NEXTEL Cup Future???

[RGeeProductions]

What do you think NEXTEL Cups future is going to be considering:
1. NEXTEL coming on as sponsor of the Series,
2. The new 'Playoff' scoring system,
3. More tracks being built expecting a date when there is no real room,
4. The concentration on 'Developing Young Talent',
5. NASCAR buys SPEED Channel,
6+ Anything else you may think of.

Feel free to post your thoughts below.

[spier racing 93]

RGee, don't forget about the "Car of Tomorrow" coming in 2007. And also Toyota in 2007.

[Tracy87BB]

I just saw a piece on the news about Toyota in Nextel Cup in 2007...uh oh, W.J., does that mean you're going to have to give up all of your Cup tickets?

[randomrodder]

I'd like to vote but there is not place for.....NASCAR will never be the same again.
Can't help it all, I'm Old School, i.e. pre-new age NASCAR when Winston ruled.

[W. J.]

I just saw a piece on the news about Toyota in Nextel Cup in 2007...uh oh, W.J., does that mean you're going to have to give up all of your Cup tickets?

Anybody want to purchase good seats to 2 Dover Cup races??? They ARE available, beginning with June & Sept 2007 race. Very good seats, 3 per race, face value (currently $94 ea). Otherwise, they are GONE! :mad:

Does that answer your question Tracy??

[Mortgage Guy]

I know you hate getting into this...Toyota has kept more people in Racing over the past few years than anyone and don't they employ more American workers then Ford, Dodge and Chevrolet (not sure of that). Dodge cut it's support to a championship team and driver and who picked him up Toyota, Steve Park wouldn't have a ride if it wasn't for Toyota, right? How can you not be excited with the new NASCAR? Change has been great for the competition, ratings and THE CHASE itself, makes me watch more racing. Body templates being similar for all makes has made for more of a level playing field. I loved the old NASCAR, but the new one although completely different it as just as good in it's own right.

[W. J.]

NASCAR was better at the Cup level 10-15 years ago. Common template, the Chase, restrictor plates...etc. killed innovation, the heart of racing. NASCAR has tried their best to monopolize the business, and they now collect a majority of the money spent, putting a lot of Mom & Pop vendors out of business. They signed a big deal TV deal with NBC/Fox, gave little of it to the drivers, none to the fans in stabilized ticket prices, yet wonder why they no longer 'sell out' on race day. I have their answer to that: they've sold themselves out to corporations, leaving the fans behind. The first 26 races of the season are now nothing more than exhibition/elimination races. Only the last ten count, and only for 10 teams. The other 33 are left explaning exactly why their sponsors should stay with them after the team's failure to be in the top ten. Alan Kulwicki would have loved that, don't you think??? :rolleyes:
Funny, I get a response to my reason for giving up the tickets, but no one says yet that they want them. Hmmm....which direction did we say NASCAR is going??? :mad: :lol:

[art11758]

Actually Walter, I'm thinking about purchasing your tickets. Just gotta figure out if I can do it with the other things happening right now. (house hunting again )

[Mike Fields]

If you listen to the news reports on the networks, you'd think the sky is falling in NEXTEL Cup. Actually, the sky is only falling on the NASCAR Busch Series. According to a NASCAR press release, it is Busch that's going to have Toyota.

[W. J.]

Just a reminder on those Cup tickets. I am referring to 2007 Tickets, not this year.

[RGeeProductions]

If you listen to the news reports on the networks, you'd think the sky is falling in NEXTEL Cup. Actually, the sky is only falling on the NASCAR Busch Series. According to a NASCAR press release, it is Busch that's going to have Toyota.
DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. (Jan. 23, 2006) - The National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing (NASCAR) and Toyota announced Monday the manufacturer's plans to expand its NASCAR program by competing in the NASCAR NEXTEL Cup Series and the NASCAR Busch Series starting in 2007, fielding the Toyota Camry model.

Toyota Motorsports (http://www.toyota.com/motorsports/news/nextel/2006/1-20-06.html)

Also This Page (http://www.toyota.com/motorsports/pitpass/index.html?svan=GM_PSZ_PITPASS_TXT)

And The Teams (http://www.toyota.com/motorsports/news/nextel/2006/1-24-06.html)

[Tower Man]

I seem to recall a person who had a package for Daytona in 2003 and he posted here. The post was deleted and he was e-mailed to put his ticket sale on the Jam Classified, the forum was not the place.

