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VNYLGRFX
01-21-2006, 01:24 PM
What's it going to be this year on a regular Sat night car count for 2006?

Tracy87BB
01-21-2006, 02:55 PM
I don't know...there are something like 10 Blunderbust cars currently listed for sale in the classifieds...

How many of the cars will actually sell and be out there with new drivers behind the wheel? How many guys will return in their unsold cars? And how many guys (who haven't listed their cars for sale) will sit on the cars for the season without bringing them out? Will any of the old cars that certain drivers still have reappear this year?

I wonder how many of us remember when they used to let the Blunderbusts run two consis any time there were 40 or more cars (and, man, there were more than a few weeks when that happened)...boy, would I love to see car counts like that again...

VNYLGRFX
01-21-2006, 06:38 PM
I remember The thirty or forty cars on a regular Sat night...This is when you had to "fight" to get into the Feature event.... Not like last year.
I remember when I was a rookie back in "99", I only made a handful of
Feature Events.. It's a shame to see barely twenty five racecars in this division.
Who knows for the upcoming season

fisherman
01-21-2006, 06:43 PM
maybe if drivers and crews were treated with some respect you would have more cars in all classes :mad: :wave: :cool:

wayne
01-21-2006, 08:01 PM
Those Were The Good Days! My First Year Was 97, I Bought A 67 Caddy Bb From A Guy Named Dusty Rhodes In Riverhead. He Told Me $2500 Takes The Car. I Offered Him Six Hundred And With A Glass Of Straight Whiskey In His Hand, He Said, " Take It". I Only Qualified 3 Times That Year. There Were Something Like 10 To 15 Guys Going Home Every Week. Car Counts Were Way Up Back Then. There Are a lot Of People That Just Are Not Interested In Racing At Riverhead Anymore for Whatever Reasons!! I'm Going To Try My Hand At Mountain This Year. I Had Some Really Good Experiences There A Few Weeks Back, So That Did It For Me.

RacinRob
01-21-2006, 08:18 PM
I think that the low car count can be blamed for the rising costs of the division. Theres too much of a gap from the big dogs who have lots of funding and the low budget racers. I remember when the blunderbust races were capable of being won by at least 15 different drivers. I'd love the blunderbust to go back to the "entry" level status. Also people don't like to pay top dollar for their equipment, just to get wrecked by some bonehead who plows his way through the field and wrecks you.

wayne
01-21-2006, 08:22 PM
Well Said, And In My Opinion Only One Or Two Of The Many Reasons Why People Are Not Racing Or Showing Up In The Stands There.

Tracy87BB
01-21-2006, 09:03 PM
Yeah, VNYLGRFX, back in the good old days when you worried about making it through the heat race...after that, the feature was a cakewalk! Man, did the guys sweat when they had to run a consi, because if there were two consis you were one of nine or more guys going for two spots (though that was better than before they split the consis...when you were one of 19 or more guys going for four starting spots in a 10-lap consi...the consi was more of a "B" feature than a qualifying race). Heats and consis certainly were nail-biters back then. I can't tell you how shocked I was when - I think it was the second or third week of the season in 2005 - I was camping and called a friend of mine at the track to find out how things were going and I heard that there wasn't even a full Blunderbust field!

Whatever the reason, it's just a shame there are so few cars out there. It's "Silly Season" now, so the rumors are abundant, but I've heard rumblings of a few drivers who are planning to either "hang it up" (so to speak) or only run a limited schedule. It really is a shame for you guys...for a long time, I've thought that the Blunderbusts put on some of the best and most exciting shows (and, no, that's not just because I'm biased...ha ha).

Wheel Racing
01-21-2006, 09:44 PM
There were weeks when you ran your "good" tires in the heat just to make sure you qualified. You would never take a chance of not qualifying by using your older tires some weeks. Who knows, maybe the division will make a turn around this year. I, for one, am looking forward to the first green flag this year, no matter how many cars are there.

VNYLGRFX
01-21-2006, 11:01 PM
Nice to see some old faces late last year hint, hint... Wheel
and to the guy moving on.. Wayne
Good Luck, it was a pleasure running with you!!!
:cool:

Wheel Racing
01-22-2006, 08:45 AM
Nice to see some old faces late last year hint, hint... Wheel
:cool:

This year one of those old faces will become a regular face again! :wave:

rabbid1
01-22-2006, 07:28 PM
My pit chief from last year, Dennis, bought the #35 car, so we've got another new guy.

art11758
01-23-2006, 08:37 AM
As long as it stays affordable, you will have good fields. The rules introduced over the winter are not pointing in that direction, which IMO is unfortunate. Granted you will always have the few who wish to be the big fish in the small pond and have the cubic dollars to do so. Regardless I hope to see bigger fields this season as the BB's are still one of the more entertaining divisions.

CheckerWon
01-23-2006, 04:42 PM
Good to hear #16,#53, #17,#35 (new) coming back....sorry to hear#42 going to another place to race , good luck Wayne, by the way....you were a pleasure to race with....I will be racing next year for sure (picked up a new assoc. sponsor, details to follow as soon as we ink it). So to close for now #1 will be back, as of right now not sure about #27. We have a new chassis for him, but if we can't get it done, he might run a limited schedule. Anyone else coming back for sure? See you soon.....Artie P.

CheckerWon
01-23-2006, 04:53 PM
Art11758, I personally feel that if you do your homework and get a couple of sponsors and are NOT! cheating, it is affordable to race in this division and be very competitive..........I mean, if you have illegal heads or other things done to your engine, or msd boxes, brake controllers, soaking your tires, or anything that can cost a lot of extra $, then it might not be affordable. However, if you stick to the rules the best you can without breaking them, you can do it.

art11758
01-24-2006, 08:52 AM
I agree. As a hands on person, I've always felt satisfaction came from hard work and not the "magic d'jour" that needs to be bought.

wayne
01-24-2006, 06:08 PM
It Was Great Racing With You Guy's. (Or Trying To Race, Broke More Than I Raced) I Just Think I Need A Little Change. Maybe My Luck Will Change Up There. I Know My Wallet Will. Lol. I'm Still Going To Come To The Bullring For A Race Or Two.

Tower Man
01-24-2006, 07:58 PM
Four heats with 10-12 cars...remember it well.
14 car consi to take two. Now that was interesting to watch. I remember one night when a BB driver didn't qualify, so I invited him to watch from the ramp.

Both of us went home that night with a new perspective.

originalpoet
01-25-2006, 08:13 AM
I was not a driver at the time, but I remember being "invited" up to the ramp and standing shoulder to shoulder with "Tower Man", no doubt it was difficult to watch my driver, and the other 24 "hooligans" at the same time...not an easy thing.

Tracy87BB
01-25-2006, 09:55 AM
There was so much competition to just make it into the show back then, that particular driver (as I remember it) was sitting 5th in points at the time.

Hey poet, I remember a few instances (more than I care to remember, anyway) when the Skunk and/or the Shadow ran consis, because there were THAT MANY cars...if you had 3 decent weeks, you could be handicapped to start 12th in your heat race...not always an easy feat to get yourself from there into a qualified spot in 10 laps!

Back to the original topic, I guess the meeting this weekend might give everyone a better idea of what to expect as far as car counts...how many new faces, returning faces, etc.

Tower Man
01-25-2006, 08:41 PM
Ah yes, the original topic...car counts. Now I am not trying to upset anyone here, but many Blunderbust drivers forgot what the intent of the division is, (was). ENTRY LEVEL!!

It wasn't designed to be a career as some drivers have made it. Now Because of "career" Blunderbust drivers, the rules have gotten way out of control. So, for the same money that a competitive BB cost, they could run a Charger or a Figure 8.

With that being said, once the BB division went to after market this and high performance that, you took the casual racer out of the game. You took the driver who was just looking to play, out of the game. Yes I know there are Enduros, but most of us want to run every week, not just once a month.

It's tough to go backwards, but if something doesn't happen in the next year or two, the BB will be replaced by the Grand Enduros. Only my opinion, no inside scoop here, just my opinion.

CheckerWon
01-25-2006, 10:54 PM
TowerMan, I feel that they should rename our division "Street Stocks." I know I shouldn't talk, having a lot of sponsors, but it is hard asking for sponsorship for a "blunderbust." Just having those two words in the same sentence is very negative ("blunder"/"bust"). I hear that a lot of guys have trouble getting companies and or people to give them $$$ because of the name alone. By the way, I refer to my car as a "Street Stock." It works for me and it is the truth; these machines are as close to the original street stock's as any other division out there. Just my opinion....Artie P.

Rich Johnson
01-25-2006, 11:45 PM
I think both divisions have their places...Grands are on "the top" of the monthly Sunday program...Which is enough for those who just want to have fun and don't want to dedicate their life to racing.
Blunderbust is still the "least costly" of the weekly divisions at Riverhead.
People who don't mind spending a moderate amount of time and money can run "under the lights" with the bigboys.
Personally...I would like to see the weight dropped a little and other models included.
I will be running the #10 BB car this year...I will still be running the #1 in Grands...I will also be running a new #1 NEETS car.

RACINRICH

Tower Man
01-28-2006, 10:30 AM
Back in 2001, I spoke to the upper management at Riverhead and asked about changing the Blunderbust name to Heavy Stocks. After a brief silence, I was asked, "Next question?".

But Rich is right. Grands race occasionally and the BB run on Saturday nights. I don't necessarily agree with the running with the big boys. On Saturday nights everyone is a big boy. Sundays as well.

Any man or woman who straps into a machine and races is a big boy, (girl) to me. Whether they race a Nextel Cup car or a go kart.

W. J.
01-28-2006, 10:46 AM
Hmmmm...Heavy Street Stocks....has a nice ring to it, has sponsor appeal, too. It actually sounds like a race car. There is a suggestion worth considering, along with an "up and out" rule, allowing a competitor a maximum of 5 years of racing before they must move on to another division. It would keep people from investing too much in building the car, while giving them the incentive to build a decent car, so it would be 'saleable' at the end of 5 years. How's that for an idea worth considering?

Towerman, probably the reason they didn't consider the question about the name change goes back to the origin of the division & name, and who came up with it: Big Bob O'Rourke. It has sentimental value, I guess. Too bad, because (IMO) it's outlived what the division started out as.

VNYLGRFX
01-28-2006, 11:23 AM
WJ, Tower man:
The name sounds good HEAVY STOCKS. WJ as far as the 5 year up and out thing, I think that's a little silly.Today's price it take to race any divison is on the wallet of the owner and what he or she can afford, you can't put a time limit on how long you can run that division. And yes, BlunderBust started a long time ago as a beginner level racing class. But that time is over, and it has changed to a very competitive series and the best show of the night!

Just one Racer's point of veiw
Sincerely,
Dale Arnold ~CEO~ :cool:
http://www.CustomVinylGraphics.com
dale@customvinylgraphics.com

Wheel Racing
01-28-2006, 12:03 PM
Ah yes, the original topic...car counts. Now I am not trying to upset anyone here, but many Blunderbust drivers forgot what the intent of the division is, (was). ENTRY LEVEL!!

It wasn't designed to be a career as some drivers have made it. Now because of "career" Blunderbust drivers, the rules have gotten way out of control. So, for the same money that a competitive BB cost, they could run a Charger or a Figure 8.

With that being said, once the BB division went to after market this and high performance that, you took the casual racer out of the game. You took the driver who was just looking to play, out of the game. Yes I know there are Enduros, but most of us want to run every week, not just once a month.

It's tough to go backwards, but if something doesn't happen in the next year or two, the BB will be replaced by the Grand Enduros. Only my opinion, no inside scoop here, just my opinion.

