Looking for Driver Opinion...

[Mortgage Guy]

I am from New York and had a great time at your race track this weekend, I just had one problem, all of these accidents seemed to be caused by one thing.. You poor guys are driving blind, you need help from either a spotter or a mirror..I know they leave them out to aviod any blocking, but don't you feel that you would have better racing with more cars left on the track at the end if you tried one of these. Without any aid to help you know who is around you it causes more tension and hotter tempers. When the leader chops the second place driver because he doesn't know he is even there, that's a problem. I saw that a lot yesterday that led to quite a few cautions and a lot of wrecked race cars....Start small and inexpensive and let these guys throw a mirror in the car, I bet you that your racing will go much smoother and you will have more competitors at the track because they won't be clipping their cars.. What do you as drivers think of this?? Again this is just my opinion and even with all of the crashes I had a great weekend and look forward to returning to your track..

[ladydriver]

:disgusted
The only thing I saw and heard in the stands was POOR SPORTSMANSHIP!!! The 9 (Yamelski) won the championship and all I heard was old man Kline calling him a loser, the whole race, and my son, who is 6, said what a poor loser!!! The accidents were intenTional dumps and we all know it!!!! Take the Kline incident!! He put the 97 in the back wall when he was being passed!! (this is not the first time these two have tangled) he knew the 97 was there too!! But that doesn't give the 97 the right to put the bumper to him and push him down the back straight!! Then Kline, who has the sportsmanship, like his dad, has to back up and get a 20 foot run into the 97 door!!!!!!! Kline has showN behavior like this before (street stock shoot out)
It always seems to be an outsider that poses a threat to him by being faster!!
and as far as Barbush passing on the last lap he was there, and the 44 knew it and just ran him up, but as for poetic justice goes the 44's rear broke!!! as for the 11 mod, he just hung himself all the way around!!!! But the overall mod race was the best I have seen in a long time!!!!! :applause: :applause:
I would love to be a fly on the wall at the banquet, sparks will fly, I'm sure!!!!
and as far as mirrors go I think they should be allowed that way there is no excuse!! :disgusted (I didN't see him!!!!!)

[Rich Johnson]

I have been running at Mountain for years...I enjoy my visits there.
The "no rearview mirror" rule applies at other area tracks. I get the impression they are use to it and accept it. Maybe they had a "mirror driving" problem and found this to be the cure.
I run Enduro and I cringe when we have a red flag...Hearing screeching tires from behind while stopped is unnerving...
Myself and others have voiced out thoughts to Billy B. on the subject.
At a drivers meeting, Billy said he would consider a change in the future.
I have seen a black flag "shaken" as a warning at Mountain. This could be used at the first sign of "mirror driving" if he changes the rule for Enduros.

RACINRICH

[White Lightnin]

The "no mirror" rule goes way back to the early 80's when Ed Spencer slowed down and waited for Tony Hirschman to lap him. When Tony went to go around his outside, Ed walled him in between the third and fourth turn causing a pretty good sized riot to take place. Ed assumed that Tony had something to do with Jimmy going out on the hook on an earlier lap. Of course, he didn't. The place just hasn't had any mirrors since.

[CSLMOTORSPORTS]

Well, we are not in the 80's anymore. The cars are faster and cost more money, so why would driver's not want to know who is around them? I, for one, come from a track where you had both a mirror and radio.The racing was better in the sense that you knew if there was a faster car coming, also you knew if someone had their nose up by you. Yes, with mirrors you can block, but the faster car will get around. With no mirrors, you sure did have a lot of wrecked race cars on Sunday at KoTM, mine included. Try and give mirrors back to the guys; if you think someone is blocking, give them the rolled up black flag as a warning. If it keeps happening, let the black flag fly. Radios would help also, I know that I want every chance to run people clean and I'm sure other drivers want the same thing. Sorry for going on and on, but just my opinion. Let's hearsome others.
Thanks, Scott Lehmann

[2j Late Model]

I've been running late models for 5 years, and not having a mirror has been okay to me. The only guys/gals that have trouble at Mt are the outsiders. All other drivers that run here know when they have the spot and when they don't, and if they don't they back off. The only thing that needs to be watched is the drivers bumpers. I got hit in the rear so many times, and spun around that I thought I was at dorney park in the tea cups. The weekly drivers have no complaints, and mirror's are not needed. I guess we will see how the Walt race goes this weekend, and see if there is any difference since radios and mirror's are allowed.

