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Thread: The decision...

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    2,610

    your concerns and comments...and Eric's *ahem* truck

    First off, that you all for these kind words here.

    I have been hearing a lot about rough driving. I would like to believe that most of the people who come to race at a NEETS race understand the difference between enduros and demos...the problem being is that we had a lot of new faces this time and I should have stressed the fact a little clearer...I accept the blame here, I 'may' have prevented some intentional hitting. Problem is...when I explain the concept of NEETS to a newbie or an interested driver...most people think instantly, DEMO DERBY!!! I explain the rules and such in short, but they get revved up about smashing each other rather than the ordinary racing they do each an every week. I try to be clear explaining things...but sometimes, people only hear what they want to hear... Take me for example...I only listen to Erin AFTER she smacks me and says "are you listening?". .....of course I was....

    The 17dd truck in turn #2...
    1.) Yes, bad position.
    2.) We got the driver out, we could have easily moved the truck down.
    3.) It is/was MY/ERIN's truck.

    1 - It was in bad position, no doubt about it. We said at the driver's meeting, dead cars at the end of the turn would remain for the most part. This may have been a bad position, but it was facing the right direction and at the end of the turn...

    2 - Eric was removed as he should have been and he was ok...the motor is scrap though. With the red flag out, it would have been easy to move the now dead truck off the track...but #3 below explains why not...

    3 - Let me explain my thinking behind the decision to leave the truck lie there... It starts with the #38 of Don Nelson. Don came from Long Island to race with us at Grandview. Don's truck got wrecked and was left on the track. ... My truck got wrecked...why should I move it? I know that my truck is out there with the same chance to get wrecked at any time... I can't bend the rules for my benefit and let Don go home with a wrecked truck and just say to him, "Well, you know how it is...". Also, if anyone did have a scanner tapped into our official's line... It was pretty apparent that the option to move the truck was thrown out there. Several people said it, "Joe, its your truck out there, you want us to move it?". No. It was a small sacrafice to make to keep the playing field even... BUT!!! But, just remember...I still have another truck for Winky Jr. to play with!

    Kurt, I am sorry your car got wreck in the midst of things...I had high hopes for you in that car! I guess I'llhave to see you in a different car next time right?

    Don, I lost my truck yesterday as did you...you had a blast while you were out there and I had a blast watching my truck race...in the end, we both had fun...isn't that what this is all about?
    Last edited by CJfilms; 10-20-2008 at 06:59 PM.
    ________Joe the Photo Guy
    {_NEETS_}_____________www.neetsracing.com
    Co-Promoter____________Email: joe@neetsracing.com
    Webmaster_____________Cell#: 267-767-4923
    Photographer ___________Nextel: 168*153450*1

  2. #17
    gutter7

    No Way Dude, Had Enuff

    JK Joe they're already looking for another car. I like the dead car rule, like Kurt said "sure will keep guys from spending a ton of money to build racecars for this". we'll be back.

  3. #18
    champ1995

    new(?) rules

    hey folks im new to your forum but hardly new to racing!!! 30 years of everything from nascar super trucks to the four cyl. div. at my home track,White Lake Speedway The boys and girls are gettin their act together and it can only get better!!! again my hats off to you guys great job !!!! hope you all can see the way through the fog to get some dates at our track it would be a blast to have yas here!!! Gary"O",Steel Horse Fabrications New York

  4. #19
    mystic1582

    MasterKard

    This looks like a great time! I can find a running car for $500.00 bucks. I buy a roll cage for $300.00....I put in seat belts for $70.00 I also spent a few hundred more dollars to get it running well and pay for misc. stuff...not to mention the $300.00 I spent on a helmet, $300.00 on a firesuit and another 100 greenbacks for gloves, horsecollar and mabey shoes. I do all the work myself and save countless $$$$$ Now I fuel up the tow vehicle, pay my admission and then car registration..So lets see here...I got mabey $1600 total "invested" in my ride and some Jacka$$ stuffs me into...insert line....another car, wall, spins me, tow truck....etc etc...And It really amps me up to build another ride and do it all over again!!!! only to have another Ja$$ do it at another race????? Seriously...I really like the Enduro "concept" but get a grip on reality...it is not cheap to build a disposable car..and the whole sermen about black flagging rough driving blah blah is a bunch of crap. There are clearly two paths of thought here..mabey more...Joe Blow wants to endure the race; make it to the end.....and then there are the chosen few...."I'm gonna wreck everything that I can or can't pass". The latter needs to stay at the figure eight track and stop watching the SPEED channel when the truck's towing the trailer are racing and collecting each other...

  5. #20
    EPAEnduros.Com
    Mystic I hear ya and feel your pain.

    Please allow me to explain who I am for those who don't know. My name is Jim Evans Jr, I hail from a small town about 10 miles from Big Diamond Raceway who holds their own form of enduro racing. This is where I actually watched my first enduro race in September of last year (2007). Prior to this my original contact with enduro racing was when Penn National Speedway held enduro events. I read about what they were all about through their advertising description and said to myself "I'm sooooooooo not wasting my money watching a glorified demolition derby as cars try to go around in circles". Unfortunately for me though, what Penn National Speedway ran was the "pure form" of enduro racing and what NEETS tries their best to emulate. Not exactly though. Before you get confused, my misconception of what I read as to what an enduro race was all about through the description wasn't what Penn National was running because "Pure Enduro Racing" isn't about demolition derbies.

    Continuing who I am: I'm the founder and webmaster of the EPA Enduros website (located at www.epaenduros.com - as my screen name here says). The purpose of my website is to promote ALL FORMS of enduro racing regardless of the rules so the turnout in the grandstands becomes something you racers deserve. Since my first enduro event attended was just over a year ago, I'm going to openly admit I'm a novice when it comes to everything about enduro racing and I'm learning more and more after every event I go to. One of the greatest issues I encountered this season was when I got involved in helping Joe Cutri and the NEETS group from suggesting a track for them to check out to see if they could run it, to helping to promote the show, to writing up the article for them for their website (and mine) after the show was concluded, to having to humbly apologize for my ignorance when Joe and I batted heads.

    Do I agree with everything NEETS stands for? No. Joe & I have discussions all the time about things and he knows full well where I stand both personally and professionally. Am I willing to criticize NEETS for what they do? Constructively maybe, but professionally I have a very firm stance. We live in America which (so far unless a certain somebody gets elected president and we turn into the Unbearable Socialistic Anarchy), and one of the greatest things about the America I was born in is everybody has the freedom to run things as they see fit. On the same note, we as Americans have the same freedoms to CHOOSE where we want to race our cars/trucks. Yes, you've pretty much (unless you get very lucky or know somebody), nailed the cost of building a car. Now that your car is built, you have a choice as to where to race it. If you feel the NEETS program is too rough for you, or you don't feel the rules aren't something you want to risk your car's well being racing under, guess what... you have the right to not race. Nobody's twisting your arm, nobody's holding a gun to your head either.

    These guys are a great group of guys *cough* and gals... from Joe himself, to the officials, to the individual drivers, to the crew members and it's rubbing off onto the track employees when NEETS uses their track too. The pits, during a NEETS show, is like a big (alcohol free) party!!! If you have issues on the track and have to pit, chances are you won't be hurting for any help because the neighbors you pitted next to's crew will be racing back to your area along side your crew.

    In closing (and I seriously apologize for getting long winded again), I don't agree with this set of rules but never the less I promote these guys as much as I do my home track of Big Diamond Raceway, Mountain Speedway and New Egypt Speedway because the environment in the pits is all about the enduro "family". Only rather then the feuding cousins type family, these guys are all for having fun and the safety of their competitors and friends and they prove that both on the track and in the pits. You're going to have some numbskulls who, like me originally, are going to ram rod you thinking they're running in a circular demo derby but these drivers are highly in the minority and will learn (as I have learned).

