To Move Cars or Not to Move Cars...

[310fig8]

I have run Enduros both ways. If I had my way I would go with removing the cars like they did at Big Diamond. However as Uncle Petey pointed out that was not pure Enduro rules. If the vote goes to leave the cars on the track, I would like to see it modified slightly. A car (driver or driverless) stopped crossways across the track simply takes up much too much room. My suggestion would be at least to move the car so its facing the same way that the traffic is flowing. Though Enduro does mean weaving and dodging, I would also like to see at least some racing room at all times. JMO
Bill Stockert 310

[NJ Chick]

Ok, less from the officials and more from the driver's! Come on you guys, let's hear it, for or against! I'm calling out Joe Jentile, Bobby Pease, John Cozza, Woot, Winky, Ryan Nelson, Dave Bentley, Mike Ventura, TJ Kapish, The Kulik's, Boom Boom, Cory Student, Aaron Miller, Pappy, Duane Eidem, Jeff Gregor, EVERYONE ELSE, I know you all have opinions, don't be shy now!

Thank you to those who have already posted their feelings on the subject.

[EnduroFromDE]

I guess I fall under "EVERYONE ELSE"...but I say leave um' where they die...the cars that is...

[Lad3der]

enough of the discussion. car stays on the track how it dies. if its in a bad spot a red will be thrown and get te driver/transponder out, but the car will stay exactly how it died. as always drivers are told to leave the car in neutral so that if it gets hit it will roll. so quit the twitching and suck it up, it's an enduro and lets not forget it.

so i am going to say that the final decision is cars stay. if that means so guys wont come back so be it. a few less drivers wont hurt what we are doing and you never know we might just gain some more in the process and those may even come back

[DEMotorsports]

Having raced many enduros from Nazareth, PA. to San Jose, Ca. I have seen everything from the water truck coming onto the track during the race, big pumpkins (actual) for Halloween and soaping the track, all to keep the speeds down. Enduro drivers are able to adapt to any track condition, rain, shine or slime. Mix into that messy concoction "dead cars" and that my friends is what makes enduro racing unique.
Now for the safety side of "dead cars". If they are left on the track than officials should ensure that the car is not in gear or park. Hitting a solid hunk of steel that does not move hurts the neck. Maybe a Hans devices is needed?
Here is something to think about and possibly doable. Some tracks have what they call a "pusher". That is a vehicle, sort of like a push truck, that is on the track only to push cars off to the infield or to the pits. All of this is done while the race is under green. It will only push cars if the driver is sitting in them to eliminate the use of a red flag. Otherwise if a driver abandons their car due to heavy damage the car will then stay on the track. I have seen this concept done and it keeps the red flags down and the race moving. There are many ways to utilize this concept for safety purposes only.
I trust the NEETS officials will make a sound decision on the "dead car" subject. They will keep safety in mind along with the spirit of enduro racing.
I never minded the dead cars on the track. It was always a challenge of paying attention and skill of dodging obstacles. Keep it fun and safe and I'll be there.
Duane

[Sac-Man]

It has kind of evolved into a 100 lap feature. We need to mix it up and make it interesting. How about I buy 10 of those 5 gallon plastic buckets from the Home Depot and we fill them with water and put them around the track? I bet the fans get a kick out of it when someone hits one. It will make the track slick in that location for a few laps too. I’m thinking the consensus is to leave the dead cars on the track, which is fine with me. Maybe some of the Big Diamond guys don’t come but perhaps we make it fun and wild and we can draw in some new faces. I’ll do this for the small car race and hopefully someone will pitch in for the big car race.
I know I’m going to draw some flames for this idea but perhaps it will help or spur on an even better idea. I know we all want more cars, more challenge, bigger purses and trophies…

[drewsent]

If someone can provide a good, well protected truck (heavy duty bumper and push bars both front and back), with a reasonable cage, racing seat and belts, (ready for this??) ---

I'll drive the Jammer Truck!!

If I can't, I'll bet I can find a few other folks who will. A second seat for a possible spotter might be useful, but not necessary, as well.

The bottom line on the Jammer Truck is that is had to be safe, and there should probably be a penalty for hitting the Jammer Truck.

I'm not sure the Jammer Truck would have to be out on the track for the whole race, but it could 'make a few rounds' when there are dead cars on the track. Not having the Jammer Truck on the track for every lap might cut down on the number of destroyed Jammer Trucks.

