88 v 11

[uticamike]

Just read on Speed51 that there was some kind of altercation between Andy Seuss and LW Miller resulting in both being put on probation. LW's Crew Chief

and a crew member were also fined and received probation. I'm sure it was some leftover stuff from the wall job Andy got from LW at Cararway earlier

this year. Anybody got the skinny on this?

[Racer1_NC]

http://www.speed51.com/2012_Stories/...raway_7_9.html

LW knocked Seuss sideways coming out of 2.....LW went in the wall in 3....both went off on the hook.

[Brian Hawks]

This entire "wall job" earlier at Caraway is just opinion based. To me it looked like hard racing. Maybe LW ran him up the track and Andy over corrected. The talk was LW was trying to hurt LW and such.. Now the role is reversed and it's just OK?

Call a spade a spade people, they both race with aggression. Both don't mind rubbing on guys. Andy spun smoeone out at Sobo and collected a few good guys and got into Jason Myers at Caraway this weekend. He's not innocent and has been on the hook a few times just this season. If ya don't like LW, that's cool. But call it fair.

Glad NASCAR stepped up now, maybe they will both chill and go racing. Both are in top notch equipment and can put on a show without doing what they are doing.

[redliner]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Andy Seuss admits when he makes an error and apologizes when that error causes a problem on the race track. L. W. Miller just blames the other driver(s). At Ace in 2008, Miller drove into Seuss' car so hard he lifted the back of Seuss' car off the track and spun Seuss crosswise in front of the field. "I clipped him with the bumper on his left rear. It turned him around," was Miller's explanation. This was on the first lap of the race! Result - wrecked race car for Riggs Racing. At Loudon in 2010, the caution flag was waved on lap80 when Miller spun in turn one. Miller recovered, drove past the line of cars, and drove over the left side of Seuss' car. The caution was still out as the field was being reset. "I was passing the #70 car on the outside and he pretty much just drove right over me. He put me up as high as he could until I got sideways and then he hit me in the left front. When he did, that spun me out," was Miller's explanation. Result - penalty for Miller, damaged left front for Seuss. At this year's opening race at Caraway, Miller is running behind Seuss after a restart, they make contact, and Seuss hits the wall - hard. "We touched. It wasn’t much of a touch... All I know is that it took a tiny little touch and the next thing I knew he hit the wall," was Miller's explanation. Result - another destroyed race car - diamond-shaped by 3" and a lucky driver who could walk away. My opinion about the #11 and the #88 hostility and the July 6th wreck at Caraway - it was about time that the shoe was on the other foot.

[Brian Hawks]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Andy Seuss admits when he makes an error and apologizes when that error causes a problem on the race track. L. W. Miller just blames the other driver(s). At Ace in 2008, Miller drove into Seuss' car so hard he lifted the back of Seuss' car off the track and spun Seuss crosswise in front of the field. "I clipped him with the bumper on his left rear. It turned him around," was Miller's explanation. This was on the first lap of the race! Result - wrecked race car for Riggs Racing. At Loudon in 2010, the caution flag was waved on lap80 when Miller spun in turn one. Miller recovered, drove past the line of cars, and drove over the left side of Seuss' car. The caution was still out as the field was being reset. "I was passing the #70 car on the outside and he pretty much just drove right over me. He put me up as high as he could until I got sideways and then he hit me in the left front. When he did, that spun me out," was Miller's explanation. Result - penalty for Miller, damaged left front for Seuss. At this year's opening race at Caraway, Miller is running behind Seuss after a restart, they make contact, and Seuss hits the wall - hard. "We touched. It wasn’t much of a touch... All I know is that it took a tiny little touch and the next thing I knew he hit the wall," was Miller's explanation. Result - another destroyed race car - diamond-shaped by 3" and a lucky driver who could walk away. My opinion about the #11 and the #88 hostility and the July 6th wreck at Caraway - it was about time that the shoe was on the other foot.

Everyone has an opinion. I don't remember the Ace incident clear enough to comment, but NHMS in 2010.. Andy had driven him up the track several time and I believe spun him for LW to run into the side of him. The Caraway incident was side by side racing.. The video doesn't show him turn right no matter how someone trys to say they see that. It has hard racing. Fact is, Andy drives like LW. But it isn't ok for LW to do it... but it is for Andy. That's the simple thing I'm trying to explain that drives me insane with the subject.

[Groundpounder]

Brian, Andy doesn't drive anything like LW. LW was driving like a complete jackass long before Andy ever sat in a modified, and it seems like he always will. I wasn't at this last race at Caraway and have no idea what happened, but if Andy did finally give LW back some of the crap he's been taking from him for years, I say it's about damn time!

[Brian Hawks]

Brian, Andy doesn't drive anything like LW. LW was driving like a complete jackass long before Andy ever sat in a modified, and it seems like he always will. I wasn't at this last race at Caraway and have no idea what happened, but if Andy did finally give LW back some of the crap he's been taking from him for years, I say it's about damn time!

Merly your opinion. Some people say Jimmy Blewett and Ted Christopher drive like that also.. but they are all winning races.