    Bottom line... the choice is yours my friend.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    2,610
    Quote Originally Posted by EPAEnduros.Com View Post

    Do I agree with everything NEETS stands for? No. Joe & I have discussions all the time about things and he knows full well where I stand both personally and professionally. Am I willing to criticize NEETS for what they do? Constructively maybe, but professionally I have a very firm stance. We live in America which (so far unless a certain somebody gets elected president and we turn into the Unbearable Socialistic Anarchy), and one of the greatest things about the America I was born in is everybody has the freedom to run things as they see fit. On the same note, we as Americans have the same freedoms to CHOOSE where we want to race our cars/trucks. Yes, you've pretty much (unless you get very lucky or know somebody), nailed the cost of building a car. Now that your car is built, you have a choice as to where to race it. If you feel the NEETS program is too rough for you, or you don't feel the rules aren't something you want to risk your car's well being racing under, guess what... you have the right to not race. Nobody's twisting your arm, nobody's holding a gun to your head either.

    These guys are a great group of guys *cough* and gals... from Joe himself, to the officials, to the individual drivers, to the crew members and it's rubbing off onto the track employees when NEETS uses their track too. The pits, during a NEETS show, is like a big (alcohol free) party!!! If you have issues on the track and have to pit, chances are you won't be hurting for any help because the neighbors you pitted next to's crew will be racing back to your area along side your crew.

    In closing (and I seriously apologize for getting long winded again), I don't agree with this set of rules but never the less I promote these guys as much as I do my home track of Big Diamond Raceway, Mountain Speedway and New Egypt Speedway because the environment in the pits is all about the enduro "family". Only rather then the feuding cousins type family, these guys are all for having fun and the safety of their competitors and friends and they prove that both on the track and in the pits. You're going to have some numbskulls who, like me originally, are going to ram rod you thinking they're running in a circular demo derby but these drivers are highly in the minority and will learn (as I have learned).

    Bottom line... the choice is yours my friend.
    I'm Joe Cutri...and I approve this message.

    ________Joe the Photo Guy
    {_NEETS_}_____________www.neetsracing.com
    Co-Promoter____________Email: joe@neetsracing.com
    Webmaster_____________Cell#: 267-767-4923
    Photographer ___________Nextel: 168*153450*1

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    314

    I agree

    After all is said and done, I have to say I agree with Joe,NEETs and their decision to leave "dead" "broken cars on the track. That is what ENDURO'S are about!!!!!!!!!!! To ENDURE..... Drive smart,safe,clean and most of all finish!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah some should be moved out of the groove ect.
    Not everyone will always agree with officials decisions, but thats what officials are for. to make rules,decisions and follow them!!!!!!!!!! period!!!!!
    Yeah you all know Joe and Erin are friends of ours, and my son Eric was driving their truck. and when it broke it was left on the track. bad place well I think so and I'm sure some other people do too, but like Joe said in fairness to all "HIS" truck was left on the track!!!!!!!!! in neutral with wheels turned toward infield (hey remember that one,it might help you some day!!!!!) unfortunately "Little Dude" was forced into the back of it and ended up wrecking his car too....
    They are also friends of ours,and we will help them find and build a new car for the next race. Isn't that what friends are for. after all I am the one who got them "hooked on enduro's" in the first place.
    Thank you NEETS for making rules,decisions and sticking to them.......... no matter who you are,or who's car,truck someone is racing......... in fairness to all !!!!!!!!!!!:cheers
    MADDAWG
    417-12

  8. #23
    mystic1582

    24 hourz

    Funny thing...there's this race they call the 24 hours of Le Mans....They call it an endurance race of all things...and have done so since 1923..and in all the years of racing they have never left a dead player on the track....what a concept!

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    314

    Exclamation another thing

    after reading the other posts , Now I have some more to say !!!!!!!!! first off, yes all safety vehicles and tow trucks and their personell should be behind barriers period!!!
    second, leaving "dead or broken" cars in PARK is absolutely STUPID !!!!!!!!!!!
    we all saw how hard the impact was when Kurt hit the 17dd truck -----the truck rolled toward the infield and stopped when it rolled into a barrier. and guess what there was a tow truck behind that barrier exactly where it belonged. No one was harmed or hurt in anyway!!!!!!!!!!!
    Now imagine if that truck was in park----------the impact would have been much harder and "little Dude ' probably would have been hurt. All in all we are all glad that nobody was hurt in this particular senario!!!

    Now instead of *****ing and bringing out all the negatives we need to all work together and come up with POSITIVE SOLUTIONS that will make the sport that we all love smarter and safer for everyone


    thanx for caring
    Eric "lil maddawg" Wink
    17dd- 21
    Last edited by Maddawg; 10-20-2008 at 10:40 PM.

  10. #25
    EPAEnduros.Com
    To clear things up a little bit, I didn't suggest putting the vehicles in park, I said about putting the vehicles in gear... big difference. Putting vehicles in park basicaly is like putting a 4000lb metal baracade in the middle of the track which is stupid. Putting vehicles in drive or in say 3rd gear for manual transmission vehicles does almost the same thing as putting them in neutral without the free roll in the cases when hit as hard as Kurt's car hit Joe's truck. I wasn't the one complaining about this... I was merely making a suggestion to try to better things for the future. Somebody else included using "park" with my suggestion thus creating the confusion I think.

    I don't pretend to be perfect nor do I pretend to think I'm right about anything. I see what NEETS is trying to do with their shows and 90% of their shows are outstandingly run (including the concept of dead vehicles on the track). However their are flaws to the system and with the hopes of straightening out some of these flaws, I merely suggest things which may help. Let's face it Maddog & Lil Maddog, in a perfect world we'd have 120 cars on a 1/3 mile high bank oval and nobody'd be in a hurry to go anywhere which is where the perfect scenereo would be for leaving dead cars on the track. Unfortunately though with only 30 or 40 cars, dead cars become high speed obsticles regardless if left in neutral, park or gear which isn't the perfect scenereo regardless how you look at it. The great thing about 80% or more of the drivers who race (anywhere), you guys are conscience of this situation and are willing to give and take with your competitors as they also give and take and this is what makes Enduro class racing (regardless of the track or the rules) the best form of racing anywhere.
    Last edited by EPAEnduros.Com; 10-20-2008 at 11:03 PM.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    2,610
    I will admit I am a little holey...not holy... We are perfecting this series to be what everyone would hope to expect or at least expect us to be. Erin and I were dropped into the fire to take on this role and it will take time and experience before the holes are filled in correctly.

    Anyone who has raced with NEETS since we took over will notice how we have evolved and things have changed...it can only get better, so please, someone, anyone...everyone!!! RAISE THE HEAT UP SO WE CAN KEEP GETTIN' BETTER!!!!

    Thanks everyone!
    ________Joe the Photo Guy
    {_NEETS_}_____________www.neetsracing.com
    Co-Promoter____________Email: joe@neetsracing.com
    Webmaster_____________Cell#: 267-767-4923
    Photographer ___________Nextel: 168*153450*1

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    563
    So who won and where are the results???

  13. #28
    EPAEnduros.Com
    Joe posted the results in the thread called "Frankenduro results" or you can click on this link to go there: http://www.racerhub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16572

    Duane Eidem won the big car (6/8 cylinder), and Dave Bentley Jr won the small car.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    82
    I had a blast this Sunday at grandview, Most fun I had in a while. After my crash I was dazed and confused but not mad my truck was left on the track, I understood the rules, That all cars facing the right direction and out of high speed areas will be left on the track. I just think the black flag should have been used a little more.
    Last edited by CJfilms; 10-21-2008 at 08:41 PM.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    314

    OH Yeah !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I just want say "I had a franken-good time" probably one of the most fun enduro's I have been in a long time !!!!!!!!! Keep up the good work and I can't wait till next years schedule is finalized were all in for some really cool surprizes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Maddawg
    417-12

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