Eric Drews
Drews Enterprises

To borrow something from Field of Dreams -- Jammer Truck of Dreams -- you build it they (the drivers) will come.

[EnduroFromDE]

heck if i dont have a car by then..i'll drive the Truck..im an ex-enduro driving trying to get back in it...so i'm use to being out there anyway...

[Maddawg]

It's called ENDURO RACING for a reason!!!!!!!!!!! You need to Endure !!!!!!!!! whatever it is.
I Love this sport, 100 laps caution free, maybe a red flag, whatever!!!!!!! This is absolutely the purest form of racing out there !!
Lets Keep it Real !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maddawg 417=12

[richardpetey]

D E Motorsports may have posted the answer to our problem with his mention of a vehicle to push dead cars off the track during a race.....................
The mid-west enduros used it in many of their races, but they called it a "JAMMER TRUCK".........................
This "Jammer Truck" circled the track during the race to insure that no major jam- ups caused a bottleneck on the racing surface...............
The rules stated you could not hit the "Jammer truck" or you would be automatically DQ'ed....................
In reality the "Jammer" was just another slow vehicle you HAD TO AVOID, but its true value was in keeping the track clear of major debris and allowing green flag racing..............
This "Jammer" would still keep it a true enduro and satisfy some of the other enduro guys(BDR), (NES), etc. with regards to removal of dead cars...........
I hate to see the bickering amongst all the different enduro peeps, maybe this will help keep us all a big happy family..................
UNCLE PETEY.................

[J & J Racing 41]

Im not a big fan of long reds needed to clear/move cars, having said that the best way to keep the car count healthy is to have everyone or as many as possible take a running car home with them. If you got 100+ cars thats one thing but with 30 cars or so you start destroying them and you got 20/15 car fields - we been there- we dont want to go back. Its tough to get people to build cars to support your series so take care of the ones you got. I support the idea of at least keeping the groove clear .

[enduro438]

I have been in races where the dead were left on the track. It definitely adds to the excitement for the fans and keeps the drivers attention way up. The only thing I didnt like was when the groove would be blocked and you would have 30 cars piling into each other to get around a dead car. eventually someone would knock it out of the way but lots of radiators and tires would get destroyed in those bottlenecks. I think I like the idea of a big car or truck keeping "most" of the track clear and adding a slower rolling obstacle to avoid as it rolls through the center groove. I think it would have to follow the same line so as to avoid anyone feeling they are being intentionally blocked. If you catch it at a bad time, change your line.Car cant run a different line? oh well pass it in the next turn. I know how frustrating it is when you have a line on someone and cant complete the pass because of slower traffic, but thats the nature of an enduro. You want to run balls out the whole race, run with the factory stocks, or street stocks. this will add more to the drivers ability and make a "race car" a little bit less of an asset. i think it will help the give more drivers the opportunity to run with the faster cars. When you have 30-40 drivers with a chance at winning instead of 10-15 it will increase the car counts eventually because as we all did before we started, we look at the cars from the stands and think "I can do this". Sure it sucks having to load your car on the trailer with a fork lift, but we all know the risk of losing a car before we enter the track.

[CJfilms]

So....does anyone have a spare jammer?

I would consider this a strong potential for our series to increase the action on the track and keep the safety/percent of cars surviving higher. The only problem we have now is finding the truck...

Sac-man... like the bucket idea...only worried about bits of plastic getting ran into the surface...anyone have an idea other than a bucket to use here???

Joe Jentile...right you are and that is the reason for this discussion...Over 40 cars started the GranDuro and nearly half finished. If that were to mean that 20 cars were wrecked (and blown motors don't count...we didn't do that!) and not returning to racing this season, then we now have a 20 car field and reverted back to the 2007 season car counts.

I think the main issue here is keeping the groove clear, not moving cars completely but enough to provide a racing groove for ...most... racers to utilize safety. A Jammer truck would prevent a few reds from flying, so that is definitely an idea worth trying... I hate to see even one driver have to lose their car from either wreck or blown motor, but that is the spirit of the sport...and we cannot lose that spirit. Although, the flipside to that very statement is that 20 cars out there is nothing more than a train race with a long wait for the action.

We need to make this decision based on the car counts...start registering and we will decide what we are to ultimately do here by seeing how many people are going to race. 20-30 is a small field for an enduro...60+ let's go out and have some real fun, no reason to move 'em, wet spotts (like a soaked Kurt Spotts?) on the track will add to the excitement, and the Jammer will be working overtime!

Send in those registrations everyone...it's time to play!