[uticamike]

Merly your opinion. Some people say Jimmy Blewett and Ted Christopher drive like that also.. but they are all winning races.

So...the end justifies the means? Maybe in your world. No one I know that has been around the Modified scene for any time would suggest

Andy Seuss drives anything like L.W. ( loaded weapon) Miller. Brian there is a racing world outside of B/G. ( forget Wall too).

[Brian Hawks]

So...the end justifies the means? Maybe in your world. No one I know that has been around the Modified scene for any time would suggest

Andy Seuss drives anything like L.W. ( loaded weapon) Miller. Brian there is a racing world outside of B/G. ( forget Wall too).

Again, opinion. And this time you are incorrect again. 1. It's Lethal Weapon. 2. Just because I live near Bowman Gray, I don't consider it racing. It's merly entertainment.

Reality is, You think I'm gonna sugar coat what I've seen on the race track and I'm not going to. LW drives aggressive I agree. Maybe Andy isn't AS BAD as LW is, but he isn't innocent.

I could go on and be nasty about the subject (like everyone else does about LW) but I chose not to. I'm not saying Andy is a bad driver, but one driver can drive like that and get most popular driver, someone else can (maybe because he has a little $$ now) and everyone talks trash.

[Groundpounder]

Again, opinion. And this time you are incorrect again. 1. It's Lethal Weapon. 2. Just because I live near Bowman Gray, I don't consider it racing. It's merly entertainment.

Reality is, You think I'm gonna sugar coat what I've seen on the race track and I'm not going to. LW drives aggressive I agree. Maybe Andy isn't AS BAD as LW is, but he isn't innocent.

I could go on and be nasty about the subject (like everyone else does about LW) but I chose not to. I'm not saying Andy is a bad driver, but one driver can drive like that and get most popular driver, someone else can (maybe because he has a little $$ now) and everyone talks trash.

Gee, don't you think there might be a reason that "everyone else" has that opinion about LW?

[Brian Hawks]

Gee, don't you think there might be a reason that "everyone else" has that opinion about LW?

LW has plenty of fans and people who like his driving style.

I did forget we are on the website where everyone just constantly complains 24/7 about everything. Have a good day!

BTW: "Everyone else" may want to look at the point standings.. Speaks for itself.

[Steve in NC]

BTW: "Everyone else" may want to look at the point standings.. Speaks for itself.

I have spoken to LW on many occasion and personally like him. We always end up talking about hunting deer and racing. But his on track record can NOT be justified by points standings and number of championships alone. In other words he can take everyone out of the race and "win" and you say, cool he is the points champion hurray? I don't think so. That end does NOT justify the means. That is not opinion.

Yes you are right in that I'm disappointed what Andy did at Caraway. I was there and watched it unfold with my own eyes. Was watching that battle with LW boxed in on the inside with I beleive McKennedy on the outside of LW both trying to get around Seuss who was fighting a loose racecar. LW was boxed in and Andy was merely fighting to keep his head above water and LW was using his bumper quite regularly. Bottom line is that NASCAR failed to do anything about this situation leading up to it to where a competitior had to lower his standards to say "I've had enough, and put the wall job on LW".

You only have to look back a couple of years where 2 brothers were battling hard at Thomson and got together... one didn't walk away. Now I don't buy for a second that the other brother intentionally did anything. It was an accidient. But the angle at which LW hit the wall on the left side was not good. Same can be said for the wall hits that Seuss has taken also in recent years. The ends does NOT justify the means when a little bump turns into a tragic accident. When will the next "one" happen... maybe the next time LW puts the bumper to someone or divebombs someone and jumps to curbing in turn 1 at Caraway like he has done many times. And that applies to any driver and car. i'm not jsut picking on LW alone.

Modifieds are too fast and with no softwalls or foam on most of the shorttracks they compete at to keep hitting the wall and having everyone walk away. Its only a matter of time before someone has to deal with, "boy, I wish I could take that hit back. He didn't deserve to die. I only wanted to rattle his cage"

We just inducted Richie into the HOF.... He is the king of the modifieds and he owns the most modified championships and he didn't drive like a Neandethal over many years of competition across many tracks and states. And his track record stands on very solid ground.

So do you "have" to put the bumper to someone to call it racing? The answer is no. Does the modern day NASCAR fan like the WWE enviroment that NASCAR has embraced in the last couple of years across it top divisions on down to lcoal level.... yes, according to comments from people like Bruton Smith who is going to redo Bristol so there are more accidents like it "use to be". Makes me sick.

And NASCAR is wondering why it is loosing its dyed-in-the-wool fan base and getting these rainy day yuppies for the fan base that just aren't as loyal as the "old school" race fans were because of the the "win at any cost" mentality that they embrace.
Me personally I like race drivers with class.... Richie Evans, Bobby Santos III, Chris Perley, Russ Wood, Terry Labonte, Harry Gant, Mark Martin. Don't tell me these guys don't know how to drive a racecar just because they don't regularly put the bumper to someone and divebomb the corner entry. And they still have respect from their fellow competitors when they climbed out of their cars regardless if they won or finished last after many years of competition.

