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NEETS-1
01-10-2006, 12:12 AM
The transponder system is the fastest, most accurate, and best system for an Enduro when it works properly. Hand scoring leaves room for "creative scoring" and is not reliable at all, at any time. Personally, I do not want to hear all the arguments that come from hand scoring. I have been there and can't believe 50/60 cars all think they won or are in the top ten.
I just want to mention that there are many ways it can be off. For one, if you do not cross the point where the wire is in the track, you will not be scored for that lap. (I tell you that almost every drivers meeting). Second, there are people not mounting the units properly in the cars or as in Bobby Pease's case, the car itself. When Caesar owned that car, the same problem existed, even though the unit looked as if mounted properly. (ignition system screwing with it?) I don't know. If the unit is sending out a weak signal because of the car, it may have missed a lap or two. I watched his race and my opinion is that he came in between 6th and 10th.
In Woot's case, it may have been when he was moved back behind the scoring line by the flagger when he was moving under a red flag condition. If he was caught doing it in the backstretch and moved back...the outcome of the race may have been different. Either way, it is still a one lap penalty.
As far as the 200 mph lap done by the 07 car....I will show you sheets that even in our weekly racing the computer will do that, but positions will not change...it is just a glitch. It won't put you ahead or behind anyone for a track position.
These people are all my friends and I do not want to see anyone "screwed" out of a position like some one most eloquently mentioned. If you have a better way of scoring a 70/80/90 car event, tell me.

EnduroFromDE
01-10-2006, 10:31 AM
Hey billy I have an idea :help:
To prevent the people banking a U-ey around the "wire on the track". is there any way to pave the front straight down to the victory lane by the concrete barrier and run the wire down to it?? That way, if someone does have to turn around down there, they will be going back across the line putting them back a lap, and then once they cross it again, it wll put them back on the lap they should be on? There lots a accidents that puts cars down in the dirt on the front straight to aviod it and the transponders don't pick up that lap and they're automatically one lap behind the leader. At the B w/ H III that happened to me two or three times. :disgusted
There are still three + months till the April race, so that's just something to thank about!! :confused:

DB Motorsports
01-10-2006, 11:53 AM
The scoring system we use is fine. The drivers that run modifieds and street stocks have a lot more money than we do tied up in their cars, and they run there weekly. Don't you think that if there was a problem, they would be the first ones to complain and something would be done about it? I just think it is a matter of the amount of cars we have on the track at the same time. I'm not saying to split the field, because I am totally against that idea, but a few things we could do to help the current situation would be to make sure that all the transponders are mounted properly before the race begins. I noticed that someone was walking through the pits checking out the cars before the race, just make sure they also check the location of the transponder, then after the small cars run, when you begin to line up the big cars, assign one person to walk around the track and look quick while they are lining up, it might take an extra five minutes before the big cars run, but it's better than pulling cars off the track and running 3 more caution laps while the Neets people fix a transponder. Also, to avoid what might have happened last race(don't know, didn't see it, too busy driving), place someone in the frontstretch grandstands to see if anyone does go around and gain a lap. Then, if that is the case, just manually deduct it from the result of the transponder scoring. As far as losing a lap for being off the track when crossing the start finish line, that's just racing, do your best to stay on the track.

Just one mans opinion!!! :disgusted

nobandwagonhere
01-10-2006, 12:02 PM
What about when your fastest lap is 5 sec on the printout? Does that count? Because its unanimous (within racers) :wave: that the 07 was at least 2-3 laps down. :wave:
ps Just for the record, the reason I run Mountain is for the transponders. I love them when they're working. I just think the printout should be reviewed. Maybe not right then and there, because of so much going on, but points and purse wise, maybe put on hold. That was my only glitch. :wave:
Hopefully, we'll see you in April!

CIN
01-10-2006, 12:31 PM
From someone who has manually scored Enduros races at Riverhead for over 10 years, I can personally say I like the transponder system better. One, from a totally selfish reason, I can watch the race, instead of just keeping my eye on one car at all times along with the clock. (don't get me wrong, I watch my husband race, but can also watch everyone else) Also, it is a nightmare for scorers when it rains, trying to keep those cards from getting wet & having pens/pencils that don't write correctly on wet cards. And, the amount of mistakes that the transponder system has as opposed to manual scoring, from what I've seen, is next to nothing. Do any of the Riverhead enduro drivers remember the years of creative scoring? I do. How many times did we sit after the races and try and figure out how so and so won? How many times did we hear how someone just gave someone low lap times, no matter how fast/slow they were going? Believe me, Riverhead has improved greatly in the past few years, but there were times in the past that we all couldn't figure out what was going on. Also, remember, with a manual scoring system, you need to bring your own scorer (or hire one for the day).

I guess no system is perfect. Maybe an answer would be for each driver to get their printout at the end of their race, go over it at the track and if you feel that there is something wrong, then approach the series officials right then & there.

Just my 50 cents....

CIN

Wendy Lady
01-10-2006, 02:32 PM
I agree with you Cin. I also did the manual score thing and I can tell you it is not fun at all. You miss most of the race and really have to keep your eye on your driver only. As with any system, there are always problems. But the transponders seem to be the best way to go.

shore taxi
01-10-2006, 08:30 PM
Billy
Did you get are Email about Glen Osborns transponder not working can we get a copy of the laps to see if it stoped scoreing us.

