Food

[MOTORHEAD]

Have it from a good source that when you go to Riverhead you will not be able to bring food or drink into general admission, so if you go to watch the racing have a really big lunch before you get there because I don't think they are going to drop the prices at the concession stands.
The end of Riverhead Raceway is near!!

[pitbull113]

One more way RR is making it harder to bring your family to the track.No wonder the attendance is worse every year. What next charging to use those nasty bathrooms?

[LongIslandJam]

#1) I will find out for you guys about the food policy and I'll nip the issue in the bud.

#2) Not being allowed to bring your own food into a sports facility is NOT uncommon. Such places as Nassau Coliseum for example prohibit this in their rules.

I'll look into this for you before you over-react.

[allhailunc]

Well, if that be the case, then the attendance will be even less than it is. Not being able to bring in your own food puts a family that has just enough to cover the entry prices in quite a bind. The food vendors will still have the customers coming up to eat, but banning food entry for those that can't afford to also pay for food at the track (it sure ain't cheap) is not good business policy. Hopefully, someone can get a clearer understanding of this otherwise, I'd have to agree with a prior post about the end-overpricing kills any kind of venue. :disgusted

[W. J.]

Don't worry too much until we get a better confirmation of this RUMOR!

This is why we don't like it when someone starts a RUMOR. It tends to make people panic, and sends the wrong message to some, which if they don't follow up on it, remains in their mind as the truth.

[xroundguy]

On the back page of the official 2006 Riverhead Raceway fold out schedule it states "No food or beverage may be brought into race track". Hopefully this was put there to discourage people from bringing in food, and it will not be strictly enforced.

[pitbull113]

Look at it this way W.J. if we didn't have rumors to ***** about during the off season the only thing posted here would be happy birthdays.... Boring! :D I don't think panic has set it yet.

[W. J.]

Okay, okay... :lol:

[art11758]

There is quite a bit about this over on MSS. http://mssforum.chubbychica.com/index.php?showtopic=2026
The rule has never been strictly enforced as it would, as has already been noted, hurt quite a few of us. It's just like that post 9/11 cooler policy, probably some sort of insurance issue.(IMHO) I will continue to bring stuff until they stop me personally. Yep, I'm a rebel.

[hollywoodmic]

What would be so terrible if you got there a little earlier, had some lunch in a tailgate type style......with the same food you were bringing to begin with. Then during the intermission (we all complain about) go out and get some more, if they let you leave. Oh wait at the end of the night you can go in the pits and damn near eat like a king for free. You guys bi*ch about the simplest things sometimes...............wait until we have no track then you'll have nothing to bit*h about. For once you guys should become a business owner who makes $$$$ off the food they sell. For years they've let you use the racetrack as a "bring your own food" facility. Anyone ever call them or write them to say THANK YOU?? I didn't think so. As I say, keep bi*chin and let some developer turn this place into a strip mall. Then you'll have nothing to bi*ch about. JMHO

[debbie33]

I agree with HollywoodMic but they don't let you leave anymore and re enter. Once you leave that is it.

[DriveitinDeep]

Deb,
as long as you can bring in those Jello shots, who cares?

[hollywoodmic]

Driveitin you think she'll bring them on opening night??? Deb thanks for the info on not letting you re-enter, I always sign in at the back gate so I did not know that.

[unowho243]

I leave in and out of the track all the time, and they don't bother me, but then again, my family is good friends with the people at the gate. I always make sure to bring them food, lol, sort of a bribe deal. :lol:

[W. J.]

I think we need to address the problem from this point. There is little variety of food to choose from, and only one brand of beer, or soda. I have never like Miller, so I don't buy any. But you can't spend your life eating burgers, and hot dogs are even worse nutritionally, especially to people who are on a restricted diet. What is passed off as pizza is a joke. I know it's not easy planning food concessions, but it's been done with a better variety available almost every place else I've been. Letting someone enter with a sandwich and their choice of non-alcoholic drink is not the end of the world. :)

[LongIslandJam]

In regard to drinks, its often customary for most sports venues to have a deal with a particular distributor. For Riverhead its Boening and the brand they carry - Miller, and I believe the soda is Coca-Cola. Heck, even in college we only had Pepsi products (and yes, I didn't like it).

And because of this deal, the track gets funding from Boening for sponsorship that goes into purses and such (Like the Miller 200).

Just an FYI...

[RacinRob]

perhaps vending similar to stafford? the enclosed trailers with a great variety of food?

[pitbull113]

I am so tired of the BS excuse "It's the only track on the Island, be happy we have one" for the way RR treats its customers and competitors. If people didn't complain about things, nothing would ever get fixed. Maybe if it didn't cost a family of four $100 for the night, the stands wouldn't be half empty. The admission is too high, the food sucks, and the bathrooms are disgusting. Maybe if somebody threw some money at that place and advertised a little, the stands would be full. I have met so many Nascar fans that didn't even know there was a racetrack on the Island. If King Quality can afford those stupid commercials on cable, so can the track.

[RacinRob]

100 dollars for a family of four is VERY reasonable. Compare to a Mets or Yankees game. How bout a Knicks game? Let's not cry because you won't appreciate what you had until it's gone.

[RGeeProductions]

There is also NO TRACK, any where I know of, that runs the number of divisions in a single night than Riverhead.

[pitbull113]

No 1 you can't compare RR to Yankee stadium or the garden. No 2 RR runs 6 divisions, Thompson runs 6, Waterford 5, Wall 5 or 6, Mt. speedway 5, Mahoning 6 and down here in redneck land Orlando runs 7 and New Smyrna runs 7. What tracks were you thinking of RGee?

