Make heats count!

[bulldozer]

I think we should talk in our Winter meetings about making the heats count towards the main event. For example, let's say there are 21 chargers cars and there are three heats with 7 in each..Spread the heats with the handicapping from the last three weeks. Heat 1 would have 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19. Heat 2 would have 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, 20. Heat 3 would have 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21. One would have the least amount of points and so on. So whoever won the 1st heat would start on the pole, whoever won the second heat would start 2nd and whoever won the third heat would start third and so on. So if you start 7th in the first heat and end up winning, then the pole is his. It's just the car count is down and the heats are useless if everyone is qualifying. Instead of a guy pulling out after one lap because he doesn't want to burn up his car because he's qualified, now they will go out there to win and the heats will become an event of its own. Also, that means if you win your heat you DESERVE to start up front. Not the guys who start up front all year and are going to the rear everyweek. These guys will have to earn their spot through the heats. The guys that are slower will start towards the rear and it eventually should lead to a better race and less wrecks, because the faster cars won't have to come from the rear and be held up by the slower cars, which leads to Wrecks. Just my opinion. What does eveyone else think?

[RGeeProductions]

From what I see from this is fast cars in front come Feature time and pull from the rest of the field. Isn't handicapping the field, the way the do now, make a driver work to get the championship? Better racing? And better show for fans? And not the same 1 or 2 or 3 fast cars always walking the dog on the field?

JM'P'O 'P'=polish, lol

[Jeff T]

Hey 'Dozer,
I brought up the idea a few weeks ago about the very subject. Unfortunately, not all are in agreement that the heat races need to have some value to them. I personally feel that they need to put something in there, whether it be additional points for winning or $$$, or improved starting position in the feature. I know the last thread ended with some opinions saying that good race cars would get wrecked before the feature. I know that this is a possibilty, but are you racers out there to race, or are you out there to play follow the leader? If you made the heat races mean something, it would make it more exciting for the fan who is paying $20 a head to get in. Maybe, just maybe, the increased competition in the heat race will entice the patrons to come for all of the races, as was the norm several years ago, rather than just show up for the features, which seems to be the normal now.

[bulldozer]

Just like Nextel cup, if you are fast, you will be up front. The same guys are up front in that too, but we still love it. If you aren't up to par, then you will have to do your homework to beat the guys who will start up front and finish up front everyweek. It will make it that much more gratifying, if that person who doesn't start up front always, finally gets his car right and wins, and not just starting up front because he didn't finish the last three weeks. :)

[BIRDNUT]

Why Not Make 2 Heats Instead Of 3. This Way You Have Xtra Time And Don't Have To Cut Any Shows Out. You Still Can Run Your Circus Acts.

[RGeeProductions]

Just like Nextel cup, if you are fast, you will be up front. The same guys are up front in that too, but we still love it. If you aren't up to par, then you will have to do your homework to beat the guys who will start up front and finish up front everyweek. It will make it that much more gratifying, if that person who doesn't start up front always, finally gets his car right and wins, and not just starting up front because he didn't finish the last three weeks. :)
Only with Nextyell Cup it's 400-500 miles/laps, not 20!!!!!! Sorry, no comparision. And if I drove, and didn't have the money for a good motor or a good crew chief to set my car up, I would love the chance to start in front and possibly get a win. Think of the guys who are slow, they will always start at the rear, correct. How long do you think they will stay racing if starting in the back EVERY week? See my point now?

[fastgal]

That is Bulldozer's point. Let the fast guys tear their stuff up :confused: because the guys who don't deserve to start up front have the mentality of I can block for 20 laps. That is not racing. If you start on the pole due to handicapping for half the season, it means you just aren't getting the job done. If I raced and did nothing but hang on and maybe finish 11th; to me it isn't racing. I'm not saying they don't deserve a shot up front, but week after week of poor results should perhaps make a light go off :drool: in one's mind. Why should someone like Chris T., Steve R., or Lutz go for a win in a heat if your gonna start 15th anyhow? You would learn more starting 20th and finishing 10th than starting on the pole and falling back to 12th.

[44chargerfan]

That's why you see Oxee coast in his heats, because he's just gonna start in the back for the feature.

[RACENUT]

It might make the heats more interesting, but it would be boring watch the mains with the fastest cars starting up front.

[art11758]

I see everyones point here. However, short track handicapping has, at least in my memory, started the fast guys in the back. If you have the go fast stuff and experience to "deserve" to start up front every week, perhaps you need a more difficult challenge. Learning is a funny process. No two folks learn the same or for that matter see the same situation alike. Way back in the day, I crewed on a low buck car that won a championship. The way we got there was thru consistency. I think in the track directory of years later, it listed us as having won two features. Ever.
There were guys who asked the same questions fairly often, trying to learn, and just never "got" it. We (I) learned as we went, tried lots of things, (many of which didn't work) and helped others who were helpable. The point I'm getting at (or trying to) is at that time there were some really smart guys who had some stuff that really worked and lots of others. Because somebody else cannot figure it out, they should be banished to back marker land? It is pretty humbling to finish poorly to begin with, so to keep interest in a division up, there is handicapping. It evens the field and gives everyone a shot. It also allows the "cream to rise". Starting up front because you're fast leads to boring racing. (Been to a Busch North race that had passing lately?) It's like follow the leader. Then again, there are times where those who don't time well, race well. (It is what keeps me going to WMT races.)
Remember too, that the promoter is in the entertainment business, and in that process, you get the opportunity to race. I mean how cool is that? I realize fields are short, and it is a little frustrating. Fixing a system that isn't broken won't change any of that.
Just my old opinion.

[DODGE99]

Everyone is worried about the same (fast) cars starting up front if they change the way the heats are ran, but as it is now, the same 6 or 7 cars start up front every week anway. It's just that they race their way to the back as soon as the green comes out. In my opinion, I dont think the cars that aren't the fastest out there are learning anything by being bounced outta the way and headed to the back. If they were to make heat races count as your starting postion in the feature, yes, these guys would be back there, but there's only one way to go from there and that's the way these guys will learn. I've started just outside the top 10 almost every week this season, and it's the same guys in front of me, as well as behind me, and it's also the same guys in front of me that I dodge every week to not get tangled up in the crap. All in all, I think bulldozer is 110% right, and I agree to having heat races mean something.

[bulldozer]

RGee I think the guys starting in the back every week might show up every week because his car will still be in one piece. Instead of the fast guys driving through them because they won't pick a lane or keep up with the pack. Remember, the heats are only 10 laps they could finish up front and start up front. If they can't hold 7 cars up for 10 laps, how is his chance to hold 21 cars for 20 laps? I think the racing will be better with the top guys jockeying for the win. Unless you make the mains 10 extra laps everyweek and then I wouldn't mind the same system. :)

[allhailunc]

Eliminate the whole heat process and have time trials every week. This way, those "slow" cars will be stuck in the back.

[Short & Simple]

I haven't been around since the Islip days. Why do they have heat races if they don't count? Wouldn't time trials be boring?

[RACENUT]

Don't Even Bother Having Heats. The Owners Would Save Money On Gas And Tires. You Could Run All Six Division Every Week, start the shows at 6:00, giving the fans more time to get to the track to see all the races and still have time for the circus acts.

[btgoss]

I am glad someone else started this topic and not me.
Riverhead has become a back gate track where any 7 or 8 guys and a dream can start a division and be on the bill... (cough cough.. Super Pro Trucks...cough cough..)
That being said, having heat races for such anemic fields is ridiculous, and is only being done because of what it says on your front gate ticket... at the completion of 5 races, the event shall be considered complete...or something to that effect... Back in the GOOD OLD DAYS!!... like at Islip or Freeport, that number would get you into the last consi, or maybe the first feature if it was Islip... but at Riverhead, you get that number before the first feature is done...so it is done to cover the gate...call me a cynic...
Now back to heat races... they should only be run when you have at least one heats worth of additional cars...at least 8. So if we start 21 cars, we don't have heats until 29 roll through the back gate. This makes heat and consi's important.
Until that time, the track really should run time trials for all classes, and invert the top 6-10, depending on a draw, audience choice, direction of the wind, anything... it would keep the fast guys from hammering the Karp out of the slow guys...and it would give the slow guys some time to get up to speed... maybe have a last chance dash for non-qualifiers or something... So time in 18 and the rest fight it out in a 10 lap consi or something.. it is done at many tracks around the country.
As for the races being boring. I think we need to make some big changes at the track to make it more interesting... remove mirrors, remove radios, remove half of the divisions... you know... simple things... and then we will see exciting racing...but that is another topic...

[Tower Man]

BT...I'm starting to like what you are saying. No disrepect to the present manner of operation. But things can be changed. If it doesn't work, you can always go back.

[allhailunc]

Geez-here I thought I was the only "critic" on how certain aspects of the track were done :lol: heats for an "anemic" field (well put BT :applause: ) are ridiculous-screaming about saving time, yet run heats with 5-6 cars-makes sense to me (NOT). Time trials, until car counts bolster their appearance, will save more time than any series of heats, but then again that's just my opinion, and everyone knows that I'm just the "Village idiot" :rolleyes: :wave: