Entertain an idea...

[outlaw13]

When we (Phil, Pat, Mike myself & others) ran @ the Grove we started with 70+ cars, the track is only 5 cars wide and on several occasions I was out of tear-offs (20) by lap 20 of a 200 lap race. Most of the drivers there were pretty patient (there were a few who weren't and Butch did not stand for it = 5 laps in the pits). You Obeyed the Rules, Raced Clean or you GOT PARKED, Period. Butch"s Rules Enforcement (from engine parts to speeding in the pits) made that race the Premiere Event of Enduro Racing!

As for the cars in the groove, Butch "Red" flagged the race, the wrecker or 4x4 pusher, pushed your car to the inside rail, most of the time, down toward the middle of the straight (or in the pit if you were close to the entrance)and the driver got out so it was quick and out of the way and racing resumed very quickly. On a few occasions 1or2 of my other cars were shoved to the wall and survived without incident.

Now for tires, running "Used" (worn, hard, heat cycled tires without the max tread) in the dirt or worse yet in the mud just does NOT work very well. This I learned from a few of your front running drivers when I first started as an owner in '99 @ Bridgeport (our first race there was Embarrassing!). 3 races on a set of tires (15-20 lap races) makes a Huge Difference. Ask them guys, they will tell you because they used to be (I'm they still are) all about racing hard and clean with another competitive driver. It is More Fun that way!

Just some observations.
Rules Enforcement (or the lack of or change it to fit that day or team) was the reason I left NEETS years ago. I'm Glad to see it is Different Now and Wish I could be back Supporting It Again.
Jim

[EnduroFromDE]

Jim, not to argue ur points, but Grandview n Bridgeport services are alot different. I went through close to 3 races last year with the same tire on the r/f of my car at GV. I still have tread on it, its being used as a rear tire now. All my tires are tires that are being thrown away at the dealership I work at. I go picking through everyonce in awhile to find the size im running. They are not brand new, they are used tires anywhere from 1000 to 5000 miles on them. BP 5/8 miles track can chew up some tires. I used to run 4 cyl there and I went a half a year on the same tires on the 1/4 mile track. I took those same tires on the 5/8 miles and they needed replacing after one night of racing. (18 laps). I like the idea of how they did it back then too. But when NEETS ran at Mountain there was a steady 70-100 cars in both division every race for about 2 years. Cars where not moved. I know that mountain is paved and GV is dirt but there were still times when a car will be sitting there for 85 laps and here comes a car and slams into it. After about 50 laps a GV(normally) that track seems like its paved...alittle bumpy but u can dig into the turns and drive it like its asphalt. I kinda liked having a race to where it was about car control more then speed. The last 20 laps of that race I littlerycouldnt see a thing. I ran out of tearoffs and i didnt come prepared with a rag. I had to flip my visor up cuz my gloves where smearing the mud, not wiping it. My glasses then begain to get muddy but they were wiping off but getting fogged up on the inside where i couldnt reach the,. So i was driving with my head back looking below my glasses but over the bottom of my helmet. I was eating so much mud, and i was getting hit in the eye with water n mud. I was still laughing and having fun in the car, still sliding around cars barly able to see. Itll get boring if every race was the same. Go out, race for XXX amount of laps and come back in. Its enduro, you have to Enduro the different elements like everyone else. Weather thats dead cars, rain, or watever.

[McLovein]

The racing around dead cars can be fun but anyone that has had a car wrecked by a dead car on the track or has had there car wrecked by sitting on the track car see the problem.You need to ask your self if my car gets wrecked in the race from hitting a dead car like the #75 car did in the v8's can I fix it in time for the next race and do I have the money to fix it. Try to find a car for 50 to 100 dollars any more that would make it 50 laps let alone 100 or 150 it's not gonna happen. If you want to still be enduro than make the ruels enduro. Cars on the track, 200 laps or 2hrs. witch ever comes first tires with 2-3 thousands on them no K&N filters no race springs all stock nothing else. NEETS is half enduro and half stock car racing people need to make up there minds what and how it's run. Then if they decided that it is a true enduro no one can ***** because you sined up for it.

[CJfilms]

Then if they decided that it is a true enduro no one can ***** because you signed up for it.

Good point.... Know what you are getting into......NEETS is enduro racing...

Also....love the name!!!

[racerroy]

I don't think the dead cars have been all that bad so far, but the track is definatly an issue "it sucks" ! My vote is pull the cars!

[outlaw13]

I don't understand what services means.
I never ran front drive cars, but like I said, used, especially performance tires, don't work as well as new/near new, soft M/S tires with a tread that evacuates easily and don't smooth over. That is why snow & truck tires were always outlawed. Good tires will "drive" circles through the mud/dirt instead of "doing" circles in it.

If your going to throw a red to get a driver out of a car that is in a dangerous spot, then that car is also a danger to other drivers still on the track. It's an enduro, but like everyone is saying, cars are harder to find and the costs are going through the roof. Cars being wrecked unnesessarily and drivers having to sit out the rest of the season because of $$$, that isn't good for the Series either. It's an Officials call that will help drivers Enjoy the race even more.

I've been through the mud being everywhere and not being able to see (into turn 3 @ the Grove Wide Open) and in the Pouring Rain (NEETS Tioga)in a Dirt car on asphalt and No Windshield. Talk about foggy glasses and shield. It's a challenge but you learn how to overcome it for the next race.

Steve, I raced Mountain in the original series and was one of the group that talked the promoter(of the time) to go to "stock" cars which resulted in the "Junk Car Series". Remember the track being watered down with Fabric Softener in the water, "..to make it more interesting...".

K&N Filter in the original filter box is ok, but a 350 in a metric car is not.
200 laps or 2 hours is awesome.

[MANIAC]

look leave the dead cars where they die. the fans love watching the wrecks,it makes it more challenging and thats going to make the race that much longer if they move them. as for fixing your car for the next race it is what it is. we have on average a month to fix them. i would even like to see two or three dead cars placed on the track before we take the green. just like flumingtion use to do. its not suppose to be a easy race. as for the last race. yes the mud sucked but that was the hole challenge.it sucked that Howie hit that parked car.hes my team mate and i feel i had a little something to do with that i blocked up the frontstrech because my car couldn't turn left all the way and i didn't want to get stuck in the mud at the bottom. there are so many things that can go wrong. the one who wins the race had the best luck that day. SO KEEP IT INTERESTING...

[EnduroFromDE]

I ment surfaces...sorry...what im saying is you can compare track to track as far as tire wear...I never EVER ran new tires at Grandview and hardly have a problem with grip...

[MANIAC]

if u want your car moved out of the grove how much is it worth to u. use the money u make off it to pay farther back or draw a number and who ever started in that spot gets there entry paid for the next race. just giving some ideas . i would leave my car where it dies. its wrong to move them. u don't go to one of these races to see cars go 100 to 150 laps with out a good wreck. that would be boring.

[outlaw13]

To Enduro Drivers, a 200 lap "Enduro" is like driving in the Daytona 500. They don't want to destroy their cars, they want to Endure a 100 or 200 lap race and be the Winner. That is challenging enough. It is an incredible feeling to run door handle to door handle with more than 10 cars, every single lap, for the win or to at least finish Every Lap.

If you look at the history of these races, they didn't move cars mostly because there were Too Many Cars and there was not enough time. Flemmington was starting 200 cars (a friend drove in them) and I watched, just before it closed, at least 125 cars. I also watched some Violent Wrecks there with cars left in the groove. JFK in Phila. also. Since there aren't that many cars and it could be a judgement call on the officials to quickly push a car out of the groove (not on a tow truck) and resume, it should be considered.

It doesn't sound like everyone wants the track completely cleared, but they want to watch a safe endurance "race", not good cars/drivers wadded up on a dead "obstacle" in the middle of the track.
Leave that to the figure 8s and the demos.

[MANIAC]

To Enduro Drivers, a 200 lap "Enduro" is like driving in the Daytona 500. They don't want to destroy their cars, they want to Endure a 100 or 200 lap race and be the Winner. That is challenging enough. It is an incredible feeling to run door handle to door handle with more than 10 cars, every single lap, for the win or to at least finish Every Lap.

If you look at the history of these races, they didn't move cars mostly because there were Too Many Cars and there was not enough time. Flemmington was starting 200 cars (a friend drove in them) and I watched, just before it closed, at least 125 cars. I also watched some Violent Wrecks there with cars left in the groove. JFK in Phila. also. Since there aren't that many cars and it could be a judgement call on the officials to quickly push a car out of the groove (not on a tow truck) and resume, it should be considered.

It doesn't sound like everyone wants the track completely cleared, but they want to watch a safe endurance "race", not good cars/drivers wadded up on a dead "obstacle" in the middle of the track.
Leave that to the figure 8s and the demos.

ITS NOT DAYTONA WE DON'T PASS DEAD CARS AT 200+ IF YOU ARE SCARED OF IT MAYBE IT S NOT THE SPORT FOR U.. DEMOS-FIG-8-ENDURO- WHATS YOUR POINT. I'm not there to wreck my car. WHAT HAPPENS OUT THERE "IT IS WHAT IT IS" I DO IT BECAUSE ITS FUN AND I LOVE THE SPORT... THE ONLY TIME A CAR NEEDS TO BE MOVED IF IT LEAKING GAS OR THE TRACK IS TOTALLY BLOCKED AND I MEAN TOTALLY BLOCKED. I'M NOT TRYING TO PICK ON U SO DON'T GET ME WRONG JUST GIVE U A BIGGER TAKE ON WHAT A ENDURO IS.

[mcstockcar]

If you chose to have your car removed from the track, it should be allowed. Whos gonna fix your dead car when it gets hit by another racer?....surely not anyone else but you." Live to race another day"
As for the 350 in a metric GM....y not? Its a small block. Its GM. Some of those 305s run up there with those 350s
Im running a 400 and those 350s walk by me like im standing still.

[mcstockcar]

Quote-"the fans love watching the wrecks"
I dont see the fans coming over to fix those wrecked cars for the next race.
Parts and money dont grow on trees!

[MANIAC]

If you chose to have your car removed from the track, it should be allowed. Whos gonna fix your dead car when it gets hit by another racer?....surely not anyone else but you." Live to race another day"
As for the 350 in a metric GM....y not? Its a small block. Its GM. Some of those 305s run up there with those 350s
Im running a 400 and those 350s walk by me like im standing still.

u mean all the money you spent on that car its not fast. SHOCKER it was fast in 09 when it ran a race or two. you whine more than the guy you bought it from. thats it joe give us back our rear view mirror i got a lot pacifiers to hand out need a place to hang them all. it wont get wrecked if u leave it on the trailer. as for your motor you need to work on that or do u want all of us to slow down and weight for u to catch up?

[mcstockcar]

You sure do like to stir the pot dont you??
You"ll make a lot of enemys quick with talk like that!
You some how know HOW much I spent on my car...thats facinating. You should be a fortune teller. If I spent a ton of money on my car or motor I might be running up front.