Ok here it goes:
-If the track did not let the Charger OR Figure 8 cost get out of hand, then we "Career Blunderbust" drivers WOULD have a place to go
-Do you really think "for the same money a BB cost" that a "competitive" Charger could be raced?? Are you kidding me?? Can you run Charger tires 3+ weeks and still be competitive?? A Charger motor costs at least twice as much as a BB motor and HAS to be freshened every year. I ran my motor 2+ seasons, plus some cameo appearances, before deciding to freshen it for this coming season. Plus, the payoff is not much better than a Blunderbust anyway.
-As far as Fig 8, I grew up with that division, but who wants to spend all that time and money to race 1x a night for 20 laps and fight for 3rd place, when you have a chance to win in other divisions? If you want to win, you will be spending quite a bit more, right?? I know the payoff is the best, but not everybody has a desire to run the "x", and the cost is not as cheap as you portray. BB is still cheaper.
-You mention "casual racer". To me, that means that once a month racing Enduros should fill that "casual desire". There are Grand Enduro motors that have more technology and $$ invested than any BB motor out there, so why just pick on BB as moving away from Entry Level??? Like Racin Rich said, for those who wish to race weekly on a smaller budget, the Blunderbust class is a nice fit. For those who wish to race very competitively, but not every week, The Grand Enduros are a perfect fit. The traditional Enduros are a great way to gain some experience and "casually" race. I don't see a problem here.
-Aftermarket parts in some cases are cost saving. I do agree that we don't need to go any further than we already have, and I do question some parts that are now permitted, but to go backwards would be silly.
-How many guys step into higher divisions, only to fail due to lack of funds?? It is never fun being a backmarker, so why encourage people to get in over their heads (and wallets) and push them into where they are destined to fail and then maybe lose a competitor for good? Is it smart business to force a competitive team, crew, family and fan$ into a new hobby so that the "casual racer" can show up twice a season to have fun? Would the folks at that fancy Yaphank Track plan that??
-WJ you mentioned a 5 and out plan. Does this include the beloved Scott Sepe?? Why not?? You guys are complaining about the wrong thing here.The 2 cars that people complain the most about are the #00 and the #67. "Those guys are cheating, those cars are illegal, those cars are too fast". Well, as far as I know, this will be Wayne's 3rd or possibly 4th year and Tommy might only be in his 5th year. The tenure of the driver just may have less impact than the time they spend working on their cars, understanding the stock chassis and spending their $$ in the right areas. The same goes for Eugene in previous years. I challenge you to fill a field if you chase away all the drivers with 5+plus years in the division. Did you ever think that maybe the division gives us a place to race instead of disappearing altogether? $$ is the main reason I have to step aside every few years, why punish me or my fans that enjoy when I race? Just a list of drivers that would either be approaching the point of no return or even at that point: 00, 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 14, 16, 22, 42 ,43, 46, 53, 67, 69, 79, 90. Looks like we could fill a field without us, huh?
-I do agree with the name change. I have been pushing for that for years. Blunderbust is the worst name for any division anywhere. Thunder Cars, Heavy Stocks, etc would be great. Maybe some day they will give us "career drivers" a division name that we are not ashamed of. We spend as much time preparing our cars as the higher divisions, our crews should be proud of that and not embarrassed by the name. As far as I know, Barbara Cromarty named the division and NOT Big Bob. Sorry for the long rant but some people know just which of my buttons to push.

P.S. Not all drivers want to be mediocre forever. Just filling a field in a higher level division doesn't mean "competitive" racing. I like having an opportunity to win a race or two, not just be there to say "I was there", like some people I know.

W. J.
01-28-2006, 01:06 PM
Neal,
I wasn't trying to push buttons with my suggestions. If we go back to what you said about not letting Charger of Fig 8 costs get out of hand, then my 5 and out would work. I only suggested it because I have been to other tracks where entry level divisions have 2 years to move up. I believe the D.A.R.E. cars at Stafford are restricted that way, and they are only allowed to WIN 2 times per season. Is it right; would it work? I don't know, it hasn't been tried. The point is, each time a rule is changed to allow something new, more money must go into a budget, making that division cost more to run, and that forces people out, too. It's been said numerous times: money buys speed. In this case, if you've got the money to buy dominance, maybe a way needs to be found to move you along to a division more in line with the budget your team has allocated, and leave this 'entry level' division for those who are doing it with used parts, innovation and guts. I've heard before that one reason any division gets out of hand like this is because enough people request that a certain item be allowed. Track management wants to keep that majority happy, so bit by bit, in comes the more expensive stuff. After a few years of that, eventually the class suffers, runs shorter fields, sees regular, weekly guys become part time or disappear. Sound familiar yet?
Keeping cost down is one of the reasons NEETS/enduro racing is so popular. They keep the cost down, and if you talk to the regulars, they also keep the 'fun' up. That's what BB's were supposed to be, and for many, I know they still are. There will always be teams or drivers that find the magic combination to dominate, but it has seemed for a few years now that $$ =magic, not innovation. I hear you about going backwards, but how else would you fix it besides taking some of the trick stuff away?

rabbid1
01-28-2006, 05:54 PM
Lets let the drivers vote at the meeting tomorrow , Blunderbust is a horrible name for a division , Why not just piece of crap , thats just as demeaning . 5 and out would just mean out for lots of us

CIN
01-28-2006, 06:44 PM
I have read of tracks down south that have a rule - so many wins and you have to move up to the next level. Might sound good in theory, but at what level do you stop the "move up"? If we use Riverhead as an example: If say after 5 years or say 10 wins you have to move up to the next level; what happens when you get to the Modifieds? If someone has 5 years and/or 10 wins, do you then tell them that they can no longer race here and have to move to say Busch "East"?
Some people like the division they are running in. Some people might only use their own money and have very limited access to sponsors or not be the type of person that likes to ask people for sponsorship. But, they want to race. So there are divisions for them. Why penalize them for that?
Change the name of the Blunderbust division - YES. Stop the same person from winning every week; well maybe start the winner of the previous week from the rear. If he/she can make it to the front, to win the race from the rear of the field, then they deserve the win. (as long as they didn't take out the entire field to do that)
But, IMO, if someone wants to spend their entire racing career in one division so be it. This is a "hobby". At all levels it should be fun. And no one has the right to take that fun away from someone by telling them they have to move up or on.
Just my 50 cents
Cin

Tracy87BB
01-28-2006, 07:32 PM
Just so you know, Cin, they DO start the winners at the rear of the field. I'll use my car # as an example. The #87 starts 10th and wins the feature. The following week, he has to start the feature as the last handicapped car. In theory, if there was a full field and he qualified out of his heat race, then he would start 21st.
This does get a little funny at the beginning of the season, because handicapping for Opening Night is based on handicapped points for the ENTIRE previous season (but you must have run half of the prior year's races in order to be handicapped for Opening Night at all)...handicapping for week #2 is based on week #1...handicapping for week #3 is based on weeks #1 and #2 (for these three weeks, still only drivers who competed in half of the previous year's shows are handicapped and all others are treated as rookies)...then it reverts to the usual system of basing handicapping on the prior three weeks. At least that's how it's been done in the past...I don't know if there are any plans to change it this season or in the future. Last year, I believe there were only 16 or so cars that were handicapped for the first three weeks. Therefore, even though Tommy won a race, he still got to start somewhere around 16th the following week because that was the last handicapped position.
I haven't actually done my BB handicapping for Opening Night yet (I have all of the data in my computer, just haven't sat down and calculated it), but I figure there are 22 cars that are eligible to be handicapped for Opening Night in 2006. Let's say 5 of them don't show Opening Night, for whatever reason (relocated, retired, whatever)...that leaves 17 handicapped cars for the first three weeks. So, whoever wins Opening Night or week #2 will start around 17th the week after they win (they can get bumped up a little if some of the handicapped cars don't qualify out of their heats).
A driver who wins has to start as the last handicapped car for one week following the win (then, obviously, the next driver who won a feature takes that position). So, let's say the #87 has a 10th place finish and a win, and then finishes 22nd the following week. Two weeks after his win, he has 90 handicapped points, the same as if someone had finished 11th consistently all three of those weeks. With the size of the field the BB have had, those two cars could conceivably start side-by-side somewhere around 10th or 12th in the second week after the driver won. If he then finished 24th that week, the next week he would have 62 handicapped points, which could put him somewhere inside the top 10 to start. And that would be the last week that he was handicapped with that win. So, if he then finishes 20th, three weeks after his win, he would go into the next race with 24 handicapped points (possibly low enough to start in the top 5).
Also, the way I understand it, after a driver wins one feature for the season, he can not start any higher than 5th, regardless of where his handicapped points would place him (the only time that doesn't work is when the driver is supposed to start 5th and the 1st or 3rd place starter doesn't come out, because then the entire inside line would be bumped up to fill in the gap).
Whew...got that all? Ha ha...

W. J.
01-28-2006, 08:06 PM
Cin, of the few tracks that I know of that have time limits, it only applies to the cheapest, entry level division. After that, you can race whatever division you want until you are collecting Social Security to support the team! I didn't mean to start a big controversy, it was just a suggestion to address a concern I've heard from a number of driver over the last couple of years. I don't want to see the Heavy Street Stock..er, BlunderBusts division gutted of talent. It all comes back to the premise that as the BlunderBusts got more expensive to stay competitive, so did the 'higher divisons', making it more and more impossible to even consider a move up. That's the real shame here. I will be at the meetings tomorrow if anyone would like to hear the long version of my ideas, LOL.

vsmidge68
01-28-2006, 08:43 PM
Sounds to me like your trying to drive Riverhead even deeper into the ground. I agree with changing the name. Not the 5 and out rule.

fisherman
01-28-2006, 09:54 PM
riverhead had that rule back in the seventys .if you was the champ you had to move up.nowadays money is everything. also all you bb drivers should work on your cars 6days aweek and you might just beat that 00 on the track instead of on the computer. if you had officals that respect people who supported the track for alot of years the cars would be there. and tommy wouldn,t win every week. but bottom line is you have to work on the car more then just sat morning. :mad: :wave: :applause: :applause: :help: :-B :-B :drool: :drool: :lol: :lol: :lol:

BWR
01-28-2006, 10:23 PM
Time Trails For All Divisions

wayne
01-28-2006, 11:25 PM
You dont need to work on your cars 6 days a week , you just have to know how to set up a BB car ( Like langdon ) and know how to get one of those $ 8,000 dollar motors (Like scorpions) oh..... and to know that the inspectors are'nt going to set you down no matter who protests, because..............one of those inspectors uses Scorpion to do his own engine work. HHHMMM. Just my opinion. :wave:

CheckerWon
01-29-2006, 04:32 PM
As of the meeting this morning, we were told that the name of our division "Blunderbust" is going to stay. Barbara Cromarty named it and therefore that is the end of the discussion on changing it... I personally DO NOT like it at all, however if you want to race at Riverhead in this division, that is and will be the name... Like I said in a previous post, if someone asks me what do you race, I tell them it's as close to a street stock as possible... "Street Stocks" or as someone at the meeting said, say that you have a "NASCAR Stock Car" that should help you in getting more sponsors....As far as 5 and out rule, I don't agree with it... I feel whatever you are racing is what you can afford to do at the time, whether it's modifieds or karts ....if the same people are winning, try harder, they are beatable. Like someone said, you need to work on your car more than just on Sat. Hone your skills, work on the little things that don't cost a lot of $$$$ and you will get better......

Tracy87BB
01-30-2006, 06:43 AM
:( I did the handicapping for Opening Night (now that I know what changes are being made to procedure), and it's sad to say, but there are only 20 cars eligible to be handicapped for Opening Night. Of the 22 cars that actually competed in more than half of the shows, two of them weren't there for the final three weeks of the season, so they would become rookies anyway. I'm guessing that about 16 of those 20 cars will actually be on hand Opening Night. If you guys want a full field, I guess you have to do some hoping that quite a few new faces (or old ones) pop up before Opening Night. I did see a few new faces at the meeting yesterday (unfortunately, I didn't get to meet most of them). I also saw a few old faces that may or may not make a full-fledged return to the division (Neal, Ralph, Jason, Adam, Gary, Chris). I'm just wondering if there will be enough of them there regularly to fill the field, especially since there are rumors (founded or unfounded) that a few of last year's "regulars" are only running limited schedules in 2006. I sure hope so!

WEEZER
01-30-2006, 09:12 PM
Neal the wheel makes a good point about divisions getting out of hand financially. I stopped running bb due to lack of money and time to work on the car to be competitive. The grands started and that was right up my alley. Now, though, I'm in the same situation as before, I don't have the money to build a competitive motor for this Summer, so I'll probably run the stock enduros or travel to Mountain for 2 or 3 getaways this year.
And fisherman, If I could, I'd work on my car 24/7. I bleed racing, but not everybody can do that, and if you had only the people who work on their cars 6 nights a week at the track, the fields would be even smaller.