Have the rules changed?

[W. J.]

It is not actually an offer to sell the tickets so much as a statement of what I think of ******* selling out AMERICAN car makers. It was phrased that way for emphasis.

[Jeff T]

JMO, the entry of Toyota into the Cup series is the beginning of the end of the division. At a time when all three of "The Big 3" automakers in the USA have all announced plant closings and/or workforce cuts, you would hope that the folks in Daytona would stand true to those who brought them to where they are. Instead, the France family sells out the American automotive industry by not only allowing foreign brands competing in their premiere divisions, but by also creating this common template car and "Car of Tommorow", that look nothing like any you will find at your local car dealer. NASCAR 's top three divisions have become nothing more than "Cookie Cutter" cars competing on 1 1/2 mile Tri-Oval "Cookie Cutter" tracks. NASCAR has micro-managed the sport to the point where ingenuity and creativity to gain a competitive advantage no longer exists. I honestly believe that every Sunday, the 43 drivers starting the race are not the best 43 drivers competing in the event. So much has emphasis has been put on marketability, that there are some ultra-talented drivers sitting on the sidelines because they don't fit the corporate mold. I hope that I do not sound prejudiced on this next point, but once they start moving the drivers up into NASCAR's big 3 from their "Diversity" program, there will be yet more talented drivers left out in the cold because they once again don't fit into NASCAR's mold. I am a firm believer that the "Best" person for the job should get the job, no matter what their cultural background, gender, or race are. Politically correct can often implode right on top of you. Given the status of NASCAR's decisions these in recent times, I can foresee this coming.
I know I got off the subject somewhat, but as for today's announcement of Toyota joining the Busch and Cup series, the impact in the coming year will be interesting to see. I am wondering how many of the US auto workers who are losing their livelyhood will have to chose between eating or paying for Cup tickets to watch these Japanese cars compete in the "Great American Race".

[W. J.]

To Jeff T: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: (JMO)

[debbie33]

I guess thats a hint I should move my post?

[allhailunc]

To me the inclusion of Toyota, while being a possible economic boost, is a slap in the face to the Great "American" race. I just hope that when & if this happens, and it will, that Mr Excitement qualifies. You know his viewpoint. :mad:

[Jones44]

To respond to something MortgageGuy said earlier, when Steve Park signed with a Toyota team, he lost this fan. Same for Ted Musgrave. I'll find it hard to cheer for Michael Waltrip this year knowing that he'll only be in a Dodge for 2006. I'll still go to the races though. If nothing else, this will give me someone else to boo besides Jeff Gordon and Kirk Shelmerdine LOL! Where's Jimmy Spencer and Ward Burton when you need them? :lol:

[LongIslandJam]

I guess I'm in the huge minority, but that doesn't bother me. I applaud Toyota coming into Nextel Cup as now Nextel Cup is better representative of the its audience. I'm not a Toyota fan, but I welcome any competition.

However, Jeff you make an excellent point. With common templates, innovation has been lost. With the focus on youth and marketability, superb drivers have been lost (I remember the days with races without cautions, do you?). Two key ingredients which have gone by the wayside in favor of "image" and "fairness."

The schedule is way too long and that's the root of all the big expenses. Unfortunately the $$ rules.

And Jeff, the diversity program I think will in the short-run leave out some quality drivers (I agree with you on that). However, it is needed as many great drivers whom are minorities never get through the gates. In some necks of the woods (even today), minorities are not welcome and certainly not cheered for. Maybe not so much at Riverhead, but at other tracks around the country. It's a shame, but hopefully once a lot more diverse group of racers start coming through, with a good role model at the top level, we will not need any diversity program and then we can return to normal process and a process which includes quality racers from varying backgrounds.