[allhailunc]

It's easy to say tailgate & go out during intermission-those of us that have pit passes have that option. What about the poor slobs that come in as fans?Do they? I think not. To "possibly" (notice I say possibly") not allow outside food/beverages is "wrong-dead wrong". I could just see a place like Dover or Daytona, which I highly enjoy each and every year, telling us sorry, you've gotta buy our stuff-yeah, right. The selection is very limited, and sometimes deadly :lol: , so what's the big friggin deal to allow food (the concessions will still make their $$$)/drinks (soda-juice-etc). Even many of the smaller tracks I've been to allow such-as long as you allow them to inspect. To limit one to that which is the only thing available is not good, for both the consumer and/or the venue. They tell me I can't bring in my sandwich and my plastic bottles of diet soda and I'm sure I can find other entertainment on a Saturday night. :mad:


Oh, does this also mean that the track crew (which works their asses of each and every week) can't have their "outside" pizza? Think about that one. :(

[art11758]

What would be so terrible if you got there a little earlier, had some lunch in a tailgate type style......with the same food you were bringing to begin with. Then during the intermission (we all complain about) go out and get some more, if they let you leave. Oh wait at the end of the night you can go in the pits and damn near eat like a king for free. You guys bi*ch about the simplest things sometimes...............wait until we have no track then you'll have nothing to bit*h about. For once you guys should become a business owner who makes $$$$ off the food they sell. For years they've let you use the racetrack as a "bring your own food" facility. Anyone ever call them or write them to say THANK YOU?? I didn't think so. As I say, keep bi*chin and let some developer turn this place into a strip mall. Then you'll have nothing to bi*ch about. JMHO
Whoa! For me it's just economics. I do buy some stuff, sodas and what not. I come with a group of four people (one of whom is a 13 year old eating machine), so it softens the hit on the wallet to bring sandwiches and juice. And I do get there early. I like heat races.
I actually, after reading another promoters posts, got a different idea about all of this. It may be alcohol related. Check the link I posted and read what Larry Mattingly from Jennerstown wrote.

[DriveitinDeep]

Hollywood, Hope so. If Debbie does bring them, they'll definitely stay cold opening night

[hollywoodmic]

Larry, do you have lunch at your office during the day??? The track crew is WORKING, not watching, don't compare the common fan to a race track worker, it's just not fair. As I stated in my earlier response to Debbie, and I don't know if you read it, I didn't know that they no longer let you in and out. Larry, for years you have supported Riverhead, one of it's loyallest and greatest fans. Now you may seek new Saturday entertainment over a sandwich??? I hope not. As I've said in a roundabout way in other posts, this place isn't South Haven Park, you can't come BBQ here. It is a business, if the promoters need to make more money to cover the rising insurance costs, because of the drunken jackasses that fall out of the stands and then sue them, than so be it. They can have my $10.00 for concessions if it keeps racing going on L.I. Also, to reiterate a post I've made before, rent out the concession stands to people like McDonalds, Pizza Hut; let them supply us with food and the promoters just collect the rent and have no overhead. They did that at Sandusky a few years back; the consession stands were always full. Again, JMO.

[allhailunc]

Well I just got a clarification from The head people and it's, "No food or drink" whatsoever, period. Bearing this in mind, I just want people here and competitors at the track know that it's been a fun ride and yes-I will over a sandwich-it's the principle of the matter. Why buy food that, in many cases, is barely palatable, when I can be enjoying a ham & cheese or whatever I fancy. This has never been enforced before and I can understand where the management is going on this policy, but it's their track and their ballgame, so they make the rules. I will miss everyone that I've come to like (even you Hollywood :) ) at the track, but to be forced into buying food, like I said that is barely palatable, is not in my frame of mind. I will miss the kids jumping all over Mighty Mike when he comes around and we hand out stuff, I will miss the weekly flags for the kids raffles, most of all I will miss all the great freinds we have made over the past 20 or so years, but this is one where my heart says go, but my mind says stay home. I'll miss you all. :(

[The Bullfather]

Yeah read the headline!!! Instead of trying to get new fans through the gate, screw over half the people that attend your weekly racing!!! People that support the track, as many fans and drivers have left for reasons of their own, now you give them reason to leave and not come back! Now I'll watch racing with even less people around us for non circus act nights! I'm disappointed, because everyone around brings their own lunches and/or dinners.

[allhailunc]

Hollywood-you made anexcellent point about drunken a holes falling out of the stands, but where do they get that drunk from? I'll tell you-the friggin beer stand in turn1. Larry & I had an incident with 4 drunken retards sitting behind us last :mad: year that kept coming back with 4 beers each & every time they went up. I break up at least 3-4 fights each year because the beer selling is not truly policed. Is this a reason clamp down on the poor dumb ******* like myself who wants to sit there with a ham & cheese sandwich and a plastic bottle of diet pop (notice I said plastic, for the back of the schedule says no cans or "glass" containers" allowed) and enjoy something that he truly likes? No it isn't to me!!! I don't care if they want to look into the back/proper size cooler bag that I bring in each week, but to tell me and all the great race fans that come out and on many an ocassion brave real chitty weather, to support the guys, that we can't bring our own food is wrong-the concessions will still have their gang coming up and buying whatever it is they call food. :lol:

[hollywoodmic]

Unc, unfortunately this is all about principle for you, that is your opinion and I will not argue that. There are some people out there that couldn't even afford the ham sandwich you are bringing in after paying for admission. They still go to see what they love and that's racing.......as do you. So if you are going to stay home out of principle, that is your choice. As for the people drinking, they could be a little more responsible as well, no?? If a person gets hammered and falls down like a jackass, call a cop, file a report.......oh no you can't because they would cite you as the negligent party, and you couldn't sue the track. So people wait and then file a lawsuit. It's just sad what it has all come to, you can blame people like this for your raised cost of insurance in NY. Unc, I promise I'll stop and say Hi at the track this year when I see you. I do think I will see you. Although you're point has been made and does have merit, I'll see you at the races. I'll see you, too, Bullfather, less a sandwich.

Steve Halpin

[RGeeProductions]

No 1 you can't compare RR to Yankee stadium or the garden. No 2 RR runs 6 divisions, Thompson runs 6, Waterford 5, Wall 5 or 6, Mt. speedway 5, Mahoning 6 and down here in redneck land Orlando runs 7 and New Smyrna runs 7. What tracks were you thinking of RGee?
Thompson - 6 -they just added TIS mods, so was 5
Waterford - 4 Regular Divisions + 1 non regular
Wall - 6
Mountain - 5 +1 non regular
MVS - 6

On the other hand
Monadock 4 + 1 non regular
Oswego 3 + a possible touring event/special event
Jennerstown 4 + possible special event

My point was only that Riverhead being the only EASY track for Long Islanders to get to and race is still a bargain with 5 to 6 features + an occasional show features [enduro/train race/demo]EVERY Saturday night. Being there are NO OTHER TRACKS on Long Island. Tough crowd....LOL

[Rich Mergl]

I am on a low Cholesterol Diet. Let me see, what will I have to eat at the track? (French Fries, Burger, Pizza, Hotdog, HUUMMMM). What if you are Diabetic? ( Cotton Candy, HUUMMMM ). Decisions, Decisions? Can we bring a Doctors Note? The Track has so much to offer that is dangerous to your Health.