Wheel Racing
01-30-2006, 09:33 PM
Hey I need to clarify a previous post. I WAS NOT accusing the 00 and 67 of cheating. I was pointing out that tenure had less to do with their success than the actual time spent fine tuning their cars. I spoke to both Tommy and Wayne today when it was brought to my attention that some felt I was taking a shot at them, when in all actuality, I was complimenting them. The 5 and out rule hit me personally and I was trying to show how tenure meant nothing when the 2 fastest cars actually have 3 and 4 years invested respectfully. Funny thing is that both guys offered to give me a hand and Wayne even turned me onto a new idea today that I will try. I remember a few years ago when I was running good, that members of another crew would show up at our shop to spy because "we were cheating", so I know how these guys feel about constant accusations. I just hope to do a little more homework than them this year and see how it all works out. I hope those involved understand my original post now. Sorry for the confusion.

chris061
01-30-2006, 09:45 PM
I really don't think that it is the cost that is hurting the division. Most people, inluding myself, just can't take stupid things happening at the track. It is one thing to get beat at the track, but when you've lost before you left your house, because of a number of different reasons, what is the sense in racing?As stated in a previous post, if the drivers were treated with respect, there WOULD BE A HIGHER CAR COUNT. As far as the cost, you can build a car that can win on any given night for under $8000. Also, I think if the take off the nerf bars, it would save a lot of banging into each other, which would cut down on the nights needed to work on the car. That is just my opinion. Good luck to everyone!
chris busick

W. J.
01-31-2006, 09:51 AM
I guess I need top clarify something here. My suggestion of a "5 and out" was made to be a disincentive to anyone putting too much money into building a "professional" BlunderBust car. It in no way was meant to offend anyone, or upset them, but to make a foundation for thinking about how this and other divisions have gotten out of hand cost-wise. I understand pretty much the added cost of moving up a division or more, and I know not everyone can do it. Sorry if I upset anyone too much with this thought. It would be the last thing on my mind to drive any of you out of racing that way.

vsmidge68
01-31-2006, 10:22 AM
I have been reading the posts on this subject and I just have to say this......Back in the day, my husband ran BB (don't remember the years exactly, seem to have blocked them from my mind :wave:, sorry hon) We had fun. His theory always was to work on the car as much as possible and have a crew that liked it as much as he did. Then drive the car like you stole it. :help: The money wasn't really an issue because he could use the same tires practically all year. There were no "race engines" to speak of, only what you could do yourself. Possibly the last year he ran he had something special (again, I don't remember). Most of the guys in the division were friendly and there wasn't a lot of real animosity. I'm not sure when it changed, but I know we never had to worry about filling the field. There was worry about qualifying, due to there being so many cars. Now from what I see, money is a factor as well as performance engines, professional setups, etc. Then we tried the moving up game and the fun was over. $$$$$$$$$$$$ STRESS, I'm sure those of you who tried it know what I mean. I guess in my roundabout way, what I am saying is they should have just left well enough alone. This is a sport, a hobby for some, a way of life for others. But the decision should be yours, Not the tracks. Too many changes ruins things.

Tower Man
02-01-2006, 01:57 AM
Neal, calm down. Only a suggestion and I believe I have a right to my opinion. As do you as well. Instead of "attacking" W J and myself, just add your opinion.

And not for nothing, this off season I priced motors in 3 divisions for my daughter, give or take $500 difference, between a BB, Charger or a Fig 8. You see, I don't have a block, heads, carb etc...I am starting from scratch.

As to tires, well that's another story. But you can get 3 weeks out of a Figure 8 tire. But I am not here to argue, just stating my opinion, based on facts as an insider.

And as we were told at the meetings, Barbara Cromarty named the B B, so don't expect the name to change.

Wheel Racing
02-01-2006, 06:13 PM
Neal, calm down. Only a suggestion and I believe I have a right to my opinion. As do you as well. Instead of "attacking" W J and myself, just add your opinion.

And not for nothing, this off season I priced motors in 3 divisions for my daughter, give or take $500 difference, between a BB, Charger or a Fig 8. You see, I don't have a block, heads, carb etc...I am starting from scratch.

As to tires, well that's another story. But you can get 3 weeks out of a Figure 8 tire. But I am not here to argue, just stating my opinion, based on facts as an insider.

And as we were told at the meetings, Barbara Cromarty named the B B, so don't expect the name to change.

Joe I was upset and defensive. You are right about opinions, but you were incorrect about the price comparisons. You may be able to purchase a car in those divisions for similar $$, but my point was that the weekly running of the cars is not comparible. Don't you think we would love to move up in class?? The problem is the cost. You can by a bare bones Modified for less than $10,000, but can you afford to race it competitively for those costs?? The start up costs don't always reflect the real costs of racing.

The figure 8 tires may last 3 weeks, but the guys who run up front are putting 4 stickers on a night (also based on facts as an insider).

I understand the name was from Barbara Cromarty, but it never hurts to ask. Someone else started a post and I added my opinion. I market my car as a NASCAR stock car when presenting to sponsors and then explain the name after the fact.

I wasn't trying to attack you guys, but I was defending myself because I felt like I was being indirectly attacked. I have known you for years and have tremendous respect for you, but in this case we will have to agree to disagree.

As far as the original topic, I feel the economy has plenty to do with car count. When the economy is good, car count usually is up, whether the fast cars are there or not.

Gravel
02-01-2006, 07:06 PM
While I was an official there, it was brought to my attention that it was costing guys a lot of $$$ to constantly reskin and repaint their cars. 2 drivers said that nerf bars would lessen the contact between cars [and let's face it, 4000lb cars ARE going to make contact on a tight 1/4 mile track]. I brought it up to Joe Larsen and Bill Denniston, they both thought it was a good idea. The only gripe was that a couple of guys bolted them on with hex bolts instead of carriage bolts. That caused a few flats but we finally got it straight. The problem now, in my opinion, is a lack of respect of your fellow competitor. It's in the drivers' hands. Just my opinion.

Mike "Gravel" Buksa

Tower Man
02-01-2006, 07:32 PM
Thanks Neal. I have known you since you were a baby. And yes, we can agree to disagree here.

One of the problems I see is that 6 divisions didn't add new drivers, it thinned out other divisions. And yes, there are Figure 8 drivers who pit on 4 stickers per night. And yes, they run up front. Every division has that, whether you are a Modified or a Blunderbust.

I have been active in this business for the better part of four decades. I have owned cars, built cars, crewed cars and wrecked cars. I know what it costs. Even though I travel every weekend, I still own and or sponsor cars at Riverhead and I see the bills.

Now that my daughter is almost one of you, of course when she turns 16, because I wouldn't want to break any rules, I only want the best and it isn't cheap.

One day we'll talk.

chris061
02-01-2006, 07:55 PM
Hey Joe, you said you got motor prices for all divisions and they were within 500 for all the divisions? Despite what some believe, I know Scorpion will build a BB motor for around $4000, and I know Charger motors are at least double that. All his motors are fast, IF you can get the tires to the ground!
chris busick

oldschool
02-01-2006, 11:43 PM
I'm not a blunderbust guy, this is just my take on the division. Racing evolves through time. Most people are naturally competitive and want to win every week. It seems that some guys in the division are going the extra mile to get the most out of their cars and guys are crying. If you can't afford to race in a division, then maybe you shouldn't be there. Racing cost money. Towerman talks about engines being almost the same price. Who's building your engines??? A good Charger engine is about 8 G's. Blunderbust is still an entry level division, you can get a complete car for 8 grand. You don't need anything special to go racing, unless you want to run up front. For the guys who go the extra mile, that should just make the rest of you try harder and do a little homework. Its not rocket science, just hard work.

Tower Man
02-02-2006, 05:29 PM
Just to clear up a few things. My daughter's plans are to get seat time and drive off the track. We plan to do this one week at a time. We are not there to change rules, win races or show anyone up. We plan to learn and have fun.

We also plan to support our sponsors and give them some kind orf return on their sponsorship dollar.

We are not there to bust chops or intimidate anyone.

Let's have fun, because that's what we plan to do. Cost is not an issue, experience and fun is the goal.