[Jeff T]

I understand where you are coming from about the diversity issue, but I still feel that it should be the best person for the job gets the job. Filling a seat in a race car should not become a "race" issue (or gender issue, for that matter). I for one, am a huge fan of Sarah Fischer. I would love to see her in a cup car racing for the lead, but quite honestly, she didn't set the world on fire racing for the RCR affiliated Winston West team in 2006. She was in one of the top rated teams on the west coast, yet....nothing to speak of. This team was a winning combination with Austin Cameron, yet he was released at the end of 2005 in favor of Sarah. This is where I feel the "Diversity" program is wrong. I understand what you are saying about those backwoods places that still live their lives in the 1950's, but this is the point I was trying to make. It should be about being the best at what you do to get the job, not being a number to be plugged into a politically correct formula.
By the way, I'm also a huge Erin Crocker fan. So does this qualify me as being a diverse fan? (LoL) (P.S.-She's a super nice person. I met her when she was running the WoO. Hope she gets a win this year in the trucks!)

[gary243]

I just don't know why this is such an issue. NASCAR has a recent and past history of having foreign car makes in the series, from Jaguar in the 50s to DaimlerChrysler in the past few years. The only difference I know is that those companies were owned by white people.

In Midget, Legends Cars, TQ, and Micro Sprint racing foreign-made engines have dominated on and off for decades. We’re talking cars that have raced right at your home track.

We live in an open free market where American companies make and sell products overseas and where foreign companies make and sell products in the US. Welcome to 2006.

[LongIslandJam]

Amen Gary!

*bows to the videographer master*

[W. J.]

Ahem...if I may, Gary, why do you suppose we have Billion Dollar deficits with these countries if your 'nirvana like' statement is true? What do they buy from us? Answer, very little. We, on the other hand, with the encouragement of very rich corporate CEO's, but lots from them because they pay their employees little, while the fat cats reap the big profits. The average American consumer has yet to pick up on this, because they are usually exclaiming, "Wow, look how low the price is on this!" and never bothering to read where it was made or who made it, or even consider the consequences of owing their a$$e$ to a foreign country down the road. But ask the average American what the problem is with Social Security (as an example) and they think they know all the answers. A world economy would be nice, if all the players were on a level playing field; they are not. Foreign auto makers don't even pay comparable wages AND benefits to their workers here in the US. Most of their current employees are from previous downsizings in the industry, caused by uninformed consumers who bought into "OOH, It's imported!!!", so therefore it must be special. Later on, they wondered, like so many others, why they'd lost their good jobs and were now working for much lower wages in Walmart.

[gary243]

Walter, you don't like the world economy we live in and I can understand that. There are pros and cons, but ultimately it’s for the best.

We couldn't communicate on this forum if it were not for the minds from across the planet and the parts and pieces they make there. The software, chips, boards, and processors were not built entirely by Bob in Long Island or Sam in Detroit.

The same goes for the camera and equipment I use to produce my videos, and the players and televisions you guys use to view them.

The only significant country I can think of in the world that is a complete isolationist is North Korea, and I think their system kind of stinks.

[W. J.]

Walter, you don't like the world economy we live in and I can understand that. There are pros and cons, but ultimately it’s for the best. The cons outweigh the pros. Most goods are now manufactured by countries that wanted to destroy us 60 years ago. They've found it's easier to sell to us than to bomb us. We worry about Al Qaeda, but if we don't watch out, they will be the least of our worries.


We couldn't communicate on this forum if it were not for the minds from across the planet and the parts and pieces they make there. The software, chips, boards, and processors were not built entirely by Bob in Long Island or Sam in Detroit.

The same goes for the camera and equipment I use to produce my videos, and the players and televisions you guys use to view them.

I agree, Gary, but what used to be made here has been hijacked. Most of the exact eqpt. you refer to is a copy made of something originally made in the USA. Now it's just made by a lower earning person elsewhere on the planet. And no, I don't envy N. Korea anything either.

[Rich Mergl]

HASN`T BEEN THE SAME SINCE HE LEFT US.
In an interview on nascar today he said (JR) that he will drive the #3 after he takes care of business.

