nobodies. 25 cars in a feature is a tough feat to watch for 4-6 officials. Different angles also tell a very different story (as in every sport). Sometimes you can see it going to happen, sometimes you can't tell. I know when I was on a Late Model team, we would get dumped constantly. Sometimes the black flag would wave, sometimes it wouldn't. I would be scratching my head and wondering why, but it's tough to keep an eye on everyone.

LongIslandJam
06-20-2005, 08:31 PM
And Jim, you make another excellent point.

Denniston stays away from making calls usually. The officiating team at the ramp of Jim, Mike, Wayne along with the flagmen and other officials coordinate their efforts as a team effort.

If you have a problem with a call, ask your driver about it. Note, I didn't say ask the official about it. The driver is the spokesperson and if they are that perturbed by a call, tell them to go in a polite manner when things aren't hectic and ask an official. Usually they'll give a response and find out for you. You may not like the answer, but at least they got feedback about the situation.

Remember 99% of calls are final, just like in any sport. Sports are a thing where you have to make judgement calls on the spur of the moment and one instance. There is no instant replay. Not all calls will be right. Humans are imperfect beings. It's unfortunate, but robot officials haven't been invented yet, and I have not seen any sport use them to my knowledge (and Madden computer games don't count). Until then, we must live with some error, but as long as the effort is behind it and they try their best, that's all that matters.

IDRIVEALARGECAR
06-20-2005, 09:54 PM
The officiating has been subpar for as far back as I can remember, not only at Riverhead, but also Freeport and Islip as well. There will always be someone unhappy with a call or calls made, it's just the way it is and one of the reasons I stay away and go north from time to time. Even there the officiating is sometimes never the way that you always want it to be. It's all part of each and every race tracks way of doing things. As far as people using their bumpers, well, that's another story that can be gone over here in the forums for the next 10 years or so. If you'rE not supPoseD to use it, then why have it there? Bumper shot and belligerent dumps have been going on for as long as racing has been going on. If you'rE faster and the guy in front doESn't move after a few taps, then your suPposed to gracefully move him up the track and drive around him, not dump and run, or plain drive right through them. Everyone is entitled to race their line and hold it as long as they can, but to outright hold people up and slow a whole line of cars up is not perfect race etiquette. But that's all just my opinion from the stands this year, and yes, the rookies this year are very talented, as well as some other sophmore drivers and some who are still sorting out whatever they might be sorting out. I just hope no one gets hurt from anyone's selfishness or desire to try to get where they've never ever been before, or the relentless pursuit of victory, because after all, it is supposed to be fun for all, not a free for all. Good luck, guys I will be watching Joey C.

wayne
06-20-2005, 10:30 PM
Well said !!

allhailunc
06-21-2005, 06:33 AM
I have long been one of Danny's fans, as well as Rusty & now Chris-intentionally take someone out? I'm not so sure. Yes, he can be rough out there, but that is short track racing-race clean-you get it back-race hard-you get that back too-race dirty-you get that back in spades. There has been an awful lot of rough racing in every division this year, and maybe, just maybe, the officials have decided to clamp down-just happened to be on Kevin. He's just a kid learning (and doing that pretty damn well, don't you think?), so rookie mistakes are a probability. But just like his dad, who I also greatly respect, he is a hard but good racer. Maybe with this, the officials will now take a long, hard look into each and every division and begin to make sure that those needing some discipline get such. Kevin, chalk it up to experience and go back out there and do what you know how to do-short track race. Good luck son. :wave:

racefan1
06-21-2005, 11:52 AM
I agree with you, idrivealargecar, if a car is faster thAn another, and he is holding everyone witch (WHICH?)the 57 was doinG to the 99, get out of his way. Orlando was all over the bumber (BUMPER?) of the 57 for 3 laps, and he didn't move, so Kevin went to move him, not spin him, but it was a rookin (ROOKIE?)mistake spinging (SPINNING?) him.

Orlando didn't mean to spin the 57, he tried doinG the same thing Danny did with the 22...I don't agree with the call.....if they are gonna do that to anyone, do it to the guys that are dumpinG people week in and week out.

theshow7ny
06-21-2005, 02:11 PM
hey racefan1 what about the 13 car, that was no accident. what was that about?

racefan1
06-21-2005, 03:54 PM
I never saw he (HIM?) spin the 13.

Ace
06-21-2005, 08:46 PM
Ted Christopher has a 3 bump rule
1st bump I'm here
2nd bump you better pick a lane
3rd bump I picked it for you
He didn't dump him he moved him. That's good short track racing to me.

theshow7ny
06-21-2005, 10:04 PM
Well, I call it low down and dirty. Look what happened to BlewEtt when he moved Anderson over last week? He got EXACTLY what he deserved. What goes around, comes around. :applause:

LongIslandJam
06-21-2005, 10:13 PM
I disagree with you on that. Blewett and Turbush's moves are not the same. Blewett did an outright dump, not a move. Turbush was a move. I think we're comparing apples and oranges.

trigger22
06-21-2005, 10:50 PM
Hey JA -
Just so you know, Justin was not upset about Danny moving him. This kid has been racing go-karts since he was 7 anD knows what it's like to be moved and to move someone. His radio man even said, "Here comes Danny. Be prepared, he will try to move you, but he will not dump you" Danny has been racing Riverhead for a long time and knows every single inch of that track. That's what makes him a true champion.

LongIslandJam
06-21-2005, 10:57 PM
I didn't think he was. Some get rattled by it. I got thick skin, so it don't bother me. Some don't. Well since this post has gotten way off topic (from Orlando to Turbush to T/C to Bonsignore. Let's call it a thread. I feel I explained the situation in great detail before and that should sum up all sides of it.