Jason 2j

[richardpetey]

When you drive with the aid of seeing-eye dogs......mirrors ain't much help.................................... :eek:
I have trouble seeing through my windshield screen, as it is, now I gotta watch my mirror vibrate at 6 grand, hehe................... :help:
UNCLE PETEY....................... :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[88racer]

I for one think that mirrors and or radio's would be a big help. Especially for beginner drivers who are still getting the feel for their car and the track. We have run at tracks that require radio's and have found them to be a great help. How many times have we all seen a lead car get taken out by a lapped car? Yes we have the "move over" flag but if it happens on the back stretch, or if it's the second place car and the lapped car doesn't know it.....they are still running their race for position as well and can't be expected to move over for every motor behind them. Mirror/radio's would allow a driver to know if it is someone they are racing with or a lead car that is approaching much faster then they are aware.

I understand that management has trouble with getting cars to line up properly if they are communicating with the spotters and not monitoring the track radio, but other tracks make it work, I have confidence Mt. can too. :applause:

Sue
Team 88

[Mortgage Guy]

Like I said in the beginning of this post, start small. Allow the drivers to put a mirror in and still stay on the scanner with the track so if they are blocking the officials can warn them, I think you would see much smoother racing and much cooler tempers...Radios tend to get expensive, so to keep the cost down a racing mirror is around $40.00 which should be in most teams budgets as opposed to $1500.00

[NJ Chick]

I appreciate what's being said about the radios and mirrors, it's always interesting to see other points of view from non-regular racers. Last weekend there were many new cars racing for the first time at Mountain, plus it was the last points race for the regulars. Putting those two scenarios together made for a wreck infested race day, no question. I don't think having mirrors would have changed any of that. Everyone seemed to be on a mission and tempers were going to be boiling no matter what. Personally, I think drivers should be looking in front of them, not worrying about what is going on behind them. Paying attention, watching the line the person in front of you is running, being patient and making the pass when it's safe, is what should be the focus, not seeing who is tapping on your bumper and getting ready to pass you....unless you plan to block. As for the black flag, I think it would be hard to prove "mirror driving" as there could be too many excuses that could be made.

I've been to Riverhead to see their enduros, which let them use the mirrors.
40 cars started and only 12 finished in a 40 lap race...something tells me that mirrors aren't helping end wrecks. NEETS has a much higher finishing quotient and we don't use the mirrors, so why fix something that isn't broken?
Just my two cents! :wave:

Hey Mortgage Guy, I love your avatar!! :lol:

[JCenduro]

:help: :eek: I think you're going too slow if you are worried about who's :confused: on your bumper. If you have time to look in the mirror instead of paying attention to what's in front of you, you need to get going faster. Faster cars don't need mirrors as much as slower cars need to get engines. :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :help:

[88racer]

Although I agree that many of the issue's on Sunday were from first time drivers/and the points thing, I do know that mirrors aid a driver in where a fellow driver is "beside" them..........not so much "behind" them.

Sue

[CIN]

Remember, a couple big differences between Riverhead Enduros and Mountain are: Riverhead does not allow pitting at anytime during the race. They do not throw the red flag for every car that stops on the track. And, they do not allow passengers.

Riverhead years ago used to open up the pits during a red flag for those cars that could get out from the infield, pit for whatever reason, and get back out on the track in a reasonable amount of time. When that did happen, you'd see a bunch of cars exit the track and a good percentage return. In those days, there were alot more cars that "finished" the race. Unfortunately, sometimes we would also witness some "Neanderthal" figure since he was so many laps down and couldn't win the race that no one else should either, and proceed to take out whoever he could. It has only been in the last 5 years that Riverhead stopped opening the pits during the red. Why, I don't know, that would be something for a track official to answer.

Riverhead also never has the pits open during the green, for any race, and that includes the Saturday night divisions. You breakdown, you go in the infield, you wait. With the regular Saturday night divisions, they wait in the infield and pray for a caution. With the enduros, you wait for the end of the race...You're day is over.

Riverhead also does not throw the red flag for every car that might stop on the track for whatever reason. There could be a 10 car pile up and you have to navigate your way around it or be it. It's an enduro - you endure.

Who's right - who's wrong - NEITHER - NO ONE.