[Jeff T]

Gary, I came from a manufacturing background where I worked for 15 years. I started with no experience and worked my way up to a Manufacturing Lead. The division I was in charge of was Digital Television Uplink manufacturing. We designed the product, we built the first one and were the first company to sell them. In 3 years, we were out of business because of NAFTA and competition from the Asian manufacturing groups. We could not produce the product here for as much as they were selling them for. After 15 years in the manufacturing business, I was out and unable to find a job. I was classified by the State of New York as a "Displaced Worker". At the age of 40, I had to be retrained and find a new line of work. Why am I giving you this history? Because the same American companies that we were partnered with now bought the same type of product that we developed in this country from foreign manufacturers because they made the same type of product with slave labor. The company I worked for once had 700 employees. When I left, I was one of the last 7 in the company. There used to be pride about buying American. I remember my uncle would never buy anything that wasn't made in the USA. Unfortunately, as WJ said very well, all of that technology has been hijacked and shipped off shore to be built for by less than minimum wage employees. To you, it may not seem to be a big deal to let Toyota come into the NASCAR ranks. To me, it is. It represents that we no longer support the American automotive worker. There is already talk of letting Honda and Nissan into the Craftsman Truck series in 2008. Having been a follower of the IRL and CART series for many years, once they came in to those series (particularly Honda), they put all others out -an example, the Indy Car series (formerly CART) has only one engine manufacturer for the entire series, that being Honda. The IRL started with Oldsmobile and Infiniti engines. Now they have Toyota, Honda, and very few, if any, Chevrolet engines (I believe Chevy pulled out at the end of 2005). You know once that once Honda and Toyota come into the fold, the Detroit "Big 3" will eventually drop out. I still feel that the entry of Toyota into the NASCAR Cup and Busch series will be the beginning of the end for NASCAR's rise in popularity.

[gary243]

Well we just disagree. I have a whole basement here of Sony computers and electronic equipment and would feel like a complete pinhead to tell Toyota sorry, don’t stick yer headlight decals on my driver’s car (which is about the extent of manufacture creativity NASCAR allows for these days) because I want my racing to be free of furriners.

I also think the vast majority of the problems at GM and Ford has come as a result of producing terrible automobiles. On the whole, the Big Three have produced contraptions that nobody wants to buy. Having nothing to do with cost, they are practically giving the cars away these days. From styling, performance, fuel economy, and reliability they have not been putting out cars that people are proud to own. And slashing prices while moving the plants down to Mexico and outsourcing work to China, has not, and will not, solve those issues.

I enjoyed a great indoor racing show this week with over ninety TQ Midget and 600cc Micro Sprints where 90% of the field was powered by either a Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, or Yamaha engine. I didn’t mind, and I don’t think anybody in the crowd cared either. I see no reason why NASCAR has to be the great savior of American isolationism.

[LongIslandJam]

While you made great points Jeff & Gary,

Here's an interesting article:
http://money.cnn.com/2002/06/18/pf/autos/americancars_whatis/

I have to agree with Gary though. American car companies have failed to keep up with the times. They are slow sluggish giants who failed to innovate. We all saw an impending problem with energy. While foreign manufacturers had a plan with hybrids, hydrogen fuel cars, more gas efficient cars; the American manufacturers had a plan too. To sell more gas guzzling SUVs and market it to the extreme, as SUVs were the last quality product an American company had. Does that make sense when you know eventually gasoline prices will increase?

GM's cars are for the most part still the relics from the 1980's that failed to grow up. Ford was a little better on the innovation, except their cars are relics from the 1990's.

Chrysler is now foreign owned, and they constantly innovate, but they seem to be in mild financial woes too.

As for our workers being shipped across the world, it is because us as Americans demand a high quality of life. We want the good life and will do anything for it at any cost. We want cheap products at high quality. To get cheap products we need cheap labor, which is nonexistent in America as Americans want a high standard of living. So using the economies of scale to our advantage we ship labor out, where we pay what seems slave labor wages to us, but are top dollar in their respective country.

The biggest question is: do we want a higher standard of living or do we want to support each other fellow American at a lower standard. I think its the higher standard of living.

So, tying this back in. I'm all for a company that provides jobs in America, and while the profits go overseas, at least we get to share in that with good jobs.

[W. J.]

Yes, Gary, we will continue to agree to disagree. I will continue to believe, and this goes beyond just cars, that at least trying to stick with my fellow Americans (and taxpaying brothers & sisters) to help them keep their jobs. People blame the workers for the quality, and some of it is true, but if management gives you a crappy design or materials to work with, that's all you've got. This isn't about isolationism, it's about fairness between economies. All the politicians crowed about how NAFTA was going to help America, but they forgot to mention it would benefit CEO's more than working people.
As to the CNN/Money article, I hope everyone reads and understands the whole thing. Honda and Toyota employ less people than Ford is talking about putting out of work. As far as saying Detroit is irresponsible for producing gas guzzling SUV's, are there no German and Japanese equivalents??? Look around you, they outnumber US made products. Nissan had a commercial recently (pre-Katrina) touting the fact that they had a bigger variety of SUV's to choose from than anyone else. It's the stupid consumer buying them that drives the market. The manufacturer's, U.S. and Foreign, only make what people will buy.
I can say this: I've never owned anything but an American brand name vehicle, and I don't really see any big problem with the quality of what I've driven around in since 1966 through today compared to friends who've not always owned one or the other. Foreign vehicles, if anything, are overpriced for what they supposedly cost to make.

[pitbull113]

I think we're getting off topic here. IMO nascar sucks! I agree with Rich Mergl nascar has not been the same since Dale Sr. left us. But also the nascar money machine has gone hollywood and it's hard to relate to 19yr old pampered pretty boys making millions and the likes of Brittney Spears singing the national anthem. Bring me the days of the good ol' boys beatin' and bangin' on the track and then fightin', cussin' and then kickin' back with a beer afterwards.They lost me when Jr. got docked points for using the S-word on tv (and i'm not even a fan of his).Politically correctness and family values have helped ruin the sport....or should I say "show".

[gary243]

People blame the workers for the quality, and some of it is true, but if management gives you a crappy design or materials to work with, that's all you've got. This isn't about isolationism, it's about fairness between economies.I'm not going to add much more because I will just be repeating what I said and going around in circles.

First, let me make it perfectly clear that I don't blame the auto workers at all for the bad cars. That goes to the executives who dreamed up these contraptions, and I assume most of them still have their jobs and are still designing this junk.

And on the SUV front, at least for Ford, this was a clearly their best product that I don't think any foreign manufacture could match, and the sales certainly indicated that. But unfortunately, this was pretty much their only vehicle of desire and when the fuel prices rose (like any child could have predicted) the interest in that type of car dropped like a rock.

Toyota on the other hand simply put out a better fleet of diverse cars that people actually want to buy. This wasn't a domestic vs. international thing, it was just good business vs. bad business.

[pitbull113]

Okay glad to see we're back on topic!

[Jeff T]

WJ, Thank you for saying it so well. No one will always agree on everything, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. You and I may agree on subject matter while JA and Gary disagree with what we believe. That's okay, everyone has that right. It' s part of the American way. (Freedom of Speech thing, you know). I personally have always owned American built vehicles. Besides, GM has provided my father a very nice living for the past 50 years. I believe in "Support those who support you". That was my original gripe with NASCAR because I believe that they are not standing by that philosophy. I feel that once again, they have sold out to the highest bidder. 'Nuff said on this subject. Starting to feel like I'm making dog food by beating this dead horse so much....

[W. J.]

You know, Pitbull, I couldn't agree more. It's getting just like IRL and Cart. Talent takes a back seat to being the "IMAGE" that the sponsor (and stupidly, NASCAR) wants. It's important to have sponsors, don't get me wrong. But 15 years ago, the sponsor took on a talented driver, warts and all. Today (mostly), it's a chiseled jaw line, well spoken, tall and lean, single and eligible (they hope), very little back story, experience limited to some hometown track, and seldom get their hands dirty actually working on a car so they understand why it does what it does. The payback for all this is that they will be gone by age 30, to be replaced by another pretty face, and so it goes. True, Tony Stewart, Carl Long, and Kurt and Kyle Busch are exceptions, but look at the rest and you'll see what I mean. They're all nice people, and I don't hold against them what got them their jobs, but there isn't a Dale Sr, or Bobby Allison, or Richard Petty or Cale Yarbrough among them, and that's a shame.