[Brian Hawks]

I have spoken to LW on many occasion and personally like him. We always end up talking about hunting deer and racing. But his on track record can NOT be justified by points standings and number of championships alone. In other words he can take everyone out of the race and "win" and you say, cool he is the points champion hurray? I don't think so. That end does NOT justify the means. That is not opinion.

Yes you are right in that I'm disappointed what Andy did at Caraway. I was there and watched it unfold with my own eyes. Was watching that battle with LW boxed in on the inside with I beleive McKennedy on the outside of LW both trying to get around Seuss who was fighting a loose racecar. LW was boxed in and Andy was merely fighting to keep his head above water and LW was using his bumper quite regularly. Bottom line is that NASCAR failed to do anything about this situation leading up to it to where a competitior had to lower his standards to say "I've had enough, and put the wall job on LW".

You only have to look back a couple of years where 2 brothers were battling hard at Thomson and got together... one didn't walk away. Now I don't buy for a second that the other brother intentionally did anything. It was an accidient. But the angle at which LW hit the wall on the left side was not good. Same can be said for the wall hits that Seuss has taken also in recent years. The ends does NOT justify the means when a little bump turns into a tragic accident. When will the next "one" happen... maybe the next time LW puts the bumper to someone or divebombs someone and jumps to curbing in turn 1 at Caraway like he has done many times. And that applies to any driver and car. i'm not jsut picking on LW alone.

Modifieds are too fast and with no softwalls or foam on most of the shorttracks they compete at to keep hitting the wall and having everyone walk away. Its only a matter of time before someone has to deal with, "boy, I wish I could take that hit back. He didn't deserve to die. I only wanted to rattle his cage"

We just inducted Richie into the HOF.... He is the king of the modifieds and he owns the most modified championships and he didn't drive like a Neandethal over many years of competition across many tracks and states. And his track record stands on very solid ground.

So do you "have" to put the bumper to someone to call it racing? The answer is no. Does the modern day NASCAR fan like the WWE enviroment that NASCAR has embraced in the last couple of years across it top divisions on down to lcoal level.... yes, according to comments from people like Bruton Smith who is going to redo Bristol so there are more accidents like it "use to be". Makes me sick.

And NASCAR is wondering why it is loosing its dyed-in-the-wool fan base and getting these rainy day yuppies for the fan base that just aren't as loyal as the "old school" race fans were because of the the "win at any cost" mentality that they embrace.
Me personally I like race drivers with class.... Richie Evans, Bobby Santos III, Chris Perley, Russ Wood, Terry Labonte, Harry Gant, Mark Martin. Don't tell me these guys don't know how to drive a racecar just because they don't regularly put the bumper to someone and divebomb the corner entry. And they still have respect from their fellow competitors when they climbed out of their cars regardless if they won or finished last after many years of competition.

I agree with you 100 % on all of this. And I'm glad someone else put it out there instead of me.

When LW and Suess got together earlier in the year everyhone was talking about how Suess could have been hurt. I agree, it was a hard hit. It sure didn't look intential to me, accidents do happen.. the 11 hooked right... not sure the 88 could have even tried to do that. LW was a bad person, trying to hurt someone ect. ect...

My point is.. it was on purpose at Caraway this time. He tried to hurt LW and his car... and no one has come on here bashing Andy like they did LW. If it's wrong for one.. it's wrong for all.. bottom line. I'm sad it took NASCAR this long to say something. Next time they have contact on the track sit them out a race and make an example out of them. Racing isn't cheap and the crap they are pulling makes the division just look stupid.

Only point I've been trying to make is what's good for one, is good for all. Andy is just as low as LW for what he did. You HAVE to be the better person and let NASCAR do their job (Which I may add they are doing a VERY poor job at)

[uticamike]

I agree with you 100 % on all of this. And I'm glad someone else put it out there instead of me.

When LW and Suess got together earlier in the year everyhone was talking about how Suess could have been hurt. I agree, it was a hard hit. It sure didn't look intential to me, accidents do happen.. the 11 hooked right... not sure the 88 could have even tried to do that. LW was a bad person, trying to hurt someone ect. ect...

My point is.. it was on purpose at Caraway this time. He tried to hurt LW and his car... and no one has come on here bashing Andy like they did LW. If it's wrong for one.. it's wrong for all.. bottom line. I'm sad it took NASCAR this long to say something. Next time they have contact on the track sit them out a race and make an example out of them. Racing isn't cheap and the crap they are pulling makes the division just look stupid.

Only point I've been trying to make is what's good for one, is good for all. Andy is just as low as LW for what he did. You HAVE to be the better person and let NASCAR do their job (Which I may add they are doing a VERY poor job at)

If NASCAR was doing a good job, the likes of LW, "Showtime" , Silk and few others wouldn't be in a position to be accused of walling guys like Andy

Seuss and others. How much crap are you going "eat" before you take action in your own hands? It's pretty easy from the cheap seats ain't it Brian?

[NC Mudcat]

......He tried to hurt LW......

BS! I don't believe that for one minute. Tried to hurt his car? Maybe. Tried to hurt the driver? Get real.