Mobigsly
01-10-2006, 08:38 PM
Hey Bill Gates said that about Microsoft. "The system is the fastest, most accurate, and best system on the market" lol...
I'll take the electronic over manual any day. I think making a teammate or friend sit in the stands and check off laps and write down times during the whole race would loose friends fast. After about lap 10 I would want to shoot my face off myself.

NEETS-1
01-10-2006, 10:33 PM
I talked to Brad (transponder operator). There were no problems w/ the computer at all. If something was scored differently than you think it should have, it was something that happened "on track". For example; transponder mounting, missing the line, spinning at the line, etc.
In the future, the finish will be posted after each race on the pit board. If you have a problem w/where you finished, you may ask to see him about it after the both races are over, and he will show you lap by lap, if need be, where you were on the track, as long as you are courteous. If anyone has an attitude or temper, he will cut it off at that point.
I have been part of the "hand scoring" deal and do not wish to spend 3 hours going over sheets after each race where everyone thinks they won. Most times the sheets are un-readable and you can't make heads or tails out of them anyway. Some scorers just don't give two flying you know whats and quit writing the laps...then the drivers are mad.
The transponder system is the best way to score an enduro w/ the amount of cars. It is your responsibility to make sure your unit is properly mounted as stated in the NEETS rules.
Also, if anyone w/ a computer backround would like to do an internship up in the tower w/ Brad and learn the system/help out...give me a shout.

SmallCar18
01-10-2006, 11:11 PM
I know I would never want to go back to manual scoring. Electronic scoring, for the most part, is way more accurate.

When they started using the transponders at MVS, they gave us pretty specific instructions for mounting the brackets. They said it needed to be mounted parallel with the frame rails with the side that gets clipped in with the pin pointing up. The hole in the floor needed to be big enough, so if you drew an imaginary line at a 45 deg angle from the bottom front corner of the transponder (when mounted in car), and another line at a 45 deg angle from the bottom back corner, the 2 lines and everything in between would have an unobstructed view of the track. I welded 2 pieces of steel together to make an L bracket and mounted the transponder bracket to it. I just zip screw the bracket to the floor so the transponder is over the hole. My brother and I have always followed that and we've never had problems with transponders at MVS or Mountain. Except, of course, for those infield excursions :).

Bobby Pease
01-11-2006, 08:00 AM
DB...
yes, mods and street stocks use this system also...BUT!! I don't think they run with 70+ cars, and I don't think they spew all sorts of fluids on the track, AND I think they don't regularly slam the walls......so you are correct in saying they have a lot more $$$ tied up in their cars, and I do think the system is good, too, but please don't compare us to the MODS and S/S's...................

As far as my 24th place finish...."oh well", mov'n on... Glitches happen all day, everyday, everywhere.. Mountain is still a great place to have fun, race and be treated with respect....

PS, Billy, Joe did pass me 1 time... you still Da man bro....LOL... :cool:

See yaz in April.....
Bobby Pease

DB Motorsports
01-11-2006, 09:00 AM
DB...
yes, mods and street stocks use this system, also...BUT!! I don't think they run with 70+ cars, and I don't think they spew all sorts of fluids on the track, AND I think they don't regularly slam the walls......so you are correct in saying they have a lot more $$$ tied up in their cars, and I do think the system is good too, but please don't compare us to the MODS and S/S's...................

As far as my 24th place finish...."oh well", mov'n on... Glitches happen all day, everyday, everywhere.. Mountain is still a great place to have fun, race and be treated with respect....

PS, Billy, Joe did pass me 1 time... you still Da man bro....LOL... :cool:

See yaz in April.....
Bobby Pease
I am not comparing us to them, just saying that they use the same exact system we do, and it seems to be working for them. I know our races are a lot different, with a lot more cars, and a lot more accidents. I just started doing this last year, and the first race I ran, the transponders didn't even register. Neets just scored the top ten and from 11th back there were no results. What I really want to know is how many problems have there been with the transponders since Neets started running up at Mountain? Like I said, I really don't know, because I just started doing this last year. So if any of you veterans could let me know if it was always like this, I would appreciate it.

Mobigsly
01-11-2006, 06:29 PM
When I ran the beater w/ heaters event in 05, I put the transponder in my jacket pocket because I didn't cut a hole, and I was too lazy to cut one at the track, and it worked for me.

richardpetey
01-11-2006, 09:14 PM
First, let me say the NEETS transponder scoring system is probably the best system on this planet........................... ;)
But, I have experienced a glitch last year when I drove with the transponder in my pocket...................... :help:
Apparently, during the race it turned a little sideways in my flamesuit pocket and its signal was registered intermittently ........................ :eek:
After that fiasco, I mounted my transponder bracket to the left rear frame rail perpendicular to the signal pick-up wire embedded in the track(standard mountain speedway transponder bracket mounting point)............... :rolleyes:
I am amazed that the transponder computers don't melt down when 15 or 20 enduro cars cross over the pick-up wire at 60/70mph all within a second of each other........................................ :confused:
I really need that secret weapon transponder that is in the design stages as we speak, the 100 lap , checkered flag seeking unit, hehe................... :cool:
UNCLE PETEY................... :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: