Troubled by a recent post in the Late Model thread. My rant. (long)

[btgoss]

In a recent post on the Riverhead Late Model portion of this forum, someone had suggested that the track drop the Late Model division. Instead of people expressing their disagreement in a rational way, it quickly devolved to name calling and the thread was closed. I got to the thread after it had been closed, and I am sorry for that since that is one of my favorite topics to discuss. Aside from an answer to that question I want to ask why there was a such a reaction to that opinion?

For those people who got on that guy about his opinion, you really need to sit down and relax. It was his opinion. You may say something to the effect of "Well, he shouldn't have said it in this forum." That is just wrong. The Late Model forum is the best place to say something like that, where supposedly the people most closely involved will have the ability to comment. To beat that person up for his opinion was just wrong, and those who commented along those lines really should feel ashamed. It showed not only a complete lack of understanding of what a forum is supposed to promote, but it showed the lack of respect for another person that it seems the track is finally going to address.

This forum should be the best place to express negative opinions about the track and those who race there, but only when everyone gives each other the respect they would expect in return.

That having been said.

The Late Model division should be given the axe. As should the Chargers. Plan a 2-4year transition period, where at the end of that time the "new" Late Model division will be born, running cars more in line with the Late Models from the Connecticut tracks. This should be done for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is anemic car counts of both divisions. Many of you seem to forget this is entertainment, and bringing in fresh blood is the single most important consideration at Riverhead, and really any track. At this point there is very little difference, to the new fan, between the two classes. There is nothing "special" about either one. Combined with the low car counts, and you are left with about 25 guys who really want to race, so combine the division. This makes the division "special" as there will not really be other cars that look like that racing, and it makes the show better, with more real racing.

The Trucks, well they are neither Super nor Professional. Combine them in as well, 4 years then they are gone.

I could go on, but I have made my point about the divisions mentioned in the original post.

The problem of the top division having the highest car counts needs to be addressed. This could be just one way of doing it.

Rational responses are welcomed.

[CheckerWon]

Blunderbust division has the highest car count every year not the "top" division....................Artie P.

[Mike Fields]

Artie, the "low-buck" division at most tracks usually have the highest car count (no surprise there). Still, it's rarely the feature division.

[Turbo]

So generally your saying get rid of 3 divisions and make them into 1? So we will have about 3 divisions a night. And your right, everyone gets their shot to show their positive or negative opinion. And I think jeffrey expressed his opinion about the drivers and the division, and the late model guys responded back with their opinions on how it kinda was like a shot to the heart since they are working hard at trying to get racing back to what it used to be. So mostly all the responders felt that the post of his opinion was hurting the hopes they have on reviving racing in general. If I look back, I only seen one negative thing said about getting rid of the division compared to about 25 disagreeing showing their displeasure. Let them show their displeasure, because it showed me that the racing community is sticking together on getting racing back to what its suppose to be. Makes me confident that we are becoming a "racing community" again by sticking together!!!! I like to see that more often!! and remember...this is all "just my opinion"!!

[WEEZER]

The positives of only havng 3 divisions would be higher cars counts (guys whose class was dropped would either move up/down/or not race), heat races would mean a helluva lot more and the show would be done at a reasonable time, but the job of deciding what divisions go is one I'd never want.

[The Bullfather]

A lot of tracks have phased out divisions to help grow a newer division with similiar rules. We've exprienced losing divisions on Long Island. I'm not backing either opinion but this thread is a lot better then what we had before! How many times did we hear a rumor of the Pro Trucks being moved in with the Charger class? I know I've heard many times the past 4-5 years. I'm happy it didn't happen, but we've seen a lot of drivers move over or into the truck division. I feel our Late Model class should be more like thoses in Northeast, more tracks for bigger money when an off night is available or atleast the option! I'm not sure how much the money difference would be, maybe J.A. can fill us in, he's more in tune with the LMs in the area. We've also seen Mighty Mike take his hot rod up north and run good, but how many cars here can run with thoses guys and their equipment? Home advantage will always be a plus for the drivers!

[btgoss]

The real positives of trimming back on the number of divisions would be a better show. One that should allow a return to the 6-7pm start time, while keeping the end of the night at the required 11pm (actually the track should aim for a 10pm end time, a 3-4 hour show should be the goal,)
This should help the crowds, and should help the track to be a better neighbor. That is something that the track cannot do enough of, don't make waves. Show the people of Riverhead that the track is going to be a positive influence on the town.
Merging those divisions will see some people drop out, that is certain, but if you could form a solid core of 25-30 guys. Running cars that can race somewhere else, and that aren't too expensive. Well I think that would be a winning situation. What is the downside?
Change is very important in life, and honestly Riverhead has not changed enough. But you can clearly see that it was not done out of greed or malice. They have given just about every division that has raced on Long Island a home. They haven't been ruthless, when perhaps they should have. They need to prune some of those dead branches.

We can discuss what they should run. I have my ideas, and I have said them here before. The modifieds should transition into an SST/SK type car, the Charger/Truck/Late Models should merge in the new Late Models, the Blunderbusts could still remain the same, but they are getting a little too much like big Chargers and that will become a problem. So there are your 3 weekly divisions. Legends, which will again pass all other divisions in car count at the end of 2 years, will alternate with the Figure 8 guys for a fourth division, but that should alternate with something for the rubes. You know monster truck, Captain Dynomite, Motorcycle Stunt show. The Legend and Figure 8 will both have that Sunday show with the Enduros. This is very much like what worked during the golden age of Long Island racing, and there is nothing that says it shouldn't work now.

Also, just so I am clear, the Figure 8 guys are on notice as well. They need to get a set of rules that promotes a larger field since that is really the show for the non or new race fan. And make no mistake, that is the role that division should play.

So that's that.

[W. J.]

BT, you have some different ideas than what's been presented before, but I see a problem. What do the displaced drivers/owners do with the leftover equipment when a division is dropped or changed? Many have a very big investment in that equipment, as this is no longe the 50's or 60's when most of it was salvaged from scrap yards, hopped up, and raced. 5 figures for an engine is the norm in almost every division out there, and while I know that's part of the problem, there needs to be a viable solution, and I can think of none.

Modifieds downgraded to SK? I don't think that's going to happen, not without a lot of disturbance from the folks who own them. As for 'folding one division into another', you might be able to do it gradually with LM/Charger cars that currently run at Riverhead, but not without some big expense being laid off on one or both divisions, and you just might not achieve the desired result.

In the end, simply stated, your ideas are good, but they aren't practical to today's circumstances. It might have been a good idea 10 years back before the cars became what they are now, but too many people's bank accounts would suffer from the wholesale changes you're talking about, and I just don't think it will happen. J/M/O

[unowho243]

Wow another senseless thread.....
seems that if you don't like so many divisions at the track then why do you come?
I don't think any of the divisions at Riverhead should be dropped or merged.Go to other tracks the size of Riverhead most divisions have 8-10 cars as the NORM so don't complain, i think the racing here is great in all divisions. It seems that most of your posts on this forum are negative BT. Why must you waste all of our time on useless rants? I seriously wonder why you bother if you were a real racefan like the rest of us you would come up with plans to make the divisions better not just say "CAN" them if they don't increase car counts

[RacinRob]

I dont think that Riverhead should drop any of there division but SHOULD make there rules more other track friendly....you go to mountain on an off night for the mods or late models you see our guys going there. When do you ever see an outside guy coem to Riverhead? Also our divisions are kind of not the "norm" we dont really have a street stock divisons as most tracks do. The blunderbust are too heavy for a street stock and the chargers are too advanced. Just a couple of thoughts or opinions no negativity.

[wayne]

Here we go again!!

[LongIslandJam]

btgoss has the right to his own opinion.

And face it, with less divisions you can have more laps, better purses, and you'll wind up (eventually) with better car counts. You can grandfather in the old cars to make it work.

It makes sense, it's just tough when you've got to cut your own leg off to survive. The key is no drastic changes in short-term. Stretch out any changes.

[Hollywood]

Oh Boy!
If you make the late models, chargers and the trucks all in the same division there could be some serious problems.. Mostly money problems.. The chargers exist because it is less expensive to run, as well as the trucks. The late models have to be almost as expensive as the Mods to run. Sounds to me like NASCAR is ahead of the game making speedways use a CRATE motor to keep costs down and car counts up... Wasn't there a big stink not too long ago that "we" will NOT have crate motor divisions here? It's gonna happen..... JMO HW

[Golf Guy]

In a recent post on the Riverhead Late Model portion of this forum, someone had suggested that the track drop the Late Model division. Instead of people expressing their disagreement in a rational way, it quickly devolved to name calling and the thread was closed. I got to the thread after it had been closed, and I am sorry for that since that is one of my favorite topics to discuss. Aside from an answer to that question I want to ask why there was a such a reaction to that opinion?
For those people who got on that guy about his opinion, you really need to sit down and relax. It was his opinion. You may say something to the effect of "Well, he shouldn't have said it in this forum." That is just wrong. The Late Model forum is the best place to say something like that, where supposedly the people most closely involved will have the ability to comment. To beat that person up for his opinion was just wrong, and those who commented along those lines really should feel ashamed. It showed not only a complete lack of understanding of what a forum is supposed to promote, but it showed the lack of respect for another person that it seems the track is finally going to address.

This forum should be the best place to express negative opinions about the track and those who race there, but only when everyone gives each other the respect they would expect in return.

That having been said.

The Late Model division should be given the axe. As should the Chargers. Plan a 2-4year transition period, where at the end of that time the "new" Late Model division will be born, running cars more in line with the Late Models from the Connecticut tracks. This should be done for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is anemic car counts of both divisions. Many of you seem to forget this is entertainment, and bringing in fresh blood is the single most important consideration at Riverhead, and really any track. At this point there is very little difference, to the new fan, between the two classes. There is nothing "special" about either one. Combined with the low car counts, and you are left with about 25 guys who really want to race, so combine the division. This makes the division "special" as there will not really be other cars that look like that racing, and it makes the show better, with more real racing.

The Trucks, well they are neither Super nor Professional. Combine them in as well, 4 years then they are gone.

I could go on, but I have made my point about the divisions mentioned in the original post.

The problem of the top division having the highest car counts needs to be addressed. This could be just one way of doing it.

Rational responses are welcomed.

I disagree with you in so many ways I don't know where to start. First the Jeffrey guy started his post with "they should do away with the late models sorry to say". Negativity will always breed negativity, especially when you are being negative about a group that is prideful (which the LM class is). He follows up his first insightful post with "I feel sorry for you late model drivers.for the last 10 or so years the owners of riverhead have treated you guys like $#!t.and you guys think by haveing two talks you guys had will change things". You cannot expect anything but a strong reaction. Many times I feel some people make these types of statements just to get a reaction. Now on to your post btgoss. You are very quick to reduce divisions and put division on "notice". What do you own and race out at the track? Because if you are telling any of the guys and girls who put their money, sweat, tears, and time into building, fixing and getting their cars ready to race that they are going away because you do not see the fun it- well you have a big fight on your hands. (I know Walt, that was a run on sentence). Let me ask one question, why should the owners of Riverhead be concerned that the cars in their racing division be legal at other race tracks? I personally don't think cars travel here for 2 reasons, costs and perceived (or not) fairness of racing.
Again I have no problems with opinions; everyone will always have one, or two or three... But come on, opinions should have an ounce of constructiveness to them or keep them to yourself.
If I hurt Jeffrey’s feelings or yours btgoss, then I apologize. But racing is a way of life, either your in or your out.

[The Bullfather]

Now this post is atleast is a good conversation. Its good to bring out ideas, if people like them or not. Change has happen in the past and will in the future. I'd hate to see any division go, but when there isn't growth it only hurts the division. As Hollywood said a lot of divisions are going with crate motors, would the Late Models or Chargers benefit more with a crate motor? We need to save face and keep car counts up without hurting the racing on the track. We've grown accustomed with the divisions and rules we have for the divisions. I don't think we'll ever see the Mod class move to a sk style, too many mods and too many teams would have the change and that not a class that is lacking cars right now. Some nights we had a hard time getting a full field, but some nights we sent guys home without making the feature. I love the fact we have tour style mods, they can go to other tracks and race WMT mods.

What would you like to see to help theses divisions grow or grow into?