It is the individual track's right to set their policy however they want. They can accept the advice from drivers and fans alike, choose to make changes or stay as they are. It is a drivers choice to run that track or not. No one is forcing anyone to run.

As for the mirror situation - I've driven Riverhead enduros, both with the guys and just the girls and now I've driven Mountain for the Femduro. Mirrors, yes at Riverhead I used my mirror; did I use it to block - no. I had enough with trying to concentrate on going forward. (I'M A REAL ROOKIE) I would have liked a mirror at Mountain, just for the sake that that is what I am used to driving with everyday. Would I have done any better? (8th). I don't know. Not being nervous would have helped. But, one situation I will bring up that I noticed while driving and never noticed before - passengers that spot for their driver. I would have liked the opportunity to just drive against the driver and not their passenger telling them when they could cut down and how to drive. If passengers are allowed in the next Femduro, then I guess I'll have my husband next to me telling me how to drive - then again - that could lead to divorce :lol: But knowing the rules of the individual track, I can choose to run or not. Oh, I think I'll run and just have a good time.

Just my 5 cents: inflation you know.

Cin :wave:

[richardpetey]

Wholly Molley! If you talk in the car like you post on this site, everybody will need earmuffs not a mirror, hehe........................ :eek:
Couldn't resist...who loves ya............... ;)
UNCLE PETEY...................... :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[CIN]

NAH...UNCLE PETEY
IN THE CAR I ONLY TALK IN SOUND BITES... :)
I DRIVE AROUND TEENAGERS, THAT'S ABOUT THE LENGTH OF THEIR ATTENTION SPAN... :lol:

[Mortgage Guy]

88 hit it right on the head, the sound of someone's motor should not be the only way that you can figure out if they are beside you or not, that is my point. If a faster car is coming up, you want to be able to give them the room (on the outside of course) to pass and not pinch them in the fence and take out 2 cars because you didn't know they were there...PUT THE MIRRORS IN FOR NEXT YEAR, the racing will be cleaner and safer..

[JCenduro]

:help: :confused: Let's be real. This is short track, not Nascar. When you're running short tracks like Mountain Speedway, the need for this is really pointless. Did you ever think that if someone looks in the mirror and sees a driver coming, they didn't like to take'm out? I think a driver's attention span should be forward and nothing else. If you see a fender and hear an engine, you already know someone's there. Drivers are going to give a little and take a little, regardless of a mirror or not. Let's face it, on short tracks like this there really no need for this, which I think would be more of a distraction then helping these drivers. Radios would help if they used more to inform the drivers of what's going on and where to be. There are a few tracks in Florida I know of that use the radio in every corner of speedway to help the flag man look for things and to relate them to the tower. They talk to the drivers and warn them or black flag them themselves, not always counting on flag man to see everything. That's my four cents worth. Another for the archives. lol :wave: :wave: :wave: :rolleyes:

[CSLMOTORSPORTS]

Hey JCenduro what kind of car do you race,because in a Street Stock you really can't see a car unless he is right beside you.By then it is to late ,that guy has already stuffed you in the fence,and turned your car to junk.This is fact with your helmet on strapped in your seat you can't turn to see much . It is harder to see if your seat is low like in a Late Model,Pro Stock,etc.So if for no other reason the mirror should be used so a driver knows who he is racing with, for both drivers sake.It does not matter if you have a mirror or not you will get even with someone you think did you wrong.I know from experience I have a Street Stock ,two Riverhead Charger cars that I have raced for about 14 years.I have raced with mirrors and radios and have raced with no mirrors.Just for the record I would much rather have a mirror than not, just to know that I was not going to take anybody out by not knowing they were there. It sucks to have a wrecked race car ,and to hear the guy that drove you in the fence when you were going by on the outside say some crap like I did not know you were there.That is just my opinion on that.
Thanks,Scott Lehmann

[JCenduro]

Point taken Scott.I think everybody has their own experience one way or another.I raced Enduros for 22 years and factory stock for three.I never used mirrors,in either class so I guess I'm old fashion.I really believe the longer you run with good people in the respectful divisions you kinda know who runs ya clean and who don't.I ran flemington and they didn't allow mirrors although people had them.I know one thing for sure,the enduros at mountain and flemington for that matter were great racing and minus a couple bone heads once and a while,were much cleaner racing then what was seen in the regular divisions.I would rather run 4 wide in an enduro,then run side by side in a factory stock race. ps And thats without a mirror.lol