[RGeeProductions]

I am on a low Cholesterol Diet. Let me see,what will I have to eat at the track? (French Fries, Burger,Pizza,Hotdog, HUUMMMM). What if you are Diabetic?( Cotton Candy, HUUMMMM ). Decisions Decisions?Can we bring a Doctors Note? The Track has so much to offer that is dangerous to your Health.
You have an very good point here, mmmmmmmm. Maybe they are adding boca burgers with low fat cheese and soy bean fries.....Oh, and REAL fruit juice drinks with 5% real fruit...

[Invisible1]

I am on a low Cholesterol Diet. Let me see,what will I have to eat at the track? (French Fries, Burger,Pizza,Hotdog, HUUMMMM). What if you are Diabetic?( Cotton Candy, HUUMMMM ). Decisions Decisions?Can we bring a Doctors Note? The Track has so much to offer that is dangerous to your Health.
I'm with you. many people are on low sodium diets, low or no sugar diets, no FAT diets (there goes the :mad: 'menu' :mad: ). I agree with those who say, "When i see the promoter and his wife eating there, I'll believe it is good food, and a good value for the money." It wouldn't be so bad if the 'food' were reasonably priced for those who can eat it, but it's way over priced for the level it's at.
As far as the track crew getting their pizza from outside, is the track pizza that bad!??? If so, why should any of us have to eat it? :drool:
This is just bad policy, another nail in the coffin for our only race track. Oh well, maybe there will be some good movies on HBO this Summer on Saturday nights. :mad:

[LongIslandJam]

I think you guys are blowing this way out of proportion.

I liken local racing to Minor League Baseball. At least all successful track should follow this methodology (in my opinion).

The following places food policy:

Long Island Ducks:
"Citibank Park rules prohibit outside food or beverages to be brought into the park. The concession stands sell a wide variety of foods to satisfy most tastes."

Brooklyn Cyclones:
"No outside food or beverages are allowed inside the ballpark."

Both are very successful venues, both have these rules.

Yes, I do believe this policy relates to their insurance policy. Track's insurance policies have skyrocketed over recent years, and businesses in general have escalating insurance policies (such things as having a 3-story building requires you now to take out anti-terrorism insurance, silly things like that).

Does it suck? Oh yes, indeed! I can't say anything good about it. However, these days and ages dictate it.

For diabetics, its difficult. Healthy food isn't available at many venues, even high-class places. Please show me a track that sells salad or fruit. I would like to see that. It would be a good thing to see, but I'm very curious how it would sell...

[Rich Mergl]

First of all. Riverhead from heat races to the end can last 7 HRS. Your average ball game is about 3HRS.
Riverhead should be likened to a Nascar track, not a ballfield. What ever you can fit in the allowed size cooler, as long as it isn't glass, is O.K. I agree with the alcohol at Riverhead, and I have been known to have a few beers.
I'm going to Stafford Springs Via HAMPTON JITNEY on April 30th, and I'll let you know what I see as their policy.

[The Bullfather]

I totally agree about time, I spend many hours at the track. I went to the hospital 2 years ago because of a bad sinus inffection and dehydration. I need to keep plenty of fluids in me sitting out under the hot sun. During the Summer, it gets hotter with the crowds and the humidity from the air, crowds and metal stands. This really makes me mad because I need to keep hydrated.

Police the stupid beer stand and stand full of fans in general. The drunks don't get drunk on their own supply. They get it from the beer stand, you have young people working there and I'll tell you, they're not going to be responsible! Make a quick buck, get some extra cash in the tip jar, go and party the night away!

[Tracy87BB]

I need someone to help me with the math here. I'm being totally serious. Let's say I have a family of four, two of whom are teenagers who are considered as adults for ticket sales. Let's say, for argument's sake, we're hardcore race fans who come at 3 so we can watch the heat races and/or time trials. In July, when it can be upwards of 100 degrees baking in the sun, I'm figuring each person will go through at least 4 drinks (to prevent dehydration and passing out in the stands). Figuring we filled up on a decent lunch before going out to the track for a long 6-7 hour day, we'll need at least three burgers, one hot dog, one order of chicken nuggets and four orders of fries. I'm not familiar with the concession pricing...I'm really just looking to see what it would realistically cost me.

4 adult admissions
16 sodas
3 burgers
1 hot dog
1 chicken nugget
4 fries

Grand total? Does anyone have a rough idea? I'm figuring it's somewhere in the area of $190. I'm just not sure how many families of four I could see parting with $760 a month to go to the races ($160 x 4 weeks). It should be interesting to see what, if any, effect it has on attendance if the policy is actually enforced.

[W. J.]

4 adult admissions @ $22.00 and up
16 sodas @ $3.00 ea
3 burgers @$3.50 ea
1 hot dog @ $3.00 ea
1 chicken nugget @ $3.00 (?) ea
4 fries @ @ $2.50 (?) ea


Grand Total $162.50 (minimum)

Next Question???

[W. J.]

I'd like to add one thing about all these posts that bothers me a bit. We've seen many comparisons to ballparks. Which driver at Riverhead has made $350,000 or more per season? I'm guessing the answer is no one, so how can we compare a Saturday night race track to baseball or any other "pr :confused: fessi :confused: nal" sport venue???

[LongIslandJam]

WJ,

I am comparing with minor league baseball

Average Single A/Indepedent player earns only $1,100-$2,500 per month. This is far from the millionaires in MLB.

In this day and age of dwindling attendance at local short tracks, why does minor league baseball continue to prosper? The answer to that lies the answer to local short track racing's attendance woes...

[btgoss]

We should compare Riverhead to another racetrack... and I pick Beech Ridge Speedway...
Never been there, so this is only from what I have read and seen in magazines and the web... so take this with a grain of salt.... however this is the way I would go with Riverhead.

Beech Ridge appears to be very clean, with excellent grandstands...so I would make a guess that it beats Riverhead with facilities.... someone who has been there can comment.
Food...well I haven't heard anything bad...
They run 4 divisions regularly, and the average admission is $10....
The cost of a movie....
So that is what I think Riverhead should do. Clean the place up, get everything paved and landscaped, like Tangers. Get the grandstands in order and the bathrooms. Drop the admission to $10 and get a real food concession in there, maybe open it up to a local company or group. Give that back to the community. Riverhead has a strong polish heritage, give the track that flavor, and let the a local civic group run the food for a cut. Everyone wins.
Now for the racing.
4 divisions.
Modifieds... running with SK rules... most of the local guys skip the Tour race anyway...so no loss there...
Late Models.... actually the chargers.. the other Late Models are over...
Bombers/Pure Stock cars... run IMCA street stock rules, or Grand Enduro rules.. te blunderbusts can be grandfathered in...as can some older charger cars... taxi cab stock with safety equipment is the rule....
Figure Eights and Trucks alternate... neither is terribly strong, but the Figure Eights are history and can be a draw...
Features go 36 (Bring back the extra lap for Charlie Jarzombek, I am embarassed they have stopped doing that....) for the Modifieds
20 For the Late Models
15 For the Bombers
and 15 for the 8.
Start the show at 7 and we are out by 10-10:30..with a 30 minute admission. Run the modified feature first, then late models, bombers, and end the night with the figure eights. Swap the Bombers and Trucks on the night the trucks run.... and on night with a "special" like midgets or maybe the supers, then the late models get night off, and come back for a double point extra distance race the next week....
So there you go.... one last thing... we as fans have to volunteer in some way to help the track clean itself up and become a good neighbor... I know we all don't like the idea of giving the people ar Riverhead our time as well as our money.. but I think we need to start thinking of Riverhead as almost a natural resource.. and we need to protect it... no matter what...

Well that was my rant....
Oh... and you still can't bring food in... but it wouldn't be so bad if the place was clean and you had some good food choices.. I mean I feel less dirty leaving Orange County after a night of racing.... what is up with that?

[LongIslandJam]

Interesting suggestions:

I like a few of them, but I can bet there will be a few that will disagree.

I guess that's the fun of being an armchair quarterback or in this case a backseat driver.

But good suggestions nevertheless... At least you're headed in the right direction...

[WEEZER]

Wow is this an interesting subject, I wonder if a track insider just planted this seed to get some feed back?? I think the people who will be hurt the most are the ones who come out 2/3 times a year (most of the time you can tell because they're always over dressed for RH). Imagine their attitude when they are told they can't come in unless the march the coolers and kids back to the car to put away the drinks and food. Of course, all of us regulars here on this board will find ways to get our own food in, but the people we need to grow our sport will leave. As for the the 6/7 division shows, btgoss sounds like he's a good friend of Dick Bergren from Speedway Illustrated, who says it's good food and fast shows that please the fans and keeps them coming back. If RH would only have 3/4 divisions, it would at least produce full fields with consi's.
Maybe if RH had the sponsor's minor league ball parks have they would have a little more cash to spend.
Unfortunately, the food deal sounds a little like the tire deal for the racers, if the tire isn't bought from the track, you can't race here. Isn't there a smarter way for the business heads to make money, other then making it feel like a smack in the face to us???

[allhailunc]

Weezer it's gonna hurt people like me who come out each and every week through thick&thin no matter what.what good is it to have a soft sided cooler rule if you cant bring in anything? what is one going to put in there?their racing magazines&binoculares&stuff?Why should I pay $3-$4 for a 16 oz cup of warm piss when i can,and it states in the schedule no glass containers,4-6 plastic bottles of soda that cost me 2.99 for the whole thing.why should i be forced to buy hockey pucks that cost whatever they do over a ham&chees sandwich or whatever.this is the point i try to make.while i may be a real "minority" in this manner i bet,before long,one will need a megaphone to talk to the person sitting next to you,even if it's in turn 4.to put the clamps down in this manner on a paying audience that has seen their number dwindle quite a bit over the past 3-4 years is wrong-buy hey i can understand the idea behind it-i just hope that they can understand why i won't be back.i just feel bad becasue there will be many of my good freinds that i will not only miss in the pits but in the stands too.God bless all of you you know who you are :wave:

[Jones44]

JA- consider this in your comparison to minor-league baseball. I've never personally been to Keyspan Park, but seeing as how it usually plays to 100% capacity, I'll assume the Cyclones run their operation similar to the Ducks. For the "casual" fan like myself who might like to take in 3-4 games a month: $10 admission (compared to $22-$25), a wider array of food and beverage choices, sponsored giveaways (that cost the promoter little to nothing) at more than half of the events, entertainment during "down" time (what can be more fun than seeing some big guy spinning his head around a baseball bat and then trying to run from 3rd to home?). Sure, I like racing more than I do baseball, but something like that is hard to compete with. Minor-league teams cater to the fan a lot more than the folks running Riverhead do.

[allhailunc]

JA-one of your previous statements about minor league baseball continuing to prosper has a good & true ring to it, and you wanna know why they continue to prosper? It's because they don't keep pulling this Mickey Mouse chit on the faithful. I agree with my son about the costs & variety, as compared to the track, can't beat the bang for the buck-but that the track it seems to be being banged for your buck instead-if I wanna get screwed, I damn well better enjoy it. :mad:

[Teds Race Tours]

The only way to fight this, is for everybody who feels like this is a bad policy to stand at the ticket gate opening night, and NOT purchase a ticket. You'll need the group to be large. Once they see how many $20 bills they are losing, it may make them rethink their policy.
I for one pretty much agree that this policy is a bunch of hogwash. I love eating at Racetracks, but hey, I pretty much love eating. The "food" at Riverhead is, well, it's crap at best, and I haven't found much food that I don't like if you know me. Improve the food, and you'll improve the chances of me buying something. Just because you are not letting me bring in food, doesn't mean that I'm spending 1 cent more at what is already the most expensive weekly track that I know of. Heck, Lowes Motor Speedway has had cheaper seats for their Cup events ($19) for the last few years than it cost to get into Riverhead.
This really is banging the fan who is most loyal at the track. The guy who gets there at 3PM, and sits there all day and night week after week, and pays his/her $20-$25 on a weekly basis.
J.A. I was gonna make some points regarding Minor League Baseball, but Jones44 stole all my points. You need to compare racetracks to racetracks and Riverhead is at the highest end on food pricing, and the lowest end on food quality.
RGee. I don't need to sit there for 6 hours and watch 6 or 7 divisions. Run Mods, LM's and Chargers, make the show 3 hours, and I'd be much happier. The main reason tracks run multiple divisions these days is to take in more bucks at the back gate. Williams Grove Runs 1 or 2 divisions on a weekly basis, Charges $12 to get in, and pays one of the highest weekly purses in the country, if not the highest. The show starts at 8pm, and is over in about 3 hours. That's Value in my opinion.
I'm not singling out J.A. and Rgee, and I love to listen to everybody's opinions. It ultimately helps me make decisions at my job. Riverhead Raceway is a business and can do whatever it sees fit. If they want to choose to Charge $50 to get in, and $10 a beer, that's within their rights. But every choice they make has a consequence, and the fans have spoken rather loudly on this one. The fans need to be prepared to back up their words with actions, or nothing will change regarding this policy. Stand outside the main gate on opening night until they change the policy you don't agree with, and be ready to go home if they don't. Don't be angry, don't be rude, just stand there holding up $20 bills. You can change a lot if you band together.
Realize I've been to about 90 Cup races, and at everyone of them I was allowed to bring in food and beverage. Even at Bristol, a track that could say if you want to buy a ticket, you can't bring in food, beverage, hats, jackets, scanners, etc, and would still be able to sell 166,000 seats to their Cup races, I've brought in outside food and beverage. At everyone of those Cup Races, and at over 60 Short Track visits I have been able to leave the track, and go out to my car/bus, and reenter the track. Riverhead is the ONLY track I know of that won't allow this. I support Riverhead raceway's right to run the track the way they want, and I hope that they support my freedom of speech on this matter.

[TMAC]

So where are we all going to meet for opening day? Are we going to stand at both gates, or do we stand by the road WITH SIGNS saying we are not happy with the changes to there policy? WE NEED THIS TO BE DONE TO SHOW THEM THAT: A-WE WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS TYPE OF PLOY. B-START FILLING UP THEIR EMAIL ADDRESS AND VOICE MAIL [RIVERHEAD RACEWAY.COM] with questions as to why this has to happen!

AND PS: If Riverhead is reading these, I have no problem maybe once a month going out there early [if they change those food rules] and help them clean up the trash, but then again there mostly won't be as much, because no one I know will buy a thing when forced to do so.

MAN! I TRULY ENJOY GOING OUT TO RIVERHEAD EACH WEEK, BUT THIS JUST MAKES ME ILL. BUT TO CURE IT, I MIGHT JUST, LIKE OTHER RACERS AND FANS HAVE DONE BEFORE, GO TO WALL TOWNSHIP RACEWAY. IT ISN'T THAT FAR TO TRAVEL WEEKLY!!!!!!!!

[Mortgage Guy]

OK UNC, don't you buy a license every year to be able to go in the pits??? How many people bicthing on here have a NASCAR license??? Most who have a license have a friend who is affiliated with a team right??? Mighty Mike possibly Unc... Bring in what must be the most unbelievable Ham & Cheese sandwich and I'm sure you can store it in his trailer and when you feel hungry go in the pits and eat, or is it too far of a walk?? Maybe you should go to Wall or Thompson and be able to bring your own food in, let me know how much more it costs for gas & tolls every week. To make a big deal out of this is a joke, are you people there to eat OR WATCH THE RACES... You are not the type of person that would leave your friends that you have built relationships with over the years over food, are you??? I know you're not, so see you opening night pal, and now let's talk some racing folks...

[allhailunc]

You know something- I don't have an answer for that one :lol:, but maybe you can answer one for me. Why should I have to walk back into the pit area to eat the sandwich when I usually spend 99% of my time in the same seat I have watched the races for 20 years now. The original point that I "attempted" to bring out is that, while there is "food" available for sale at the track (and drink too), why should someone all of a sudden, who has been used to being allowed to eat and drink what they prefer, be subject to a "rule" that has never been enforced? The insurance angle I can understand to a point, but that really pertains to those that tend to imbibe themselves to a stupor and either fall on their butts, or start unecessary trouble. What damage can one do with a sandwich? The concessions will still be making their monies because the majority of occasional attendees don't want to bother bringing anything extra, other than their behinds, while there are those of us that really do not like the menu that is presently available. Someone stated earlier that maybe an inclusion of "outside" concerns might make the situation much more pleasant and enjoyable and to that I say "HERE HERE", but I still feel that I have a right to chose what I want to eat and drink (just my own opinion). As for seeing me on opening night, maybe yes, maybe no, but I wouldn't want to hold my breath on that one. Will we be missed? I doubt it, for some other fool will take our place, both at the track and in the stands. All I am trying to do here is to stand up for my right to chose and when that right is impeded in any way, I feel I have the right not only to challenge that, but also to decide whether or nor I want to be part of it. Sorry folks for being so "GD" longwinded here, but my Irish side is taking over and I hope you will forgive me for that. :wave:

[Hobo]

OK UNC, don't you buy a license every year to be able to go in the pits??? How many people bicthing on here have a NASCAR license??? Most who have a license have a friend who is affiliated with a team right??? Mighty Mike possibly Unc... Bring in what must be the most unbelievable Ham & Cheese sandwich and I'm sure you can store it in his trailer and when you feel hungry go in the pits and eat, or is it too far of a walk?? Maybe you should go to Wall or Thompson and be able to bring your own food in, let me know how much more it costs for gas & tolls every week. To make a big deal out of this is a joke. Are you people there to eat OR WATCH THE RACES... You are not the type of person that would leave your friends that you have built relationships with over the years over food are you??? I know you're not, so see you opening night pal and now let's talk some racing folks...

I will tell you what Mortgage guy, the gas and tolls are almost worth going to Thompson, not only for the races, but for the sausage and pepper heros. UuuuMMM No need to bring food there. But me, for one, will cut down on how many Saturday races I will go to this year. It costs a small fortune just to bring my family 1 Sunday a month when I race the enduros. I feel if they won't let you bring in food, then at the very least they should allow fans to go to their cars for a snack and return to the track at will. Oh, but they won't do that in fear you go to your truck and have 2 beers instead of drinking their icky tap stuff. Hey, just my 2 pennies.

[pitbull113]

Some of you people just don't get it. It's not so much the extra couple of dollars for the crappy food. It's the fact that the racetrack is getting less and less fan friendly. If RR is claiming that they are not making enough money, maybe they should do things to draw people in, not chase them away. Just because this is the only track on the island doesn't mean they have to treat us like crap. Go to any other track in the northeast and you will realize what a hole RR is. Being that it is on LI, it should be that much better than the rest. I feel sorry for you guys, you have no choice but to go there. I hope for your sake somebody builds another short track on the island, but that's doubtful.

[Tracy87BB]

In response to TMAC, all I can say is this...I am not taking sides on this issue at this point one way or the other. Perhaps my view will change when I bring my two-year-old out there and he wants to snack all day long (even when I bring him, I'm typically there by 4), or when he wants a drink (because I'm not sure what I'll give him to drink...I'm certainly not keen on the idea of him drinking soda or iced tea all day, he can't stomach straight juice - no less Gatorade, and it is a battle to get him to drink plain water). A protest with signs by the road, however, is not the answer IMO. The media would have a field day. I just don't see how getting bad press for racing in general could have any positive impact.

[MonaLisa5869]

I have worked at RH on and off for over 20 years. I am now the manager of the pit stand; we as a whole (workers) have brought up many of these suggestions to the owners. But unfortunately it is what it is. I just do my best to keep the stand clean and make the food that I serve palatable. I try to go the extra mile for my customers. But I can't do everything I want because my hands are tied.
One of my suggestions was to have a souvenir cup (purchase price about 5.00) and then offer 1.00 refills. I think this would cut down on garbage and be more affordable for families. I find it very hard to tell the mother of a young child that we have no juice or extra milk to sell. I agree with you all about the no food policy but on the other hand I see the aftermath (garbage and such that people leave behind instead of putting it in garbage cans). This costs more because you have to pay people to clean it up. More garbage more labor cost. As for the bathrooms!!! Well let me tell you that there are some pigs in this world and I'm not talking the 4 legged kind. What we have to clean up on Monday mornings would make most people loose their breakfast.

So what I guess what I'm trying to say is, Yes the track has a lot of room for improvement, but on the other hand, so do the people (not all ) just the few who ruin it for the rest, they need to look at what they do and how it affects the rest of us.

[pitbull113]

Let me just say none of my comments are directed towards the people who work at the track. You guys are just doing the best you can with what you have.

[W. J.]

Mona Lisa, one question is brought to mind. If people can't bring outside food in, and have to purchase only from the concession stands, how is that going to cut down the level of trash??? Isn't the food from the stand wrapped in paper, served on plates, etc?? The beer and soda comes in cups (no deposit as an incentive to keep them off the ground).The problem is getting people to use the litter containers, and they are less likely to if they are unhappy about something else (this food and drink restriction).
I like some of your ideas (souvenir cup w/refill). And the bathrooms are the fault of the unkempt pigs who make them what they are at the end of a typical night. It is definitely not the fault of the owners or anyone who works at the track.

[Mortgage Guy]

Larry I understand your point but, you can eat what you want are your house, where you make the rules, this is their house, and unfortunately, they make the rules. Hey look at all the money you saved by "breaking" (not enforced) the rules for 20yrs. Just for fun let's do some quick math here.

20 years of racing
Average amount of shows watched by Larry & Larry show per year 20
Minimum food for both guys 2 cheese burgers and 2 french fries $14.00 a week
Minimum drinks for both guys (4) $8.00

So we are looking at $22.00 a week that you saved for them not enforcing the no food or drink policy for 20 years.

Add that together and you probably saved around $8,800.00 over the years on something that only happened 1 night a week. To me that's a good amount of savings. So now that they enforce the rule, you'll never go again?? You should be thanking them for all the money they saved you over the years, not fighting them. :)

[btgoss]

Tim... you are really sounding like a "homer" on this one... the rule is dumb, pure and simple, and it is going to keep people from going to the track. I know that is not going to be the "party" line, but that is the truth.
Riverhead is a business, but a business cannot survive when it keeps making it harder and harder for the consumer to buy. In this case, the 9 hour show, combined with facilities that are pretty bad. What motivation is there for a person to go? I know you're going to say the racing, and the friends, and the general fellowship of being at Riverhead, but maybe that isn't enough for a lot of people anymore. Perhaps if the things people have brought up here are addressed, then it will turn around, but at this rate, Riverhead is just going to fade away, and I hate being negative.
I will go to the track this year, for warmups, and two other shows, the Tommy Baldwin race, and the Tour race.
I hate to say it, but it really does make one think that the Cromarty's are tired of this...the fighting with the town and all of the other garbage...and I guess I can't blame them. So they are trying to cash in as much as possible and then retire. I really hope I am wrong, because then we are screwed, since that TopGun thing is not going to happen.

Brit

[MonaLisa5869]

WJ
I'm sorry I didn't make myself more clear about the garbage, I know that the track food comes wrapped and on plates and in cups, but believe it or not, we find more Wendy's, Applebees and Taco Bell trash then we find anything else. I do agree that the fans not being able to bring food in is a step in the wrong direction. For many years I have said that the track should be promoted more and that some kind of incentive should be given for more people to attend, such as buy 3, get one free, or save $5 with your splish splash stub or something to that effect.
I love racing and my job at the track, and wouldn't give it up for the world, and I hope the track will be around so I can be there another 20 years. I believe that this no food thing will be hard to enforce and I hope it won't stop people from coming to see all these great drivers race.

[allhailunc]

Well put Tim, and I say Kudo's on that, but here's something else I'll be saving-$20 a week for the raffles for the kids flags, $200 for the second tour race for "our " drivers, and the various 5-6 fast times/specials we assist in sponsoring. This "rule" plain and simple is ridiculous. I, as a person, have the right to decide what I want to eat & drink-and I also have the right to decide not to attend if I don't believe/agree with certain policies I think are wrong. While I may be a more vocal person here on this subject, I'll bet my *** that there are a hell of a lot more people seeing it from my side of the fence than there are from the other side. It's just that they don't like to say it out in the open. Don't you think that I will be "spoken" to when & if I decide to return, for what I've had to say here (wouldn't be the first time either)? So why have to go through that for what I believe is my right to choose. I just feel that the folks in charge should take a real serious look at this decision and maybe rethink what they have decided on. :(

[W. J.]

MonaLisa, thanks for clearing that up, but the fact remains, the same people are not going to be responsible enough to throw their trash away, no matter where they buy the food they eat. If that's the main reason for enforcing the rule, and I don't really think it is, it certainly wouldn't change anything.
We all have a stake in making Riverhead a success and keeping it open and running. We at LI Jam owe much of our existence to that, though we do cover other venues. We have tried very hard to work with track management to promote racing in a favorable light, but there is no way to spin this in a good direction. People are angry about this, and it will have a negative effect on things, as evidenced by comments made here. If some sort of compromise can be made, then it will be for the good of all. If not, it only remains for time to tell us what the outcome will be.

[allhailunc]

Well put WJ well put :applause: :applause: :applause:

[btgoss]

Yes WJ is right on the money...
And this site has helped to get the word out, but can you imagine the trouble this will cause anyone who hasn't read this news here, or on the tracks site, or heard it from a friend... they are not going to be too happy... and I'M SURE they will know about it before they buy a ticket...

Brit

[W. J.]

I received this in an email from Ron Langdon:

"Since I can't figure out how to respond to the forum section, I figured I'd try to respond to the (Food) issue here. Although we only go out to the track a couple of times a year, we generally bring a large group of kids with us. (Most times, 10 or more.) Since most of them will now be considered adults, I don't think we will be attending any races. The cost of bringing in the kids, along with having to pay for food, will be just too much to bear. I have always been an avid supporter of Riverhead Raceway and I wouldn't want to have to run it. Maybe I can make a few suggestions. These suggestions do not include just food.

#1 -front gate- adult $20.00, 12-18 yrs $10.00, 6-11 yrs $5.00, 6 and under free (keeps it affordable for teens who might want to bring a girlfriend)
#2 This only applies if food is NOT allowed. Try to get Coke and Pepsi in with 16 oz. bottles. Ducks games have this and it's not too expensivve (if I had to pay $2.00 for a 16-20 oz. bottle it wouldn't be too bad). As for the food, I like the fries, but the rest had better be left to someone who knows how to handle food taste/cost issues.
#3 If food is allowed in, same as # 2.

Just thought I'd put in my 2 cents. Who knows, maybe the folks at Riverhead might want to call me and talk it over, just ideas to bounce back and forth. My father once said, "You can't look at the picture if you're stuck in the frame." Maybe Barbara and Jim just need some help looking at the picture so they can better assess it. They need constructive comments, not complaints. Thanks for the time. RON LANGDON."

There you have it, another good opinion on this subject (JMO)

[LongIslandJam]

I agree with Ron,

Constructive criticism is needed and not just mere bashing. Boycotting the track will not work, as you want to remedy the food issue, while not hurting the track. We all want racing on Long Island right? We can agree to this.

We all want to be able to have good food while we watch the sport, right? We can all agree to this...

LongIslandJam.com will NOT support any bashing or idle threats, and if this thread turns into that, rather than constructive criticism, we will close it.

Ultimately in business, it's a matter of satisifying all the stakeholders involved and having a happy medium. You must balance the need to make money, while keeping your employees and customers happy. In not all circumstances will you make all three elated. Do what you must as customers of Riverhead, but in the mean time, keep the posts constructive rather than negative. You'll be taken more seriously that way as well.

[randomrodder]

I totally agree about time, I spend many hours at the track. I went to the hospital 2 years ago because of a bad sinus inffection and dehydration. I need to keep plenty of fluids in me sitting out under the hot sun. During the Summer, it gets hotter with the crowds and the humidity from the air, crowds and metal stands. This really makes me mad because I need to keep hydrated.

Police the stupid beer stand and stand full of fans in general. The drunks don't get drunk on their own supply. They get it from the beer stand, you have young people working there and I'll tell you, they're not going to be responsible! Make a quick buck, get some extra cash in the tip jar, go and party the night away!

I will respond to my son's post and the beer "issue". My wife and I attended the races every weekend while we dated and both my kids grew up at the tracks. When Islip shut down, R.I.P., we continued going to Riverhead. Little by little, I saw things change from a family night out to a bunch of "kids" drinking and getting falling down drunk. I'm no prude and had many a night of falling down when I was a teen. The sight of this behavior turned me off to Riverhead Speedway, and I stopped taking my family, and became more and more involved in my first true love of Street Rodding. I immersed my family in it. We'd go away most weekends. As Pete grew, his love for stock car and modifieds sparked anew, and now you can't keep him from a race at Riverhead for anything. He'll pay what he has to pay to be there, just as most of you will. I won't though; part of it has to do with being an old school racing fan and partly due to the cost, as well as the behavior of some.
I know the drivers are not reaping the rewards they should be, just as they didn't at Islip or Freeport. I commend the Cromartys for keeping racing alive and fairly well on Long Island but, they have, and always were, business people, first and foremost. That's ok, I guess, but I sure do hunger for the days of Ed Hawkins and Larry Mendleson. Now those were racing promoters. They made sure racing was exciting and affordable family fun.

[art11758]

First of all. Riverhead from heat races to the end can last 7 HRS. Your average ball game is about 3HRS.
Riverhead should be likened to a Nascar track, not a ballfield. What ever you can fit in the allowed size cooler, as long as it isn't glass, is O.K. I agree with the alcohol at Riverhead, and I have been known to have a few beers.
I'm going to Stafford Springs Via HAMPTON JITNEY on April 30th, and I'll let you know what I see as their policy.
When you go to the Sizzler, remember to bring a soft sided cooler. My rigid cooler was turned away at the gate last year.
Oh, with regards to promoters mentioned in the above post, don't forget Duke Donaldson over at Freeport. Most of the guys that drove when he was promoting that I know speak highly of him too.

[allhailunc]

But when they inspect it at the gate, which they should, and they see outside food and/or drink, it won't be allowed. This is the enforcible policy, like it or not-the management does have the final say. I just hope that they see it through to rethink their logic behind it. Some of us prefer not to eat the limited menu available, while others, like the very fine old gentleman that sits with us, that cannot eat what is offered because of medical reasons. This is all that I am looking for, for management to reconsider their stand on this issue. They will still make beaucoup dollars on the majority of people(although limited in numbers) that come either unprepared and eat the offered menu, or those that can't be bothered packing a small bag with something to eat & drink of their choice, and eats what is offered-so why not allow the truly limited numbers (that show up throught thick & thin-good or bad weather) that have been bringing in their refreshments of choice to continue to do so. :confused: :(

[Jeff T]

JMO, but I can see both sides to the story. The Cromarty's are in business to make money. You don't make money when you are not selling extra's such as food and drink at the concession stands. That is where they make the most money. Did you know that the average 12 ounce cup of Coke cost about 7-8 cents to produce, including the cup? (that info came straight from a Coke employee). When you sell that 8 cents worth of product for $3.00, that's a huge profit margin, even after you pay the overhead and the help. I'm sure that the costs of burgers, fries, etc. all have similar pricing structures, but without as big of a profit margin as the soft drink does. You can see why they would like to enforce this rule. It means a better bottom line-more profit.
As for the race fans, I can relate to that to. You wouldn't mind paying for food if it was decent and affordable. When you take the family to the track, you better be packing a few "Ben Franklin's" for admission and concessions. If you don't' like what is being served, what are your choices? Basically, you have none. If you can save a few dollars by hitting a Wendy's or such on the way and bring it in, all the better. Also, as brought up earlier, what if you have special diet needs, because you are a diabetic or on a strict no salt-bland diet? Guess what, you're screwed. If you can't bring your own, you might as well stay home. I for one, would like to see a more fan friendly concession area-better food, better choices, a little more affordable for the average fan, even a neater area around the concession stands, because believe me, nothing says home cooking like an order of fries covered with Riverhead Raceway dust and dirt. Let's face it, things are expensive these days-TOO expensive. Everyone is just trying to survive. We are living in the world of $3.00 a gallon gas, and one of the highest cost of living areas in the country. I would be nice if ...1.) the race track provided a better selection of food at reasonable prices and 2.) the fan's took advantage of the new concession foods and prices so that they could and would patronize the raceway at the concession stands so that there would not be a need to bring in coolers with their own food.

[art11758]

I was discussing this topic over the weekend with a variety of people and I got some interesting feed back. From a non racing person I got the question "What is the the tracks official statement regarding your concerns?" To which I replied "I don't think other than the published notice there is one."
Which speaks volumes to me. Which causes me to ask who is the "go to" person at the track for operations? Do we as a online community have such a person or access??
The litter problem. I've dropped some junk under the stands for as long as I can recall. Don't even recall when I got the idea it was okay to do so. I can easily police myself with that regard. After all everything I bring comes in a plastic sack so it can easily be a multi purpose sack. My girlfriend, who racechases with me on occasion, made an interesting observation regarding the garbage pails at Riverhead. Once they are full, they just over flow. Perhaps there is a solution that is easy to fix that.
Riverhead she also noted is the only place she has been with me that does not have someone in the restrooms.(like an attendant or porter) At the tracks I've been to that do, they do a heck of a job and I have no problem tipping the attendant if I'm not wishing I wore hipboots to the restroom. Not being out of piano roll in the stall and paper towels are also a welcome thing.
Just my and some other peoples thoughts.

[rydogg97]

I agree with all people with families that Riverhead Raceway is going the wrong way to make it affordable to enjoy the sport we love! Now that being said, we as fans, writers, etc. have weighed in heavily on the issue. Why doesn't someone from raceway mgmnt write in on this issue? Or are they blinded with visions of our hard earned dollars floating in their heads? I think the track staff do a great job with what they have to work with, which ain't much!! I would also like to take the time to thank all of the drivers who, despite lack of prize money, keep coming back week after week to put on a great show!!!

(your PS message was much too personal, not constructive at all, slightly off the real topic, and has been deleted from this post. W.J.)

[EricBrill33]

Hey guys I also work at the concession stands and like what I do, even though I do think that the prices should be much lower. I agree with what Monalisa said with having souvenir cups or having buy 3, get 1 free. Now with the trash that is left all over the place, I always see the trash bins overflowed with garbage and nobody ever empties them out during the races. I think that if the garbage pails were ever emptied, the place would be much neater. There is much room for improvement and I think with a lot of people reading all these posts that the track is going to change a bit over time.

[TMAC]

Regarding Someone Getting In Contact With Riverhead. I Sent Them An Email Regarding The Food Rule Last Week, but Some How As I Was Writing This In My Head, I Was Feeling Like I Was Not Going To Get A Reply. If I Do, I Will Write Back Their Reply On The Jam.

[allhailunc]

TMAC went that route and it's a "No-go" direct from the promoters-read your PM :(

[maestri fan 1]

This is what I have to say about all of this. As far as I'm concerned, Riverhead uses the excuse of being the only track on Long Island as a benefit to make money. They basically say to themselves that they are the only track left so.... let's bump up the admission prices, and the food prices, and while we are at it, no one can bring food into the track. This to me sounds like we are being robbed. Just my opinion. Now I go to a track up in Vermont every year. ThunderRoad Speedbowl, it is owned by Ken Squier, $10.00 for an adult ticket and $5.00 for a child's ticket. They have four divisions and they start at 6:00 PM on Thursday nights and go until about 10-10:30. The food prices there aren't even close to the prices of Riverhead's, and to top it off, it is the best racing I have ever seen anywhere and a packed house everynight. Riverhead needs to lower the prices of admission, and lower the food prices and advertise a little more and they will be a great facility to go and watch a race. That's my opinion, too bad it won't do anything to change the track at all.

[LEAD LAP]

I have to agree that the Riverhead has a huge image problem. Many people I speak with (outside of the racing circle) say: "Is that place still open", or even still: "Is that dump still open ?

This attitude of "this is the way it is, take it or leave it" is what is turning A LOT of people off from coming from the track. I don't know if it's coming from the Owners directly, or from the management at the track. And it's not limited to the treatment of fans. The typical answer given to us racers from our questions and suggestions goes like this: "TOO BAD", "SO WHAT", "DON"T LIKE IT- DON'T COME", "BECAUSE I SAID SO", etc. We're not LUCKY to still have the Track. The track is LUCKY to still have US! It makes you think that the best thing to happen to Riverhead Raceway would be for a new track to be built in Yaphank. This way, Riverhead will either have to keep up with the times, or will be put out of it's misery.

No one can tell me that the Owners are only making a "modest" profit on the place. That's nonsense. They have to be making a fist full of cash to be (allegedly) turning down offers to buy the property. If they really wanted to improve revenue, try fixing the place up. Charge realistic admission prices. Have giveaways on particular nights. Buy some ad time. It's not rocket science, it's basic Business Management. You have to spend money to make money. Yet, the track continues to squeeze every last penny out of it's remaining racers and fans, without putting a dime back into the place.

There's been a ton of suggestions made on this thread and in-person at the track. I wish I was wrong, but I think it will continue to fall on deaf ears.

[maestri fan 1]

There's been a ton of suggestions made on this thread and in-person at the track. I wish I was wrong, but I think it will continue to fall on deaf ears.


Couldn't have said it better myself.

[LongIslandJam]

All I can say is, that you guys have expressed your voice and your thoughts full circle (6 pages worth). The powers that be have seen your voice... We are not making any headway. My advice to you is that you disagree with the policy, do what you must. We must move on, but ultimately the customer has the final say with their wallet. This is a fundamental you learn in any business. That's your real voice.

Let's move on...